Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 287 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

gioff2323 said:
That is based on the assumption that the break offs will continue with the conference approach. Why not create a league of X number of teams, like pros, and then just create divisions? What’s value of lifting and loading conferences into brave new world?
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This is just my opinion, but I think there's tremendous historical value to conference affiliation, granted with realignment, that tradition has erroded a bit, but rivalries like the keg of nails or little brown jug still mean something.

I also think that these football games spill into other NCAA sports. It's hard for me to see college football minus conference affiliation. I see your point, and it makes a kot of sense because it's a business, but I hope conference affiliation remains a part of college football
 
CL82 said:
Established branding.
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Agree. That branding matters a lot.

Also, professional leagues, like the NFL, are the business. The NFL grants franchises. Those franchises have limited autonomy. Each collegiate conference is made up of 8 to 16 independent businesses that choose to work/ally together. The structure is completely different.
 
Can conferences mean as much with the super differences in talent coming with NIL?
 
billybud said:
Can conferences mean as much with the super differences in talent coming with NIL?
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I think that's exactly the right question and I would extend it even further to encompass much of what is currently top level college athletics.

If a respectable football program like BC which probably will not be able to run an NIL program to compete with say Notre Dame or Clemson, does it make sense for them to try to continue to compete at that level? If the talent gap is so large and continuous, what interest is there in the competition?
 
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CAtlantic said:
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This seems like big news to me. The university is a top ranked public and has a $4 billion endowment. It has all the resources and would join Bi1G Hockey.

"... as has been well documented, college athletics is now existing in an incredibly fluid, dynamic environment, including Alston awards, NIL, and student-athlete employment rights. We are investing heavily in new benefits for student-athletes, which increases the marginal cost associated with any new sport offerings. Such intense disruption has created ambiguity about the future, and we believe it unwise for Illinois Athletics to expand our sport model in such an uncertain environment."

fightingillini.com

Illinois Athletics Discontinues Exploration of Men’s Ice Hockey - University of Illinois Athletics

The University of Illinois Division of Intercollegiate Athletics has concluded its exploration of Division I men's ice hockey and, barring an unforeseen change,
fightingillini.com fightingillini.com
 
billybud said:
Can conferences mean as much with the super differences in talent coming with NIL?
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With NIL, nothing has really changed with the competitive environment except players are going to be paid which creates new problems for schools. Yes, there will be one offs like Pitt's star WR potentially transferring to USC or Alabama, but there hasn't been widespread movement of top players from one school to another. Also, a school like BC has never competed for recruits with Alabama, Florida, USC, Texas, LSU,..., so that hasn't changed. Plus, in the last 20 years, 10 schools have finished the year ranked #1 and all of them will be high NIL programs in the current environment: Alabama. Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida St., Georgia, LSU, Ohio St., Texas, USC. And, there are plenty of football players to go around. For example, only 1 QB can start on a team, so top rated QBs will be always be available like they always have been, although the portal has made transferring easier. In the last 7 NFL drafts these 3 schools have had the most QBs drafted with 3: North Dakota St., Oklahoma, Western Kentucky.
 
Take a look at USC....

They took Caleb William's, Oklahoma's starting QB, they took Addison, Pitt's Bilitnikoff awarded WR, they took Travis Dye who rushed for 1271 yards at Oregon...playmakers...and they loaded up on defenders.
 
billybud said:
Take a look at USC....

They took Caleb William's, Oklahoma's starting QB, they took Addison, Pitt's Bilitnikoff awarded WR, they took Travis Dye who rushed for 1271 yards at Oregon...playmakers...and they loaded up on defenders.
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Not really good examples. Williams followed his head coach and offensive guru, Lincoln Riley, to USC. Dye’s head coach bolted to Miami and it is not a done deal that Addison goes to USC. And, USC lost 2 top QBs to the portal due to the coaching change.
 
I sense that some folks are hoping that NIL and the change in transfer rules will not have a dramatic impact on college athletics as we know it (or knew it). I just don't see how that can be the case. NIL will provide certain programs with the tool it needs to use money as the lever to attract the best talent either through recruiting or the transfer portal. It will be as simple as that. Free agency......

.......and I know that is not the intent of NIL, but it has opened the door for programs to funnel money to recruits and transfers in a way that has heretofore not existed.
 
uconndogs said:
I sense that some folks are hoping that NIL and the change in transfer rules will not have a dramatic impact on college athletics as we know it (or knew it). I just don't see how that can be the case. NIL will provide certain programs with the tool it needs to use money as the lever to attract the best talent either through recruiting or the transfer portal. It will be as simple as that. Free agency......

.......and I know that is not the intent of NIL, but it has opened the door for programs to funnel money to recruits and transfers in a way that has heretofore not existed.
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uconndogs said:
I sense that some folks are hoping that NIL and the change in transfer rules will not have a dramatic impact on college athletics as we know it (or knew it). I just don't see how that can be the case. NIL will provide certain programs with the tool it needs to use money as the lever to attract the best talent either through recruiting or the transfer portal. It will be as simple as that. Free agency......

.......and I know that is not the intent of NIL, but it has opened the door for programs to funnel money to recruits and transfers in a way that has heretofore not existed.
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The top programs are already attracting the best talent. For example, the top BC football recruit in 2022 would have been the 3rd worst recruit at Alabama. The top Syracuse football recruit would be the lowest rated recruit at Alabama. How does NIL change that?

And, look at the portal. There isn't enough playing time at the top schools that are loaded with talent so the top P5 teams are the ones SUPPLYING the talent, not taking it. Look at these numbers:

Alabama has taken 5 transfers and lost 20 transfers.
Clemson has taken 1 transfer and lost 11 transfers.
Georgia has taken 0 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Texas A&M has taken 2 transfers and lost 11 transfers.
Ohio St. has taken 3 transfers and lost 19 transfers.
Michigan has taken 2 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Texas has taken 5 transfers and lost 20 transfers.
Baylor has taken 2 transfers and lost 6 transfers.
Oklahoma State has taken 3 transfers and lost 16 transfers.
Florida State has taken 6 transfers and lost 19 transfers.
Maryland has taken 3 transfers and lost 22 transfers.
Penn State has taken 3 transfers and lost 14 transfers.
Notre Dame has taken 3 transfers and lost 13 transfers.

The above 12 have taken in 38 transfers and lost 195 transfers.

Where we have seen top P5 schools taking in transfers is at schools that have had a coaching change:

Florida has taken 6 transfers and lost 10 transfers.
LSU has taken 15 transfers and lost 10 transfers.
Oklahoma has taken 10 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
USC has taken 13 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Oregon has taken in 7 transfers and lost 15 transfers.
Miami has taken 11 transfers and lost 14 transfers.
 
UConnJim said:
The top programs are already attracting the best talent. For example, the top BC football recruit in 2022 would have been the 3rd worst recruit at Alabama. The top Syracuse football recruit would be the lowest rated recruit at Alabama. How does NIL change that?

And, look at the portal. There isn't enough playing time at the top schools that are loaded with talent so the top P5 teams are the ones SUPPLYING the talent, not taking it. Look at these numbers:

Alabama has taken 5 transfers and lost 20 transfers.
Clemson has taken 1 transfer and lost 11 transfers.
Georgia has taken 0 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Texas A&M has taken 2 transfers and lost 11 transfers.
Ohio St. has taken 3 transfers and lost 19 transfers.
Michigan has taken 2 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Texas has taken 5 transfers and lost 20 transfers.
Baylor has taken 2 transfers and lost 6 transfers.
Oklahoma State has taken 3 transfers and lost 16 transfers.
Florida State has taken 6 transfers and lost 19 transfers.
Maryland has taken 3 transfers and lost 22 transfers.
Penn State has taken 3 transfers and lost 14 transfers.
Notre Dame has taken 3 transfers and lost 13 transfers.

The above 12 have taken in 38 transfers and lost 195 transfers.

Where we have seen top P5 schools taking in transfers is at schools that have had a coaching change:

Florida has taken 6 transfers and lost 10 transfers.
LSU has taken 15 transfers and lost 10 transfers.
Oklahoma has taken 10 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
USC has taken 13 transfers and lost 12 transfers.
Oregon has taken in 7 transfers and lost 15 transfers.
Miami has taken 11 transfers and lost 14 transfers.
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Yes, after recruits at the top programs find out they won’t see the field they will transfer leaving the BETTER players at those top programs.

……and, players at lower level programs who prove to be capable of competing at the top programs will go into the portal with no requirement to sit. They’ll wait for the best deal (probably the most money).

That concentrates the best talent at the top programs.
 
uconndogs said:
Yes, after recruits at the top programs find out they won’t see the field they will transfer leaving the BETTER players at those top programs.

……and, players at lower level programs who prove to be capable of competing at the top programs will go into the portal with no requirement to sit. They’ll wait for the best deal (probably the most money).

That concentrates the best talent at the top programs.
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There are tons of examples of transfers who left top programs and went on to star at other programs. This past year, Cincy’s top RB, Jerome Ford, was a transfer from Alabama and drafted in the 5th round. And, what about Justin Fields (Georgia to Ohio St.) 1st round pick, Jalen Hurts (Alabama to Oklahoma) 2nd round pick, Wandale Robinson (Nebraska to Kentucky) 2nd round pick, Malik Willis (Auburn to Liberty) 3rd round, Joe Flacco ( Pitt to Delaware) 1st round, Josh McCown (SMU to Sam Houston St.) 3rd round.

As for teams, #4 Cincy had 7 P5 transfers on the roster this year, #16 Louisiana had 9 P5 transfers, #17 Houston had 14 P5 transfers, #24 Utah St. had 10 P5 transfers, #25 San Diego St. had 5 P5 transfers. SMU had 18 P5 transfers. The transfer portal has become a huge opportunity for schools to upgrade their talent. UConn under Edsall was just slow to adjust to the changing landscape.
 
UConnJim said:
There are tons of examples of transfers who left top programs and went on to star at other programs. This past year, Cincy’s top RB, Jerome Ford, was a transfer from Alabama and drafted in the 5th round. And, what about Justin Fields (Georgia to Ohio St.) 1st round pick, Jalen Hurts (Alabama to Oklahoma) 2nd round pick, Wandale Robinson (Nebraska to Kentucky) 2nd round pick, Malik Willis (Auburn to Liberty) 3rd round, Joe Flacco ( Pitt to Delaware) 1st round, Josh McCown (SMU to Sam Houston St.) 3rd round.

As for teams, #4 Cincy had 7 P5 transfers on the roster this year, #16 Louisiana had 9 P5 transfers, #17 Houston had 14 P5 transfers, #24 Utah St. had 10 P5 transfers, #25 San Diego St. had 5 P5 transfers. SMU had 18 P5 transfers. The transfer portal has become a huge opportunity for schools to upgrade their talent. UConn under Edsall was just slow to adjust to the changing landscape.
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I agree that the transfer portal is an opportunity for schools further down on the food chain to upgrade their talent, But I think that @uconndogs is correct when he says that the portal system will tend to concentrate talent at the top schools. Yes, lesser schools will have access to highly ranked players who did not pan out at the bigger schools, but lesser ranked kids who succeed at lower schools will also have the opportunity to move upward. I strongly doubt we will ever see a top kid who is successful at a top school, getting all the playing time he wants, etc., moving to a lesser school.

It reminds me of a conversation I heard between the top guys at two competing organizations. Steve was humble bragging about a new addition he had taken from Jim’s organization. Jim replied I’d like to think anyone who leaves us to go to you increases the average IQ of both organizations.
 
CL82 said:
I agree that the transfer portal is an opportunity for schools further down on the food chain to upgrade their talent, But I think that @uconndogs is correct when he says that the portal system will tend to concentrate talent at the top schools. Yes, lesser schools will have access to highly ranked players who did not pan out at the bigger schools, but lesser ranked kids who succeed at lower schools will also have the opportunity to move upward. I strongly doubt we will ever see a top kid who is successful at a top school, getting all the playing time he wants, etc., moving to a lesser school.

It reminds me of a conversation I heard between the top guys at two competing organizations. Steve was humble bragging about a new addition he had taken from Jim’s organization. Jim replied I’d like to think anyone who leaves us to go to you increases the average IQ of both organizations.
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I think its a wash.

Top kids will transfer in to top schools and displace players. Late bloomers and kids with personality conflicts at their current schools will transfer to whoever will give them the best opportunity to play.

The only schools that will lose are the ones who don't participate.
 
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CL82 said:
I agree that the transfer portal is an opportunity for schools further down on the food chain to upgrade their talent, But I think that @uconndogs is correct when he says that the portal system will tend to concentrate talent at the top schools. Yes, lesser schools will have access to highly ranked players who did not pan out at the bigger schools, but lesser ranked kids who succeed at lower schools will also have the opportunity to move upward. I strongly doubt we will ever see a top kid who is successful at a top school, getting all the playing time he wants, etc., moving to a lesser school.

It reminds me of a conversation I heard between the top guys at two competing organizations. Steve was humble bragging about a new addition he had taken from Jim’s organization. Jim replied I’d like to think anyone who leaves us to go to you increases the average IQ of both organizations.
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the numbers in post 9,058 don't really bear that out. Someone riding the pine at Alabama can certainly go to a lesser program and be a star. Guys who are playing great at a lesser program, I am not so sure so many of them are going to transfer to Alabama where they could risk being relegated to bench duty. Alabama can only have so many starters and needs ditch diggers too.
 
Kolumbo said:
the numbers in post 9,058 don't really bear that out. Someone riding the pine at Alabama can certainly go to a lesser program and be a star. Guys who are playing great at a lesser program, I am not so sure so many of them are going to transfer to Alabama where they could risk being relegated to bench duty. Alabama can only have so many starters and needs ditch diggers too.
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Yeah, I’m not sure that that is the conclusion that should be drawn from those numbers. They are entirely consistent with the wheat being separated from the chaff at top programs. I suppose as we get more history it will become more clear.

(Lol, that we are closing in on 10,000 key tweet posts.)
 
UConnJim said:
There are tons of examples of transfers who left top programs and went on to star at other programs. This past year, Cincy’s top RB, Jerome Ford, was a transfer from Alabama and drafted in the 5th round. And, what about Justin Fields (Georgia to Ohio St.) 1st round pick, Jalen Hurts (Alabama to Oklahoma) 2nd round pick, Wandale Robinson (Nebraska to Kentucky) 2nd round pick, Malik Willis (Auburn to Liberty) 3rd round, Joe Flacco ( Pitt to Delaware) 1st round, Josh McCown (SMU to Sam Houston St.) 3rd round.

As for teams, #4 Cincy had 7 P5 transfers on the roster this year, #16 Louisiana had 9 P5 transfers, #17 Houston had 14 P5 transfers, #24 Utah St. had 10 P5 transfers, #25 San Diego St. had 5 P5 transfers. SMU had 18 P5 transfers. The transfer portal has become a huge opportunity for schools to upgrade their talent. UConn under Edsall was just slow to adjust to the changing landscape.
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Yeah.....well, we're talking past each other on this. I don't see how the current system as it develops doesn't foster a further concentration of the best talent at the top programs.

I agree that second tier programs that are proactive will be able to improve their position relative to the rest of the second tier, but that has never been the point I was trying to make.
 
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uconndogs said:
Yeah.....well, we're talking past each other on this. I don't see how the current system as it develops doesn't foster a further concentration of the best talent at the top programs.

I agree that second tier programs that are proactive will be able to improve their position relative to the rest of the second tier, but that has never been the point I was trying to make.
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I'll leave you with one final point. I believe the top talent is already concentrated at the top of the P5. In the 2021 HS recruiting class, 69 out of the top 100 recruits went to 7 schools: Alabama, Ohio St., LSU, Georgia, USC, Oregon, and Florida. Of the Top 500 2021 recruits, 6 went to a G5 school or 1.2%. Of the 7 P5 schools, they had a combined 3 G5 transfers on their rosters in 2021. I believe the top schools will continue to dominate high level high school recruiting and at the margin take on transfers and those transfers will probably be from other P5 schools. I don't think NIL will change what is going on as the top schools will participate to maintain their position in college football.
 
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The portal is both good and bad depending on your perspective at the time. Let's take Pitt for example. A few months ago Kedon Slovis fell into their lap. The Portal is great. Flash forward and USC Boosters are flat out trying to buy Jordan Addison off of their roster. The Portal is the worst thing ever. LOL. Overall I think there is more benefit to G5 and lower Tier P5 Programs as there are more players than ever in the Portal that could potentially fill a hole on a roster with a college ready player. Fans will need to come to grips with cheering for the names on the front of the uniform not the back. If these teams get a breakout star, there's a good chance that someone higher up the food chain will lure them away with an NIL Deal. This sucks but it is what it is when the organization tasked with enforcing rules in college athletics decides to punt on the issue altogether.
 
superjohn said:
Don't really see how this impacts parity in college basketball.
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I could affect other sports than football..

...want to be good in baseball ? Put everyone on a full scholly. Not 11.7 scholarships spread amongst as many as 27 players...more $$$ to be competitive. Unlimited players, unlimited schollies if it comes to pass.

Soccer..men's capped at 9 currently...got money? Pay for 25.
 
billybud said:
I could affect other sports than football..

...want to be good in baseball ? Put everyone on a full scholly. Not 11.7 scholarships spread amongst as many as 27 players...more $$$ to be competitive. Unlimited players, unlimited schollies if it comes to pass.

Soccer..men's capped at 9 currently...got money? Pay for 25.
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Keep in mind the Title IX implications so whatever additional $$$ you were expecting to spend to be competitive; double it.
 
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