Kansas

[MU in MKE]

Please define the "Adjust Efficiency Margin" and define what it means and how it is calculated

Sorry, typo. Should have read as: "Adjusted Efficiency Margin"

Adjusted Efficiency Margin is the final numerical metric that Ken Pomeroy uses to rank the quality of a team. It combines the adjusted offense and defense numbers (points per possession adjusted by opponent), tempo, luck, and strength of schedule. See here: 2021 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

 

[HuskyHawk]

If the schools they’re bringing in are so valuable, why wasn’t the AAC earning higher media payouts?

The notion that schools are "valuable" and must "bring x value" is utter nonsense. What is valuable is matchups. Houston vs Baylor is far more valuable than Houston vs. East Carolina. The AAC stunk because it could rarely create any compelling matchups. The SEC is great in part because almost every game qualifies. Cinci vs West Virginia is going to be something people will watch in a way Cinci vs Temple isn't.

I am not saying UT and OU don't matter, they absolutely do because they drive those watchable matchups and have a lot of fans. But the Pac struggles to create good matchups that have appeal as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wait, so Colorado and Utah left a Big 12 with OU and TX but if Cincy and UCF prove to be “good” they’ll consider rejoining?

Lmao whoever tweeted that must have been high. In no world does Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU make that conference more appealing (competitively or financially) than it was with OU and TX.

National brands are what drive high dollar tv deals. Unless the “eastern” PAC teams prefer less money, playing in a conference with UCLA and USC will be more lucrative than a conference with Cincy and Houston.

That isn't the point at all. They expected it to fall apart, and would then pick from the ashes. The Pac is already in no better shape than the Big 12 was, it's USC and Oregon, and USC like Texas is underperforming. The games are almost all Pacific time and are less valuable nationally as a result. The Pac desperately needs to move east. The only reason it survived this long is that the west coast teams are too far to be poached. But Colorado could be poached, and Utah, and the Arizona schools.

Remember as well, teams left the Big 12 because they couldn't stand being in a league where Texas dominated.

 

[McLovin]

The notion that schools are "valuable" and must "bring x value" is utter nonsense. What is valuable is matchups. Houston vs Baylor is far more valuable than Houston vs. East Carolina. The AAC stunk because it could rarely create any compelling matchups. The SEC is great in part because almost every game qualifies. Cinci vs West Virginia is going to be something people will watch in a way Cinci vs Temple isn't.

I am not saying UT and OU don't matter, they absolutely do because they drive those watchable matchups and have a lot of fans. But the Pac struggles to create good matchups that have appeal as well.

UCF, Memphis, UConn, SMU, Cincy, Houston, Tulsa and Wichita State were all Top 25 ranked teams, each over multiple seasons during their tenure in the AAC. The top half of the league always had multiple ranked teams. But even for most of the top match-ups (i.e. Houston vs Cincy) the ESPN networks stuck on ESPNU at 9PM on a week night...

I agree that Houston vs Baylor is a better TV match-up than Houston vs ECU, but that doesn't matter. What matters is is that match-up now more marketable than Oklahoma vs Kentucky? Or Texas vs Florida? The networks are going to put their biggest brands on their best networks. That effects viewership. And that effects money.

The Big 12 will do better than the "old" AAC did, mostly because the bottom of the league are larger schools with larger fan bases. But they are going to see their TV contracts and primetime slots cut dramatically. If you want to get fired up for Iowa State vs UCF at 9PM on ESPNU, go for it. Because that's the future for the Big12.

 

[hank970]

It wouldn’t surprise me if in a few years the Pac-12 adds Texas Tech (most popular brand in West Texas) and Kansas.

Texas Tech is the only brand in west Texas, if indeed it's a brand. There's a lot of in-between out there on Llano Estacado (they dubbed it the Staked Plains because the place is so featureless it's almost impossible to navigate without some kind of man-made reference). The only hills are made by ants. Yeah, Lubbock. Even the name is boring.

 

[uconnfan68]

they had every opp to add TT and TCU. apparently they came close with those 2 but decided otherwise. if the PAC ever has schools poached it's not gonna be to a big12 w/o UT and OU

There were rumors for years of Texas going to the Pac-12, and/or to the B1G… and bringing someone with them… but never imagined OU, and not to the SEC.

 

[UCSouth]

Here's an old NCAA Tournament box score from 2005; when UConn (out of the old Big East) took on UCF (out of the ATLANTIC SUN).

Connecticut vs. Central Florida Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Connecticut vs. Central Florida Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005

www.sports-reference.com

It's amazing to think that less than 20 years later, the old Big East died and along with it the "Big 6" designation for UConn. Consequently, UConn plays Butler, Creighton, and Xavier. OTOH, UCF is now a P5 and playing Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Houston, etc, every year in the BIG XII.

Congratulations...you have achieved Troll Status of the Highest Order

 

[BUConn10]

If you guys think Kansas is in a worse spot going forward in college athletics power structure going forward than we are then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

 

[HuskyHawk]

UCF, Memphis, UConn, SMU, Cincy, Houston, Tulsa and Wichita State were all Top 25 ranked teams, each over multiple seasons during their tenure in the AAC. The top half of the league always had multiple ranked teams. But even for most of the top match-ups (i.e. Houston vs Cincy) the ESPN networks stuck on ESPNU at 9PM on a week night...

I agree that Houston vs Baylor is a better TV match-up than Houston vs ECU, but that doesn't matter. What matters is is that match-up now more marketable than Oklahoma vs Kentucky? Or Texas vs Florida? The networks are going to put their biggest brands on their best networks. That effects viewership. And that effects money.

The Big 12 will do better than the "old" AAC did, mostly because the bottom of the league are larger schools with larger fan bases. But they are going to see their TV contracts and primetime slots cut dramatically. If you want to get fired up for Iowa State vs UCF at 9PM on ESPNU, go for it. Because that's the future for the Big12.

You are talking basketball. The Big12 is even better at that. I’m talking football. Houston playing Baylor, TT and TCU, plus OK State is better TV than their AAC games. Iowa State just played Iowa in a matchup of #9 vs #10 in football.

You’re delusional.

 

[Hoophound]

Kansas is definitely better off than us as of today. We need to restore football and we should find a spot in a good all sports conference down the road. If the university chooses not to fund football properly, we should probably just throw in the towel when that happens.

 

[Huskymagic]

At this point, it would be smart of the PAC 12 to add Kansas and Oklahoma State to put the final knockout to the Big 12.

Kansas and Ok State have plenty of value and growth potential in all sports including football. Both schools are better than the bottom schools of both the PAC 12 and ACC and more valuable.

As commissioner of PAC 12, I would definitely expand with these 2 schools.

 

[bendm]

As commissioner of PAC 12, I would definitely expand with these 2 schools.

but you aren't and the real commissioner of the PAC12 did not and it was down to TT and TCU not KU.

 

[Huskymagic]

but you aren't and the real commissioner of the PAC12 did not and it was down to TT and TCU not KU.

Texas Tech and TCU are nowhere near as valuable as Kansas or Ok State in the present. In the present setup and with the additions, the Big 12 has the ability to persist as a power conference in all sports. Good for them.

Take Kansas and Oklahoma State away and they become the AAC.

The Big East needs to be proactive in having talks with Gonzaga in the short term and Kansas in the medium term to the Big East.

 

[John]

Texas Tech and TCU are nowhere near as valuable as Kansas or Ok State in the present. In the present setup and with the additions, the Big 12 has the ability to persist as a power conference in all sports. Good for them.

Take Kansas and Oklahoma State away and they become the AAC.

The Big East needs to be proactive in having talks with Gonzaga in the short term and Kansas in the medium term to the Big East.

Kansas is even less of a good fit in the current Big East than we are.

 

[bendm]

Texas Tech and TCU are nowhere near as valuable as Kansas or Ok State in the present.

i'm sorry but you are just flat out wrong. if KU and OK st were more valuable than the PAC would have added them. instead it came down to TT and TCU. but please continue to profess your nonsense.

 

[gtcam]

Kansas in the NBE????
Boy, can't wait until the season starts so we can move away from these insipid discussions

 

[Fishy]

There were rumors for years of Texas going to the Pac-12, and/or to the B1G… and bringing someone with them… but never imagined OU, and not to the SEC.

Oklahoma and Texas were always going to be a package deal.

 

[Fishy]

At this point, it would be smart of the PAC 12 to add Kansas and Oklahoma State to put the final knockout to the Big 12.

Kansas and Ok State have plenty of value and growth potential in all sports including football. Both schools are better than the bottom schools of both the PAC 12 and ACC and more valuable.

As commissioner of PAC 12, I would definitely expand with these 2 schools.

This explains why you are not the commissioner of the Pac 12. They do not add any value to the Pac 12 which is why they are not going to the Pac 12.

i'm sorry but you are just flat out wrong. if KU and OK st were more valuable than the PAC would have added them. instead it came down to TT and TCU. but please continue to profess your nonsense.

This explains why you are not the commissioner of the Pac 12, but you’re closer to it than the other guy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

i'm sorry but you are just flat out wrong. if KU and OK st were more valuable than the PAC would have added them. instead it came down to TT and TCU. but please continue to profess your nonsense.

According to whom? TT is indeed the single west Texas school playing FBS football, so is arguably southwest. But it’s the bottom half of the remaining Big 12 teams and TCU is arguably rock bottom. Dead last. TCU is definitely not a target. Your suggestion is the nonsense.

 

[alphasigko]

Sorry, typo. Should have read as: "Adjusted Efficiency Margin"

Adjusted Efficiency Margin is the final numerical metric that Ken Pomeroy uses to rank the quality of a team. It combines the adjusted offense and defense numbers (points per possession adjusted by opponent), tempo, luck, and strength of schedule. See here: 2021 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

Thanks! It's nice to learn something new!

 

[AZHuskiePop]

but you aren't and the real commissioner of the PAC12 did not and it was down to TT and TCU not KU.

If TT comes as a surprise think again
It’s a public highly rated research University whose in West Texas Much of West Texas is closer to Arizona than Dallas or Houston.

 

[BapeKidd88]

The Big 12 will do better than the "old" AAC did, mostly because the bottom of the league are larger schools with larger fan bases. But they are going to see their TV contracts and primetime slots cut dramatically. If you want to get fired up for Iowa State vs UCF at 9PM on ESPNU, go for it. Because that's the future for the Big12.

Are you serious?
With all of the basketball tradition and cred that league has in it, a "Iowa State vs UCF" matchup is the last thing on their minds.

Look at all of the stinker matchups and small fanbases in the BE 4.0. (or NBE, whatever jargon you prefer)

The Big 12 has basically just let in Pitt (which was the BE 2.0), with the city schools Cincinnati and Houston (combined with a National fanbase in BYU and one of the bigger emerging fanbases in UCF)

Let's bookmark this thread. It's my opinion that UCF is going to surge in all-sports. Pope has BYU on the doorstep. Sampson has already broken down the door. Miller was the perfect choice for Cincinnati. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[bendm]

According to whom? TT is indeed the single west Texas school playing FBS football, so is arguably southwest. But it’s the bottom half of the remaining Big 12 teams and TCU is arguably rock bottom. Dead last. TCU is definitely not a target. Your suggestion is the nonsense.

this isnt my suggestion it was from Kliavkoff but you can look it up yourself. you cant see how adding 2 texas schools, including one in dallas, would be the most appealing for them in terms of recruiting territory?

 

[bendm]

This explains why you are not the commissioner of the Pac 12, but you’re closer to it than the other guy.

again i wasnt stating my opinion but repeating what i'd heard/read

 

[HuskyHawk]

this isnt my suggestion it was from Kliavkoff but you can look it up yourself. you cant see how adding 2 texas schools, including one in dallas, would be the most appealing for them in terms of recruiting territory?

Recruiting territory isn’t particularly relevant to expansion, unless you mean paying undergrads, that’s where the money is. TCU is a highly religious school. 9000 undergrads. It’s a good school but not really the PAC profile. TT has 33k undergrads. It attracts quite a few students from CA and Colorado. I don’t expect the PAC to look at any private religiously affiliated institutions, so that also includes Baylor. The PAC has zero chance of being meaningful in DFW, but they can take some territory in west Texas.

Of course they said expansion is off, so this is all moot for now.