LaVols and Holly: Local Dissatisfaction Growing (merged thread)

[eebmg]

Nice to see the TN loosing streak in color. Massey has TN as #39 and only a 7pt favorite over AK at home.

Probably should start a Poll regarding who the BY wants to win ND / TN ?

 

[Adesmar123]

I think it is best that VOL Nation critique her performance and not us. Just my thoughts.

Isn't that like having the committed run the asylum?

 

[Carnac]

Nice to see the TN loosing streak in color. Massey has TN as #39 and only a 7pt favorite over AK at home.

Probably should start a Poll regarding who the BY wants to win ND / TN ?

View attachment 38545

In that poll, you can also ask "which fan base hates UConn more”, ND or TN? They BOTH despise UConn.

 

[PGBully]

Not exactly. To begin with, even though I am by no means a UConn fan, you could have won even more championships and I wouldn't have been bothered. The only thing that bothered me - and I think turned off some fans - was that there were periods where it seemed like no-one could compete with UConn. Just compete. That was a turn-off, because it really felt like everyone was playing for 2nd place. That said, I always said the positive was it (should have) made other teams work harder, and perhaps it did. Remember, the last 2 seasons ended badly for UConn on last second shots.

I still think there are dominant programs, including UConn. Perhaps less than some years, and vulnerable, and not dominating by score - but UConn, Notre Dame, Baylor, Louisville, Oregon, Stanford, Mississippi State - these programs (and maybe NC State, as well) are dominating the sport this year.

I think we are the perfect example of y'all handing out a butt whipping and really motivated us to get closer to y'alls level. Now I never expected a 60 point swing in 12 months, and we'll still need to take that next step before I'd consider the two schools in the same dominant breath but we are at least in the conversation. And I know we had a great up and coming coach and some young solid ladies but I don't know that we ever get into that conversation sans the 60pt blowout. I'd still like to see us get a home and home scheduled or maybe meet in some December neutral site showcase.

But I agree any school that seriously wanted to take the next step should have appreciated the dominating run y'all have been on and used it as a guiding light. I mean if you're an up and coming men's program it's kinda hard to put a target on just one team and say that's where we wanna get if we wanna be the best with all the parity. But y'all made it easy as far as defining the goal of exactly of what the best of the best looked like.

Not here to kiss butt or anything but I dont believe we'd be near the program we are without the motivation y'all supplied. It all depends on whether a team can get up off the mat after that throttling. That's another reason I'd love to see the H&H. A lot of our girls and yalls may have come from different backgrounds but I think it'd be good for the ladies and the fans to get to experience each other's appreciation for quality wbb. The Hump seats 10,500 and it's been at or near capacity for a lot of our games but with the fans y'all would bring it would be standing room only with the fire marshal turning ppl away. It would be electric though and I'm crossing my fingers.

I've heard Vic's name mentioned with the UT job but I just don't see him leaving a program he built from the ground up, and honestly I believe we have passed them, not in legacy at all, that would be asinine, but as far as a present day competitive program, I think UT is looking up at us. The only other job I can even imagine him taking if he left would be to go home to aTm, and I think his competitive juices with what he has up and coming, I don't see that for a decade or so

 

[Plebe]

In advance of Tennessee's game vs. Arkansas today, here's a snippet from their loss at Alabama, with an interesting "exchange" between Holly and Rennia Davis as she's taken out of the game in the 4th quarter.



I guess I can see why some Tennessee fans are questioning Rennia's future as a Lady Vol.

 

[BigBird]

Now, the losing streak is 5, ahead of a date with the Flipping Irish. Rotsa ruck you LaVols.

 

[msf22b]

UTenn played a decent 2nd half and shot well
The loss was a heartbreaker
Maybe, more than that.

 

[JellyBean]

Man my heart goes out to Holly. She is in a no win situation dealing with the Lady Vols and some of the Vols fans and probably boosters. 5 game losing streak and all of that pressure.

 

[DefenseBB]

Crocodile tears from me....

 

[Kaizen]

Feel really sorry for LV fans ..

 

[mbr33ct]

At this point why would Holly still want to coach this program. As others have said, I'm sure she's a decent assistant coach and person but damn, walk away from all this. Swallow your pride and relinquish the reins to someone else...anyone at this point.

 

[Kaizen]

This is very bad timing for the women team... Tenn's men team just grabs #1 in AP ranking this morning.

 

[BigBird]

VolNation would have us believe that Holly is toast, the only question being how much longer they should wait. The clear consensus there is to use the axe immediately.

 

[Vowelguy]

At this point why would Holly still want to coach this program.

She's been part of that program for 40 years. Not easy to let go.

 

[Bayareahusky]

She's been part of that program for 40 years. Not easy to let go.

Agreed.... but you have to have talk with your people..... and you have to be honest with them....

I read an interview with Earl Weaver of the Orioles... and part of it explained how he approached Brooks Robinson who wanted desperately to keep playing at 3rd base..... while Earl told him why he was going to make a change and start Doug DeCinces

 

[RockyMTblue2]

At this point why would Holly still want to coach this program. As others have said, I'm sure she's a decent assistant coach and person but damn, walk away from all this. Swallow your pride and relinquish the reins to someone else...anyone at this point.

I can give you 675,000 reasons, plus perks and benies ... she likes the money, period.

 

[Carnac]

Man my heart goes out to Holly. She is in a no win situation dealing with the Lady Vols and some of the Vols fans and probably boosters. 5 game losing streak and all of that pressure.

The worse and most embarrassing part of that losing streak is that 4 of those losses are to UNRANKED teams that aren’t nearly as talented, but found a way to win. Go figure.

 

[Carnac]

VolNation would have us believe that Holly is toast, the only question being how much longer they should wait. The clear consensus there is to use the axe immediately.

How tolerant, understanding and enthusiastic will the fan base be if Holly returns next year?

 

[DefenseBB]

I say this with no snark or derision- Holly is a competitor, first and foremost, she also works very hard at her craft, is very driven to make the LV great again. The real issue is she simply does not have the skill set to correctly assess the situation on how to prepare for and coach games. She has never coached under anyone else to understand how to develop offense, fails at replicating Pat's defense and rebounding, and from what I know, all her assistants have never coached at a top tier program before coming to Tennessee, so while Sharrona Reeves is responsible for this great recruiting, none of the coaches are know for development or having been mentored in a winning program. Here's the coaching staff's pedigree (or lack thereof)
Dean Lockwood-15 years with LV, 6yrs. Saginaw Valley-Men, 1 yr. Cent Mich-Men, 5 yrs. Tenn-Men
Sharrona Reeves- 3 yrs. LV, played at Ala, 3 yrs. at Troy, 6 yrs. WV, 2 yrs. HC at LIU, 2 yrs. @MSU, 1 yr. HC at Cent Fla, 3 years not coaching.
Brigette Gordon-2nd yr. LV, played at Tenn, 7 yrs. Wichita St, 3 yrs. Ga St, 5 yrs. Stetson, 1 yr. WNBA regional scout.
This staff leads credence to my point that Holly can't even assess that her staff is not helping her deficiencies.

Tenn projects to finish 18-10 (7-8) and maybe 1-1 in the SEC tournament (according to Massey). That's 19-11 with a final Massey of 45ish and SoS of 45ish. Will that be enough to get them in? Maybe but most likely not. They would get an WNIT bid (which they would accept). I could see her having a great run in the WNIT, gaining experience for the young team.

Would Fulmer relieve her at that point? NO
However, he should demand a purging of the assistant coaches with ONLY Reeves who should be kept due to her coaching prowess. Does Holly have the skillset to hire quality assistants? I bet NO WAY as again, they are too married to the Pat Legacy or SEC legacy.

Just my humble opinion...advise in my errors in logic.

 

[Vowelguy]

Tenn projects to finish 18-10 (7-8) and maybe 1-1 in the SEC tournament (according to Massey). That's 19-11 with a final Massey of 45ish and SoS of 45ish. Will that be enough to get them in?

19-11 ? Almost certainly yes that team would be in the NCAAs.

 

[triaddukefan]

You know its bad when The Lady Vols losing streak is mentioned on NATIONAL SPORTS TALK RADIO

I was listening to Fox Sports Radio last night, and the Update Guy talked about the TN Men being ranked #1.... then mentioned that the Lady Vols lost to Arkansas... and that their current losing streak is the longest since 1971??

 

[EricSD]

You all make some good points. Some of the orange folks are delusional as always and think they could land any coach. I can almost guarantee you if she's fired mid season, they will get NO ONE. Not a single coach out there in a quality program should consider jumping ship mid season.

They would likely promote Lockwood as interim head coach and then start their search. The chances of landing anyone like Schaeffer, Graves, Ruek, Walz, Frese, etc etc. are slim to none. They have floated names like Goestenkors (why she'd take that job would be a huge mystery), Nikki Fargas (Caldwell) has also been floated around along with some other mid-major types.

Fargas did nothing good at UCLA - on paper her record was good the 2nd and 3rd seasons (horrible the first season), but she recruited poorly and left the cupboard mostly bare. She's been no great shakes at LSU - but again, did better the first 3 seasons with other coaches' recruits. In the last 4 years she's lost in the 1st round of the NCAA's 3 times and missed them entirely once. From my perspecteve, she'd be the perfect replacement for Holly - a lot more of the same for Tennessee. Frankly i'm not sure why so many of their faithful are enamored with her, except for the fact that she's an attractive black woman.

Maybe Kristy Curry? Lisa Fortier (Gonzaga)? Jenny Baranczyk (Drake)? Karl Smesko (FGCU)? Sue Guevara (Central Michigan)? I'm sure there are others.

Given how well Tenn has recruited the last 3 years, and the fact that Holly has a contract running a few more years, I just don't see the point in the Administration firing her now. Maybe after the season is over if they miss the NCAA's, but I don't see that happening unless they completely implode.

Side note - I am no longer the least bit worried that they would beat an "undermanned" UCONN team next season. They really are a delightful train wreck...

 

[DefenseBB]

I must say with the question/answers/opinions that @vowelguy and @EricLA have postulated, I have mixed emotions that either Holly will make the NCAA's and not be relieved (Glee) of her duties or if they do implode and she is replaced by Fargas or really, any former Vol player (elation). We call this the win/win fulcrum.

 

[Carnac]

You all make some good points. Some of the orange folks are delusional as always and think they could land any coach. I can almost guarantee you if she's fired mid season, they will get NO ONE. Not a single coach out there in a quality program should consider jumping ship mid season.

They would likely promote Lockwood as interim head coach and then start their search. The chances of landing anyone like Schaeffer, Graves, Ruek, Walz, Frese, etc etc. are slim to none. They have floated names like Goestenkors (why she'd take that job would be a huge mystery), Nikki Fargas (Caldwell) has also been floated around along with some other mid-major types.

Fargas did nothing good at UCLA - on paper her record was good the 2nd and 3rd seasons (horrible the first season), but she recruited poorly and left the cupboard mostly bare. She's been no great shakes at LSU - but again, did better the first 3 seasons with other coaches' recruits. In the last 4 years she's lost in the 1st round of the NCAA's 3 times and missed them entirely once. From my perspecteve, she'd be the perfect replacement for Holly - a lot more of the same for Tennessee. Frankly i'm not sure why so many of their faithful are enamored with her, except for the fact that she's an attractive black woman.

Maybe Kristy Curry? Lisa Fortier (Gonzaga)? Jenny Baranczyk (Drake)? Karl Smesko (FGCU)? Sue Guevara (Central Michigan)? I'm sure there are others.

Given how well Tenn has recruited the last 3 years, and the fact that Holly has a contract running a few more years, I just don't see the point in the Administration firing her now. Maybe after the season is over if they miss the NCAA's, but I don't see that happening unless they completely implode.

Side note - I am no longer the least bit worried that they would beat an "undermanned" UCONN team next season. They really are a delightful train wreck...

A name that has been mentioned before here in the yard that I think would be a perfect and natural fit. A name that would be unanimously accepted and supported by Volunteer Nation is their own Kara Lawson. The question is would she accept the challenge?

She knows the game, has name recognition in addition to strong program ties, and appears to have a pleasant bedside manner. She could no doubt assemble a staff that could recruit at least as well as Holly does. I think Kara would change the culture and turn the LV fortunes around in no time. They could do worse.

 

[nwhoopfan]

A name that has been mentioned before here in the yard that I think would be a perfect and natural fit, and would be unanimously accepted and supported by Volunteer Nation is their own Kara Lawson.

Does she have any coaching experience? Whalen is undergoing trial by fire at Minnesota. She had no previous coaching experience I believe. Everything looked fine until conference play started, then the wheels fell off the bus. Head coach of a major D1 university is not an entry level position, I don't care how good of a player someone was or how long they've been around the game of basketball. At some point you need to learn how to coach and it takes time.

 

[EricSD]

A name that has been mentioned before here in the yard that I think would be a perfect and natural fit. A name that would be unanimously accepted and supported by Volunteer Nation is their own Kara Lawson.

She knows the game, has name recognition in addition to strong program ties, and appears to have a pleasant bedside manner. She could no doubt assemble a staff that could recruit at least as well as Holly does. I think Kara would change the culture and turn the LV fortunes around in no time. They could do worse.

The thing that sucks about that is I like Kara a lot, and should she take the job, I'd have to start rooting for her to fail. Also, As smart as she is with regards to announcing and analyzing, she's never coached before (I don't think she has) and has no recruiting history. I guess it would be similar to Whalen taking over at Minnesota.

But honestly, If I were Kara, I'd not be interested - I bet she gets paid better at ESPN and she gets to do a much wider variety of things (she's also done the color for men's games and maybe even for the pros). Her current gig is much easier than the 24/7 commitment it takes to make a program successful... I'd think it would be a step backwards for her, to be honest.

 

[Plebe]

Right now the Vols are 1-5 in the SEC. Let's assume that they manage to hold serve against Florida, Vanderbilt (x2), and Ole Miss (far from a sure thing, of course, but those teams are worse than any they've lost to so far). Let's also assume that they lose at Mississippi State. Their other 5 games are against LSU, Auburn, @Missouri, @Texas A&M and South Carolina. If they can just win 2 of those games, that will put them at 7-9 in the SEC and 18-10 overall heading into the SEC tournament. And that'll probably be just enough to get them an at-large bid in the 8 to 10 seed range.

 

[Carnac]

Does she have any coaching experience? Whalen is undergoing trial by fire at Minnesota. She had no previous coaching experience I believe. Everything looked fine until conference play started, then the wheels fell off the bus. Head coach of a major D1 university is not an entry level position, I don't care how good of a player someone was or how long they've been around the game of basketball. At some point you need to learn how to coach and it takes time.

I like Kara too. I believe she was on staff for one or more of the USA Olympic National Teams, but that’s not the type of coaching experience you’re referring to.

Kara went to work for ESPN as a color analyst before she retired from the WNBA, and continued in that assignment afterwards. Now she also does NBA games. The network producers like her.

 

[Carnac]

The thing that sucks about that is I like Kara a lot, and should she take the job, I'd have to start rooting for her to fail. Also, As smart as she is with regards to announcing and analyzing, she's never coached before (I don't think she has) and has no recruiting history. I guess it would be similar to Whalen taking over at Minnesota.

But honestly, If I were Kara, I'd not be interested - I bet she gets paid better at ESPN and she gets to do a much wider variety of things (she's also done the color for men's games and maybe even for the pros). Her current gig is much easier than the 24/7 commitment it takes to make a program successful... I'd think it would be a step backwards for her, to be honest.

You’re probably right. It was just a thought. You never know what she would do if that offer was made. I’m sure she’s happy in her present occupation. She’s already very wealthy and does not need the money.

 

[Plebe]

The thing that sucks about that is I like Kara a lot, and should she take the job, I'd have to start rooting for her to fail. Also, As smart as she is with regards to announcing and analyzing, she's never coached before (I don't think she has) and has no recruiting history. I guess it would be similar to Whalen taking over at Minnesota.

But honestly, If I were Kara, I'd not be interested - I bet she gets paid better at ESPN and she gets to do a much wider variety of things (she's also done the color for men's games and maybe even for the pros). Her current gig is much easier than the 24/7 commitment it takes to make a program successful... I'd think it would be a step backwards for her, to be honest.

Kara's broadcasting career is hitting full stride with her current full-time gig with the Wizards. Those "resident" jobs with the big-time pro teams are the sweet nectar in the broadcasting world. Great stability and doesn't require the constant travel. The ESPN work is now her (also sweet) side gig. She'd have to be borderline insane to leap from that into the inherent insecurity and tumult of collegiate coaching. I know she worked recently as coach of a USA 3x3 team, but this is a completely different proposition.