Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[upstater]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

These are not schools that move the football needle. That is my point. As for my football knowledge I’d say I’ve been attending college football games for a lot longer than you have. I know all about it. As a B12 Kansas fan, you are severely overrating these schools as football schools. If UConn went into the B12 they win some games almost immediately. Heck even way back they beat schools like Iowa St and Baylor. See the lesser football schools, which the B12 is full of, as a dime a dozen. Fairly nondescript, indistinguishable from the others, tv ratings not so good

 

[Hogoff]

Swatbrick, or whatever his name is, is a Richard Cranium.

 

[upstater]

The Acc needs to treat this like a divorce. They need to think what’s best for the spouse who isn’t leaving. They have to think long term and can’t ignore the inevitable. Right now they are in a sexless marriage that is staying together for the sole purpose of waiting until the youngest graduates high school and leaves the house.
As irrelevant as UConn seems to be, they can be a key player. If the big 12 adds UConn and sdsu or Oregon state, the acc will be left with no options wants the cheating spouse actually files.

If I’m Wake Forest I’m milking this until 2036, and by that time who knows what the landscape will look like. I know I’m inside the power structure until then, and if the whole college sports world gets antsy for that 13 yr wait so they leave the NCAA, I know I will be grandfathered into the power structure. There is no possible way I risk my position with wishful thinking. As my Greek mom often says to me, sit on your eggs.

 

[CL82]

As to your second paragraph, didn't gloss over anything. Yes, Tobacco Road planned to take us and Syracuse because they thought we made more sense in terms of being a flagship and hoops. BC yelled and they said fine, Pitt is just as good. Not sure what that changes -- ACC acknowledged at the time they viewed Pitt and us as being very comparable.

… Because, it was never about a specific geographic area, and instead was about depleting the Big East.

I'm not sure why you are swimming upstream on this. The Boston College A.D. said "ESPN told us what to do". That's a quote from him within months of the raid. Clearly, ESPN was the driving force behind the raids which took the big east off the board as a BCS conference, which is you know was a precursor to the P5 which is a precursor to the soon to be A4.

But, whatever, it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other whether you acknowledge what is a pretty indisputable fact.

 

[CL82]

View attachment 90530

$50m deficit
Less $13M one time payment to KO,
Less $6M in unfunded pension contributions,
Less $7.5M in lost profits by playing in Hartford.

So actual operating deficit is something like $23.5M.

And the $23.5 million number includes paper tuition payments And the $23.5 million number includes paper tuition payments from the athletic department back to the academic side of the university at the full tuition cost, which is paid by virtually no one, from the athletic department back to the academic side of the University.

If we join the Big 12, and eliminated all those extraordinary items, but included the paper tuition payments, our university would be making a $26.5 million profit annually. Stop and think about that and how different it is from the narrative of "Connecticut is losing $50 million a year."

 

[HuskyHawk]

If I’m Wake Forest I’m milking this until 2036, and by that time who knows what the landscape will look like. I know I’m inside the power structure until then, and if the whole college sports world gets antsy for that 13 yr wait so they leave the NCAA, I know I will be grandfathered into the power structure. There is no possible way I risk my position with wishful thinking. As my Greek mom often says to me, sit on your eggs.

Totally agree. Nobody is getting out of the ACC without paying at least the value of those rights over that period + a kicker. OU and UT each paid about $50m for a single season. What's the price for 13 of them? Plus lost NCAA credits during that time as well.

 

[CL82]

Totally agree. Nobody is getting out of the ACC without paying at least the value of those rights over that period + a kicker. OU and UT each paid about $50m for a single season. What's the price for 13 of them? Plus lost NCAA credits during that time as well.

That's an interesting question. What happens to NCAA credits if a conference is dissolved. I would think they would just be divided equally among the members.

 

[huskymedic]

$50m deficit
Less $13M one time payment to KO,
Less $6M in unfunded pension contributions,
Less $7.5M in lost profits by playing in Hartford.

So actual operating deficit is something like $23.5M.

“Lost profit” or lost revenue/reduced expenses?

 

[CL82]

“Lost profit” or lost revenue/reduced expenses?

Lost "potential revenue".

Probably some combination of lost ticket sales, lost concession sales, and lost parking revenue, at least if I were computing it that is the approach I would take.

 

[RedStickHusky]

Nice bit of painless and meaningless virtue signaling from Swarbrick since they'll never get the votes; Where was Notre Dames concern for integrity when they let their OBE partners fall apart. For that matter, where is their offer to fully join the ACC with Stan/Cal? Thought so.

 

[huskymedic]

Lost "potential revenue".

View attachment 90539
Probably some combination of lost ticket sales, lost concession sales, and lost parking revenue, at least if I were computing it that is the approach I would take.

Have @ it… includes Letter from AD Dave:

UConn Athletics | 2023 Annual Report

UConn Huskies Annual ReportOur passion and commitment define UConn’s excellence. Our student-athletes, dedicated coaches, and die-hard fans have helped dist ...

annualreport.uconnhuskies.com

(Sure looks like a slide deck)

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's an interesting question. What happens to NCAA credits if a conference is dissolved. I would think they would just be divided equally among the members.

Yes, which is why none of them will be dissolved. Stanford, Cal, OSU and Wazzou are going to get the Pac credits. Not going to share them with whoever they add either.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[pj]

I guess one's view of these events are colored by who you think the ultimate decision-maker is. If you believe the ultimate decision maker was the ACC, then you are inclined to believe that this was in expansion move passively funded by ESPN. If you believe, as I do, and as the Boston College AD did at the time it was happening, that ESPN was the actual prime mover, then it follows that consolidation was the principal goal.

Again, the fact that an 11th hour swap of Pittsburgh in Connecticut was made at the 11th hour tells me that geography and demographics were not the principal driver. Consolidation was. Thus you can swap out Pittsburgh for Connecticut, dramatically different areas geographically and economically, at Boston College's whim because the principal driver was weakening the big east rather than a thoughtful expansion of territory.

Food for thought, because I know you do this kind of work, as a rule, how much say does the guy who is putting up the cash have in any transaction?

If the primary decision-maker was ESPN, then why didn't ESPN maximize the value of the ACCN by taking the schools who brought the most cable boxes (Rutgers and UConn) as opposed to regional schools (Syracuse and Pitt)? ESPN knows the cable business. Maybe they didn't really want the ACCN to be highly lucrative ... maybe they wanted to keep down the bargaining power of their own properties.

If they were trying to gut the Big East to keep down the bargaining power of universities, maybe they wanted a fractured realignment process which minimizes money to even the successful properties.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

A lot of that has to do with history, choices, and geography. Private universities dominated the Northeast (outside of Penn St) in the past both from a football and support perspective – Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc. State schools such as UConn, Rutgers and the SUNY’s have only risen in people’s perception and support in the last 30 or so year. In addition, It’s just a 4-hour drive from Storrs to Syracuse or 90-minute drive from Storrs to Chestnut Hill. In many states in the Midwest, West and South, its 4 to 5 hours just to get to the next metro area and there are many fewer choices (Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc.). Not to mention, many of those college do not have a nearby pro team or teams to compete with for fans’ dollars. Given time, support, and a few winning seasons, I have no doubt UConn football would be competitive with many of these so-called Tier 2/3/4 schools.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Tweeter isn't key, but the content is. UConn was not just being played to lure the corner schools.

 

[CL82]

Have @ it… includes Letter from AD Dave:

UConn Athletics | 2023 Annual Report

UConn Huskies Annual ReportOur passion and commitment define UConn’s excellence. Our student-athletes, dedicated coaches, and die-hard fans have helped dist ...

annualreport.uconnhuskies.com

(Sure looks like a slide deck)

Yes, it does look like a slide deck doesn't it?

Here's the answer:

 

[HuskyHawk]

A lot of that has to do with history, choices, and geography. Private universities dominated the Northeast (outside of Penn St) in the past both from a football and support perspective – Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc. State schools such as UConn, Rutgers and the SUNY’s have only risen in people’s perception and support in the last 30 or so year. In addition, It’s just a 4-hour drive from Storrs to Syracuse or 90-minute drive from Storrs to Chestnut Hill. In many states in the Midwest, West and South, its 4 to 5 hours just to get to the next metro area and there are many fewer choices (Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc.). Not to mention, many of those college do not have a nearby pro team or teams to compete with for fans’ dollars. Given time, support, and a few winning seasons, I have no doubt UConn football would be competitive with many of these so-called Tier 2/3/4 schools.

I agree with all of that. I'm not worried about UConn competing on the field. We've shown we can step up. I don't get why people here throw stones and try to tear down somebody like K-State, which was absolutely the worst D1 program ever, and built itself into a consistently ranked program with a strong following.

The hardest part for UConn is building that culture where people will make those drives, where they will prioritize the game over other things on fall weekends. We aren't close to that, so it's a bit ridiculous to insult a school like Iowa State that does have that. One reason I so badly wanted UConn in a "P" conference is because I think many of our fickle fans won't take the program seriously until it is.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

“Lost profit” or lost revenue/reduced expenses?

It may be an oversimplification but profits should equal revenue less expenses.

 

[businesslawyer]

Swatbrick, or whatever his name is, is a Richard Cranium.

Well, that certainly added to the intelligent analysis of these matters. Especially as the quote that caused your reaction is 100% accurate.

 

[CL82]

It may be an oversimplification but profits should equal revenue less expenses.

Take a look at the post at my post above. And what they are trying to do is quantify the cost of playing in Hartford which consists of both and additional expense element and a lost revenue element.

Another interesting way to view these fax is that but for Connecticut being a captive tenant this CDRA's's annual 2 1/2 million dollar loss would be an annual 6 1/2 million dollar loss. As a frequently have said on this board, there is no logical reason in the world why the majority of the CDRA's annual operating loss needs to be hidden in the athletic department budget. When UConn plays to lease at the XL Center, the money comes from the state to the university to the athletic department to the CDRA's and then back to the state. If the state really wants the University to play in a state owned facility rather than on campus to bolster Hartford economy, isn't it more logical simply not to have Connecticut charged for the use of the XL Center? Either way, the state foots the bill, and by not charging Connecticut are athletic departments balance sheet is improved by not including what is a de facto subsidy from the state of Connecticut to the city of Hartford.

 

[CL82]

If the primary decision-maker was ESPN, then why didn't ESPN maximize the value of the ACCN by taking the schools who brought the most cable boxes (Rutgers and UConn) as opposed to regional schools (Syracuse and Pitt)? ESPN knows the cable business. Maybe they didn't really want the ACCN to be highly lucrative ... maybe they wanted to keep down the bargaining power of their own properties.

If they were trying to gut the Big East to keep down the bargaining power of universities, maybe they wanted a fractured realignment process which minimizes money to even the successful properties.

Because the endgame was taking the big east off the board as the equivalent of a P5 conference. ESPN is already on the first tier of every cable provider at a significant premium, something like seven or eight dollars per subscriber the last time I looked which was many years ago.

 

[Storrs South]

Yes, it does look like a slide deck doesn't it?

Here's the answer:
View attachment 90540
View attachment 90541

This I do not get: why not change to the Villanova model where it isn't a 50/50 split but more like 75/25.

Throw any marquee game over the break + one additional non break marquee game + cupcake during finals & break (4 games total) to Hartford. The rest on campus which should be about 13. Of course that Hartford package you couldn't sell for as much as Gampel, but are they afraid about losing season ticket holder revenue? Because if that's the case then the $7.5 million figure doesn't account for that.

For this season I could see something like:
XL: Providence, Creighton, Seton Hall + cupcake during break (let's say Boston University)
Gampel: Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown, Xavier, DePaul, Butler + remaining cupcakes during semester

This is well balanced and games like DePaul and Butler (assuming during semester) don't need to be in Hartford. If you want more big games go to Gampel, but if you are OK with a few you can get a little exposure in Hartford. This also is more student friendly and builds a better campus environment and student interest. First XL game wouldn't be until December, which maybe you throw one cupcake early on there just to get people into basketball mode.

End of day, they need a better deal with Hartford in terms of money and scheduling priority.

 

[CL82]

This I do not get: why not change to the Villanova model where it isn't a 50/50 split but more like 75/25.

Throw any marquee game over the break + one additional non break marquee game + cupcake during finals & break (4 games total) to Hartford. The rest on campus which should be about 13. Of course that Hartford package you couldn't sell for as much as Gampel, but are they afraid about losing season ticket holder revenue? Because if that's the case then the $7.5 million figure doesn't account for that.

For this season I could see something like:
XL: Providence, Creighton, Seton Hall + cupcake during break (let's say Boston University)
Gampel: Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown, Xavier, DePaul, Butler + remaining cupcakes during semester

This is well balanced and games like DePaul and Butler (assuming during semester) don't need to be in Hartford. This also is more student friendly and builds a better campus environment and student interest. First XL game wouldn't be until December, which maybe you throw one cupcake early on there just to get people into basketball mode.

End of day, they need a better deal with Hartford in terms of money and scheduling priority.

Alternatively, charge Connecticut whatever the fix cost is to open up Gampel and give it a piece of concessions and parking revenue. If you do that then it almost ends up being an economic breakeven for Connecticut to play in Hartford or in Gampel.

 

[RedStickHusky]

How much could that 7.5 million off-set on-campus construction? Because, honestly, paying rent, does sort of feed the "they're not big time" argument.

 

[djct1999]

If I’m Wake Forest I’m milking this until 2036, and by that time who knows what the landscape will look like. I know I’m inside the power structure until then, and if the whole college sports world gets antsy for that 13 yr wait so they leave the NCAA, I know I will be grandfathered into the power structure. There is no possible way I risk my position with wishful thinking. As my Greek mom often says to me, sit on your eggs.

Yeah, I am sure thats what a school like Wake Forest will do. However, to just wait it out to see what the landscape might look like isnt that sound a strategy for survival. True, no one knows but its pretty clear where this is heading. For a school like Wake Forest, it means the end. So while I would try like hell to keep the GOR in tact, I would also think of value adds to make sure I am part of the conversation 13 years from now. The Big 12 made a move. Right now, assuming the magnificant 7 or even 4 leave after the gor, the Big 12 will survive and the ACC wont. That doesnt help Wake Forest.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

This I do not get: why not change to the Villanova model where it isn't a 50/50 split but more like 75/25.

Philadelphia doesn't need Villanova to play in Wells Fargo to support the city's economy. Additionally, as the 76er's and Flyers play there during what is Nova's basketball season, there are likely a limited number of available dates that would correspond to Nova's schedule.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The Tweeter isn't key, but the content is. UConn was not just being played to lure the corner schools.

So @GoKU was right. I also said as much. We were #14 and then Friday morning it all went south.

Thank you B1G you greedy POS for running it for many schools including all the ones in the PAC that got screwed. You could not wait a few more years to get Oregon and Washington. It won't make a lick of difference, but many schools are paying it still for all the blood you spilled.

 

[king conn]

Because the endgame was taking the big east off the board as the equivalent of a P5 conference. ESPN is already on the first tier of every cable provider at a significant premium, something like seven or eight dollars per subscriber the last time I looked which was many years ago.

I could be wrong here, but isn't it true there wasn't even an ACC network when all this took place?

 

[Skiblets]

The Tweeter isn't key, but the content is. UConn was not just being played to lure the corner schools.

It’s over Johnny. And it ends with the biggest kick in the nuts of them all….and that’s saying something