Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[BigTenFan]

I can see the Big10 scheduling Rutgers, NW, PSU, Minnesota and Nebraska at ND every year. That would leave only 3 mid or high tier Big10 games at ND.

I’m assuming you are talking about BBall and not football.

ND already has a B1G10 tradition of playing Purdue, Michigan, Northwestern and MSU- they are all less than 3 hour drive from South Bend

 

[Billy Jack]

Here’s why the Big XII makes no sense as the leftovers’ conference. Below is a list of teams currently outside the B1G and SEC in order of value, from the si.com list posted recently on this site. I don’t want to bicker about whether the list is accurate because regardless of adjustments to it, the trends will stay the same.

Only Notre Dame, Washington, Clemson, Stanford, and Florida State are in the room 20. All the rest are ranked between 21-40. Cross Notre Dame off the list because they will not be in a leftovers’ conference. Look at the rest:

Notre Dame
Washington
Clemson
Stanford
Florida State
North Carolina
Oregon
Oklahoma a State
Miami
Iowa State
North Carolina State
Arizona State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
TCU
BYU

Only OK State, Iowa State, and TCU are in Big XII territory. The rest are either east of the Mississippi or west of the Rockies. If someone wanted wanted to put together a conference of leftovers with the most value, it would be a bi-coastal conference with East and West divisions. It would not be a conference base around a bunch of schools in the middle of the country.

 

[businesslawyer]

And you are either very misinformed or willfully ignoring my point which has been...forget the $100 million Exit Fee...forget the GOR tieing up all other sports...

But do not discount the GOR ancillary contract signed by the Irish guaranteeing that they would join the ACC in football iof they join any conferenece. It is a contract executed so that the ACC would allow them to participate in the conference as a partial member.

The ACC can and would litigate what the lost value of that joining the ACC in football would be worth over 10 years...

The exit fee is what it is. Even if they are paying the same exit fee that a football playing member would pay, $100 large is just not going to stop a generational (if not permanent) move. The GOR might stop a team that had pledged its media rights for football. Oh, just to take one example, FSU. But Notre Dame could shut down all its sports but footballl, much less just have them shut off from television, and if they wanted to go to the Big Ten to play football it wouldn't deter them.

Everyone else pledged football media rights. Those schools going this many years early is a horse of a totally different color. As for the agreement not to join anywhere else, how do you show damages? ND just says we never would have joined the ACC, we just would have stayed independent (which is almost certainly true), and then what are your damages? Three lost games a year where ND would be your opponent? Trivial, and they could still give you those games as OOC games if they want to.

I think you are being sincere here, and you've never thought of this before. I'm so sorry.

 

[billybud]

Damages..? I see that you are missing the point...If Notre Dame stays independent, they meet their contractual obligation. If they join the B1G they breach. And there are effects of that breach.

The damage to the ACC is...the value of lost revenue of Notre Dame not joining the ACC, if they joined a conference, as contracted. The value that they bring the B1G is a place to start. That value that they would bring to a conference...they have contractually pledged that value through 2036.

It isn't the handful of games currently contracted yearly....it is the vast value that Notre Dame brings to a conference as a football member....upgraded ESPN ACC media contracts that float all boats...and a decade of that.

I believe that Notre Dame will stay independent and seek big bucks from NBC for their 7 home games...75 million is being booted about.

 

[Bobol]

Here’s why the Big XII makes no sense as the leftovers’ conference. Below is a list of teams currently outside the B1G and SEC in order of value, from the si.com list posted recently on this site. I don’t want to bicker about whether the list is accurate because regardless of adjustments to it, the trends will stay the same.

Only Notre Dame, Washington, Clemson, Stanford, and Florida State are in the room 20. All the rest are ranked between 21-40. Cross Notre Dame off the list because they will not be in a leftovers’ conference. Look at the rest:

Notre Dame
Washington
Clemson
Stanford
Florida State
North Carolina
Oregon
Oklahoma a State
Miami
Iowa State
North Carolina State
Arizona State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
TCU
BYU

Only OK State, Iowa State, and TCU are in Big XII territory. The rest are either east of the Mississippi or west of the Rockies. If someone wanted wanted to put together a conference of leftovers with the most value, it would be a bi-coastal conference with East and West divisions. It would not be a conference base around a bunch of schools in the middle of the country.

Where is the University of Syracuse on the list ?

it appears that Syracuse University (which I always thought worked to UConn in SU’s lame attempt to claim to be “NY’s Team”) is not in the best position in this reshuffle.

 

[billybud]

One of the difficulties in deciphering is that the public does not have copies of...

1...the current ACC GOR...only the 2013 GOR is in the public
2...the ESPN contract which is linked to the GOR
3...the ancillary contract binding Notre Dame to join the ACC, if they fully join a conference before 2036

All have been reported...but nobody has a copy.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

All have been reported...but nobody has a copy.

Very true Billy but you must realize that this includes you.

 

[businesslawyer]

Damages..? I see that you are missing the point...If Notre Dame stays independent, they meet their contractual obligation. If they join the B1G they breach. And there are effects of that breach.

The damage to the ACC is...the value of lost revenue of Notre Dame not joining the ACC, if they joined a conference, as contracted. The value that they bring the B1G is a place to start. That value that they would bring to a conference...they have contractually pledged that value through 2036.

It isn't the handful of games currently contracted yearly....it is the vast value that Notre Dame brings to a conference as a football member....upgraded ESPN ACC media contracts that float all boats...and a decade of that.

I believe that Notre Dame will stay independent and seek big bucks from NBC for their 7 home games...75 million is being booted about.

No. They never promised to join the ACC. Not joining the ACC isn’t the breach. The breach is joining the Big Ten versus staying football independent.

 

[dayooper]

One of the difficulties in deciphering is that the public does not have copies of...

1...the current ACC GOR...only the 2013 GOR is in the public
2...the ESPN contract which is linked to the GOR
3...the ancillary contract binding Notre Dame to join the ACC, if they fully join a conference before 2036

All have been reported...but nobody has a copy.

No one knows what the process to how the ACC can be disbanded either. All we have for ND is the work of the former ACC commish who waived ND claiming the only conference ND can join is the ACC. Reminds me of Neville Chamberlain waving Hitlers word claiming we have “Peace in our time.”

 

[WestHartHusk]

The other reason I think this is likely the FSU path is because they don’t have the necessary value for the next-tier conferences. Really, who cares about them nationally? They’ve been lapped by so many programs in recent history it is hard to count, combined with the fact that they have no real natural market beyond the panhandle.

 

[Hoophound]

The other reason I think this is likely the FSU path is because they don’t have the necessary value for the next-tier conferences. Really, who cares about them nationally? They’ve been lapped by so many programs in recent history it is hard to count, combined with the fact that they have no real natural market beyond the panhandle.

FSU has a huge following and puts up very strong national ratings. They just need to get back on track. Norvell will win there.

 

[Rufus]

The top ACC schools will eventually join the B1G and SEC. It’s not a question of if, but when.

The only schools not looking to change conferences are schools in the B1G and SEC. All schools in the ACC, Big 12 and PAC 12 would leave for the B1G or SEC in a heartbeat if they could. It’s just a matter of if the B1G or SEC wants them or not.

Florida State, Miami, Clemson, etc. will never sign another GOR with the ACC that’s for sure. ACC’s best hope of survival is simply lasting until 2036 with speculation that schools will leave every year from now until then. That is the absolute best case scenario for the ACC. The schools I just mentioned (and perhaps others) will not be in the ACC by 2037. Think how far behind financially those schools will be if they are forced to remain in the ACC until that time.

 

[Billy Jack]

Where is the University of Syracuse on the list ?

it appears that Syracuse University (which I always thought worked to “F” UConn in SU’s lame attempt to claim to be “NY’s Team”) is not in the best position in this reshuffle.

Syracuse is #60 out of 69.

 

[CL82]

But Notre Dame could shut down all its sports but footballl, much less just have them shut off from television, and if they wanted to go to the Big Ten to play football it wouldn't deter them.

Notre Dame would just keep doing what it does and ESPN with either choose to broadcast its games or it wouldn’t. As you point out, though, the value of a mediate contract is almost exclusively the value of the football games. So Notre Dame would actually be better off in the Big Ten giving up at basketball an Olympic sports rights then station in the ACC. Remember the grant of rights is only a grant of the right to broadcast home games. As far as other teams are concerned, it doesn’t impact them all that much.

 

[WestHartHusk]

FSU has a huge following and puts up very strong national ratings. They just need to get back on track. Norvell will win there.

I believe their attendance has dropped every year for like 20 straight years. That’s a trend. FAU football is a big sell.

 

[Billy Jack]

The other reason I think this is likely the FSU path is because they don’t have the necessary value for the next-tier conferences. Really, who cares about them nationally? They’ve been lapped by so many programs in recent history it is hard to count, combined with the fact that they have no real natural market beyond the panhandle.

No real natural market? They’re the #2 state university in a state of 24 million people. You don’t think that fans from all over Florida watch FSU?

 

[billybud]

No. They never promised to join the ACC. Not joining the ACC isn’t the breach. The breach is joining the Big Ten versus staying football independent.

Jeez....nope...the contract says they would not join another conference other than the ACC (you can call that provision a promise if that suits you)...it is a breach if they do.

I can't believe that you say that..."They never promised to join the ACC"....they most certainly did, if they would join any conference, it had to be the ACC. They signed that contract and that provision is binding. And that provision of the contract is part and parcel of the ACC agreeing to their participation.

 

[dayooper]

Jeez....nope...the contract says they would not join another conference other than the ACC (you can call that provision a promise if that suits you)...it is a breach if they do.

I can't believe that you say that..."They never promised to join the ACC"....they most certainly did, if they would join any conference, it had to be the ACC. They signed that contract and that provision is binding. And that provision of the contract is part and parcel of the ACC agreeing to their participation.

So you have read the contract?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Jeez....nope...the contract says they would not join another conference other than the ACC (you can call that provision a promise if that suits you)...it is a breach if they do.

I can't believe that you say that..."They never promised to join the ACC"....they most certainly did, if they would join any conference, it had to be the ACC. They signed that contract and that provision is binding. And that provision of the contract is part and parcel of the ACC agreeing to their participation.

Can you dig out what the termination clause reads?

 

[billybud]

Can you dig out what the termination clause reads?

1...there is no termination clause in the GOR...a straight assignment of rights for a defined period.

2...No one has the ancillary ACC contract with Notre Dame that has the provision that the Irish will join the ACC if they join a conference before 2037 and that they will play 5 games per year with ACC teams (widely reported..but the document is not in the public realm).

Folks have tried to obtain the contract and ESPN contract (two law firms in Florida requested from FSU under FOIA to no avail).

 

[CAtlantic]

 

[dayooper]

1...there is no termination clause in the GOR...a straight assignment of rights for a defined period.

2...No one has the ancillary ACC contract with Notre Dame that has the provision that the Irish will join the ACC if they join a conference before 2037 and that they will play 5 games per year with ACC teams (widely reported..but the document is not in the public realm).

Folks have tried to obtain the contract and ESPN contract (two law firms in Florida requested from FSU under FOIA to no avail).

Then we don’t know what the terms of the agreement are and what the penalty for not joining would be. Just because Jim Swofford said it doesn’t make it so. He, like all heads of organizations and corporations will smooth over any rough spots and only say what’s in the best interest of the group. Without reading and understanding the contract, it’s hard to determine what and what’s not feasible for ND to do.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

2...No one has the ancillary ACC contract with Notre Dame that has the provision that the Irish will join the ACC if they join a conference before 2037 and that they will play 5 games per year with ACC teams (widely reported..but the document is not in the public realm).

Yes, but for some reason you claim to filly know the terms of this agreement.

 

[billybud]

No...no one knows. It could say anything...Even that the Irish could leave by saying "Mother, may I".

But the contract is an attachment to the Notre Dame GOR as an iancillary football contract.

The GOR is fashioned very simply...no provision for exit, no exit fee, no damage provision...just a straight assignment of rights through 2036.

If the ancillary football contract is fashioned in the same way...a simple contracted committment for a period...it would not surprise me.

 

[billybud]

Yes, but for some reason you claim to filly know the terms of this agreement.

Oh yeah...I never claim to know fully the terms of the contract...only that which has been reported by various sources...and as I post...the contract is not in the public realm.