Kelly Faris and All American consideration | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Kelly Faris and All American consideration

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jplotinus said:
Oh joy, another claim of "etiquette" violation. I don't have a tape of the segment, as I imagine you do, as you appear to have quoted it in detail.

As a matter if etiquette, then, and In order properly to resolve this conundrum, permit me to politely request you post the segment in the thread via YouTube, assuming there's a legally postable version to be had. I posted from memory of the moment, as this is a friendly chat and not a formal hearing in the Star Chamber. As I sit here today, I remember the exchange as I posted it. I accurately recounted the impression it made on me. Granted, my hearing may have been selective. It was, afterall, a basketball game.

Perhaps the dialogue is as you say it it is but that is not how it struck me at the time.

Unless and until you post a YouTube version, this matter will remain unresolved. After you post it and I listen to it in the light of day and on the basis of reason, I may recant,confess,plead guilty or stand firm as the case may be.
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Well if you look at what I posted from bruin and ice, it is pretty much the exact opposite of what you implied. I'll trust them before I trust you. (you're record isn't that good)

And it's not an etiquette violation. It's being misleading or flat out lying.

Or if you confuse "Probably not and that's a shame" with "No" (and disrespecting Faris), then we'll be nice and just say you are easily (very easily) confused.
 
jplotinus said:
Nothing I posted was intended as a criticism of Ward.
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Like hell it wasn't. Your whole post was a shot at her. Now you are flat out lying. (again it would seem)
 
meyers7 said:
Well if you look at what I posted from bruin and ice, it is pretty much the exact opposite of what you implied. I'll trust them before I trust you. (you're record isn't that good)

And it's not an etiquette violation. It's being misleading or flat out lying.

Or if you confuse "Probably not and that's a shame" with "No" (and disrespecting Faris), then we'll be nice and just say you are easily (very easily) confused.
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You may have more invested in this aspect of the discussion than I do. You appear to me to be doing a delicate tap dance seeking perhaps to invite a similar ad hominem touching reply.

No thanks.

I'm here invested in urging AA consideration for KELLY FARIS.

You may post as you please. If there's something I've said now or in the past that caused you injury, I hope your healing process will quicken.

Blessings
 
jplotinus said:
You may have more invested in this aspect of the discussion than I do. You appear to me to be doing a delicate tap dance seeking perhaps to invite a similar ad hominem touching reply.

No thanks.

I'm here invested in urging AA consideration for KELLY FARIS.

You may post as you please. If there's something I've said now or in the past that caused you injury, I hope your healing process will quicken.

Blessings
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I just take exception with people who mislead or lie. Call it a pet peeve if you will. (also people who appear to be disingenuous)
 
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Bigpetunia said:
Can we now, at long last, officially proclaim the Children's Hour on this board over and done with?
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Nice try, Bigpetunia. But Mr/Ms Missouri (you know, folks from the "Show Me" state) probably won't let this die until he/she gets the proof. However, I think ESPN and the YouTubes might frown on the unauthorized rebroadcast, in whole or in part, of ESPN's copyrighted broadcast.
 
AndyCT said:
Not a question of etiquette but rather integrity.

I’m no fan of Pam Ward but you have to be fair – she did not say “No.” What Ward said was, “Probably not and that’s a shame,” which is a whole different spin than “No.”

She followed that with, “Certainly one of the best all-around players in the country…”

And after Rebecca said, “At least deserves consideration,” Pam followed with “Yep…again you look at her numbers on this team, in double figures scoring, leads them in assists, leads them in steals, second in the nation in assist-to-turnover ratio, does all those things, plays as hard in the 39th minute as she does in the first minute.”

That really can’t be characterized as “still no positive response” – quite the opposite, it sounds like Pam Ward gets how valuable Kelly is. Ward had nothing but praise for Kelly all night long.

And since you apparently have internet access, you don’t need a Youtube clip. The entire game is on ESPN3, and this particular discussion occurs about 1:55 into the game with just under a minute left.
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This matches my recollection, and I think you have transcribed it word for word.

Whether you hear the actual words or not, I am not sure how you interpret "probably not and that's a shame" as anything other than acknowledging the qualities and importance of a player like Kelly and how she is deserving of recognition.
 
I hate locking threads so everyone is going to give up and agree to disagree or discuss the topic civilly or else I will be forced to close off discussion.
 
HuskyNan said:
I hate locking threads so everyone is going to give up and agree to disagree or discuss the topic civilly or else I will be forced to close off discussion.
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I toned my post down, Nan. Sorry... I had a bad day at work...and will put the OP back on ignore so I don't allow myself to get pulled in to the silliness.
 
meyers7 said:
I just take exception with people who mislead or lie. Call it a pet peeve if you will. (also people who appear to be disingenuous)
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For me it just becomes sermon material.
 
HuskyNan said:
I hate locking threads so everyone is going to give up and agree to disagree or discuss the topic civilly or else I will be forced to close off discussion.
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Sorry Nan. Figured you might get pulled into this eventually. But like I said, it's one of my pet peeves. (I was actually trying to be nice as to how I really feel about him/her.:cool:)

I'll be quiet now.
 
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DishNSwish said:
Delle Donne.
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Maybe. What has she done against top 10 teams or AA opponents? (That's a request for info, not a shot. I really don't know who Delaware has played this season and how/if DellaDonne has played against top caliber opponents.)
 
Ive said it a few times. If Kelly develops an outside shot she could be one of the best players in WCBB. You look at Kelly stats and shes there. I would love to see her average 20 a game and continue to put up her other stats then how could they keep her off the AA list? Who do they drop. IMO before the season is over. KML Kelly Stef and Bria will be at seasons end AAs. Breanna will be the FOY. Now think about this. Next season Bria healthly, Stef, Breanna KML. How do you keep them off the AA list? You dont unless your anti UConn.
 
hoopsdiva said:
Maybe. What has she done against top 10 teams or AA opponents? (That's a request for info, not a shot. I really don't know who Delaware has played this season and how/if DellaDonne has played against top caliber opponents.)
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She's missed six games with her illness, and is averaging 24 pts and nine rebounds on the year. She had 19 points on 7-19 shooting and six boards in a loss to Maryland which was right after she came back. She had 17 and 12 on 6-19 shooting in a low-scoring win over Villanova (59-44 or so). He had 29 and 16 including the buzzer-beater in a one-point OT win over St. John's (which is down a bit), but shot 7-23. She did not play against Georgetown, when they lost a pretty close one (59-52 or so) without her.

She just had 38 on 14-20 shooting in her last game (albeit against their last place team in their league), so she seems to be back in form. Delaware is 13-3 with nothing but league games left on their schedule.

She's missed a lot of games and hasn't had great shooting nights against her top opponents. My take is she'll still be an A-A on reputation and a lifetime achievement sort of thing - voters will use the illness as a way to cut her some slack for the holes in her resume.
 
jplotinus said:
In Duke game ESPN coverage, as Kelly was on her way to an impressive double-double, while simultaneously playing shut-down defense against the vaunted Chelsea Gray, Rebecca Lobo asked "should Kelly Faris receive AA consideration?"

Answer: "No"

Rebecca followed up with "consieration at least?"

Still no positive response.

That is not right. If Kelly continues her present path of stellar all around play, and shut-down defense of opponents' best player, game in and game out, AA honors should follow. There was no basis for a "No" answer on a national telecast, no less, when Kelly had just posted a double/double and when Chelsea Gray was sitting on the bench looking like a deer in the path of oncoming headlights.

I protest!

:-/
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This is a late response. But why would anybody give credence to Pam Ward's observation. She is a second tier announcer with no real basketball insight.

I was disappointed that Rebecca , a hall of famer and respected analyst should even ask Ward the question. She should have stated her opinion which I am sure was that Kelly clearly played like an AA.

IMO the Duke game is Kelly's AA coming out game. Everyone who saw her on national TV saw one of the all time great performances in WCBB.

If Kelly continues to play at this level she will be an AA as will KML.
 
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Early in this thread, discussing skilled defensive bb players, it was inevitable that Bill Russell's name popped up. He was, of course, incomparable but he had some help. Satch Saunders, for one.

Russ also learned a bit about mind games from the master, Red Auerbach. In his book, Russ tells how he once gave Satch some unorthodox help. In a game with the Knicks when Bill Bradley was lighting Satch up for three quarters. Someone was about to shoot a free throw, but just before they did, Russ walked across the lane and got in Satch's face (Bradley beside him, within earshot).

Russ, loudly and nastily to Satch: "Can't you guard this m----r f----r?"

Bradley (Princeton/Rhodes Scholar/Oxford/later US Senate) was shocked! He also went scoreless in the fourth quarter.
 
Kibitzer said:
Early in this thread, discussing skilled defensive bb players, it was inevitable that Bill Russell's name popped up. He was, of course, incomparable but he had some help. Satch Saunders, for one.

Russ also learned a bit about mind games from the master, Red Auerbach. In his book, Russ tells how he once gave Satch some unorthodox help. In a game with the Knicks when Bill Bradley was lighting Satch up for three quarters. Someone was about to shoot a free throw, but just before they did, Russ walked across the lane and got in Satch's face (Bradley beside him, within earshot).

Russ, loudly and nastily to Satch: "Can't you guard this m----r f----r?"

Bradley (Princeton/Rhodes Scholar/Oxford/later US Senate) was shocked! He also went scoreless in the fourth quarter.
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There is basketball analysis, and then there is basketball insight.

The above is both the former and the latter.

:-)
 
Hands down an All Amercan, epitomizes an all around basketball player who does anything for her team, the type of player every coach wants on the floor.
 
speedoo said:
It was that idiot Pam Ward. Terrible PBP announcer and now she exposes herself as someone who knows nothing about basketball.
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Why blame Pam? She was right.
The vast majority of voters don't understand or recognize what Kelly does. The intangibles just aren't rewarded.
Look at the Heisman winners; only ball handlers are eligible.
 
Sonny44 said:
Why blame Pam? She was right.
The vast majority of voters don't understand or recognize what Kelly does. The intangibles just aren't rewarded.
Look at the Heisman winners; only ball handlers are eligible.
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Statistics, in general, do not measure defense. Box scores generally do not and cannot provide information as to which player guarded which opposing player.

Until this year, I liked Faris as a player, but I did not see the "special qualities" that Geno and the Boneyard faithful saw. Against Stanford, I started to see it. Against Duke, it was (painfully) obvious. She shut down one of the best point guards in the country (and the best pure passer in the country). She did not just hold her to bad shooting; she literally took her out of the game so much that Gray had to be moved off the ball to shooting guard.

Faris made Gray look like a high school freshman playing in her first state tournament. That cannot be measured in a box score. The fact that she went for a double-double, racked up several assists, and survived a chest bump from Geno (incidentally, how hysterical and adorable was that moment) gets my vote.

Reminded me of Duke in 2006-2007 and the undefeated regular season. Abby Waner was the team's leading scorer and also led in steals; she was the heart of the offense. But the glue of the team, the All-American on defense, and the juggernaut that allowed Waner to be Waner was Lindsey Harding, much in the same way Faris is doing that for KML.
 
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CamrnCrz1974 said:
Statistics, in general, do not measure defense. Box scores generally do not and cannot provide information as to which player guarded which opposing player.

Until this year, I liked Faris as a player, but I did not see the "special qualities" that Geno and the Boneyard faithful saw. Against Stanford, I started to see it. Against Duke, it was (painfully) obvious. She shut down one of the best point guards in the country (and the best pure passer in the country). She did not just hold her to bad shooting; she literally took her out of the game so much that Gray had to be moved off the ball to shooting guard.

Faris made Gray look like a high school freshman playing in her first state tournament. That cannot be measured in a box score. The fact that she went for a double-double, racked up several assists, and survived a chest bump from Geno (incidentally, how hysterical and adorable was that moment) gets my vote.

Reminded me of Duke in 2006-2007 and the undefeated regular season. Abby Waner was the team's leading scorer and also led in steals; she was the heart of the offense. But the glue of the team, the All-American on defense, and the juggernaut that allowed Waner to be Waner was Lindsey Harding, much in the same way Faris is doing that for KML.
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Thanks Cam.. Almost as impressive as what she did with Gray was the shutdown of Maryland's Alyssa Thomas, which was significant in that Kelly gave up about 4" in height.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
Statistics, in general, do not measure defense. Box scores generally do not and cannot provide information as to which player guarded which opposing player.

Until this year, I liked Faris as a player, but I did not see the "special qualities" that Geno and the Boneyard faithful saw. Against Stanford, I started to see it. Against Duke, it was (painfully) obvious. She shut down one of the best point guards in the country (and the best pure passer in the country). She did not just hold her to bad shooting; she literally took her out of the game so much that Gray had to be moved off the ball to shooting guard.

Faris made Gray look like a high school freshman playing in her first state tournament. That cannot be measured in a box score. The fact that she went for a double-double, racked up several assists, and survived a chest bump from Geno (incidentally, how hysterical and adorable was that moment) gets my vote.

Reminded me of Duke in 2006-2007 and the undefeated regular season. Abby Waner was the team's leading scorer and also led in steals; she was the heart of the offense. But the glue of the team, the All-American on defense, and the juggernaut that allowed Waner to be Waner was Lindsey Harding, much in the same way Faris is doing that for KML.
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Great post.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
Statistics, in general, do not measure defense. Box scores generally do not and cannot provide information as to which player guarded which opposing player.

Until this year, I liked Faris as a player, but I did not see the "special qualities" that Geno and the Boneyard faithful saw. Against Stanford, I started to see it. Against Duke, it was (painfully) obvious. She shut down one of the best point guards in the country (and the best pure passer in the country). She did not just hold her to bad shooting; she literally took her out of the game so much that Gray had to be moved off the ball to shooting guard.

Faris made Gray look like a high school freshman playing in her first state tournament. That cannot be measured in a box score. The fact that she went for a double-double, racked up several assists, and survived a chest bump from Geno (incidentally, how hysterical and adorable was that moment) gets my vote.

Reminded me of Duke in 2006-2007 and the undefeated regular season. Abby Waner was the team's leading scorer and also led in steals; she was the heart of the offense. But the glue of the team, the All-American on defense, and the juggernaut that allowed Waner to be Waner was Lindsey Harding, much in the same way Faris is doing that for KML.
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You are an extraordinary individual, Cam...
 
OneTrickPony said:
You are an extraordinary individual, Cam...
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Please let's not feed his ego. He's a good guy, who doesn't have quite the insane sense of entitlement or self importance that most of the Duke men's fans have. Plus he's a laywer (ugh!). Don't ever get into an argument with him! ;)
 
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