LaVols and Holly: Local Dissatisfaction Growing (merged thread)

[bballnut90]

I appreciate your objectivity. You are a dying breed in this country.

And I almost always think well of your posts, no matter the subject. Please continue your fine posts.

Thanks....I just call it how I see it. I'm at a point where I'm hoping the team tanks for the sake of its future. Tank this year, get a new coach who will motivate the players and hopefully we'll be a top team again.

 

[DallasBUFan]

If something does happen to Holly, Baylor needs a PG!!

 

[Plebe]

Tennessee would have to release her or shed have to get a release from the NCAA. Honestly anyone from the 2018 and 2019 classes had to consider that Holly could be on her way out.

I think most players would stay if Holly left and if they like her replacement. On the flip side, if she stays I'm guessing a couple of players leave after this year. Rennia Davis looked very checked out last game and Westbrook is too good to waste her talent at a school where she isnt going to improve.

I feel compelled to caution that body language can be a very poor indicator of whether someone will transfer. A lot of players pout and sulk when they're not playing well, especially when their poor individual play is combined with poor team play. It doesn't necessarily mean they're looking to quit the team.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The current freshman class would have been in 2nd grade when Tennessee last won a national title.

That adds some perspective. Some of these kids probably weren't even born yet during Tennessee's true heyday in the late 90s.

 

[uconnfan68]

Often when there is a coaching change, some incoming recruits ask to be released from their LOI. It's up to the school's discretion if they grant that request or not. If a player is released, they can go elsewhere and be eligible immediately. If they are not released they can transfer, but would have to sit out a year (unless the NCAA approved a waiver for immediate eligibility). Usually a request to be released from a LOI is granted, because who needs a player hanging around for a year that doesn't want to be there?

Plenty of pettiness in college athletics. Even more in the NCAA.

 

[Plebe]

That adds some perspective. Some of these kids probably weren't even born yet during Tennessee's true heyday in the late 90s.

Evina Westbrook was born in Sept. 1998, several months after Tennessee had its undefeated season.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Plenty of pettiness in college athletics. Even more in the NCAA.

Granted a school doesn't always grant the release. When June Daugherty was let go at Washington and replaced by Tia Jackson, she had an incoming class of 6. Most of them wanted to go elsewhere, but the school didn't comply. After the season 4 of the 6 transferred out. The only 2 who stayed were locals. I remember it wasn't a good look for UW and they got some criticism for it.

 

[Geew1992]

Wait when did holly get fired??

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I don't think Fulmer is going to fire Holly, to be honest. They have worked together for decades.

 

[bballnut90]

I feel compelled to caution that body language can be a very poor indicator of whether someone will transfer. A lot of players pout and sulk when they're not playing well, especially when their poor individual play is combined with poor team play. It doesn't necessarily mean they're looking to quit the team.

Fair statement--I guess it's more of how I would feel if i were that talented and in their shoes....granted I wouldn't choose to play for Holly in the first place.

 

[JordyG]

The rumors are picking up y'all that Holly may not last to the conference playoffs. The whispers are getting louder. Again, if I were Holly I'd fall on my sword and resign, but that's just me. It seems to me that the next two games against Arkansas and ND are real crucial for her. I think if she loses to Arkansas she's done.

 

[jdubct]

In 2018 just signed a contract extension through the 2020-21 season. She would be owed a lot of money going forward if she were fired. From that, at least, it doesn't seem likely to happen.

 

[cohenzone]

While I was incredibly disturbed when Pat Summitt submitted her report to the NCAA, I long ago forgave her, particularly in light of her diagnosis with Alzheimer’s. I will remind everyone that the initial symptoms of this terrible disease can appear many years before an official diagnosis and eventual death. Those symptoms can include various cognitive issues, memory loss, confusion resulting in anger and sometimes irrational behavior.

Pat issues her 40 page report in 2007? She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 2010. She passed away in 2015. It’s time for the BY to let go of this one.

It took Red Sox fans almost 100 years and a WS title to let go of the curse of the Bambino Part of the fun of fandom is having a rival you can hate. Personally, I hope UT somehow beats ND. Boy do I hate ND’s whole atheletic arrogance. There isnt a single team in the AAC I can hate. What a bummer.

I don’t watch UT and obviously the rap on Holly is that she does less with more, even though her overall record would be a success at most schools. I’m more focused on our own program. This year might or might not end with a W. Absent some late recruits with solid experience who can rebound the ball and score, next year doesn’t look so promising in terms of potential champions. .

 

[Lawrence]

I think it is best that VOL Nation critique her performance and not us. Just my thoughts.

 

[mbr33ct]

I've given this some thought, and I really think a major factor is the huge fan support combined with the (allegedly) great facilities that Tennessee offers. Players like the idea of playing for large crowds. It's unclear to me how much the program's winning tradition per se is a factor. The current freshman class would have been in 2nd grade when Tennessee last won a national title.

As far as large crowds are concerned, Tenn WAS the place to play in front of the largest crowds in WCBB, during Pat's era. The rise of Dawn Staley/South Carolina and the demise of the LadyVols (Holly as coach) has left TBA attendances tumble the last few years.

Last year the LadyVols were 4th in attendance at 8,778/game behind South Carolina (13,239), UConn (10,026) and Iowa St (9,870). For YTD, the LadyVols have drawn an average 7,999/game. I don't see that number getting any better for the remainder of this year. I would not be surprised if the LadyVols attendance this year drops to 7th based on last years 2017-18 Home Avg Leaders.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think it is best that VOL Nation critique her performance and not us. Just my thoughts.

Just my thoughts: BY knows basketball better that VolNation because we have actually seen good examples that are less than a decade old.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

While I understand the sentiment @LAWRENCE, having a storied program in WCBB run by a basketball dullard weakens the game and should be a concern for all fans of the game.

 

[Charliebball]

this is all wishful thinking.................unless they totally tank, the odds are Holly isn't going anywhere which most here would actually be happy about

 

[JordyG]

In 2018 just signed a contract extension through the 2020-21 season. She would be owed a lot of money going forward if she were fired. From that, at least, it doesn't seem likely to happen.

In truth it would cost UT $600,000 to release Holly at any time. Now, that is a chunk of change. But UT is a healthy sports institution, and although WCBB doesn't take in much, especially during the Holly era, UT's pockets are deep enough to fire Holly and assume a contract from another coach, say between $800,00 to even $1.1 million without any strain. However, if she resigns that goes out the window and they'll owe her nothing.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Should be drawing big crowd but did you see the lack of fans in the stands for the Alabama Tennessee game, I doubt there were 1000 fans at that game. Parity without quality is not the answer, we need quality relevant competition between the top teams to really put the sport on the floor that fans will pay to see.

That game was at Alabama.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

It took Red Sox fans almost 100 years and a WS title to let go of the curse of the Bambino Part of the fun of fandom is having a rival you can hate. Personally, I hope UT somehow beats ND. Boy do I hate ND’s whole atheletic arrogance. There isnt a single team in the AAC I can hate. What a bummer.

I don’t watch UT and obviously the rap on Holly is that she does less with more, even though her overall record would be a success at most schools. I’m more focused on our own program. This year might or might not end with a W. Absent some late recruits with solid experience who can rebound the ball and score, next year doesn’t look so promising in terms of potential champions. .

Sports are so much more fun with an arch-rival, especially when they are in close geographic proximity.

 

[oldude]

In truth it would cost UT $600,000 to release Holly at any time. Now, that is a chunk of change. But UT is a healthy sports institution, and although WCBB doesn't take in much, especially during the Holly era, UT's pockets are deep enough to fire Holly and assume a contract from another coach, say between $800,00 to even $1.1 million without any strain. However, if she resigns that goes out the window and they'll owe her nothing.

For purposes of comparison, when TN fired Head Football Coach Butch Jones last year, the buyout was $8.26 million. Subsequently, AD John Currie was sent packing after he botched the search for a new football coach. The price tag for Currie was $2.5 million. That’s almost $11 million in buyout costs, not including football assistants.

Does anyone really believe that TN would even blink at the cost of terminating HW’s contract if they decided it was time for her to go?

 

[Plebe]

For purposes of comparison, when TN fired Head Football Coach Butch Jones last year, the buyout was $8.26 million. Subsequently, AD John Currie was sent packing after he botched the search for a new football coach. The price tag for Currie was $2.5 million. That’s almost $11 million in buyout costs, not including football assistants.

Does anyone really believe that TN would even blink at the cost of terminating HW’s contract if they decided it was time for her to go?

Yes and no. Comparing buyout costs to what happened with football is really apples and oranges (or watermelons and blueberries?). Even with the relatively rabid fanbase of the Lady Vols, it's nothing to the level of hysteria and economics that football commands.

 

[Charliebball]

While I understand the sentiment @LAWRENCE, having a storied program in WCBB run by a basketball dullard weakens the game and should be a concern for all fans of the game.

that's an interesting thought...........it seems to me that most of the veteran BYers have taken great pleasure in watching Tennessee's downfall...........

 

[oldude]

Yes and no. Comparing buyout costs to what happened with football is really apples and oranges (or watermelons and blueberries?). Even with the relatively rabid fanbase of the Lady Vols, it's nothing to the level of hysteria and economics that football commands.

Agreed, but the issue is not money relative to WBB.