Jeff Jacobs: Ollie Will Fight, But Can He Get Better Leading Program?

[BUConn10]

I'll let Tenspro answer this for himself if he chooses, but he has made arguments about a very explicit "Calhoun level" of success. From his posts, it's clear that coaching plays a role - "They find the coach who is going to deliver."

Jeff Jacobs: Ollie Will Fight, But Can He Get Better Leading Program? "Frankly, I think it was an insult to the program's history and a detriment to JC's own legacy that he forced upon us an unproven coach who it would take years to figure out how to run a program. That's not what elite programs do."

He wants the same levels of success JC frequently reached, and wants a coach who will get us there. How one can get there without a Calhoun-esque coach is beyond me...

For the one millionth time... Expecting a competently run program that has the near future in mind and properly planned for in recruiting while not forgetting about each incoming commit until they bail, mixed in with a "expectation" of an NCAA berth (in an easy, low competition conference no less) with little to no WTF losses is literally all I need to be extatic, which is a reflection of how far we are from that simple, basic request just stated. I don't need to be in the Champions Classic every year beating Duke and Kentucky and starting top 5 every November. I just want to turn on a UConn men's game and not have a "wtf" Kevin Ollie signature sideline face on for the entirety of our 2 hour games. I want to see some real basketball, I want to feel like when a shot goes up that it will actually have a good chance of going in and not feel like every 2 baskets we string together looks like a total accident, which has been the case for over 2 years now.

To sit here and say we are spoiled by putting words in a collective faction's mouth simply to prop up your straw man arguments is the core of this whole boneyard drama dichotomy. No one is asking for a final four every year (which as a matter of fact programs supposedly at UConn's tier DO expect annually), just a program run with competence.

I love Kevin Ollie the man, but his display of having a full grasp on every minute detail under his umbrella of responsibility at a high major men's basketball program is currently dismal. A coach not knowing three of his core players in a depleted roster already have a foot out of the door? That blindsides you? That should never happen, any leader of a team knows that personality management is basically the top duty for a coach of high level athletes. KO insisting he didnt ask anyone to leave and that he was blindsided by the transfers did not help paint a picture that he has a good grip on the things he literally gets paid to do.

It's 2017, the 2014 post-title honeymoon era is over.

 

[tykurez]

Take a look at what's happening up in Syracuse. They're entering the phase of their sanctions where they really start to feel the impact. They're having a hell of a time getting recruits right now, and it's not getting better. That's with a HOF coach and a schedule full of ACC opponents. That's why I have trouble understanding folks who brush off the sanctions we had, which have had their biggest impacts just these past few years.

How would Calhoun have navigated these past five years? Off brand-name alone, it's probably safe to assume he'd have a bit more success grabbing some kids. But we'll never really know how he would have performed on the recruiting trail, with limitations and reduced scholarships in place, trying to convince kids to come play in the AAC. To hold KO to those same standards is incredibly short-sighted.

Literally nobody has said a 16-17 season is acceptable. But there's a shocking amount of cognitive impairment in some of these takes.

 

[upstater]

Having a high standard for the program is different than expecting another Jim Calhoun on the sidelines and three national championships.

You're twisting his message. If other "blue blood" programs can have high expectations, we shouldn't feel any different. There pro KO camp thinks if he leaves, the program can't do any better. I don't believe that, but I hope he is the guy to do it.

To be fair, I didn't say they can't do better. I said it would be a rare thing to find a young up and comer who will get them to the top again.

 

[upstater]

One of the dumbest posts I've seen in a while. I didn't know how to respond, thanks for doing the dirty work on this one.

There are posts from you in 2014 saying Ollie better shape up or you will be calling for his head.

You were against the guy from the get-go.

 

[JMick]

Oh my God.

And people call me a moron here when I said people can't see the real context.

READ THIS POST UP ABOVE AND TELL ME THE DELUSIONS AMONG THE FIRE OLLIE FANS AREN'T TOTALLY WACKY.

You are unhinged. You are trying so hard to be a "realist" when in reality you are acting like we need to get to a bomb shelter because the world is about to blow up.

Sorry if I can't take you seriously when you've been here for 6 years and have a 2:1 messages:likes ratio. But it's everyone else that's dumb

 

[upstater]

You are unhinged. You are trying so hard to be a "realist" when in reality you are acting like we need to get to a bomb shelter because the world is about to blow up.

Sorry if I can't take you seriously when you've been here for 6 years and have a 2:1 messages:likes ratio. But it's everyone else that's dumb

Newsflash: UConn isn't Indiana, UCLA, or any of those other programs that were listed. You're either deluded or an absolute idiot if you believe that.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'll let Tenspro answer this for himself if he chooses, but he has made arguments about a very explicit "Calhoun level" of success. From his posts, it's clear that coaching plays a role - "They find the coach who is going to deliver."

Jeff Jacobs: Ollie Will Fight, But Can He Get Better Leading Program? "Frankly, I think it was an insult to the program's history and a detriment to JC's own legacy that he forced upon us an unproven coach who it would take years to figure out how to run a program. That's not what elite programs do."

He wants the same levels of success JC frequently reached, and wants a coach who will get us there. How one can get there without a Calhoun-esque coach is beyond me...

I would be happy to answer, always am.

Realistically, I don't expect "Calhoun level" success like we had from 1994-2009 or so. That was 10 #1/#2 seeds and 13 #5 seeds or better in 16 years. Absolutely extraordinary. That said, something like making the Tournament 3 years out of 4, #5 seed or better more often than not, #2 seed and legit contender 1/3 of the time, would be reasonable.

This program and its fanbase wants to be elite, and should act like it. I will defend to the death (metaphorically speaking) my statement you quoted above, that this program acted small-time in shoehorning in an inexperienced coach. Saying, today, "we can't do any better" is even more small-time. What other elite-program fanbase acts like this? The inferiority complex, Yankee Conference thinking in this crowd is astounding.

And yes, I think in college sports a program's success boils down to the head coach as the primary factor. Elite programs find the coach that meet their standards.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

To be fair, I didn't say they can't do better. I said it would be a rare thing to find a young up and comer who will get them to the top again.

I think finding a coach to get UConn back to the level we all want them to be at is going to be a challenge.

I'm not out yet on Ollie, but I think his time is running out to change course. I don't think the fear of the unknown should prevent us for trying to have the best possible coach leading our program though.

 

[whaler11]

This is a well presented summary of what you and many other posters have expressed. Most of us, even those who argue on points that might make things appear from your perspective too extreme a compromise, understand the seriousness of the problem and recognize the importance of immediate needs for improvement. But isn't that stating the obvious?

The question is what can you or I or anyone outside the AD do about it? I've asked Fishy the rationale for Benedict not firing KO now instead of waiting. Naturally he couldn't speak for Benedict, but he did discuss the salary and I think discussed optics.

We may not like how things have played out and are playing out, but none of our discussions are going to impact events, so at what point do we want to put this arguing to rest? I wanted to ask @whaler11 but I'll ask you instead. What value is there to be gained if everyone agrees with a particular point of view when that point of view influences nothing? Of course I'm asking myself this as I type!

Nothing is gained if everyone agrees. How about some logic to the disagreement (the league is the reason they suck in the league) and people are creating ridiculous strawmen (ollie stopped caring about his players).

If one wants to emotionally defend everything about Ollie does - then don't whine when you get called out for it.

 

[Stainmaster]

No one is asking for a final four every year (which as a matter of fact programs supposedly at UConn's tier DO expect annually), just a program run with competence.

SMH. The entire point of the post you just quoted is to display that people are not content with competence, regular season success, and making the tourney. They are literally saying that they want UConn to be at the same level as Duke and Kentucky. What does that mean? It means people want 30-2 regular seasons, rankings in the Top 5, lottery picks up the wazoo, and yes, the promise of a Final 4 berth every year. That and wanting a program run with competence are two completely different things.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Newsflash: UConn isn't Indiana, UCLA, or any of those other programs that were listed. You're either deluded or an absolute idiot if you believe that.

League affiliation being what it is right now, sure. If UConn is in the ACC, I see no reason why we shouldn't be included in the same breath as Indiana or UCLA. The lack of accomplishments by Indiana in the modern era is staggering.

 

[upstater]

League affiliation being what it is right now, sure. If UConn is in the ACC, I see no reason why we shouldn't be included in the same breath as Indiana or UCLA. The lack of accomplishments by Indiana in the modern era is staggering.

That is a massive if...

Indiana makes a ton of $$$, but even if they don't win, their arena is always jumping.

 

[Paesano]

Absolutely. People cringe thinking about Juwan, Steve, and Vance going somewhere else and doing well. I cringe thinking KO gets fired, our program never recovers and KO does well in some other program.

There is no doubt in my mind KO will succeed as a head coach. I want that to happen at UConn. But if he gets fired, I would bet he gets rehired immediately somewhere else and proves the mistake of that decision.

Those cringes may be related. If Enoch does well at Louisville, it will be a major nail in KO's coffin. If that is combined with another poor season, he is done. Yeah, it will be expensive but basketball is worth far more to UConn. The transformation of the university is due to basketball. If basketball dies, the support of UConn will die as well. The state is struggling and all they need is a reason to turn their backs on UConn.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

That is a massive if...

Indiana makes a ton of $$$, but even if they don't win, their arena is always jumping.

I agree it's a huge if. That being said, on a level playing field, our accomplishments crush theirs in the modern era of college basketball.

Conversely, if Indiana was in the AAC and UConn was in the B1G or ACC, the tables would undoubtedly be turned from the attendance point.

 

[upstater]

I agree it's a huge if. That being said, on a level playing field, our accomplishments crush theirs in the modern era of college basketball.

Conversely, if Indiana was in the AAC and UConn was in the B1G or ACC, the tables would undoubtedly be turned from the attendance point.

I wouldn't have written a single post in this thread if this were the case.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Absolutely. People cringe thinking about Juwan, Steve, and Vance going somewhere else and doing well. I cringe thinking KO gets fired, our program never recovers and KO does well in some other program.

There is no doubt in my mind KO will succeed as a head coach. I want that to happen at UConn. But if he gets fired, I would bet he gets rehired immediately somewhere else and proves the mistake of that decision.

This may very well be the case. Most coaches fail at their first job, it's entirely reasonable and expected. KO, if he doesn't turn things around quickly, could very easily develop into a great coach somewhere else in 10-20 years.

My contention is: why does our (supposedly elite) program stoop to the level of being a coach's training wheels?

 

[intlzncster]

Great post. What troubled me most is not only the number of losses but all the blowouts where the team just appeared to quit once they got popped in the mouth, many times on national tv. That's not UConn basketball and I for one won't tolerate it anymore.

See this is where it's weird for me. I saw a team that, game in game out, came out unready, yet usually battled back and made a tough game out of it. They were mentally tough in their own way.

To put it another way, if KO could figure out how to get his guys out of the gate at a good clip, they would have one a LOT more games last year.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I wouldn't have written a single post in this thread if this were the case.

Right, if we were in the ACC the worse case is that we would have to fire KO and rebuild, but rebuild on a P5 platform as opposed to the walls closing in on our AD in the AAC.

If KO isn't the man for the job and lately it doesn't necessarily seem that he is, rebuilding is going to be a lot harder in the AAC than a P5 league.

 

[Huskybass]

See this is where it's weird for me. I saw a team that, game in game out, came out unready, yet usually battled back and made a tough game out of it. They were mentally tough in their own way.

To put it another way, if KO could figure out how to get his guys out of the gate at a good clip, they would have one a LOT more games last year.

That begs the question as to why UConn fell behind by scores of 18-4 or something similar so many times last season. Similarly, why did they come out completely flat at home against Wagner and Northeastern?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Frankly, you're missing it... "Chief" is "@Chief00's" source.

Finally someone gets it. Quite frankly, Hans wondered whether this was ever going to happen.

 

[intlzncster]

That begs the question as to why UConn fell behind by scores of 18-4 or something similar so many times last season. Similarly, why did they come out completely flat at home against Wagner and Northeastern?

I haven't the faintest idea. I don't think it was lack of toughness though. Lack of focus? Who knows. It's all on the coach and the players there. I didn't feel like our captains were the type of guys to fire up a group pregame, or bear down on them early if they weren't ready. Ollie's got to get the team to a position where they are.

 

[BUConn10]

SMH. The entire point of the post you just quoted is to display that people are not content with competence, regular season success, and making the tourney. They are literally saying that they want UConn to be at the same level as Duke and Kentucky. What does that mean? It means people want 30-2 regular seasons, rankings in the Top 5, lottery picks up the wazoo, and yes, the promise of a Final 4 berth every year. That and wanting a program run with competence are two completely different things.

Who is saying that here besides you? The word "final four" hasn't even been brought up in that context. No one has complained about the lack of competing with Duke and UK... you wanna know what's funny? When I watch Duke, UK, and KU play these days they look so light years ahead of us in every aspect of the sport, ball handling, IQ, discipline, offensive rhythm you name it that I'll be happy just being half as disciplined as those top teams these days.

To sit here and say all the negative nancies are demanding top 5 end to end seasons and regular final fours then you are just making up s*** to keep up thise joke of a charade.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I haven't the faintest idea. I don't think it was lack of toughness though. Lack of focus? Who knows. It's all on the coach and the players there. I didn't feel like our captains were the type of guys to fire up a group pregame, or bear down on them early if they weren't ready. Ollie's got to get the team to a position where they are.

Not to get too far afield, but I think naming Brimah a captain -- especially as a sophomore -- was a ridiculous move that is emblematic of what's been wrong with this program for 3 years. Your captains can't just be cheerleaders, they have to be leaders in terms of basketball IQ and toughness, neither of which was Brimah's forte.

 

[Huskybass]

SMH. The entire point of the post you just quoted is to display that people are not content with competence, regular season success, and making the tourney. They are literally saying that they want UConn to be at the same level as Duke and Kentucky. What does that mean? It means people want 30-2 regular seasons, rankings in the Top 5, lottery picks up the wazoo, and yes, the promise of a Final 4 berth every year. That and wanting a program run with competence are two completely different things.

What most of us want is a program that is relevant. A team that goes to the Tourney most years and has a chance to make some noise, that at least challenges for the AAC regular season title, that is ranked somewhat regularly, and that doesn't get beat by mediocre teams that used to be automatic wins.

I don't think anyone on here has set unreasonable standards for success. I think you overreact greatly to any valid criticism of the program during this three year slide.

 

[Stainmaster]

No one has complained about the lack of competing with Duke and UK...

To sit here and say all the negative nancies are demanding top 5 end to end seasons and regular final fours then you are just making up s*** to keep up thise joke of a charade.

Yes, people are complaining about the lack of competing with Duke and UK...look one page back. I also have a feeling if there weren't any vocally anti-firing Ollie posters here, Tenspro wouldn't be the only poster who is as vocal about it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Yes, people are complaining about the lack of competing with Duke and UK...look one page back. I also have a feeling if there weren't any vocally anti-firing Ollie posters here, Tenspro wouldn't be the only poster who is as vocal about it.

Almost nobody has said they expect us to compete with Duke and UK. The statement was that those programs have high expectations due to their past, so we should feel justified in having high expectations as well.

Almost nobody has said Ollie deserves to be fired right now. He has next season at minimum to turn it around.

I don't understand why you always twist these arguments and everything else from the "less than pleased with Ollie camp".

 

[HuskyHawk]

What most of us want is a program that is relevant. A team that goes to the Tourney most years and has a chance to make some noise, that at least challenges for the AAC regular season title, that is ranked somewhat regularly, and that doesn't get beat by mediocre teams that used to be automatic wins.

I don't think anyone on here has set unreasonable standards for success. I think you overreact greatly to any valid criticism of the program during this three year slide.

Agreed. It's not unrealistic to expect to make the tournament most of the time and win our crappy league regular season at least once.

Part of my concern is simply that UConn doesn't have time for Kevin to learn on the job. This team has slipped dramatically in terms of reputation and perception as a top program, despite the 2014 title. It has to win low 20's games and get to the tournament right now and every year until realignment heats up again. UConn actually needed that to happen last year, so the urgency is enhanced.

The glass half full view though, suggests to me that AD DB knows this. That Kevin Ollie has been made to understand this, and is acting accordingly. We have a talented core group of guys who can win. I wouldn't be surprised to see another grad transfer rather than a 2017 freshman, as I think that's what this team needs to get to the tournament.

 

[ctchamps]

I couldn't contest this point more strongly if I tried. Consistency is a nice benchmark and an upgrade from where we are now, but people will never be satisfied. I would take a top 2/3 finishes in this conference, zero embarrassing OOC losses, and at minimum a berth in the tourney every year and be pretty content. I'm in the vast minority there. People will always be clamoring for more no matter what happens on the floor. People want us to return to the days where we were ranked in the top five, going head-to-head with Duke and Kentucky both on the court (hell, they want us outrecruiting both of those schools now, which did not happen under Calhoun mind you...), going 16-2/17-3 in conference, sending multiple lottery picks to the draft every year...and they will not be happy until that happens.

I'd say beating one of Rollie Massimino, Lou Carnesecca, Jim Boeheim or John Thompson would make my season.

Whoa. Senior flashback. That was an earlier goal. Sorry.

 

[nomar]

This thread

 

[imno1]

Man it's gonna be a long offseason. Heading to the best beer thread