Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Rufus]

USC will want to play at Rutgers and Maryland as much as possible. Why? USC alumni in NYC and DC - these games will be part of a fundraising effort for USC with their alumni. Same with the other B1G schools. This is a money move in more ways than one.

Another thought - Look at what B1G baseball can become now. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see B1G games played at USC and UCLA between other B1G schools in March especially. Minnesota vs. Michigan played @ USC, for example. Maybe B1G schools can spend money on domed baseball and softball fields too.

 

[freescooter]

Basketball home attendance dropped from a peak of 13,800 in the old Big East days to a low of 7,800 in the AAC. That was a huge loss. Back in the Big East, we drew 10,300 per game this year. While joining the Bug XII would have some benefits, the administration is not going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg a 2nd time in pursuit of the football dream that could very quickly become AAC Part Deux.

Stop. It was dropping BEFORE the AAC. Don’t be disingenuous. 2006 it was 13948. 2009 12,518. 2011 it was 11,259. So that’s a drop of almost 3000 while we were still in the Big East. Over 5 years. You might actually check before stating “facts”

 

[freescooter]

The lack of football didn’t prevent Villanova from winning 2 of the past 6 national championships. It didn’t prevent Gonzaga from getting to 2 of the past 5 title games. It didn’t stop Loyola (Chi) from getting to the Final Four 4 years ago. There’s no way that the lack of a football program will kill a good basketball program.

Attendance didn’t drop just because some of the teams were below par, seasons, by the way, for which there were expectations going in but injuries helped to ruin. A big factor in the massive decline in attendance was the fact that the games were against opponents no one cared about and half the fans didn’t recognize.

Regardless of how good basketball is in the Big XII - and I agree that it has been very good in recent years - the same problems would exist as was the case in the AAC. There would be no meaningful rivalries and no tradition. The opponents wouldn’t be bringing any fans with them because of the distance - as opposed to Big East games when attendance is/was bolstered by fans of the opponents buying tuckers. The trips are too long and wear down the team to a greater degree than opponents in a conference which is centered much closer to most of those other members.

It would be a different story in the ACC where membership would make much more sense. Everyone would be in the same time zone. Trips would generally shorter. And you actually find alums of many of those colleges here in CT or within driving distance. The ACC includes some traditional rivals, names that are recognizable to just about everyone in CT, and schools which might even be attended by other members of the same family.

A little further information that suggests that other factors were in play. By 2013, the last year in the Big East, attendance was down to 10,728. One could argue that bad basketball, having a team that lost to Northeastern and Wagner in the same season had as much to do with the decline as being in the AAC. If UConn had been a National Championship contender, Elite 8, even Sweet 16 over that period, attendance might have stabilized around the 10,000 mark, where it was arguably heading anyway. Oh, and all my figures come from the NCAA attendance reports which are published annually. And our last year in the AAC when we started, you know, winning, attendance went up by about 1000 per gave average.
So to summarize, you cherry picked data ignoring the larger trends, ie that attendance had been heading south for a number of seasons, and that people don’t go to watch losing teams, in order to argue that some extraneous variable, the AAC, caused the decline. You were probably an English major.

 

[freescooter]

The lack of football didn’t prevent Villanova from winning 2 of the past 6 national championships. It didn’t prevent Gonzaga from getting to 2 of the past 5 title games. It didn’t stop Loyola (Chi) from getting to the Final Four 4 years ago. There’s no way that the lack of a football program will kill a good basketball program.

Attendance didn’t drop just because some of the teams were below par, seasons, by the way, for which there were expectations going in but injuries helped to ruin. A big factor in the massive decline in attendance was the fact that the games were against opponents no one cared about and half the fans didn’t recognize.

Regardless of how good basketball is in the Big XII - and I agree that it has been very good in recent years - the same problems would exist as was the case in the AAC. There would be no meaningful rivalries and no tradition. The opponents wouldn’t be bringing any fans with them because of the distance - as opposed to Big East games when attendance is/was bolstered by fans of the opponents buying tuckers. The trips are too long and wear down the team to a greater degree than opponents in a conference which is centered much closer to most of those other members.

It would be a different story in the ACC where membership would make much more sense. Everyone would be in the same time zone. Trips would generally shorter. And you actually find alums of many of those colleges here in CT or within driving distance. The ACC includes some traditional rivals, names that are recognizable to just about everyone in CT, and schools which might even be attended by other members of the same family.

A little further information that suggests that other factors were in play. By 2013, the last year in the Big East, attendance was down to 10,728. One could argue that bad basketball, having a team that lost to Northeastern and Wagner in the same season had as much to do with the decline as being in the AAC. If UConn had been a National Championship contender, Elite 8, even Sweet 16 over that period, attendance might have stabilized around the 10,000 mark, where it was arguably heading anyway. Oh, and all my figures come from the NCAA attendance reports which are published annually.

As to Villanova, another way to look at it is 32 of the last 35 NCAA basketball champs played FBS football. So maybe it does matter. Factors like bigger and better athletic departments, facilities, training, support all contribute. The fact that an outlier won a couple of times is just that. An outlier won a couple of times. B

 

[HuskyDogArt]

Probably not. They're thrilled to be out of the AAC

Are we thrilled to be out of it? To me, Hell YES!

 

[Urcea]

FWIW I agree with the financials of the Big XII but don’t think it’s a good move for the fan engagement reasons Billy Jack elucidates. The Big XII would have to commit to adding more in the region beyond us, and even do additional fan buy in for rivalries with those options (Buffalo and Temple?) would take time. It seems like the ACC is the best compromise.

 

[Stinger92860]

FWIW I agree with the financials of the Big XII but don’t think it’s a good move for the fan engagement reasons Billy Jack elucidates. The Big XII would have to commit to adding more in the region beyond us, and even do additional fan buy in for rivalries with those options (Buffalo and Temple?) would take time. It seems like the ACC is the best compromise.

Temple and Buffalo will have a lot of competition for TV eyeballs. They won’t go UMass. I think you would have to accept WVU as a regional mate. If ucla and usc can do the B1G then we can do the b12. Sorry to the English guys, but I’m tired of the caps.

 

[Urcea]

Temple and Buffalo will have a lot of competition for TV eyeballs. They won’t go UMass. I think you would have to accept WVU as a regional mate. If ucla and usc can do the B1G then we can do the b12. Sorry to the English guys, but I’m tired of the caps.

I don't think either team is really that great of a fit for the Big XII (or us as rivals), they're just the ones that jump out to me as available (or, like, sub out Temple for Navy or whatever) in our region that could pair decently with us, Cincy, and WV

 

[billybud]

Asking for a friend..any chance that Cuse and BC can leave the ACC ?

Cincinnati, WVU, Cuse, BC, UConn....

And Kansas as a basketball rival..

 

[Urcea]

Asking for a friend..any chance that Cuse and BC can leave the ACC ?

Cincinnati, WVU, Cuse, BC, UConn....

And Kansas as a basketball rival..

I'd like Pitt in that mix

 

[buddy]

Asking for a friend..any chance that Cuse and BC can leave the ACC ?

Cincinnati, WVU, Cuse, BC, UConn....

And Kansas as a basketball rival..

Wishful thinking

 

[Urcea]

i originally posted in non key tweets since i couldn't find the story but now i have:

The pitch and the path: Why SMU is internally optimistic about this round of realignment

In big news this week: the Big 12 is reportedly in deep discussions to add six members of the Pac-12. Oh, and the Pac-12 is reportedly eyeing a “loose”...

www.dallasnews.com

evidently SMU and the ACC have had conversations

 

[shizzle787]

i originally posted in non key tweets since i couldn't find the story but now i have:

The pitch and the path: Why SMU is internally optimistic about this round of realignment

In big news this week: the Big 12 is reportedly in deep discussions to add six members of the Pac-12. Oh, and the Pac-12 is reportedly eyeing a “loose”...

www.dallasnews.com

evidently SMU and the ACC have had conversations

ACC has probably had conversations with us but we’ve kept them quiet.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Ha Who]

Remember when only tweets were allowed in this thread? Commentary was left for other threads. Oops, I am guilty with this post

 

[DCUconnfan]

Great, so ND gets included because of their tie to the ACC I imagine despite being independent, and we get left off the numbers because of independence. Based on the work highlighted by ThisIsUconnCountry, I have to imaging wee are somewhere in the 50s on that table but don’t get the press.

 

[billybud]

The key data elements that they used in ranking could disadvantage UConn's ranking position...

Learfield Director's Cup Standings.....UConn...#85

Sagarin Ranking......five year average

Football Attendance.....average home attendance 2017-21 (tossing out '20)

Academic Ranking ......USNWR National Universities Rank...#63

 

[Billy Jack]

Stop. It was dropping BEFORE the AAC. Don’t be disingenuous. 2006 it was 13948. 2009 12,518. 2011 it was 11,259. So that’s a drop of almost 3000 while we were still in the Big East. Over 5 years. You might actually check before stating “facts”

A personal attack simply means that you have no counter argument. Nice try.

 

[Billy Jack]

A little further information that suggests that other factors were in play. By 2013, the last year in the Big East, attendance was down to 10,728. One could argue that bad basketball, having a team that lost to Northeastern and Wagner in the same season had as much to do with the decline as being in the AAC. If UConn had been a National Championship contender, Elite 8, even Sweet 16 over that period, attendance might have stabilized around the 10,000 mark, where it was arguably heading anyway. Oh, and all my figures come from the NCAA attendance reports which are published annually.

As to Villanova, another way to look at it is 32 of the last 35 NCAA basketball champs played FBS football. So maybe it does matter. Factors like bigger and better athletic departments, facilities, training, support all contribute. The fact that an outlier won a couple of times is just that. An outlier won a couple of times. B

“. . . down to 10,278” ???

You’ve just made my case. UConn’s low point in the Big East, a season in which Calhoun left us on probation, had higher attendance than ANY season in the AAC, including the post-NC season.

Someone’s going to have to explain to me why attendance hit a low point of 7800 in the AAC, why attendance remained below 10,000 for 4 straight seasons in the AAC, and why attendance immediately jumped back up over 10,000 in the first post-Covid season in the Big East.

Don’t you think that the administration had statisticians doing sophisticated analytics on all this stuff before they made the decision to return to the Big East? Or do you think they just made that decision on a whim?

 

[Billy Jack]

As to Villanova, another way to look at it is 32 of the last 35 NCAA basketball champs played FBS football. So maybe it does matter. Factors like bigger and better athletic departments, facilities, training, support all contribute. The fact that an outlier won a couple of times is just that. An outlier won a couple of times. B

UConn was barely I-A when we won the ‘04 NC and wasn’t competing in an FBS league until the following season. I can’t agree with including that team as one which got a boost from FBS football.

Kind of convenient that you made the cut off at 35 years. Had you gone back 3 more years, you would have had to include the Georgetown and Villanova NCs in 1984-85. So, now we have 6 in 38 years. The Big East is the only league that plays basketball at the highest level. When you consider that there are 130 FBS programs and only 11 in the BE, 6 NCs are pretty representative.

And we can double that list with 6 more non-football schools who made it to the championship game but lost - in some cases by merely point on a controversial call:

2021 - Gonzaga
2017 - Gonzaga
2011 - Butler
2010 - Butler
1989 - Seton Hall
1985 - Georgetown

The non-football schools are no strangers to the championship game.

Frankly the argument can be made that football is a deterrent to success in basketball. Here are the only schools to have won 3 or more NCs since 1985:

Duke - 5
UConn - 4
UNC - 4
Villanova - 3
Kentucky - 3
Kansas - 3

Those 6 schools have combined to win 22 of the last 38 NCs and all have to be considered weak sisters in football despite the occasional good football season or two here or there.

 

[Billy Jack]

It’s an interesting exercise to take the list of schools on this link, which are basically the top revenue producing schools and combine them into one new league. This would be the alternative to combining a couple of existing leagues like the much discussed potential merger of the Pac12 and the Big12. Merging leagues perpetuates the problem of having big revenue producers watch their $$$ produced go to league members who generate less revenue.

Combining the top 16 teams on this list into a new league conveniently breaks down into sensible East-West divisions. Here’s what these 8-team divisions would look like with their ranking on the total list as linked:

EAST

3 - Notre Dame
19 - Florida State
22 - North Carolina
25 - Miami
30 - North Carolina State
32 - Virginia
35 - VA Tech
46 - Pitt

WEST

15 - Washington
17 - Stanford
22 - Oregon
25 - Oklahoma State
30 - Arizona State
35 - Utah
37 - TCU
40 - BYU

This might allow for the formation of a 4th league, more focused on maximizing basketball revenues even more so than football revenues:

44 - Baylor
48 - West Virginia
50 - Duke
51 - Texas Tech
54 - Georgia Tech
55 - Louisville
60 - Syracuse
66 - Cincinnati
68 - Kansas
69 - Houston
?? - UConn

I did not include anyone on the basketball-centric list who has not been to at least one Final Four in the past 30 years nor did I include anyone west of the Rockies for the travel problems it presents. An 11-member league allows for a full round-robin schedule. If there were an interest in expanding the league even further, there are others on the list which I did not include, starting with #30 Arizona and #44 Wake Forest.

 

[Hoophound]

The key data elements that they used in ranking could disadvantage UConn's ranking position...

Learfield Director's Cup Standings.....UConn...#85

Sagarin Ranking......five year average

Football Attendance.....average home attendance 2017-21 (tossing out '20)

Academic Ranking ......USNWR National Universities Rank...#63

Meh. We have knowingly and willingly let our USNWR ranking drop for the good of the university. We can easily go back to the previous model of two years ago if it gets our AD 50 mill/year. UConn isn’t playing the USNWR game anymore. It’s a ruse that Florida schools are taking seriously. Don’t bring it here as evidence of anything. We were blowing FSU out of the water (like UF is) until we decided not to. Other ranking methods put UConn square in the middle of the B1G.

 

[businesslawyer]

Meh. We have knowingly and willingly let our USNWR ranking drop for the good of the university. We can easily go back to the previous model of two years ago if it gets our AD 50 mill/year. UConn isn’t playing the USNWR game anymore. It’s a ruse that Florida schools are taking seriously. Don’t bring it here as evidence of anything. We were blowing FSU out of the water (like UF is) until we decided not to. Other ranking methods put UConn square in the middle of the B1G.

Our ranking as a public university is not keeping us out of the Big Ten. Average Sagarin ratings and home football attendance, however, ....

 

[LoyalFanCT]

if we start to win attendance will skyrocket.

 

[freescooter]

“. . . down to 10,278” ???

You’ve just made my case. UConn’s low point in the Big East, a season in which Calhoun left us on probation, had higher attendance than ANY season in the AAC, including the post-NC season.

Someone’s going to have to explain to me why attendance hit a low point of 7800 in the AAC, why attendance remained below 10,000 for 4 straight seasons in the AAC, and why attendance immediately jumped back up over 10,000 in the first post-Covid season in the Big East.

Don’t you think that the administration had statisticians doing sophisticated analytics on all this stuff before they made the decision to return to the Big East? Or do you think they just made that decision on a whim?

Yeah not so much. Here’s what the big drivers were:
1. Attendance was dropping and had been for at least 5-6 years.
2. Attendance in 2014 was basically flat at 10,300 or so. 2015 it actually went up a bit, which is typical after a NC. then you are right, it went down again but stayed around 10,000 in 2016. Then in 2017 and 2018 it cratered, but take a guess what else cratered in those years. Those were the last 2 Ollie seasons when we lost games to Wagner and Northeastern, and set a record for losing blowouts. 2019 Hurley arrived and attendance clicked up to 8600+- then in 2020 the last Big AAC year and when were were back in consideration for the Tournament and lo and behold, attendance bounced up to just under 10,000 again (9,890 I think). 2021 was the COVID year so no numbers but a pulse with a tourney bid and 2022 saw a jump again to 10,345. But still way below the 2006 peak, and despite a pretty solid team and the return to live games and the New Big East, it was BELOW 2015 and 2016. Using your logic, more fans attended games when We were in the AAC than in the NEWBIE. But in reality more fans attend games when the team is good than when it is just ok or bad. The conference might have a marginal impact but the quality of OUR team is the real driver. I also suspect, though I didn’t do any analysis to prove it, that there is a season to season carryover. So 2015 wasn’t that good a team, but there was some positive vibes from winning the title which brought more fans to see them the next season. The 2010 team was sort of meh, so attendance went down in 2011 and didn’t rebound until later in the season. Some thing happened in 2020, I imagine…a team that looked to be decidedly average suddenly caught fire so attendance rebounded late in the year.

So how’s that for providing an argument and backing it up with data which pretty clearly refutes your opinion unsupported by a more thorough look at the facts? As I said in my first post, you cherry picked data and argued that attendance cratered because of the AAC. The truth is attendance remained pretty much within the range it had been in the later years of the Calhoun regime including the National Championship year by the way. Then when the team crashed attendance followed suit. When the team recover, attendance recovered. That’s what the actual data show and that’s pretty consistent with the general rule of thumb about sports teams.