Resurrecting the old Big and ACC will battle for us over control of New York City
Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.
- Thread starter ZooCougar
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Just like Rutgers!
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When you really think about adding FSU plants the B1G flag deep in SEC territory
If the truly want to expand and dominate in football. Adding Fla to Texas and Southern Cal really helps in that regard
They passed on UCaL and/ or Stamford
Their last move had nothing to do with AAU or Academics . It was about being the dominant football conference
If the truly want to expand and dominate in football. Adding Fla to Texas and Southern Cal really helps in that regard
They passed on UCaL and/ or Stamford
Their last move had nothing to do with AAU or Academics . It was about being the dominant football conference
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No so much battle over NYC rather than.. the P2 are coming after our flagship programs in a hostile takeover.. what can we do to try and make it so the other guy gets eaten? Kinda like, you don't have to be able to outrun a bear.. you just can't be the slowest runner.
Chin Diesel
The timing could not possibly be worse
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B1G drives a wedge in to SEC and ACC territory- UVA, UNC, GT and Miami. They can skip a stone across South Carolina.
To me, there are a few ways the next round of expansion could go. The SEC and B1G could both end up with 20 schools or one could end up with 18 while the other has 20. Let's discuss the latter scenario.
If the SEC and B1G both expand to 20, the B12 would likely follow suit. That means there would be ten schools currently not in one of those those three conferences who would be getting in with full membership (football included). To me, the top nine candidates are pretty clear. In some order, the top nine would be UVA, Va Tech, UNC, NC St, Clemson, FSU, Miami, GA Tech, and Duke. The first four are premier schools in states the three conferences don't have a presence in. Clemson and FSU are football powers (less so recently for FSU, but they're in Florida and huge). Miami brings football history, a large market, and football history. There's a gap after that, but GA Tech (Atlanta market, excellent academics, some sports history) and Duke (elite basketball, elite academics, decent football) would be 8 and 9, in some order.
Who would get the tenth and final spot? To me, UConn would be a solid candidate, if they can continue- and build on- their newfound winning ways on the football field. However, there's a potential twist: Notre Dame- but not in the way you might think. The Irish won't give up their football independence so they won't take the last spot, but they still need a place to park their other sports. With the ACC losing its top nine schools, would the Irish want to remain in that conference as a non-football member or would they look to go elsewhere? On one hand, they may like the idea of staying in a conference with schools similar to them like Stanford, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC, but there's no doubt that the newly-raided ACC would be a step below the other three conferences athletically. In fact, that version of the ACC might even be in jeopardy of losing power conference status.
So where would Notre Dame go? They're not a good fit in the SEC. The B1G likely won't take them unless they join in football too, which Notre Dame won't agree to. That leaves the B12. The B12 would happily accept Notre Dame as a non-football member, provided Notre Dame plays a certain number of games per year against conference members, similar to the Irish's current agreement with the ACC.
But would Notre Dame have any other conditions for joining the B12? My concern is that they may use their influence to help Stanford land the 20th and final spot in the B12, by conditoning their agreement to join the B12 as a non-football member on the Cardinal being offered full membership. When the PAC fell apart, Notre Dame led the charge for Stanford and Cal to get into the ACC. Their ties with Stanford are stronger as the schools are similar in profile and play a head-to-head football game on an annual basis. Would Notre Dame use its influence and cache to help Stanford once again? On one hand, they wouldn't have a ton of leverage because the B12 would clearly be the next-best conference besides the SEC and B1G, so if ND doesn't get into the B12, where would they go? A vastly dimished ACC probably wouldn't be ideal. On the other hand, the B12 would benefit greatly from having Notre Dame in the conference, espeically with the SEC and B12 increasingly putting distance between themselves and the rest of the pack.
All of this is why I am concerned that Notre Dame may end up costing UConn a spot in the B12.
If the SEC and B1G both expand to 20, the B12 would likely follow suit. That means there would be ten schools currently not in one of those those three conferences who would be getting in with full membership (football included). To me, the top nine candidates are pretty clear. In some order, the top nine would be UVA, Va Tech, UNC, NC St, Clemson, FSU, Miami, GA Tech, and Duke. The first four are premier schools in states the three conferences don't have a presence in. Clemson and FSU are football powers (less so recently for FSU, but they're in Florida and huge). Miami brings football history, a large market, and football history. There's a gap after that, but GA Tech (Atlanta market, excellent academics, some sports history) and Duke (elite basketball, elite academics, decent football) would be 8 and 9, in some order.
Who would get the tenth and final spot? To me, UConn would be a solid candidate, if they can continue- and build on- their newfound winning ways on the football field. However, there's a potential twist: Notre Dame- but not in the way you might think. The Irish won't give up their football independence so they won't take the last spot, but they still need a place to park their other sports. With the ACC losing its top nine schools, would the Irish want to remain in that conference as a non-football member or would they look to go elsewhere? On one hand, they may like the idea of staying in a conference with schools similar to them like Stanford, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC, but there's no doubt that the newly-raided ACC would be a step below the other three conferences athletically. In fact, that version of the ACC might even be in jeopardy of losing power conference status.
So where would Notre Dame go? They're not a good fit in the SEC. The B1G likely won't take them unless they join in football too, which Notre Dame won't agree to. That leaves the B12. The B12 would happily accept Notre Dame as a non-football member, provided Notre Dame plays a certain number of games per year against conference members, similar to the Irish's current agreement with the ACC.
But would Notre Dame have any other conditions for joining the B12? My concern is that they may use their influence to help Stanford land the 20th and final spot in the B12, by conditoning their agreement to join the B12 as a non-football member on the Cardinal being offered full membership. When the PAC fell apart, Notre Dame led the charge for Stanford and Cal to get into the ACC. Their ties with Stanford are stronger as the schools are similar in profile and play a head-to-head football game on an annual basis. Would Notre Dame use its influence and cache to help Stanford once again? On one hand, they wouldn't have a ton of leverage because the B12 would clearly be the next-best conference besides the SEC and B1G, so if ND doesn't get into the B12, where would they go? A vastly dimished ACC probably wouldn't be ideal. On the other hand, the B12 would benefit greatly from having Notre Dame in the conference, espeically with the SEC and B12 increasingly putting distance between themselves and the rest of the pack.
All of this is why I am concerned that Notre Dame may end up costing UConn a spot in the B12.
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Huh? In what universe would UConn be the tenth team in this scenario?? So, they are going to leapfrog several existing P4 teams to grab the last P3 spot. Ummm that ain’t happening.
The only chance to get into a power conference is to have the ACC stay together as a power conference so that there is still a P4. If the B12 can lose Texas and Oklahoma and remain a power conference, perhaps the ACC can lose Clemson and Florida State and stay a power conference. More power conference seats = a better chance.
There’d be one slot left after the nine teams I listed above are selected, so the remaining ACC teams would be: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest, Cal, Stanford, and SMU. Which one(s) would the B12 take over UConn? I’m not sure whether any of them would be more desirable than a UConn, if we establish and consistently maintain a reasonable football level.
Wake Forest doesn’t bring much to the table, especially since Duke is already going to the B12 in this scenario, so they’ll have a presence in NC already.
BC has been terrible at sports for quite a while and they don’t get much attention in Boston.
SMU is coming off an excellent football season, but the B12 already has lots of teams in Texas, including TCU, which is basically next door to SMU.
Cal is a large public university but they haven’t had much success in the major sports for a little while now. Plus, the Bay Area doesn’t have a large college football following. They’d also be geographically isolated, especially since Stanford wouldn’t be coming with them as a travel partner.
Stanford is an excellent academic school with a phenomenal overall athletic department, but they have had recent struggles in both of the sports that generate most of the money: football and men’s basketball. As mentioned above, the Bay Area doesn’t have a large college football following, and Stanford be geographically isolated since Cal wouldn’t be coming with them as a travel partner.
Syracuse has some basketball history, but they haven’t exactly been great for a while now. They would bring a New York presence to the conference though. Their football has been okay, though they had a strong 2024.
Louisville is a poor academic school that has been good in football every so often and has had basketball success. They're also in Kentucky, which isn’t exactly a large market. They would provide a perfect geographic rival for Cincinnati.
Pitt has nibbled around the football top 25 for years, but they haven’t had much basketball success recently and don’t bring a particularly large market. They would provide a perfect geographic rival for West Virginia.
Meanwhile, UConn brings access to the NYC and New England markets, elite men’s and women’s basketball, and solid academics. The downside is we’re only a few years removed from an excessively horrific decade of football. But if UConn can start going 9-4 on a regular basis, is their profile really worse that the other eight candidates? I’m not saying they would necessarily have the strongest case, but I absolutely feel they would be in the discussion. After all, there’s a reason the B12 was having serious discussions about adding UConn a year ago.
CL82
NCAA Woman's Basketball National Champions
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FIFY
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If the rumors are correct, the Big 10 wanted Stanford and Cal, but the media partner (FOX) did not want them at the time. Remember, Oregon and Washington only got half shares of Big 10 media revenue, but USC and UCLA got full shares.
I think there are two traditional ACC schools that the Big 10 would be interested in, UNC and UVA, but is the feeling mutual? Maybe the Big 10 would be interested in Kansas? Otherwise, I think Stanford and Cal are still in play for the Big 10.
CL82
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I wonder if UNC would be publicly flirting with the SEC if they had quiet assurances that they were being seriously considered by the Big Ten. I suppose you could argue, it is an attempt to force the Big 10's hand, but they don't strike me as an organization that is easily strong armed.
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I do think the SEC is the preferred conference but I don't think UNC would outright tell the B1G no. They will go for the best deal
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If this were about academics I guess I could see Virginia and UNC to the Big. But athletics I don’t see. Especially football. Although the Big has not always gone for big time athletic programs (see Rutgers and Maryland) they mostly have recently. If you were going to go for an academic institution why leave Berkley or Stanford when creating a west coast branch. USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington are major college football brands. UNC is a basketball brand but hasn’t won an ACC football title in 45 years. Virginia has a tie 30 years ago and another tie in 1989. That is the extend of Cav football “dominance”. Nothing says Power football like that kind of performance! I mean it isn’t Rutgers level dominance but what is?
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If I were the Big 10 I would be quietly discussing a move with Texas. I know it would be controversial but it is really a better landing spot for them.
The conference that will end up being gone if
One of the 4 is gone will be the Big 12. They have no real value to cable or steaming TV. More then likely schools like Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado, Kansas, Kansas St, Texas A@M
Would join the ACC, because Notre Dame would probably stay.