Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Patman]

More than OSU, Wazzu, Cal, Stanford

I see, UConn was accepted over them? I missed that.

Are you even a UConn fan?

if I weren't, what would change in the fact pattern?

I will say exactly what I am. I am a grad school alum. I am a sports fan but I will pick and choose. I am not a particular fan of basketball and only went to one game over 3 years and two over 5. The first one for free in a snowstorm the second as an exhibition involving the undergrad. This despite living across from Gampel for 3 years. I am not going to lie about the state of nature and state of play out of some sort of chauvinism.

I admit I'm mostly in this for football but I'm a sports fan in general. I also won't lie to myself about the fact pattern that's emerging in sports writ large. It is quite ugly. I would be more bullish if I thought warranted it. I think the disintegration of the first big east has served virtually none of the schools. Maybe Virginia Tech at best. I think football would be better off in ANY conference temporarily. I think basketball is in the best situation that can be managed at the moment. I think a healthy northeast based conference would be in UConn's best interest but that ship sailed long long ago and even BE basketball is a phantom of its former self but a respectable quality phantom.

I think the power 5/4/3/2 are going to fork (as in split) what remains of the college landscape for their own financial ends. They will end the basketball scene because it will make money as soon as they can ensure the remaining splinters can't raise a credible competitor. Finito. Done. There is no special elf magic that's going to hold basketball together just because. That's a religious belief. Is it a shame? Absolutely. Will it happen. Yes, in the next 10 years. Why is this going to happen? Because the Big 10 and the SEC already told you it is going to happen. You are not special. You will not be saved. So I say "you" instead of "we"... ok, that changes nothing about the future.

Maybe we'll see each other at the DC alumni event if UConn MBB makes a deep run. That changes nothing in terms of UConn's position in the greater sports landscape. Maybe something happens in the ACC crackup. That's just a different type of moving backwards because the long goal is to separate out basketball into the Power 3/2 because the game is that the power conferences get all the money and UConn sits on the outside. Maybe there's a delusion here that UConn will be welcomed in if we dropped football? That would be an interesting theory. Want to run with that one "UConn fan"?

 

[ZooCougar]

Absolutely nothing you have said in this thread has any sort of basis, your argument has no value

They were going to fully accept UConn as the 14th member if UA wasn't ready to leave, so yes it was mutually agreed upon and there was interest. We weren't used as "leverage"

You are literally making things up. 100%. You have a folklore understanding and perception of what went down.

 

[huskymedic]

Absolutely nothing you have said in this thread has any sort of basis, your argument has no value

They were going to fully accept UConn as the 14th member if UA wasn't ready to leave, so yes it was mutually agreed upon and there was interest. We weren't used as "leverage"

Folks on here have been through this exercise many times before (you can use the search function in upper right). To quote Yogi… it’s deja ve all over again for the veterans on this forum. Hell, @ZooCougar started this thread 11+ years ago!)

There was interest but also significant resistance to UConn - nothing was a gimme.

-> But a report out of Oklahoma this week indicates resistance to such a plan from within the conference.

Barry Tramel, a well-connected columnist for The Oklahoman, reported that there is “little interest” in adding UConn or Gonzaga among “campus decision-makers.”

Tramel quotes an unnamed Big 12 athletic director saying, “I don’t see any movement for a non-Power Five. I do not think there’s enough support to get them across the finish line.” <-

 

[UConnJim]

Read up.

This article doesn’t help your argument.

Here is the deal. UConn was being considered for the 14th spot to pair with Colorado. Arizona was expressing interest as well just in case the rest of the Pac 12 ran for the exits. When it was clear the Pac 12 was done, Arizona was in and Utah and Arizona State wanted in as well so the Big 12 went to 16 schools and there were no spots left for UConn.

 

[Patman]

Here is the deal. UConn was being considered for the 14th spot to pair with Colorado. Arizona was expressing interest as well just in case the rest of the Pac 12 ran for the exits. When it was clear the Pac 12 was done, Arizona was in and Utah and Arizona State wanted in as well so the Big 12 went to 16 schools and there were no spots left for UConn.

other way around.. ASU wanted in Arizona came along for the ride. UConn was the odd-number option and we're not even sure the B12 presidents would have even allowed that. Yomark was pressing for the UConn option had it ended in an odd number.

 

[ZooCougar]

Here is the deal. UConn was being considered for the 14th spot to pair with Colorado. Arizona was expressing interest as well just in case the rest of the Pac 12 ran for the exits. When it was clear the Pac 12 was done, Arizona was in and Utah and Arizona State wanted in as well so the Big 12 went to 16 schools and there were no spots left for UConn.

That was not the deal. Thats folklore.

And think about what you were saying. We were plan C.

And nobody was for implementing plan C.

This was not a thing that was going to happen.

Stop torturing yourself and embrace the truth.

 

[JMick]

That was not the deal. Thats folklore.

And think about what you were saying. We were plan C.

And nobody was for implementing plan C.

This was not a thing that was going to happen.

Stop torturing yourself and embrace the truth.

Some people just don't want to see the truth. Ignore button is looking real good right now

 

[ZooCougar]

Some people just don't want to see the truth. Ignore button is looking real good right now

People need to see the light and stop believing in mythology.

 

[CL82]

That was not the deal. Thats folklore.

And think about what you were saying. We were plan C.

And nobody was for implementing plan C.

This was not a thing that was going to happen.

Stop torturing yourself and embrace the truth.

Lol, why because you disagreed with it? Jim Mora , Benedict, and at least one big 12 a A.D. have all come out and stated that this was the story, but because it disagrees with your narrative it must be folklore?

Lol. OK then.

 

[ZooCougar]

Lol, why because you disagreed with it? Jim Mora , Benedict, and at least one big 12 a A.D. have all come out and stated that this was the story, but because it disagrees with your narrative it must be folklore?

Lol. OK then.

Speaking of Folkore. You’re practically Taylor Swift.

Did it ever even occur to you that this was spin?

This was not happening.

 

[How Sway?!]

I see, UConn was accepted over them? I missed that.


if I weren't, what would change in the fact pattern?

I will say exactly what I am. I am a grad school alum. I am a sports fan but I will pick and choose. I am not a particular fan of basketball and only went to one game over 3 years and two over 5. The first one for free in a snowstorm the second as an exhibition involving the undergrad. This despite living across from Gampel for 3 years. I am not going to lie about the state of nature and state of play out of some sort of chauvinism.

I admit I'm mostly in this for football but I'm a sports fan in general. I also won't lie to myself about the fact pattern that's emerging in sports writ large. It is quite ugly. I would be more bullish if I thought warranted it. I think the disintegration of the first big east has served virtually none of the schools. Maybe Virginia Tech at best. I think football would be better off in ANY conference temporarily. I think basketball is in the best situation that can be managed at the moment. I think a healthy northeast based conference would be in UConn's best interest but that ship sailed long long ago and even BE basketball is a phantom of its former self but a respectable quality phantom.

I think the power 5/4/3/2 are going to fork (as in split) what remains of the college landscape for their own financial ends. They will end the basketball scene because it will make money as soon as they can ensure the remaining splinters can't raise a credible competitor. Finito. Done. There is no special elf magic that's going to hold basketball together just because. That's a religious belief. Is it a shame? Absolutely. Will it happen. Yes, in the next 10 years. Why is this going to happen? Because the Big 10 and the SEC already told you it is going to happen. You are not special. You will not be saved. So I say "you" instead of "we"... ok, that changes nothing about the future.

Maybe we'll see each other at the DC alumni event if UConn MBB makes a deep run. That changes nothing in terms of UConn's position in the greater sports landscape. Maybe something happens in the ACC crackup. That's just a different type of moving backwards because the long goal is to separate out basketball into the Power 3/2 because the game is that the power conferences get all the money and UConn sits on the outside. Maybe there's a delusion here that UConn will be welcomed in if we dropped football? That would be an interesting theory. Want to run with that one "UConn fan"?

Appreciate your honesty and candidness. Perhaps you are right and in 5-10 years D1 athletics is down to just the B1G and SEC, I don't think it'll happen but stranger things have happened.

What I will say tho, and what I have the biggest disagreement with you and Zoo, is the assumption that what led to realignment in the past is what will lead to realignment in the future.

The media landscape is changing, Fox, ESPN et al are creating standalone streaming products. Cable boxes and markets no longer carry the weight they used to. Media deals will now be based on how many people are willing to pay $50 a month to watch their teams play. Schools like Kansas, Duke, and yes even UConn, have enough fans to move the needle.

 

[Bonamassa]

I feel strongly both ways.

 

[JMick]

Speaking of Folkore. You’re practically Taylor Swift.

Did it ever even occur to you that this was spin?

This was not happening.

It's worse if they thought it was. There was a 1% chance that when Colorado left everyone else would have decided to stick together. The prisoners dilemma is taught in all UConn 1000 level econ courses. Maybe they should attend some.

 

[ZooCougar]

It's worse if they thought it was. There was a 1% chance that when Colorado left everyone else would have decided to stick together. The prisoners dilemma is taught in all UConn 1000 level econ courses. Maybe they should attend some.

Kristin Stewart in the Dry Fridays SNL skit was less clueless.

 

[CL82]

Speaking of Folkore. You’re practically Taylor Swift.

Did it ever even occur to you that this was spin?

This was not happening.

Sure, whenever ever other people who have firsthand knowledge disagree with what you would imagine to be the truth, they must be lying.

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Exit 4]

That was not the deal. Thats folklore.

And think about what you were saying. We were plan C.

And nobody was for implementing plan C.

This was not a thing that was going to happen.

Stop torturing yourself and embrace the truth.

That what went down as explained to me by two different sources. I have no reason to disbelieve them- they are not dreamers. And the story certainly fits well with what happened with football recruiting last spring- the staff whispering b12.

Now, was it always all a ruse to coax AZ? Yeah, that seems possible at this point. Not sure it will ever be known for sure.

 

[ScottVib]

comparing basketball to football revenues from the argument before the two-way conversation chewed through 3 pages:

The top 4 basketball earners (from that college raptor source):
Duke $47.8M
Syracuse $35.8M
North Carolina $33.2M
UConn $32.6M

Now their football revenue:
Duke $64.7M
North Carolina $55.6M
Syracuse $50.2M
UConn $18.4M

They've pretty much hit the top of the market for basketball, but even the top three basketball earners get between 60% & 67% more revenue from their football programs. The easiest way for UConn to address some of that inequity is find a path that eventually nets them more TV/conference revenue from football.

 

[Bongo Fury]

You’re out to lunch. Even the article above indicates that UConn was the backup plan of Arizona fell through.

We weren’t even plan B. More like alternate plan C.

Stop talking.

What I find sad is that these schools didn’t want to go to Big 12.

 

[huskymedic]

comparing basketball to football revenues from the argument before the two-way conversation chewed through 3 pages:

The top 4 basketball earners (from that college raptor source):
Duke $47.8M
Syracuse $35.8M
North Carolina $33.2M
UConn $32.6M

Now their football revenue:
Duke $64.7M
North Carolina $55.6M
Syracuse $50.2M
UConn $18.4M

They've pretty much hit the top of the market for basketball, but even the top three basketball earners get between 60% & 67% more revenue from their football programs. The easiest way for UConn to address some of that inequity is find a path that eventually nets them more TV/conference revenue from football.

Just a note - I’m pretty sure that the basketball revenue number for UConn is for both the MBB & WBB programs.

 

[ScottVib]

Just a note - I’m pretty sure that the basketball revenue number for UConn is for both the MBB & WBB programs.

I thought that might be the case.. as I couldn’t find any women’s sports broken out.. which ultimately eliminates another way to “make up” the “missing” non-basketball revenue

 

[ZooCougar]

What I find sad is that these schools didn’t want to go to Big 12.

Yeah. It was a consolation or a necessary evil.

And the PAC 12 had a bonkers year. You can’t tell me they couldn’t have declined the deal, and then gotten something better a few months later.

Much of this is driven by fear, cowardice, and jealousy.

I hate the SEC, but at least they have retained their core identity and that is part of their immense value.

 

[ZooCougar]

That what went down as explained to me by two different sources. I have no reason to disbelieve them- they are not dreamers. And the story certainly fits well with what happened with football recruiting last spring- the staff whispering b12.

Now, was it always all a ruse to coax AZ? Yeah, that seems possible at this point. Not sure it will ever be known for sure.

In order for it to happen for us, several things that were always going to happen needed to not happen.

Alas, it was not close. We were oceans away. Stop torturing yourself.

Plus it’s not even certain that the Big 12 members would have voted us in.

 

[History Geek]

All public statements (and private comments from UConn people to fans) indicate we were in the Big 12 until literally the night before. I think we were overall Plan B, but became more of a Plan A as the PAC 12 media negotiations dragged on. Then the B1G came in and blew up the PAC. I honestly think that was a very late development. Then the B12 had a blown up PAC and their Plan A.

Are Zoo et al be correct that there is a strong desire for some B12 institutions not to add UConn? Of course. Did it all unfold according to their plan, exactly as they thought it would? I don't think so. But it ended up they way they wanted.

Whatever. I'm more concerned about what this means moving forward. Does the addition of the corner schools last summer help Yormark convince the B12 membership to expand east next time? And if yes, would that include UConn? It may not. If the ACC blows up, we may not be more attractive than available brands. I think we are, but I am not a B12 president or chairman of a Board of Trustees. We will see.

 

[Patman]

I have never believed that UConn was the bait dangled to encourage the other schools to jump away. There may be some degree of truth to it but I've never seen it as a strong thing.

I've always seen it as the "awkward proviso" to stop an odd numbered configuration as well as an Eastern gambit on yormarks part

what i think is clear is that the b12 schools themselves were never really keen on the idea and may have only done so reluctantly

 

[Exit 4]

In order for it to happen for us, several things that were always going to happen needed to not happen.

Alas, it was not close. We were oceans away. Stop torturing yourself.

Plus it’s not even certain that the Big 12 members would have voted us in.

I don't understand you comment "stop torturing yourself" - why do you think I am tortured? The July 2023 B12 invite collapsed when AZ rolled in. Nothing more to it. We obviously disagree here about what went down, but I certainly don't feel tortured here. It is what it is. And yes, in retrospect, maybe Yormark always knew his efforts for UConn were just a ploy to push others. Colorado needed a willing pairing partner and we filled that rolled for a couple months until we didn't.