LaVols and Holly: Local Dissatisfaction Growing (merged thread)

[Carnac]

If Holly is canned midseason, an assistant would take over for the remainder of the year. I can't imagine she gets canned mid year though...coaches are usually given the full season and are let go after it's over. If she steps down it wont be until after the season IMO unless there's a players protest or something big going on behind the scenes. Right now it appears to be primarily a disgruntled fan base issue.

I agree Tennessee wouldn't get any of the top coaches listed above, especially if they're not willing to shell out big bucks. Holly is paid as a mid-level SEC coach right now, and they'd need to offer a good chunk more to get a top coach IMO. The only one who I think could maybe consider leaving is Rueck since he could make 2x as much at Tennessee, but it'd be a long shot. Plus I don't see them hiring a man for the position.

Fargas did a better job than you give her credit for at UCLA, but I don't think a lot of fans are all that excited by her based on her results at LSU. I'm definitely not. She'd by the obvious choice if they wanted to keep it in Pat's coaching tree, but I'm hoping they don't go that route.

Goestenkors would be a dream but unfortunately I don't think she has any desire to get back into coaching. Top candidates IMO would be Banghart, Fortier an Baranczyk.

The idea of Lawson or Catchings is a nice one, but neither has coaching experience, so how well they teach/motivate is unknown. Love them both as announcers though.

At the rate Tennessee is going, they're not going to be a tournament team unless the team digs deep and makes a massive turnaround. They're 1-5 in the SEC, and the SEC is the weakest its ever been. Plus they haven't played the 2 best teams yet. If that isn't imploding, I'm not sure what is.

Your post and Orangutan's post made me wonder which top 6 ranked program will fare the best AFTER the current coaches all retire.... Notre Dame, Baylor, UConn, Louisville, Oregon or Stanford?

How hard will it be for UConn and Stanford to hire a quality coach that will come in to replace a "legend" ?

 

[Plebe]

Last second miracle shots

Alaska-Anchorage is no pushover. The DII school beat Tulsa in the Great Alaska Shootout this season. A few years ago they upset a “name” Div I school can’t remember who

Can they beat Tennessee 5 times in a row like Alabama has?

 

[Orangutan]

Tennessee is unique compared to most other programs because it's a central hub for women's basketball and has such an established base. It has the HOF there, streets and statues named after players, a massive fan base, good funding and consistently gets TV coverage. UT also plays in one of the top basketball conferences and has a very strong history with its Finals Fours and championships. If a new coach can make Tennessee a top 10 program again, attendance will rise back to 10k+. I think the job will be desirable for years to come.

Tennessee is a very good job for sure, but I think Skins makes a good point with respect to the people who have unrealistic expectations of who Tennessee might be able to get. I know you don't fall into that bracket ,but we've both seen the people who are dreaming of Mulkey or Walz or whoever. Those people don't need Tennessee's rep to propel them to success. They have their own power 5 programs that they've put on the map themselves.

Top assistants, mid-major coaches, and coaches at less-visible P5 schools (someone on some board mentioned Sue Semrau, which is not a bad idea, imo) should definitely be jumping at the chance to coach Tennessee if the job does become available.

I definitely think ND could fall off if success isn't maintained by Muffet's successor. That's where I understand the impulse to hire someone who is close to the program. It might be easier to sell ND's history of success if you have a coach that was a big part of that success (like Ivey).

UConn will have the tradition but I think their location and conference become a bigger factor in the absence of Geno. Now, UConn has the ability to pluck kids from Arkansas or California or Missouri. Are those same kids coming cross-country to play in the AAC for, hypothetically, Shea Ralph? New England is not a hotbed area for top wbb talent, at least not compared with the south or Texas or California. Tennessee can just mostly recruit within the south (and Oregon, I guess) and be fine.

ND already does most of their recruiting out of the midwest and east coast where the ND brand is strongest. UConn doesn't currently work under such geographic limitations. I don't think UConn will fall off the map but it will get harder after Geno.

 

[CocoHusky]

I would equate Geno leaving to when Stewie left WCBB-the playing field was suddenly much more even.

 

[Dillon77]

I thought of these three coaches when a UTenn-thread popped up on McGraw's Bench (after all, we are playing them on Thursday).

Forget the established coaches (Walz, Rueck)....you're not getting them because they have their programs.
Nikki Fargas of LSU was just given a three-year extension but the buyout is only $300K, which is a reminder the leash isn't that long.

Go (slightly) young(er), look at non P5 conferences and go in with an open mind:

- Jennie Baranczyk, Drake. Look at what she does in the middle of Iowa. Imagine her with all that talent and the established recruiting base that is Knoxville.

- Tina Langley, Rice. The former assc. head coach at Maryland (following Walz) had done a bravura job with a deft combination of transfers (remember Nancy Mulkey?) and recruits at a tough academic school. Let her loose here.

- Karl Smesko, Florida Gulf Coast University. How this guy keeps a program going, let alone powering into the tourney is sublime. Well, invite players to come to the beaches, get the right transfers and coach the bejesus out of them. Fun style of ball, too. He has been tempted but loves the beach. Maybe Phil F. can throw a lot of orange cash at him. He might be ready for a different kind of challenge.

 

[triaddukefan]

Notre Dame's future will come down to coaching IMO. It is strong in many sports and I think WBB could get lost in the shuffle. The success of ND women's basketball is a more recent phenomenon too (within the last decade). Attendance is good but not great, and I could see numbers slipping if the program were to decline. You look at a program like Duke and I could see a similar future if ND makes a really poor hire.

Please leave Duke outta this convo.....

Last second miracle shots

Alaska-Anchorage is no pushover. The DII school beat Tulsa in the Great Alaska Shootout this season. A few years ago they upset a “name” Div I school can’t remember who

Duke has hosted the Seawolves the last two seasons in exhibition games. I have no idea how that deal came together. But anyway..... yes they are a pretty good D2 squad. I try to keep up with their progress... #10 ranked right now. Plus they have a cool logo and colors.

 

[Plebe]

Duke has hosted the Seawolves the last two seasons in exhibition games. I have no idea how that deal came together. But anyway..... yes they are a pretty good D2 squad. I try to keep up with their progress... #10 ranked right now. Plus they have a cool logo and colors.

Massey does rank AK-Anchorage higher than Vanderbilt

 

[triaddukefan]

Massey does rank AK-Anchorage higher than Vanderbilt

In all seriousness.... give UAA a 6'3 or 6'4 post.. who could rebound and rim protect.... they would beat a fair number of mid-majors.... like most schools on that level... they just lack size up front.

 

[Dillon77]

Notre Dame's future will come down to coaching IMO. It is strong in many sports and I think WBB could get lost in the shuffle. The success of ND women's basketball is a more recent phenomenon too (within the last decade). Attendance is good but not great, and I could see numbers slipping if the program were to decline. You look at a program like Duke and I could see a similar future if ND makes a really poor hire.

Points taken, but perhaps a bit too strong on some:
- ND's attendance is very good: sixth in the country in 2017-18, right between Louisville and Mississippi State.
- MM has been building this sport for her entire tenure. Yes, it took off with Skylar Diggins, but it wasn't barren during the Jacqui Batteast (another South Bend Washington grad, like Sky) years, either.

In fact, I think one reason why ND administration will push hard is how much this particular sport reaches into a certain part of the Michiana community. Not lost by Jack Swarbrick, Fr. Jenkins.

I definitely think ND could fall off if success isn't maintained by Muffet's successor. That's where I understand the impulse to hire someone who is close to the program. It might be easier to sell ND's history of success if you have a coach that was a big part of that success (like Ivey).

ND already does most of their recruiting out of the midwest and east coast where the ND brand is strongest. UConn doesn't currently work under such geographic limitations. I don't think UConn will fall off the map but it will get harder after Geno.

- Not surprisingly, you and I are in complete agreement on this. MM's successor, whenever it happens, will be a member of the McGraw coaching tree, who understands how this whole enterprise is stitched together, from the types of recruits they go after and how to retain them, to the offense they run and how they conduct community outreach.

Right now, I (still) think the top candidates are Niele Ivey, Beth Morgan Cunningham (current asst. coach and former successful VCU HC) and Megan Duffy, Miami (Ohio) Head Coach and former All-American PG under MM (as was Ivey).

 

[DefenseBB]

Apparently Holly was a 440 champion in HS. She may need that speed to get out of town one day. That's her on the right:

View attachment 38641

Is that Zola Budd on the left?

 

[DefenseBB]

e

Alaska-Anchorage is no pushover. The DII school beat Tulsa in the Great Alaska Shootout this season. A few years ago they upset a “name” Div I school can’t remember who

Tulsa? You want to advocate UAA because they beat #165 Tulsa whose best win is over #113 Alabama and who lost to #201 Arkansas State? You would have been better served just saying “they are no pushover” and we would have believed you and your credibility now, though, I have to rethink this...JK

 

[DefenseBB]

......- Not surprisingly, you and I are in complete agreement on this. MM's successor, whenever it happens, will be a member of the McGraw coaching tree, who understands how this whole enterprise is stitched together, from the types of recruits they go after and how to retain them, to the offense they run and how they conduct community outreach.

Right now, I (still) think the top candidates are Niele Ivey, Beth Morgan Cunningham (current asst. coach and former successful VCU HC) and Megan Duffy, Miami (Ohio) Head Coach and former All-American PG under MM (as was Ivey).

I parsed out your comments to zero in on a key point you bring up:
MM has a GREAT and established coaching tree to chose from with either proven top D1 coaches, mid-major head coaches or top assistants that would give a Confidence to the administration no matter who they chose, chances are it will be a good choice.
UConn and Tenn do not have that luxury as neither Geno nor Pat have anyone with very good success for a similar confidence. Micki DeMoss is clearly the best of the LV tree but she’s older and there are prior issues of concern. In the Huskies case the only HC with success is D3 Carla Berube. Jen, Tanya, Jamelle have all been underwhelming as HC to warrant giving them the reigns of this program. Marissa is off to a good start but still an unknown. As such, it raises minor concerns then to give it to unproven Shea. Sue, Diana and Rebecca are non-starters for me, despite their Basketball experience, they have never dealt with all the requirements coaching entails and I don’t want on the job training at that point.

Am I overly concerned, no, but it is not a slam dunk like it is for ND. My own preference if UConn wants to stay in the family is to give it to Shea.

 

[WestsideWaltz]

Fargas did a better job than you give her credit for at UCLA, but I don't think a lot of fans are all that excited by her based on her results at LSU. I'm definitely not. She'd by the obvious choice if they wanted to keep it in Pat's coaching tree, but I'm hoping they don't go that route.

I disagree. Fargas did some good things at UCLA but they were mostly related to her own self promotion. That was good in that it brought attention to UCLA but her own goal seemed to be making it all about her. She was a PR exec. She was/is a poor recruiter and was an extremely lazy administrator at UCLA. She and her staff except for Tasha Butts were quite rude and arrogant. She did respectably with Kathy Olivier's recruits but the one player who changed things around for her and UCLA was Rutgers' transfer Jasmine Dixon and that happened in the middle of her second season. Her first season record and Kathy Olivier's final season record at UCLA are very similar. Dixon turned everything around and they had very good showings for two seasons. Dixon led the team in scoring and rebounding those two years. Her recruiting was so bad that she left UCLA without a point guard when she departed. I have to say that she seems like an excellent x's and o's coach and she might do well in the WNBA but too many people, including the LSU AD drank the Kool Aid and believed all that was put out there, much of it by Caldwell Fargas herself. The best thing she did at UCLA, IMO was make the players understand the program was about basketball again and that's no small feat.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Well, she did have the upper hand.

Where is the bat though? Remember?

 

[Adesmar123]

Where is the bat though? Remember?

Bottlecaps?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Bottlecaps?

You know @Adesmar123 there is a baseball forum. The Sport That Time Forgot

 

[CocoHusky]

I disagree. Fargas did some good things at UCLA but they were mostly related to her own self promotion. That was good in that it brought attention to UCLA but her own goal seemed to be making it all about her. She was a PR exec. She was/is a poor recruiter and was an extremely lazy administrator at UCLA. She and her staff except for Tasha Butts were quite rude and arrogant. She did respectably with Kathy Olivier's recruits but the one player who changed things around for her and UCLA was Rutgers' transfer Jasmine Dixon and that happened in the middle of her second season. Her first season record and Kathy Olivier's final season record at UCLA are very similar. Dixon turned everything around and they had very good showings for two seasons. Dixon led the team in scoring and rebounding those two years. Her recruiting was so bad that she left UCLA without a point guard when she departed. I have to say that she seems like an excellent x's and o's coach and she might do well in the WNBA but too many people, including the LSU AD drank the Kool Aid and believed all that was put out there, much of it by Caldwell Fargas herself. The best thing she did at UCLA, IMO was make the players understand the program was about basketball again and that's no small feat.

Don't think you are giving Nikki( it was Caldwell at the time) enough credit in either recruiting or coaching. For one she did snag Markel Walker out of Philly to play at UCLA. Markel was the #4 recruit in the 2009 class I don't believe UCLA has ever had a higher rated recruit in WCBB. During the 2010-11 season Nikki brought her UCLA team into ND and came away with a double OT win. This was the same season ND lost in the national championship game to Texas A&M. That ND team had 8 losses on the season but the only other team to beat ND at home was UCONN-with Maya dropping 31. UCLA would finish that season with 5 total loses the fewest in program history. Nikki was 72 and 26 at UCLA =winning percentage of 73% . Cori Close is 150 and 86=winning percentage 63% KAthy Oliver was 232–208= winning percentage of 52%
Within the conference UCLA finished 2nd twice in three season under Nikki. In 8 years under Close UCLA nad never finished higher than 3rd, and one season finished 8th. Additionally Kathy Oliver had three consecutive losing seasons after her initial campaign at UCLA. Of the last three UCLA coaches Nikki was the most productive by a mile.

 

[EricLA]

She might send a number of the current players packing. Kara is not the type to beat around the bush. She would tell them it's my way or the highway.

That’s part of changing culture in a program, house cleaning.

But (and I'm legitimately asking), what sort of housecleaning is necessary? Who on the team is a chemistry problem? Cooper and Deshields are gone and Holly has all kids she's recruited herself now. All of the recruits were preached to about the family, etc. Horston said she chose Tennessee in part because she felt comfortable there and she liked how the team prayed together before each game.

I've not seen any indication that there are any issues with any of the current players. I'm not disagreeing with either of you - just asking why she would need to approach as "my way or the highway"...?

 

[CocoHusky]

But (and I'm legitimately asking), what sort of housecleaning is necessary? Who on the team is a chemistry problem? Cooper and Deshields are gone and Holly has all kids she's recruited herself now. All of the recruits were preached to about the family, etc. Horston said she chose Tennessee in part because she felt comfortable there and she liked how the team prayed together before each game. I've not seen any indication that there are any issues with any of the current players. I'm not disagreeing with either of you - just asking why she would need to approach as "my way or the highway"...?

The house cleaning comments might be directed at Rennia Davis, specifically her body language & the way she exited the Arkansas and Alabama games and an unpleasant interaction with Holly that was partially captured on camera.

 

[EricLA]

I disagree. Fargas did some good things at UCLA but they were mostly related to her own self promotion. That was good in that it brought attention to UCLA but her own goal seemed to be making it all about her. She was a PR exec. She was/is a poor recruiter and was an extremely lazy administrator at UCLA. She and her staff except for Tasha Butts were quite rude and arrogant. She did respectably with Kathy Olivier's recruits but the one player who changed things around for her and UCLA was Rutgers' transfer Jasmine Dixon and that happened in the middle of her second season. Her first season record and Kathy Olivier's final season record at UCLA are very similar. Dixon turned everything around and they had very good showings for two seasons. Dixon led the team in scoring and rebounding those two years. Her recruiting was so bad that she left UCLA without a point guard when she departed. I have to say that she seems like an excellent x's and o's coach and she might do well in the WNBA but too many people, including the LSU AD drank the Kool Aid and believed all that was put out there, much of it by Caldwell Fargas herself. The best thing she did at UCLA, IMO was make the players understand the program was about basketball again and that's no small feat.

For the most part I agree. As a West Coaster who lives in LA now, I followed UCLA closer than most UCONN fans. In 3 years of recruiting there, she managed to land 1 top 10 kid (Walker), 1 top 20 kid (Nyingifa) and one kid in the top 100 (Gardner - 71). All the rest of the recruits she got were not even in the top 100 (4 total).

Walker was so undeveloped during her time at UCLA that I believe she wasn't even drafted in 3 rounds in the WNBA draft. What I heard from people in the know is that she was disinterested in putting in the hard work required to recruit and develop top level talent. In fairness, she did manage to lure Dixon to UCLA, but Dixon was originally from Long Beach, which is about 45 minutes from UCLA's campus. I'm not sure how much "recruiting" Fargas actually had to do with Dixon. Her last season at UCLA was a disaster in recruiting with 3 players not even in the top 100 and she did nothing to foster good relationships with the talent rich AAU programs in the LA area.

She lost out on local players like Kaneisha Horn (Duke), Cassie Harberts (USC), Afure Jemerigbe (Cal), Monique Oliver (Rutgers), Rogers, Pierre and Stallworth (Cal), Alyssa Brewer (Tenn), and Dixon/Speed (Rutgers).

Her W-L % at UCLA was quite a bit better than at LSU. As I said earlier, if Tenn fans really think she's the answer, I would love to see her replace Holly. I doubt she could recruit as well as Holly since I don't think she works nearly as hard, and her player development seems to be on par with what Tenn currently has. Have at it LVols!!

 

[EricLA]

The house cleaning comments might be directed at Rennia Davis, specifically her body language & the way she exited the Arkansas and Alabama games and an unpleasant interaction with Holly that was partially captured on camera.

Thanks. I did not catch that.

 

[DefenseBB]

....As I said earlier, if Tenn fans really think she's the answer, I would love to see her replace Holly. I doubt she could recruit as well as Holly since I don't think she works nearly as hard, and her player development seems to be on par with what Tenn currently has. Have at it LVols!!

What the heck are you doing? I thought you bled Husky Blue? Stop with the logic and anecdotal evidence! Let them hire Nikki and make our LSU fans and us extremely happy!

 

[Plebe]

Thanks. I did not catch that.

You can move about 1:00 into this clip. Rennia says something as she's passing the coaches, and Holly is quick to react. Holly misses the entire ensuing Tennessee possession while she's still glowering over Rennia.

 

[HuskyNan]

e

Tulsa? You want to advocate UAA because they beat #165 Tulsa whose best win is over #113 Alabama and who lost to #201 Arkansas State? You would have been better served just saying “they are no pushover” and we would have believed you and your credibility now, though, I have to rethink this...JK

AA is a Division 2 team. A D1 team should beat a D2 team

 

[DefenseBB]

AA is a Division 2 team. A D1 team should beat a D2 team

Unless your Tulsa, ECU, Wichita St....

I am sorry NaN, I am just having some fun during this cold spell, killing time before tonight’s game...forgive me