Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Kolumbo]

A friend's son starts at Oregon next month. Total in-state cost $40,000. Imagine it's similar for Oregon State. Wazzou sounds like a bargain.

That sounds like out of state tuition.

 

[JeepCSC]

That sounds like out of state tuition.

Virginia also has crazy in-state tuition, probably around $40,000 depending on your major. Double what it is at UNC. All depends on how well the state funds it's institutions.

 

[Kolumbo]

Virginia also has crazy in-state tuition, probably around $40,000 depending on your school. Double what it is at UNC. All depends on how well the state funds it's institutions.

Where are you guys seeing these tuition numbers? I don't think any large state school is charging $40k, nevermind $20k, for in-state tuition.

 

[huskymedic]

Really good article. So glad we’re going on the offensive to finally shape the narrative ourselves

Shortcut <<

 

[JeepCSC]

Where are you guys seeing these tuition numbers? I don't think any large state school is charging $40k, nevermind $20k, for in-state tuition.

https://sfs.virginia.edu/estimated-undergraduate-cost-attendance-2022-2023

Tuition room and board for first-year College of Arts would be $36k. School of Engineering First Year would be $46k.

Strictly looking at tuition, I think Engineering's $25k is the high end.

 

[upstater]

they arent adding uconn - ever

That's not what is going on.

They can't add UConn with this much time left in the GOR because they are looking for votes to break the GOR. They know UConn would be aligned against that since the schools that would favor UConn are definitely not FSU and Clemson.

The closer you get to the end of the GOR, the more these votes begin to matter much much less.

I bet the prospect of additions to the league is being resisted by the northeast schools plus Wake Forest and Georgia Tech, Louisville as well.

We have to remember that the ACC has split allegiances and that this makes agreement on added members difficult.

 

[UConnJim]

Disagree. At the time it was taken, there was an argument that, over an extended period of time, it was the second (to PSU) best football program in the Northeast and the best basketball program in the Northeast. Regardless of whether Syracuse “owns” a material TV market, it was a perfectly rational move to extend the ACC’s brand north from Maryland.

I disagree. Syracuse basketball was clearly the #1 or #2 program in the Northeast at the time, but it was pretty clear that Syracuse football was in a LT decline. In the 5 seasons before they got an ACC invite, they were 21-40 overall and 8-27 in the Big East.

Dino Babers in 7 years at Syracuse is 36-48 overall and 19-39 in the ACC. Sure, they had one good year, but the decline was in place before Babers got there. I think the biggest problem that Syracuse football has is that they don't attract the top Northeastern talent anymore. In the old days, many of those recruits were overlooked, but now they are not and they are going to the Big 10, SEC, and Notre Dame.

 

[upstater]

View attachment 90530

The pension liability is one thing that UConn could rightly complain about. But... every school is liable to pay for raises. Dont understand why that would need to be pointed out as an increased expense. I mean, Hurley got a raise; the state isn't paying for that.

 

[JeepCSC]

The only program the ACC schools would admit without hesitation at this moment is Notre Dame or someone that ensured Notre Dame agreed to come in. There just isn't any money to be found otherwise.

 

[UConnJim]

That's not what is going on.

They can't add UConn with this much time left in the GOR because they are looking for votes to break the GOR. They know UConn would be aligned against that since the schools that would favor UConn are definitely not FSU and Clemson.

The closer you get to the end of the GOR, the more these votes begin to matter much much less.

I bet the prospect of additions to the league is being resisted by the northeast schools plus Wake Forest and Georgia Tech, Louisville as well.

We have to remember that the ACC has split allegiances and that this makes agreement on added members difficult.

I don't think this is correct. The rumors are that the biggest opposition to adding Stanford and Cal is coming from the football schools for a variety of reasons.

If you step back, there are 2 reasons why the ACC would expand:

1) Increased payout per school.

2) Prepare for the inevitable defection of schools in the future.

Stanford and Cal won't increase payout per school and add travel costs. The football schools don't care about the ACC LT and I doubt Stanford/Cal would stay in the ACC LT anyway.

As for UConn, we won't increase the payout per school unless we join for no payout, but we would help with #2 and I have a hard time believing that the ACC would be so stupid to allow UConn to go to the Big 12.

 

[upstater]

I don't think this is correct. The rumors are that the biggest opposition to adding Stanford and Cal is coming from the football schools for a variety of reasons.

If you step back, there are 2 reasons why the ACC would expand:

1) Increased payout per school.

2) Prepare for the inevitable defection of schools in the future.

Stanford and Cal won't increase payout per school and add travel costs. The football schools don't care about the ACC LT and I doubt Stanford/Cal would stay in the ACC LT anyway.

As for UConn, we won't increase the payout per school unless we join for no payout, but we would help with #2 and I have a hard time believing that the ACC would be so stupid to allow UConn to go to the Big 12.

I see the opposite going on.

The one big thing the minnows will have to protect is the GOR. At all costs. Cal and Stanford are not going to bring them any financial protection. The WV guy is speculating that expansion is opposed by FSU and Clemson. I'm wondering why they would oppose it. Those 2 schools are not EVER going to get the minnows to agree to throw their financial future away. It makes no sense. The best FSU could do is to shake things up and hope for a break.

 

[HuskyHawk]

???
Iowa St, Kansas St, Kansas football, WV a state w/ 1.5m people? Not to mention the 3 AAC adds.

You really don't get college football do you?

 

[upstater]

Tuition in the state of Washington is a lot cheaper than in Connecticut. UConn in-state is $19k so yeah, let them pay.

CR really sucks but I don't feel bad for any schools who are jumping ship or jumping into the frozen ocean waters. Not one program has been shafted as much as UConn has.

The prospect of students going into debt that will triple over the life of their loans to pay for what's happened is truly an ethical question. And administrators just saying, Yep, the students will pay for all this!! Well, that's something too.

 

[upstater]

You really don't get college football do you?

Explain what there is to get.

 

[djct1999]

The Acc needs to treat this like a divorce. They need to think what’s best for the spouse who isn’t leaving. They have to think long term and can’t ignore the inevitable. Right now they are in a sexless marriage that is staying together for the sole purpose of waiting until the youngest graduates high school and leaves the house.
As irrelevant as UConn seems to be, they can be a key player. If the big 12 adds UConn and sdsu or Oregon state, the acc will be left with no options wants the cheating spouse actually files.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Where are you guys seeing these tuition numbers? I don't think any large state school is charging $40k, nevermind $20k, for in-state tuition.

Just Tuition or Tuition, fees and room and board. Because that's the number that matters. UConn is almost $35k. 2023-2024 Direct Costs and Cost of Attendance | Office of Student Financial Aid Services

 

[HuskyHawk]

Explain what there is to get.

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

 

[CL82]

Disagree. At the time it was taken, there was an argument that, over an extended period of time, it was the second (to PSU) best football program in the Northeast and the best basketball program in the Northeast. Regardless of whether Syracuse “owns” a material TV market, it was a perfectly rational move to extend the ACC’s brand north from Maryland.

I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as "consolidation." The principal value wasn't bringing in the coveted upstate New York market, it was absolutely part of a plant gut the Big East. The "value" from ESPN's perspective, since it already owned the rights to Syracuse games in the big east, was "consolidation". It was a concerted effort to take teams from the big east to "relegate" so that it was no longer entitled to a BCS level payment from them. I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as consolidation. Consider have the original plan was to bring in Syracuse and Connecticut, which would be consistent with the notion that this was an attempt for landgrab in the New York metro area, but when BC you petulantly decided it "wanted to be the New England school" the conference and ESPN, who the BC AD admitted it was running the show, pivoted to Pittsburgh without blinking an eye. I think about whether that is more consistent with an attempt to own the New York metro area, or an attempt to gut the Big East. It didn't matter which school was taken, as long as it depleted the big east conference's inventory of schools.

 

[Kolumbo]

The prospect of students going into debt that will triple over the life of their loans to pay for what's happened is truly an ethical question. And administrators just saying, Yep, the students will pay for all this!! Well, that's something too.

It's simply a choice. I know many exceptional people who got their degrees from CCSU.

 

[Exit 4]

As for UConn, we won't increase the payout per school unless we join for no payout, but we would help with #2 and I have a hard time believing that the ACC would be so stupid to allow UConn to go to the Big 12.

To that end- yes- I think this conversation is happening with the ACC to add us. Otherwise the B12 will be landing in their backyard soon - further establishing themselves as #3. Let’s see what happens this fall.

 

[Urcea]

To that end- yes- I think this conversation is happening with the ACC to add us. Otherwise the B12 will be landing in their backyard soon - further establishing themselves as #3. Let’s see what happens this fall.

I think we really need to sweep NC State, Duke, and BC or at the very least win the latter two. I like that we have so many ACC games scheduled - winning them continually will signal we can be competitive in that league

 

[businesslawyer]

I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as "consolidation." The principal value wasn't bringing in the coveted upstate New York market, it was absolutely part of a plant gut the Big East. The "value" from ESPN's perspective, since it already owned the rights to Syracuse games in the big east, was "consolidation". It was a concerted effort to take teams from the big east to "relegate" so that it was no longer entitled to a BCS level payment from them. I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as consolidation. Consider have the original plan was to bring in Syracuse and Connecticut, which would be consistent with the notion that this was an attempt for landgrab in the New York metro area, but when BC you petulantly decided it "wanted to be the New England school" the conference and ESPN, who the BC AD admitted it was running the show, pivoted to Pittsburgh without blinking an eye. I think about whether that is more consistent with an attempt to own the New York metro area, or an attempt to gut the Big East. It didn't matter which school was taken, as long as it depleted the big east conference's inventory of schools.

I agree to the extent that extending the ACC's football into the NE and killing off BE football are really two sides of the same coin. But if you ignore Syracuse's traditional regional strength (regardless of how far the Greg Robinson years set them back moving forward), they could have taken Rutgers and UConn in the first place. If you were executing the ACC's strategy, the taking of Syracuse was appropriate to "get into" (not "own") the NY market, which is all I said in the first place.

 

[Travelman6]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

Shocked Bama is 3, would think they'd have amazing tailgating.

 

[CL82]

I agree to the extent that extending the ACC's football into the NE and killing off BE football are really two sides of the same coin. But if you ignore Syracuse's traditional regional strength (regardless of how far the Greg Robinson years set them back moving forward), they could have taken Rutgers and UConn in the first place. If you were executing the ACC's strategy, the taking of Syracuse was appropriate to "get into" (not "own") the NY market, which is all I said in the first place.

I guess one's view of these events are colored by who you think the ultimate decision-maker is. If you believe the ultimate decision maker was the ACC, then you are inclined to believe that this was in expansion move passively funded by ESPN. If you believe, as I do, and as the Boston College AD did at the time it was happening, that ESPN was the actual prime mover, then it follows that consolidation was the principal goal.

Again, the fact that an 11th hour swap of Pittsburgh in Connecticut was made at the 11th hour tells me that geography and demographics were not the principal driver. Consolidation was. Thus you can swap out Pittsburgh for Connecticut, dramatically different areas geographically and economically, at Boston College's whim because the principal driver was weakening the big east rather than a thoughtful expansion of territory.

Food for thought, because I know you do this kind of work, as a rule, how much say does the guy who is putting up the cash have in any transaction?

 

[Exit 4]

I think we really need to sweep NC State, Duke, and BC or at the very least win the latter two. I like that we have so many ACC games scheduled - winning them continually will signal we can be competitive in that league

Just play competitive - single possession type final scores and have an engaged crowd on hand. The crowd is just as important.