Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Exit 4]

As for UConn, we won't increase the payout per school unless we join for no payout, but we would help with #2 and I have a hard time believing that the ACC would be so stupid to allow UConn to go to the Big 12.

To that end- yes- I think this conversation is happening with the ACC to add us. Otherwise the B12 will be landing in their backyard soon - further establishing themselves as #3. Let’s see what happens this fall.

 

[Urcea]

To that end- yes- I think this conversation is happening with the ACC to add us. Otherwise the B12 will be landing in their backyard soon - further establishing themselves as #3. Let’s see what happens this fall.

I think we really need to sweep NC State, Duke, and BC or at the very least win the latter two. I like that we have so many ACC games scheduled - winning them continually will signal we can be competitive in that league

 

[businesslawyer]

I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as "consolidation." The principal value wasn't bringing in the coveted upstate New York market, it was absolutely part of a plant gut the Big East. The "value" from ESPN's perspective, since it already owned the rights to Syracuse games in the big east, was "consolidation". It was a concerted effort to take teams from the big east to "relegate" so that it was no longer entitled to a BCS level payment from them. I understand the argument you're making biz, but I disagree with it. That was never about "expansion" so much as consolidation. Consider have the original plan was to bring in Syracuse and Connecticut, which would be consistent with the notion that this was an attempt for landgrab in the New York metro area, but when BC you petulantly decided it "wanted to be the New England school" the conference and ESPN, who the BC AD admitted it was running the show, pivoted to Pittsburgh without blinking an eye. I think about whether that is more consistent with an attempt to own the New York metro area, or an attempt to gut the Big East. It didn't matter which school was taken, as long as it depleted the big east conference's inventory of schools.

I agree to the extent that extending the ACC's football into the NE and killing off BE football are really two sides of the same coin. But if you ignore Syracuse's traditional regional strength (regardless of how far the Greg Robinson years set them back moving forward), they could have taken Rutgers and UConn in the first place. If you were executing the ACC's strategy, the taking of Syracuse was appropriate to "get into" (not "own") the NY market, which is all I said in the first place.

 

[Travelman6]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

Shocked Bama is 3, would think they'd have amazing tailgating.

 

[CL82]

I agree to the extent that extending the ACC's football into the NE and killing off BE football are really two sides of the same coin. But if you ignore Syracuse's traditional regional strength (regardless of how far the Greg Robinson years set them back moving forward), they could have taken Rutgers and UConn in the first place. If you were executing the ACC's strategy, the taking of Syracuse was appropriate to "get into" (not "own") the NY market, which is all I said in the first place.

I guess one's view of these events are colored by who you think the ultimate decision-maker is. If you believe the ultimate decision maker was the ACC, then you are inclined to believe that this was in expansion move passively funded by ESPN. If you believe, as I do, and as the Boston College AD did at the time it was happening, that ESPN was the actual prime mover, then it follows that consolidation was the principal goal.

Again, the fact that an 11th hour swap of Pittsburgh in Connecticut was made at the 11th hour tells me that geography and demographics were not the principal driver. Consolidation was. Thus you can swap out Pittsburgh for Connecticut, dramatically different areas geographically and economically, at Boston College's whim because the principal driver was weakening the big east rather than a thoughtful expansion of territory.

Food for thought, because I know you do this kind of work, as a rule, how much say does the guy who is putting up the cash have in any transaction?

 

[Exit 4]

I think we really need to sweep NC State, Duke, and BC or at the very least win the latter two. I like that we have so many ACC games scheduled - winning them continually will signal we can be competitive in that league

Just play competitive - single possession type final scores and have an engaged crowd on hand. The crowd is just as important.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Disagree. At the time it was taken, there was an argument that, over an extended period of time, it was the second (to PSU) best football program in the Northeast and the best basketball program in the Northeast. Regardless of whether Syracuse “owns” a material TV market, it was a perfectly rational move to extend the ACC’s brand north from Maryland.

Huh? Best basketball program in the northeast? They announced they were leaving the year after we just won the 2011 title.

 

[shizzle787]

Really good article. So glad we’re going on the offensive to finally shape the narrative ourselves

This article highlights how our financial shortfall is not as bad as perceived. It's closer to 30 million than 55 million. Our fundraising department brought in almost $28 million in 2023. If we can get that number closer to $40 million, our deficit would be less than $20 million. We will be fine.

 

[Forte]

This article highlights how our financial shortfall is not as bad as perceived. It's closer to 30 million than 55 million. Our fundraising department brought in almost $28 million in 2023. If we can get that number closer to $40 million, our deficit would be less than $20 million. We will be fine.

What i get out of that article is that UConn is as likely to drop football due to not being in P5 as Wyoming is.

 

[businesslawyer]

I guess one's view of these events are colored by who you think the ultimate decision-maker is. If you believe the ultimate decision maker was the ACC, then you are inclined to believe that this was in expansion move passively funded by ESPN. If you believe, as I do, and as the Boston College AD did at the time it was happening, that ESPN was the actual prime mover, then it follows that consolidation was the principal goal.

Again, the fact that an 11th hour swap of Pittsburgh in Connecticut was made at the 11th hour tells me that geography and demographics were not the principal driver. Consolidation was. Thus you can swap out Pittsburgh for Connecticut, dramatically different areas geographically and economically, at Boston College's whim because the principal driver was weakening the big east rather than a thoughtful expansion of territory.

Food for thought, because I know you do this kind of work, as a rule, how much say does the guy who is putting up the cash have in any transaction?

Expansion required both ESPN and the ACC to be on board. I doubt ESPN told the ACC "you have to merge." I'm sure it pointed out the potential benefits, but those were all things any ACC school would have realized for itself. Recognize that the Syracuse--Pitt raid was not the first raid. When the took Miami, BC and VPI originally, my guess is they thought they had relegated the Big East to minor league status then. How competitive the new conference with Louisville, Cincy, UConn and USF quickly became wasn't what anyone was expecting. UCUEci

 

[CL82]

Expansion required both ESPN and the ACC to be on board. I doubt ESPN told the ACC "you have to merge." I'm sure it pointed out the potential benefits, but those were all things any ACC school would have realized for itself. Recognize that the Syracuse--Pitt raid was not the first raid. When the took Miami, BC and VPI originally, my guess is they thought they had relegated the Big East to minor league status then. How competitive the new conference with Louisville, Cincy, UConn and USF quickly became wasn't what anyone was expecting. UCUEci

Well, as we saw in the big east, saying no to ESPN isn't conducive to a long life for a conference. Sure, the ACC had to agree, but ultimately ESPN was offering to make their annual distributions higher as long as they agreed to take big east teams. They didn't raid from any of their other properties.

I note that you glossed over the fact that the original plan for the second wave was Syracuse and Connecticut. It was only after BC expressed an objection because "wanted to be the only New England school" that they flipped to Pittsburgh. Again, actions mean things and these actions are indicative of a plan that required the removal of a two Big east schools, not the removal of schools in a specific location. That's kind of an important fact to gloss over.

 

[Forte]

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[Exit 4]

Crazy talk dream scenario: Cal+Stanford+ND+UConn. Look, if the ACC wants to counter balance the other power conf, its a good start.

And so will ND change course and commit to the ACC? If they believe in athletics + academics, its time to make a commitment.

 

[bendm]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

this seems like a very scientific study conducted by big game boomer.

 

[businesslawyer]

Well, as we saw in the big east, saying no to ESPN isn't conducive to a long life for a conference. Sure, the ACC had to agree, but ultimately ESPN was offering to make their annual distributions higher as long as they agreed to take big east teams. They didn't raid from any of their other properties.

I note that you glossed over the fact that the original plan for the second wave was Syracuse and Connecticut. It was only after BC expressed an objection because "wanted to be the only New England school" that they flipped to Pittsburgh. Again, actions mean things and these actions are indicative of a plan that required the removal of a two Big east schools, not the removal of schools in a specific location. That's kind of an important fact to gloss over.

As to your second paragraph, didn't gloss over anything. Yes, Tobacco Road planned to take us and Syracuse because they thought we made more sense in terms of being a flagship and hoops. BC yelled and they said fine, Pitt is just as good. Not sure what that changes -- ACC acknowledged at the time they viewed Pitt and us as being very comparable.

 

[upstater]

It's simply a choice. I know many exceptional people who got their degrees from CCSU.

???

 

[HuskyHawk]

this seems like a very scientific study conducted by big game boomer.

Doesn't matter. It's a perception. One that probably isn't that far off. The point is that those of us in the northeast are likely somewhat ignorant of the actual fan situation related to other schools and college football outside of the well known ones like Alabama, Michigan and Ohio State.

 

[upstater]

You talked about schools from lower population states, KU, K-State, Iowa-State, WVU, but all of those schools support the programs. They have lots of fans. State population doesn't matter. K-State and WVU in particular have a passionate fanbase that shows up. Iowa State too, and KU if they start winning again (which they are). Meanwhile, a high population state like NY has almost no support for college football at all.

These are not schools that move the football needle. That is my point. As for my football knowledge I’d say I’ve been attending college football games for a lot longer than you have. I know all about it. As a B12 Kansas fan, you are severely overrating these schools as football schools. If UConn went into the B12 they win some games almost immediately. Heck even way back they beat schools like Iowa St and Baylor. See the lesser football schools, which the B12 is full of, as a dime a dozen. Fairly nondescript, indistinguishable from the others, tv ratings not so good

 

[Hogoff]

Swatbrick, or whatever his name is, is a Richard Cranium.

 

[upstater]

The Acc needs to treat this like a divorce. They need to think what’s best for the spouse who isn’t leaving. They have to think long term and can’t ignore the inevitable. Right now they are in a sexless marriage that is staying together for the sole purpose of waiting until the youngest graduates high school and leaves the house.
As irrelevant as UConn seems to be, they can be a key player. If the big 12 adds UConn and sdsu or Oregon state, the acc will be left with no options wants the cheating spouse actually files.

If I’m Wake Forest I’m milking this until 2036, and by that time who knows what the landscape will look like. I know I’m inside the power structure until then, and if the whole college sports world gets antsy for that 13 yr wait so they leave the NCAA, I know I will be grandfathered into the power structure. There is no possible way I risk my position with wishful thinking. As my Greek mom often says to me, sit on your eggs.

 

[CL82]

As to your second paragraph, didn't gloss over anything. Yes, Tobacco Road planned to take us and Syracuse because they thought we made more sense in terms of being a flagship and hoops. BC yelled and they said fine, Pitt is just as good. Not sure what that changes -- ACC acknowledged at the time they viewed Pitt and us as being very comparable.

… Because, it was never about a specific geographic area, and instead was about depleting the Big East.

I'm not sure why you are swimming upstream on this. The Boston College A.D. said "ESPN told us what to do". That's a quote from him within months of the raid. Clearly, ESPN was the driving force behind the raids which took the big east off the board as a BCS conference, which is you know was a precursor to the P5 which is a precursor to the soon to be A4.

But, whatever, it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other whether you acknowledge what is a pretty indisputable fact.

 

[CL82]

View attachment 90530

$50m deficit
Less $13M one time payment to KO,
Less $6M in unfunded pension contributions,
Less $7.5M in lost profits by playing in Hartford.

So actual operating deficit is something like $23.5M.

And the $23.5 million number includes paper tuition payments And the $23.5 million number includes paper tuition payments from the athletic department back to the academic side of the university at the full tuition cost, which is paid by virtually no one, from the athletic department back to the academic side of the University.

If we join the Big 12, and eliminated all those extraordinary items, but included the paper tuition payments, our university would be making a $26.5 million profit annually. Stop and think about that and how different it is from the narrative of "Connecticut is losing $50 million a year."

 

[HuskyHawk]

If I’m Wake Forest I’m milking this until 2036, and by that time who knows what the landscape will look like. I know I’m inside the power structure until then, and if the whole college sports world gets antsy for that 13 yr wait so they leave the NCAA, I know I will be grandfathered into the power structure. There is no possible way I risk my position with wishful thinking. As my Greek mom often says to me, sit on your eggs.

Totally agree. Nobody is getting out of the ACC without paying at least the value of those rights over that period + a kicker. OU and UT each paid about $50m for a single season. What's the price for 13 of them? Plus lost NCAA credits during that time as well.