Kevin Ollie’s lawyers ask for depositions from NCAA president Mark Emmert and national search firm as contract dispute with UConn

[superjohn]

I'm talking 2014. Ollie had the College BB world at his feet. You were probably first in the BY line back then to blow the guy. When the way to get more money is to continually draw more interest from other programs or the NBA being dependent on a mentor lowers your value. i assure you that Jim Calhoun understands this.

Yep, worked out great for him and his wallet. That acupuncture money is bigger than that NBA money.

 

[casual-yardin]

We've been over this. The guy made ~$11M the next 3 years from UConn and was proly worth at least $20M pre divorce.

I'm talking about almost 6 years ago. He was a young, black, "cool", former NBA player, friends with Lebron and Durant, coming off a National Championship in his 2nd year, college basketball coach. Only a person with absolutely no self confidence would want any doubt that their future was their own doing.

 

[Zissou]

80% is a preposterous figure given the relative strength of the parties' cases. Something like 20% would make sense simply to end the saga, and even at that it's basically a gift to Ollie since his case is so weak. Violations by Ollie constitute "cause" and the 3 year show cause penalty he recieved from the NCAA is certainly ample grounds that violations took place. Is that really that difficult to comprehend?

If even 20% was offered... that did not get it done. So we prefer these current events?

maybe they were $6 or $7M apart?

The NCAA is not a court. Kevin was fired before the show cause punishment. The NCAA is notorious for capricious rulings. Don’t assume the court will see the facts in the same light as the NCAA. A 3 year penalty on Kevin does not seem to fit the infractions. (Compare this to Will Wade and Sean Miller).

They should have paid him, avoided further cost and BS, and moved on.

I’ve had lawyers very confident in their cases lose. We’ll see if Ollie’s case is so weak, but I’d caution being overly confident. Most cases settle because of the great uncertainty of outcomes.

 

[Huskybass]

If even 20% was offered... that did not get it done. So we prefer these current events?

maybe they were $6 or $7M apart?

The NCAA is not a court. Kevin was fired before the show cause punishment. The NCAA is notorious for capricious rulings. Don’t assume the court will see the facts in the same light as the NCAA. A 3 year penalty on Kevin does not seem to fit the infractions. (Compare this to Will Wade and Sean Miller).

They should have paid him, avoided further cost and BS, and moved on.

I’ve had lawyers very confident in their cases lose. We’ll see if Ollie’s case is so weak, but I’d caution being overly confident. Most cases settle because of the great uncertainty of outcomes.

If you took the time to actually read the contract at issue, you would see that it clearly states that violations of NCAA rules constitute "cause". The infractions were not only committed, but both Ollie and the school recieved corresponding penalties.

Does the case have some settlement value, simply to make it go away? Sure. But that number is nowhere near the amount you stated. UConn's case is FAR stronger than Ollie's. Any objective party can see that.

 

[Zissou]

Something to think about

What is the legal relationship between UConn and the NCAA?

Once Kevin was fired, the NCAA imposed higher penalties in the coach then on the school. UConn and the NCAA both benefited from this action.
There is a lot of ground to cover here for the legal teams. Keep the meter running.

UConn’s fees are likely not capped. I wonder if Kevin’s team is on partial contingency.

 

[Zissou]

If you took the time to actually read the contract at issue, you would see that it clearly states that violations of NCAA rules constitute "cause". The infractions were not only committed, but both Ollie and the school recieved corresponding penalties.

Does the case have some settlement value, simply to make it go away? Sure. But that number is nowhere near the amount you stated. UConn's case is FAR stronger than Ollie's. Any objective party can see that.

Would JC’s violations have constituted cause?

 

[husky429]

If even 20% was offered... that did not get it done. So we prefer these current events?

maybe they were $6 or $7M apart?

The NCAA is not a court. Kevin was fired before the show cause punishment. The NCAA is notorious for capricious rulings. Don’t assume the court will see the facts in the same light as the NCAA. A 3 year penalty on Kevin does not seem to fit the infractions. (Compare this to Will Wade and Sean Miller).

They should have paid him, avoided further cost and BS, and moved on.

I’ve had lawyers very confident in their cases lose. We’ll see if Ollie’s case is so weak, but I’d caution being overly confident. Most cases settle because of the great uncertainty of outcomes.

Imagine having nearly 1000 posts on an opposing team's message board. Whenever I think "hey, today I will post on the *insert any team but UConn or Celtics* message board," I take a deep breath and watch some @tcf15 videos instead. I recommend it.

 

[Zissou]

Imagine having nearly 1000 posts on an opposing team's message board. Whenever I think "hey, today I will post on the *insert any team but UConn or Celtics* message board," I take a deep breath and watch some @tcf15 videos instead. I recommend it.

I obviously have some CT connections. I don’t have the same interest for UMass.

 

[Huskybass]

Would JC’s violations have constituted cause?

That's not even worth speculating on, as Ollie's contract has no applicability to Calhoun. The terms and conditions of Ollie's contract only apply to his role as Head Coach.

 

[BlueDogs]

That is a very low low ball. 80% of contract should have gotten the settlement done and saved the university a few mil.

both sides have gone scorched earth. It benefits neither.

2-3M is a pretty fair deal for a guy entitled to zero under the express terms of the contract. His lawyers on the front side negotiated a pretty poor contract with no materiality or intentionality standards.

 

[Zissou]

That's not even worth speculating on, as Ollie's contract has no applicability to Calhoun. The terms and conditions of Ollie's contract only apply to his role as Head Coach.

I’ll answer for you. Yes, JC could have been fired for cause, but wasn’t. KO was, and is in a protected class. You might find that irrelevant. I might find that irrelevant. An arbiter, judge, or jury might not.

Some BYers are very certain Kevin has no chance at a positive outcome. Some thought there was no chance UConn would join the Big East. We’ll see.

 

[KingAG]

I’ll answer for you. Yes, JC could have been fired for cause, but wasn’t. KO was, and is in a protected class. You might find that irrelevant. I might find that irrelevant. An arbiter, judge, or jury might not.

Some BYers are very certain Kevin has no chance at a positive outcome. Some thought there was no chance UConn would join the Big East. We’ll see.

it won't stand because Benedict wasn't AD when Calhoun was coach. Calhouns situation is almost completely irrelevant

 

[CL82]

So why do you think that Ray Allen, Caron Butler, and others feel differently? It open and shut right? Are you really confident that you can convince a jury ?

I think Ray and Caron are supporting a friend. I don’t think they’ve done legal analysis. Keep in mind that this matter is in arbitration. There is no jury. The arbiter we decide that Kevin is entitled to the full $11 million, or nothing at all.

 

[huskyrob1]

This is the dumbest post in this thread so if you were going for that well done! Chris Dailey even being mentioned shows complete ignorance.

The guys that led the Huskies to the title were hardly part of JC's teams minus Shabazz. Daniels got better, Giffey much more impact, Boat was better, Nolan was a piece as were others under KO. Kromah was a solid pick up/player off the bench used nicely, Brimah was a piece as was Samuel at key times. Bazz was better his last 2 years under KO after a sophomore season in which he had trouble leading (team was a pain though not all on him but he whined too), certainly became a better leader under KO. The only reason anyone would say just a "passing grade" is pure hatred for the man for how he finished. Otherwise you're just blind to the really good job he did for 2-3 years. After that throw all the rubbage you want at the man it's well deserved, but give him his due.

I'll give him his due as a player, but as a head coach he sucked on several levels, Miller knew it, Hobbs knew it, players parents knew it, all the players that left team knew it, and unfortunately Jim Calhoun realized it much later. If Brimah had played under Hurley, he'd be on an NBA team roster. Keep doing your KO cheerleading dance for Benedict, the BOT, Emmert, the NCAA investigative team, the recruits involved, and all the golf courses in the Hartford area. I don't hate the man, but he deserves everything he's getting, which is not much.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'll give him his due as a player, but as a head coach he sucked on several levels, Miller knew it, Hobbs knew it, players parents knew it, and unfortunately Jim Calhoun realized it much later. If Brimah had played under Hurley, he'd be on an NBA team roster. Keep doing your KO cheerleading dance for Benedict, Emmert, the NCAA investigative team, the recruits involved, and all the golf courses in the Hartford area. I don't hate the man, but he deserves everything he's getting, which is not much.

No cheerleading here he did an awful job after his NC. He does deserve everything he's getting now it's painful to see and keep reading about it. But he deserves all the kudo's for his coaching job year 1 and year 2.

By the way what the hell are you even talking about? Benedict I haven't even talked about him at all. Emmert? Golf courses? You're spewing crap is hilarious get a life pal.

Brimah would've been exactly who he was with anyone, his low basketball IQ for the game never allowed him to improve as he should have. But keep going you look dumber every time you post on this subject.

 

[huskyrob1]

No cheerleading here he did an awful job after his NC. He does deserve everything he's getting now it's painful to see and keep reading about it. But he deserves all the kudo's for his coaching job year 1 and year 2.

By the way what the hell are you even talking about? Benedict I haven't even talked about him at all. Emmert? Golf courses? You're spewing crap is hilarious get a life pal.

Brimah would've been exactly who he was with anyone, his low basketball IQ for the game never allowed him to improve as he should have. But keep going you look dumber every time you post on this subject.

Is your signed 8 x 10 glossy of KO for sale?

 

[Zissou]

Diaco and staff were paid a buyout of $5.3M.

expect full discovery on that as well.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Would JC’s violations have constituted cause?

Irrelevant either way.

The "cause" provision is an option that allows UConn to fire and not pay the coach if they choose to do so.

They didn't want to fire JC. They did want to fire KO.

And KO's lawyers, as incompetent then as they are now, left a "for cause" clause in his contract wide enough to drive a truck through.

This should be crystal clear, legally. And KO's lawyers know this, given that their strategy has been entirely about trying to win in the court of public opinion, make UConn uncomfortable, and pressure them into a settlement (at this point, probably a worse settlement than UConn offered KO in the first place). They know they have no chance in an actual court of law or arbitration. And UConn continues to do the right thing by holding firm. They know they're in the right and should owe nothing.

 

[Zissou]

Irrelevant either way.

The "cause" provision is an option that allows UConn to fire and not pay the coach if they choose to do so.

They didn't want to fire JC. They did want to fire KO.

And KO's lawyers, as incompetent then as they are now, left a "for cause" clause in his contract wide enough to drive a truck through.

This should be crystal clear, legally. And KO's lawyers know this, given that their strategy has been entirely about trying to win in the court of public opinion, make UConn uncomfortable, and pressure them into a settlement (at this point, probably a worse settlement than UConn offered KO in the first place). They know they have no chance in an actual court of law or arbitration. And UConn continues to do the right thing by holding firm. They know they're in the right and should owe nothing.

Except KO has 2 contracts, and his union contract has been ruled in effect by the arbiter and has a higher standard for cause. JC may be relevant due to the equal treatment standard.

UConn has already been surprised to lose rulings so far. Let’s see if they also overestimated their position in the outcome.

“Was this investigation fair and objective?“

“Did the employer apply all rules, orders and penalties evenhandedly and without discrimination to ALL employees?“

 

[CL82]

Diaco and staff were paid a buyout of $5.3M.

expect full discovery on that as well.

Lol, I'm sure it is already done. It really doesn't help KO's case as it shows UConn will pay in full on a contract that hasn't been breached.

Moral of the story: If you want to keep your job, don't suck at it. If you don't want to keep your job but want to get paid on the remainder of you contract, don't breach it multiple times and lie to your employer and a outside regulating agency. It won't end well for you.

 

[Chief00]

Did they fire him before or after that was determined ? (being banned for three years)

Edit: added parentheses to hopefully clarify

He was fired before the NCAA announced the 3 year ban but the record was consistent with that punishment and we don’t publicly know what was discussed between UConn and the NCAA and when. Often schools with NCAA guidance read the tea leaves and self impose punishment consistent with the NCAA past practices and investigation communications.

 

[CL82]

Except KO has 2 contracts, and his union contract has been ruled in effect by the arbiter and has a higher standard for cause. JC may be relevant due to the equal treatment standard.

Kind of. It has a higher standard of proof but a lower ground for discharge, failing to meet expected standards, IIRC.

 

[Zissou]

He was fired before the NCAA announced the 3 year ban but the record was consistent with that punishment and we don’t publicly know what was discussed between UConn and the NCAA and when. Often schools with NCAA guidance read the tea leaves and self impose punishment consistent with the NCAA past practices and investigation communications.

And was fired before his contractual due process. Hurley and the search firm will be deposed to show that they were hiring a replacement before KO even had his due process, before “cause” was properly established.

That lends strength to the argument that KO was fired and replaced for performance regardless of the cause due process. The cause is just to determine if contractual payment is required.

 

[CL82]

And was fired before his contractual due process. Hurley and the search firm will be deposed to show that they were hiring a replacement before KO even had his due process, before “cause” was properly established.

The procedure for discharge was followed to the letter. That issue isn't in dispute.

Kevin's union representation made the claim that no new coach could be hired until KO had exhausted his review. They dropped it shortly after. That was 2.5 basketball seasons ago.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And was fired before his contractual due process. Hurley and the search firm will be deposed to show that they were hiring a replacement before KO even had his due process, before “cause” was properly established.

That lends strength to the argument that KO was fired and replaced for performance regardless of the cause due process. The cause is just to determine if contractual payment is required.

What is with these old, tired arguments? The "for cause" firing is an option in UConn's favor, they can choose to do so or not. They did. They are permitted to consider performance in determining whether to exercise their termination rights for cause.

As for due process, they made a determination and fired him. He appealed and lost that internal appeal. They are not required to wait until Ollie's dispute process concludes to look for a new coach. Otherwise they still would not have one. The arbitrator ruled that the union contract applies, but nothing in that contract conflicts with the more specific obligations in his coaching contract.

 

[mauconnfan]

Is your signed 8 x 10 glossy of KO for sale?

Nope it's a picture with my son in it from a camp. But what a solid comeback for a 13 year old, impressive.

 

[Zissou]

Former UConn basketball coach Kevin Ollie wins ruling on union protection in fight over firing

The arbitrator in the dispute between UConn and Kevin Ollie has ruled that the former basketball coach is protected by a union contract when it comes to the standard the school must meet in proving…

www.courant.com

The arbitrator in the dispute between UConn and Kevin Ollie has ruled that the former basketball coach is protected by a union contract when it comes to the standard the school must meet in proving his firing was justified.

The collective bargaining agreement between the school and the American Association of University Professors, of which Ollie is a member, requires a showing of serious misconduct in order to fire an employee for "just cause" and also affords Ollie other union protections

UConn had argued that Ollie's personal contract superseded the union deal, allowing it to fire him in March, 2018 for a broader range of offenses.
Arbitrator Marcia Greenbaum, in a decision filed on July 31, found that neither Ollie nor the union waived his union protections when signing his latest contract.

The arbitrator plans hearings to determine whether UConn fired Ollie for just cause, or if he is owed more than $10 million that was left on his contract, which was through June 30, 2021.

"Serious misconduct is the standard that now has to be proved by the university," said Michael Bailey, executive director of UConn's chapter of the AAUP. "I think, as the arbitrator said in her discussion, that is a heavy burden to be placed on the university."

 

[Zissou]

There is some bravado around here that KO's lawyers are incompetent and that UConn will win this open and shut.

I don't know one way or the other, and honestly none of us know enough details to know the strength of the legal arguments. I do know from experience the uncertainty of outcomes. I'm less invested in who's right and more pragmatically considering the risks. They should have settled early.

If UConn losses the arbitration it will be another costly blunder.

 

[CL82]

There is some bravado around here that KO's lawyers are incompetent and that UConn will win this open and shut.

I don't know one way or the other, and honestly none of us know enough details to know the strength of the legal arguments. I do know from experience the uncertainty of outcomes. I'm less invested in who's right and more pragmatically considering the risks. They should have settled early.

If UConn losses the arbitration it will be another costly blunder.

Hmmm, I'm not seeing any bravado. I do see some people talking about the facts of the case. They are very clearly in UConn's favor.

If UConn loses the arbitration it will just have pay the remainder of Kevin's contract something that you've advocated for, well at least paying 80% of of the amount left on the contract when he was terminated.

What are the other costly blunders which you feel UConn has committed?

 

[Madmannsucks]

While the AD technically gets credit for the hiring, Ollie was hand-picked as the successor by Calhoun himself. A white man. I think we all agree it has nothing to do with race. It seems to be the only angle left for Ollie to try and get something. It doesn’t appear to be working.

The basis of the case is being treated differently for similar actions. Which is NOT equivalent to being fired because of his race.