Dream Jobbed 2.0
“Most definitely”
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Is it as it relates to Calhoun violations and retention or as prez of NCAA??
Kevin Ollie’s lawyers ask for depositions from NCAA president Mark Emmert and national search firm as contract dispute with UConn
- Thread starter Ajs120102
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Nothing per se to do w/ Calhoun's violations: The proposed interrogatories are here:
Agree w/Chief..JC went to the wall for KO.. Did everything he could to leverage his own good will with the University to get KO hired..Pulled it off.. Ball was then in KO's court to perform on that opportunity..After 2014 season.. Didn't work out too well.. Looking forward to a successful 2020 season and new Tournament stories..
CL82
NCAA Woman's Basketball National Champions
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The thing that kills me is that is that arbitration is intended to be an expedited procedure for a more rapid resolution of the matter. The arbitrator's decision to allow a very broad discovery has dragged this matter to crawl and has allowed KO's representation to leverage the process to be as disruptive as possible. The requested documents look to be thousands of pages which will need to reviewed by both counsel. It seems like a needlessly expensive fishing expedition largely designed to look to ways for impeach Glenn Miller.
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ctchamps
We are UConn!! 6 >>>1!
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????
He's gonna need $10 million just to pay them.
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So why haven’t they done it yet?
Folks here seem to think this is a done deal slam dunk for the AD, but if that’s the case, why are we still dealing with this nonsense years after the fact.
People settle not because they’re always right, but because they know it’s better to move on. The program’s rep has taken a hit, whether we wanna admit it or not.
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I disagree. NOBODY cares. When UConn is brought up on the national scene, no one is talking about this situation. the conversations about UConn are centered around the Big East, Hurley, James Bouknight, and our return to prominence. Again, NOBODY cares. Ollie is the one who's taken the perception hit. He'll never get a major coaching opportunity in the NCAA ever again
CL82
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I would be amazed if Keven has not been deposed. Both sides also have a transcript of his NCAA tesitimony.
Because Ollie's counsel realize that they lose on the merits so they are extending the process as long as they can in the hope that UConn gets tired of the process and settles. They have been aided by the arbiter allowing broad discovery.
The program hasn't been hurt by this in the least. Initially, it took some heat but once the NCAA gave a three year show cause to Ollie, public opinion turned. Ollie's reputation has been been absolutely decimated. That is a largely due to his representation asking for documents via OPRA rather than regular discovery. They leaked their OPRA request to the press. They press then made a duplicate request and UConn was bound by law to release it. It was an incredibly dumb mistake. They then went on to let the statute for a claim in court lapse.
When this thing is all over, KO won't get any more money, he'll have alienated Jim Calhoun and the university, and have made himself a pariah in college basketball. None of that needed to happen. I wonder if KO will look to representation for redress. He probably should.
nadav
I hit skins for the hell of it
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That’s just not true. That team got smashed by Louisville twice at the end of the season and should have lost in the first round of the dance. He turned them around and never stopped pushing his guys. I wish he would just go away....but he did an awesome job his first two seasons.
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He was fired because of performance, UConn is trying not to pay him because of violations
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UConn *doesnt have to pay him because of violations
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I’d say he was fired for a combination of performance and violations. If he didn’t commit any violations, I don’t think he would’ve been fired when he was. If he won and still committed those violations, I don’t think he would’ve been fired when he was. Still, I don’t think there’s any argument over whether or not violations were committed and for that he’s not getting paid.
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Nobody outside of CT. gives a s***.
Couldn't disagree more. Calhoun was a part of the team even then, was in his office everyday, and don't forget the assistant coaches, Glen Miller, Ricky Moore and Karl Hobbs. As a game coach I'll give him a passing grade, but as a teacher he stunk up the joint. Some players, and players parents especially, hated him, not to mention Miller too. Chris Daily could have coached the men's team and still won in 2014, and as a recruiter on his own, Ollie had trouble getting all of his top targets, even as the reigning national champion.
C
Chief00
In terms of damages does it really matter why he was fired, since the NCAA wouldn’t let him coach college games anyways?
There’s no way he could perform his contract obligations, since he couldn’t coach, oversee practices or recruit. In a sense, everything else is moot.
As for the deposition, I think, I recall he did one for the NCAA, although they may call it an interview. UConn could do a much broader deposition that likely would open up subjects not currently in the record. Maybe there’s need to wait until the arbitration is over, if the lawsuit remains, but why UConn agreed to this arbitrator who is allowing arbitration to drag out for years, doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in our squad.
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Chief00
Kevin, loss his focus and did not put the work in. He had a good thing going but he thought Calhoun was getting too much credit for his success. So he kicked Calhoun out of practices and listening to his counsel - and the downhill descent began, further turbo charged by personal issues. KO would have been so much better off sharing some credit and keeping that old *er around. He would still be making $3.5 million a year.
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I don't see this as hardball for UConn. They are going through the motions and clearly not settling. This is not negatively impacting recruiting, scheduling, or performance for the program. The only people getting excited about this type of news are the Syracuse media.
Ollie on the other hand is wasting time. The longer he goes without coaching the harder it will be to get a job and the longer this goes on the more money he is draining. That's on him and quite frankly its sad to watch.
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Doing a crappy job such that it becomes a defensive shield hardly makes any sense. Basically, he’s arguing I was really fired for doing a piss poor job, and they used violations as a pretext. The problem is violations occurred, so pretext doesn’t matter. The sole exception is if there was discriminatory intent, which, under our whacky system, takes what is plainly legal on its face and flips it on its head with suspect classes. Thus, the discrimination claim. The fact that he was black when he was hired does not prove non-discrimination after the fact. These are abusive and desperate maneuvers designed, as someone else noted, to protract the process, drive up costs, and create larger liability exposure (treble damages, recovery of attorney’s fees) to force UConn to capitulate. KO should have settled for a few million long ago. The most the university would ever pay is perhaps $1 to 2 Million, maybe a little more in a structured settlement. Good counsel would have gotten him maybe 500k a year paid out over 5 years long ago, or perhaps $1Million up front and the rest scheduled out.
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So having a coach who performs poorly and looking at the contract and discussing "Ollie is doing a crappy job coaching and we need to get rid of him, can we use anything in the contract to get rid of him and not pay" and coming to the violations as a way to me is playing hardball.
If you are saying that if Ollie got UConn to the elite 8 in his last year UConn would have taken the same course of action then I don't agree. He was fired for being a poor coach and the NCAA issues were just a way to get it done without paying him.
So you're saying that it's no big deal to UConn that this is going on, I'm sure it's not helping with basketball alumni relations and since it isn't over yet we will see what comes out in the end. How much do you think it has cost UConn in legal fees so far and lost donations from basketball alumni?
Part of the best and worst of US legal system is you can sue for all kinds of real and perceived wrongs and the other party needs to respond (and pay whatever that costs). Ollies BATNA is keep the pressure on.
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This statement gets to the heart of the matter. I think most perceive this to be true.
Further, there is an appearance that UConn worked with the NCAA to build the cause case, for their own self interest not to pay Kevin. The result was a hand slap an the program but valuable leverage in a case to not pay Kevin. Getting the NCAA account of those communications into the record could be interesting.
This can only be finally assessed when it is done. For now not settling on both sides seems like a reckless all-or-nothing gamble. IMO UConn should have settled at an 80% payout. UConn dug in a low ball number, and Kevin dug in not to accept.
The “bad press” is real, but it is honestly limited. It leaves the impression lingering of a slightly corrupt program, and a slightly inept management. The outcome will spin the perception further. A spilt decision keeps that status quo. If Kevin shows unequal treatment in a protected class, or collusion between the program and the NCAA, and wins, then it’s a big black eye for UConn. If UConn scores a complete victory then Goliath beat David and only a little stain remains.
Pitt pulled the same charade in firing Stallings. They smeared him and eventually settled. Low class.
Wake just fired Manning for performance. My guess is they pay the man, and just accept their financial responsibility.
Someone signed up Kevin for a term longer than they later desired. Most believe that if Kevin made final fours in his last 2 years then he would not have been fired. One of UConn’s perception challenges is this point that seems obvious. Kevin was fired for performance. UConn is not paying him because they think the cause claim can allow them not to pay him. Maybe UConn is right. We’ll see. Paying 80% would have allowed a quick and clean end without the remaining risk.
UConn has taken legal stands before, like suing BC. Sometimes diplomacy is a better path.
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This is the dumbest post in this thread so if you were going for that well done! Chris Dailey even being mentioned shows complete ignorance.
The guys that led the Huskies to the title were hardly part of JC's teams minus Shabazz. Daniels got better, Giffey much more impact, Boat was better, Nolan was a piece as were others under KO. Kromah was a solid pick up/player off the bench used nicely, Brimah was a piece as was Samuel at key times. Bazz was better his last 2 years under KO after a sophomore season in which he had trouble leading (team was a pain though not all on him but he whined too), certainly became a better leader under KO. The only reason anyone would say just a "passing grade" is pure hatred for the man for how he finished. Otherwise you're just blind to the really good job he did for 2-3 years. After that throw all the rubbage you want at the man it's well deserved, but give him his due.
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CL82
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I think the analysis is more like this:
Employee X is a bad employee and is not meeting their objectives. Employer discovers that employee X not only is a poor employee, but also has been breaking outside regulations which could cause the business to be sanctioned. Employer then finds out that employee X has been lying to them about these violations and then finds out that employee X has also been lying to regulatory authorities who sanction both employee X and the business.
Employee X gets fired 10 times out of 10, regardless of the business.
The suggestion that the University of Connecticut has done something wrong in following exactly this pattern seems like a pretty big stretch, don’t you think? The notion that employee X wants to be paid in full for not working, after performing so poorly and jeopardizing the business seems ridiculous, don’t you think?
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That's what's always been so crazy to me in all of this. Not only is it incredibly s****y to push away your mentor who gave you the job and taught you everything you know but the arrogance of not wanting to lean on and learn from arguably ths greatest college coach ever is just unbelievable.
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Will Wade, Sean Miller... we could make a long list of cheating coaches that don’t get fired.
10 times out of 10 times is not correct. Also in non-sports business.
Those two were meeting their working objectives to a large extent. As many have pointed out, Ollie is probably still around if he was still doing his job and minimally meeting objectives. Bad analogy.
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Chief00
I think calling Larry Brown to Storrs to observe the team/game was the final slap in the face to Jim Calhoun. When you have, I would argue, a better resource in-house, why do that in such a public way?
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Winning the National Championship with the 2014 team was no easy task. Keep in mind, KO went up against Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan, and John Calipari on his way to winning the Championship. That is impressive when you think about it considering those are hall of fame or soon to be hall of fame coaches. Its just a shame what happened from that point on. We all thought our success with recruiting and winning was going to take off like a rocket. That obviously was not the case.
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