Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Exit 4]

They are like self appointed tin pot dictators. College sports is dumb.

There are times the last couple years when I have felt stupid for caring as much as I do. But then the off season comes, a new schedule comes into focus, some changes to the staff and the roster are made and then hope springs again… like clockwork.

 

[superjohn]

Of course they will. Once they freeze uconn out why would players come to connecticut?

They're going to create a basketball tournament and leave all the best basketball programs out of it. Okay, buddy.

 

[Patman]

If you've reduced the number of viable teams, you're still going to have to bring players in through the portal. Those players are not going to be coming anymore from the league's outside the new structure. Or very few of them will. They just won't have the support and training they used to have. One way to address that is to offer more scholarships, like they used to before the 85 player rule.

I thought so. No, that's incredibly tone deaf. Scholarships don't matter anymore and adding them doesn't actually do much. Its not going to stop a player on the lower end from going to Towson.

 

[Patman]

They're going to create a basketball tournament and leave all the best basketball programs out of it. Okay, buddy.

Yes, yes they will. In three years after that UConn will not matter. Why would players come if they can't play against the "best" on a regular basis.

edit: You are stuck thinking that you matter. Reality is, sorry to the basketball board, in a power 2 world you just don't. They will split off, next 5-10 years. UConn could be number 1 at the time. They'll just do it. Sure they can't do it today, but they'll do it as soon as they can.

 

[upstater]

I thought so. No, that's incredibly tone deaf. Scholarships don't matter anymore and adding them doesn't actually do much. Its not going to stop a player on the lower end from going to Towson.

I don't know why this is so difficult for you.

A Towson player doesn't get the support or training that a Florida player does.

So now if you limit the money to 36 schools, a lot more players are going to be outside the structures where they get support and training, and play and practice against top competition.

This makes for fewer good players available in the portal.

 

[Patman]

I don't know why this is so difficult for you.

A Towson player doesn't get the support or training that a Florida player does.

So now if you limit the money to 36 schools, a lot more players are going to be outside the structures where they get support and training, and play and practice against top competition.

This makes for fewer good players available in the portal.

You don't get it at all, when all players are getting a 300K nil then what is a scholarship?

 

[Hogoff]

You don't get it at all, when all players are getting a 300K nil then what is a scholarship?

Between 20 and 70K.

 

[superjohn]

Yes, yes they will. In three years after that UConn will not matter. Why would players come if they can't play against the "best" on a regular basis.

edit: You are stuck thinking that you matter. Reality is, sorry to the basketball board, in a power 2 world you just don't. They will split off, next 5-10 years. UConn could be number 1 at the time. They'll just do it. Sure they can't do it today, but they'll do it as soon as they can.

This is hilarious...

 

[upstater]

Between 20 and 70K.

And not all get even that.

 

[upstater]

You don't get it at all, when all players are getting a 300K nil then what is a scholarship?

It's a lot less.

Presumably they must be enrolled.

If they don't get a scholarship, then they're paying $70k at state schools, more at privates.

They end up in the red.

 

[UConnJim]

Yes, yes they will. In three years after that UConn will not matter. Why would players come if they can't play against the "best" on a regular basis.

edit: You are stuck thinking that you matter. Reality is, sorry to the basketball board, in a power 2 world you just don't. They will split off, next 5-10 years. UConn could be number 1 at the time. They'll just do it. Sure they can't do it today, but they'll do it as soon as they can.

You do realize that only 7 of this week's men's basketball Top 25 come from the P2?

 

[Rufus]

You do realize that only 7 of this week's men's basketball Top 25 come from the P2?

Let's see how much the rankings change in the coming years when the players are paid and NIL trickles down from football to basketball. It will be a living experiment to see what effect these things have on team performance.

 

[Gburyhusky]

Regarding the longer-term viability of the Big East, the fact that McDermott decided to extend with Creighton (and not take the Ohio State job) suggests that the league is strong and will remain "at the table" if (and it's a big if) there is some type of power grab by the football leagues. It's also been reported that Porter Moser will leave Oklahoma for DePaul.

 

[UConnJim]

Let's see how much the rankings change in the coming years when the players are paid and NIL trickles down from football to basketball. It will be a living experiment to see what effect these things have on team performance.

And 14 out of the top 25 in attendance are not in the P2. By the way football NIL has nothing to do with basketball NIL so I don't know what you are talking about. Can the media contracts pay players in the future. Absolutely, but we'll have to deal with that in the future and I think the basketball schools will step up and support their teams.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Let's see how much the rankings change in the coming years when the players are paid and NIL trickles down from football to basketball. It will be a living experiment to see what effect these things have on team performance.

Pretty much every case study of this has shown a football school will “pay” its backup WR more than any basketball player. By a good margin too.

 

[JMick]

Regarding the longer-term viability of the Big East, the fact that McDermott decided to extend with Creighton (and not take the Ohio State job) suggests that the league is strong and will remain "at the table" if (and it's a big if) there is some type of power grab by the football leagues. It's also been reported that Porter Moser will leave Oklahoma for DePaul.

At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if the people on this board who have been following realignment for a decade have a better handle on it than most coaches.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Regarding the longer-term viability of the Big East, the fact that McDermott decided to extend with Creighton (and not take the Ohio State job) suggests that the league is strong and will remain "at the table" if (and it's a big if) there is some type of power grab by the football leagues. It's also been reported that Porter Moser will leave Oklahoma for DePaul.

Who knows? Maybe he has an exit hatch if the BE gets relegated to second class citizenship?

 

[JohnFSilver]

Guys. UConn and Big East is just one big prisoners dilemma.

Ok, ACC wants two teams for basketball. They ask UConn and Villanova. UConn isn’t sure it wants to leave big east. ACC goes to St . John’s to grab nyc .
So. Essentially, becuase of that, you get an offer you go.

 

[uconnyankee]

After the basketball game, I open up the-boneyard and see I have 5 unread pages on the Key Tweets thread. So, I figured something might be up with conference realignment. But,...nope.

Thinking same thing…. Don’t even know what is being debated at this point.

 

[upstater]

Thinking same thing…. Don’t even know what is being debated at this point.

There has been recent discussion (as in, by the principals) of the P2 keeping most of the CFP money and the playoff berths, which has lead to speculation about the move to freeze out everyone except the P2. This is happening side-by-side with a discussion about expanding the NCAAT and limiting the amount of auto-berths for small conferences.

 

[UConnJim]

Guys. UConn and Big East is just one big prisoners dilemma.

Ok, ACC wants two teams for basketball. They ask UConn and Villanova. UConn isn’t sure it wants to leave big east. ACC goes to St . John’s to grab nyc .
So. Essentially, becuase of that, you get an offer you go.

Outside of the Big East no there is no example (with the exception of Notre Dame, but they have to play 5 football games per year) of a basketball only add to a P5 conference. Sure, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I think there is a much better chance of having football only conferences and then all other sports conferences. If that happens, I could see a couple of the current ACC schools moving to the Big East for all sports but football.

 

[uconnyankee]

Outside of the Big East no there is no example (with the exception of Notre Dame, but they have to play 5 football games per year) of a basketball only add to a P5 conference. Sure, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I think there is a much better chance of having football only conferences and then all other sports conferences. If that happens, I could see a couple of the

There has been recent discussion (as in, by the principals) of the P2 keeping most of the CFP money and the playoff berths, which has lead to speculation about the move to freeze out everyone except the P2. This is happening side-by-side with a discussion about expanding the NCAAT and limiting the amount of auto-berths for small conferences.

Thanks for clarity.

 

[Exit 4]

Well once this piece falls into place it seems like all attention goes back to FSU and then perhaps the BE media contract assuming the FSU situation doesn't go nuclear and create another cascade.

 

[Drew]

Anyone who follows MBB at all, even casually, knows the strength of the Big East. No one back then (or now) know what conference Boise or Tulane were/are in.

Anyone who follows MBB at all, even casually, knows the strength of the Big East. No one back then (or now) know what conference Boise or Tulane were/are in.

The strength of BE basketball comes down to UConn and Nova. The rest are inconsequential.

Amazing that people are somehow still confusing “league with some good basketball teams” with “leagues with written legislative power in NCAA bylaws that make all the money”. If you can’t see the difference (it has NOTHING to do with on field competition results), I don’t know what to tell you other than sorry for your future shock at what happens.

Realignment has never been about quality/deserving to be "in the club." It's been about what do you do for us financially. UConn's exclusion to this point should help demonstrate the point... basketball success doesn't matter and it's not about being "fraudulent" or being "credible." Similarly, you could've argued a football system without Boise in the early 2000s was fraudulent & how'd that work out for the Broncos?

People clutching to the argument that the Big East is too good to leave out, have missed the point Lew Perkins was trying to make when he first proposed upgrading the football program. It was needed to protect basketball, unfortunately they started too late and cut too many corners when realignment got hot. They continue to cut corners.. and the failure to develop football properly may ultimately doom basketball to a lower level of competition (unless UConn can find some life-raft).

Outside of UConn/Villanova the Big East is just a collection of schools under a decent Brand name. If you replace Butler with Dayton and there is no change with the value of the Big East (among networks, UConn fans may care but that an $8 will get you a Latte at Starbucks); replace Seton Hall with St. Bonaventure; Marquette with Loyola; Creighton with Rice and there is no change to the financial value of the Big East. It's value is driven by UConn, Villanova and the Big East name. The other schools are between "airable when they're good/ranked," "worth airing only when they play UConn/Nova" and "programming filler, tagged to the Big East name."

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

They’re not breaking away to drag DePaul and butler with them.

Those same people wanted UConn to CHOOSE the Big East over the Big 12 IF there was a choice to make. Therefore, those people like to pretend the Big East is something it is not. Despite their success, they're not an autonomy 5 conference. They're as powerless any other G5 league.

No one cares about the Big East schools not named UConn/Nova. Marquette and Creighton may be good now but those team successes tend to be cyclical or related to the head coach like Wichita State a few years back. No one is going to call the entire tournament "fraudulent" cause UConn and Nova got shafted. It will simply be seen as a consequence of change.

The fanbases are absolutely small and inconsequential compared to the teams that matter. Marquette probably has 1/10th (at best) of the fanbase of Wisconsin. Hell, most Marquette fans probably also cheer for Wisconsin football.

I’m a Nebraska fan by birth and still am- there’s a reason “Jayskers” exist. Maybe you went to Creighton or live in Omaha and like going to games but almost all of those people are also fans of NU. True Creighton only fans compared to NU is probably 1/25th the size of the fanbase.

I do agree with your second point- If these small privates went off the face of the Earth absolutely nobody would bat an eye. The public and general sports media has already held a funeral for and buried the Big East - hell ESPN made a damn documentary about it.

Nobody is saying there aren’t a few good basketball teams in the league. But to pretend like the tournament is somehow illegitimate if Providence and Xavier don’t have a chance to win it all is just silly and blind to all reality of who actually matters in college sports

What’s funny about this is if you go look at Big Ten and SEC hoops TV ratings to the Big East, those leagues blow the BE out of the water.

Thats the entire point. Those teams have such large fanbases that even if 5% of them care about hoops it means more than if 80% of Marquette fans do.

You can’t hold a basketball tournament without Kansas or Kentucky. You can absolutely do it without Providence and Butler. Hell, we already do it almost every year as is.

These posts from November are fun to look back on given the last 24 hours

 

[Drew]

Yes and no. I think the state will at least sustain the current level, which was increased when Mora was hired. We added a huge support staff that we had nothing of before which brought the program closer to modernity.

However private contributions MUST increase and I don’t think we have enough people who know how to do that on the scale football requires!

UConn fans have always looked to the state for money but on the stage of college sports; which is football, football and football. Private contributions are what fuels the machine.

Basketball is a small side dish and a much less complex and demanding projecting. For example the basketball team is the equivalent of one position group on the football team! Not being affiliated with a power conference isn’t a death sentence….

We don’t have lots big donors. But we do have a fanbase that we could potentially crowdsource from. So that is the strategy that must be executed.

UConn also needs Jim Mora to be a little more positive, get some more results on the field and tighten up his controllables to generate more momentum and reassure current givers and attract new ones.

When I look at where we are now. I am reminded why I preferred a steady hand like Al Golden who had a track record of success in fixing poorly performing programs with limited resources.

Btw- nice job with this. 5 months later we have “Storrs Central” popping up to do exactly what you outlined.