Knight Commission | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Knight Commission

upstater said:
The $34m per year was signed in 2011. Sounds like a bad contract that went way too long. For 29 games? They make $40m+ on ticket sales to the tourney. That's $74m.

The cost of renting an arena seems negligible for 29 games. Just $5k to $20k as I looked for NCAA tourney arena rental fees. Some places charge $1 to get the foot traffic in town.
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Don’t we pay 40,000+ for the XL Center for regular season games?
 
CL82 said:
Don’t we pay 40,000+ for the XL Center for regular season games?
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Are you serious? Wow. Because I just searched around the country for arena fees for the games and I found $5k to $15k. WOWOWOWOW
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Other than perhaps travel allowances (and negotiating costs) I'm not sure what expenses are incurred by the NCAA for any tournament televised by a third party.

What the NCAA should have been doing all along is disburse some amount (similar in percentage across all sports) of the profits of all television revenues from championship tournaments to the participants utilizing some uniform formula.

ESPN provides broadcasts of NCAA championships for lacrosse, baseball, softball, men's & women's (limited) ice hockey and likely many other sports that I haven't named. If the NCAA is pocketing the money they receive for these broadcast rights and only distributing portions for the men's basketball tournament they are idiotic as even if this does distribute more funds than a model that would isolate each sport, there is no means to demonstrate that the distributions are in any way equitable.
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Exactly!!!!
 
superjohn said:
It probably loses the same amount or less money than women's basketball does for the NCAA. I certainly wouldn't expect people to think they should get the same amount of payout as men's basketball does considering men's basketball brings in around $1 billion for the NCAA.
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What do you think are the expenses?

Please tell me how or why the NCAA pays out $100m for the women's tourney
 
upstater said:
Are you serious? Wow. Because I just searched around the country for arena fees for the games and I found $5k to $15k. WOWOWOWOW
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Yep. Except it’s not just 40,000…
E1A39B56-3DA1-4DA9-9DDF-C008B2BF1562.jpeg

It’s a ridiculous number. Sometimes I think people here react to any criticism of the XL Center lease with a mindset of “I’m not driving another 30 minutes to Storrs, it’s inconvenient…“ which is fair, but doesn’t address the fact that the economics of our lease is absolutely ridiculous. It is designed solely to hide the considerable losses the CDRA incurs. When people talk about the fact that the athletic department runs at a multi million dollar loss, a lot of that is being driven by the cost of ‘renting’ a state owned facility at an above market rate.
 
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CL82 said:
Yep. Except it’s not just 40,000…
View attachment 76456
It’s a ridiculous number. Sometimes I think people here react to any criticism of the XL Center lease with a mindset of “I’m not driving another 30 minutes to Storrs, it’s inconvenient…“ which is fair, but doesn’t address the fact that the economics of our lease is absolutely ridiculous. It is designed solely to hide the considerable losses the CDRA incurs. When people talk about the fact that the athletic department runs at a multi million dollar loss, a lot of that is being driven by the cost of ‘renting’ a state owned facility at an above market rate.
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It's definitely above market. But I'm assuming there's political support for forcing UConn to endure this.
 
upstater said:
It's definitely above market. But I'm assuming there's political support for forcing UConn to endure this.
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That’s the mythology of it. I’m not sure how much of that is real and how much of it is a product of “the way things are is the way they will always be“ mentality.
 
CL82 said:
That’s the mythology of it. I’m not sure how much of that is real and how much of it is a product of “the way things are is the way they will always be“ mentality.
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I'm not convinced that is enough of a reason for them to continue to agree to this horrible deal. My guess is political pressure, but who knows.
 
upstater said:
What do you think are the expenses?

Please tell me how or why the NCAA pays out $100m for the women's tourney
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It's my understanding the NCAA pays out 0 dollars for the women's tournament.
 
Rico444 said:
I'm not convinced that is enough of a reason for them to continue to agree to this horrible deal. My guess is political pressure, but who knows.
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Yeah, that is the default to answer, but it begs the question political pressure by whom against whom? I think it would be an extraordinarily difficult position to defend, especially if UConn came back and said we’d like to play at the Civic Center but we can’t afford it. We would be love to keep playing there if it were at fair lease rates.

I feel fairly confident in assuming that the Wolfpack is not paying $40,000, plus a $20-$30,000 additional fee, plus an additional per seat charge. It becomes an extraordinarily unsupportable argument to charge a private entity only a tiny fraction of what Connecticut taxpayers are being charged.
 
CL82 said:
Yeah, that is the default to answer, but it begs the question political pressure by whom against whom? I think it would be an extraordinarily difficult position to defend, especially if UConn came back and said we’d like to play at the Civic Center but we can’t afford it. We would be love to keep playing there if it were at fair lease rates.

I feel fairly confident in assuming that the Wolfpack is not paying $40,000, plus a $20-$30,000 additional fee, plus an additional per seat charge. It becomes an extraordinarily unsupportable argument to charge a private entity only a tiny fraction of what Connecticut taxpayers are being charged.
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My best guess is that Connecticut politicians want UConn basketball in Hartford for a number of reasons, and the XL is the only game in town so they're held over a barrel. The owners of the Wolfpack would likely move the franchise if they had to pay such exorbitant fees; they have no loyalty to Hartford.
 
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superjohn said:
It's my understanding the NCAA pays out 0 dollars for the women's tournament.
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Well, there you go...

If they have no expenses for it, they make $34m from TV (soon to rise to $100m because the deal was made in 2011 and the new estimates are for $100m because of the gains in popularity, and then they make 2x or 3x that in ticket sales. Average ticket for the F4 alone is $600. Multiply that x 18k x 3 games: $32m
 
Rico444 said:
My best guess is that Connecticut politicians want UConn basketball in Hartford for a number of reasons, and the XL is the only game in town so they're held over a barrel. The owners of the Wolfpack would likely move the franchise if they had to pay such exorbitant fees; they have no loyalty to Hartford.
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Yeah, but that’s what it is, a guess, right? We assume that either a majority of Connecticut politicians, or at least a significant plurality of Connecticut politicians, want UConn basketball in Hartford. That’s an assumption based upon the fact that UConn has played in Hartford since the Hartford Coliseum was built. But that’s actually a pretty thin basis for coming to that conclusion. I’m not sure it holds water, other than “we’ve always done it that way.” But let’s assume for a moment that there is at least some core group that feels that way. I wonder if they are fully aware of the economic cost in doing so. In the end, having UConn pay an above market rate to lease the XL Center is just state of Connecticut money going back to the state of Connecticut. Isn’t it more efficient, and creates more accountability, if the University of Connecticut pays a fair market lease rate in the state of Connecticut picks up the excess loss for the XL Center?
 
superjohn said:
It's my understanding the NCAA pays out 0 dollars for the women's tournament.
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I believe the budget for the women’s tournament in either 2020 or 2021 was $14.5 million. But that was based upon the fact that a lot of the games were held at the higher seeds a home court so that the NCAA did not have to pay airfare or lodging for them.

If I recall correctly ESPN pays something like $24-$36 million to CBS for the rights to carry the women’s tournament. Assuming all of that is correct that means that potentially the woman’s basketball tournament makes between $10 and $22 million. A significant amount of money, but to your point, pennies on the dollar compared to what the men’s team makes.

If the woman’s tournament changes its spending such that it matches the amenities afforded the men’s teams their expenses will be higher eroding that profit by an unknown figure.

Oh, @upstater? I wouldn’t bank on that $100 million figure until it actually materializes. That’s an estimate, not a fact.
 
CL82 said:
I believe the budget for the women’s tournament in either 2020 or 2021 was $14.5 million. But that was based upon the fact that a lot of the games were held at the higher seeds a home court so that the NCAA did not have to pay airfare or lodging for them.

If I recall correctly ESPN pays something like $24-$36 million to CBS for the rights to carry the women’s tournament. Assuming all of that is correct that means that potentially the woman’s basketball tournament makes between $10 and $22 million. A significant amount of money, but to your point, pennies on the dollar compared to what the men’s team makes.

If the woman’s tournament changes its spending such that it matches the amenities afforded the men’s teams their expenses will be higher eroding that profit by an unknown figure.

Oh, @upstater? I wouldn’t bank on that $100 million figure until it actually materializes. That’s an estimate, not a fact.
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Upstater asked why the NCAA pays out $100 million which they don't which led to my confusion. They pay out $0.

Yep, the ESPN contract is $36 mil., all those #'s are in an article I linked earlier in the thread.
 
CL82 said:
Yeah, but that’s what it is, a guess, right? We assume that either a majority of Connecticut politicians, or at least a significant plurality of Connecticut politicians, want UConn basketball in Hartford. That’s an assumption based upon the fact that UConn has played in Hartford since the Hartford Coliseum was built. But that’s actually a pretty thin basis for coming to that conclusion. I’m not sure it holds water, other than “we’ve always done it that way.” But let’s assume for a moment that there is at least some core group that feels that way. I wonder if they are fully aware of the economic cost in doing so. In the end, having UConn pay an above market rate to lease the XL Center is just state of Connecticut money going back to the state of Connecticut. Isn’t it more efficient, and creates more accountability, if the University of Connecticut pays a fair market lease rate in the state of Connecticut picks up the excess loss for the XL Center?
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Yeah its a guess, but the real answer isn't ever going to come out, so guessing is all we have. For an athletic department that has the deficit ours does, I would expect them to cut costs wherever possible, especially if the XL is a venue that the team seems to hate using.
 
upstater said:
Even if there's only a little profit it is weird the NCAA awards no money to the teams that play on the women's tourney. What could possibly be the reason for that?
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So there is no TV revenue? I doubt that.
 
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don't executives and employees at firms with higher revenue and profits generally receive more compensation than those at firms that are less successful?
 
CL82 said:
I believe the budget for the women’s tournament in either 2020 or 2021 was $14.5 million. But that was based upon the fact that a lot of the games were held at the higher seeds a home court so that the NCAA did not have to pay airfare or lodging for them.

If I recall correctly ESPN pays something like $24-$36 million to CBS for the rights to carry the women’s tournament. Assuming all of that is correct that means that potentially the woman’s basketball tournament makes between $10 and $22 million. A significant amount of money, but to your point, pennies on the dollar compared to what the men’s team makes.

If the woman’s tournament changes its spending such that it matches the amenities afforded the men’s teams their expenses will be higher eroding that profit by an unknown figure.

Oh, @upstater? I wouldn’t bank on that $100 million figure until it actually materializes. That’s an estimate, not a fact.
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You left out ticket sales.

The average ticket for the sellout at the F4 was $600.

And ESPN paid the NCAA $34m in 2011 for the NCAA and every year since, and the popularity of the sport has only gotten bigger.

Do a ticket sales calculation and we're talking about a $100m event.
 
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upstater said:
You left out ticket sales.

The average ticket for the sellout at the F4 was $600.

And ESPN paid the NCAA $34m in 2011 for the NCAA and every year since, and the popularity of the sport has only gotten bigger.

Do a ticket sales calculation and we're talking about a $100m event.
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Wait, you’re saying the average ticket price for the final four for women’s NCAA basketball was $600? Oh, I need to see a link for that…
 
upstater said:
You left out ticket sales.

The average ticket for the sellout at the F4 was $600.

And ESPN paid the NCAA $34m in 2011 for the NCAA and every year since, and the popularity of the sport has only gotten bigger.

Do a ticket sales calculation and we're talking about a $100m event.
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Your ticket price #'s for the final 4 in Minneapolis are all wrong.
 
superjohn said:
Your ticket price #'s for the final 4 in Minneapolis are all wrong.
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www.ticketsmarter.com

Buy NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Tickets, Prices, & Game Schedule | TicketSmarter

Get NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Game Tickets At TicketSmarter Today! Discover The Best Seats And Ticket Prices With Our Interactive Seating Chart.
www.ticketsmarter.com www.ticketsmarter.com

For the regional games, you can purchase women’s basketball tickets for as cheap as $23. Most tickets average $135 per session. To secure Women’s Final Four tickets, expect to pay an average of $600. The cheapest tickets can be purchased for $114.
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I was going by this site but whatever they are, they make $10m to $12m on them, and that's not even counting the S16, F8, or the early rounds, which I understand are sparsely attended. Still, they're making a lot on tickets. I bet $20m overall, added to the $34m, and that $34 is set to increase a lot.
 
upstater said:
www.ticketsmarter.com

Buy NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Tickets, Prices, & Game Schedule | TicketSmarter

Get NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Game Tickets At TicketSmarter Today! Discover The Best Seats And Ticket Prices With Our Interactive Seating Chart.
www.ticketsmarter.com www.ticketsmarter.com



I was going by this site but whatever they are, they make $10m to $12m on them, and that's not even counting the S16, F8, or the early rounds, which I understand are sparsely attended. Still, they're making a lot on tickets. I bet $20m overall, added to the $34m, and that $34 is set to increase a lot.
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There were plenty of tickets available the day before the final 4 for well under $100. The average ticket resale price for the final four was $204.
 
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