Is the AAC even P6?

[Husky25]

Of course but it’s a real designation.

Yes, but not nearly in the way @Zissou is attempting to imply.

 

[whaler11]

Yes, but not nearly in the way @Zissou is attempting to imply.

LOL I blocked him long ago. I’m sure whatever he is saying is crazy talk.

 

[billybud]

Of course but it’s a real designation.

Yes...Good point. I think we sometimes forget that the Autonomous Group was a formalized breakaway of a separate league to supplant the old BCS Automatic Qualifiers.

I don't know what the next iteration would be....I think, though, it will be more inclusion in the playoff structure for the G5.

That might change the CFP Payout ratio some....in 2017...the AAC received $4 million for UCF's bowl and received one fifth of the $81 million G5 allotment...as opposed to the $87 million that the ACC alone received as a P5.

The P5, of course, has cornered the money...and only a strong incentive would pry that upper hand loose from the till.

 

[zls44]

It'd be a huge win if somehow the AAC got a lock-in deal with the Peach Bowl. I also see no reason the Peach Bowl would do that.

 

[billybud]

It'd be a huge win if somehow the AAC got a lock-in deal with the Peach Bowl. I also see no reason the Peach Bowl would do that.

Have one already...well, sort of...and if the highest ranked G5 champ isn't the AAC Champ...it would be shame on the conference.

– The highest-ranked conference champion from the American Athletic, Conference USA, MAC, Mountain West and Sun Belt will automatically get one spot in either the College Football Playoff, Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl or PlayStation Fiesta Bowl.

 

[don356]

That's kind of a silly statement.

Here is how silly at the moment: the highest A10 team on KenPom tonight is VCU at 56.

6 of the 10 Big East teams are rated higher.

3 of the 12 American teams are rated higher.

The American is P7. The Big East is better, the A10 is worse (even if you disregard Nova).

What's silly is you put a lot of stock in anyone rated below the first 10 or 15 teams in any of those rankings. Once you get past that, the next 100 or so can flip one way or the other on any given night, not to mention the non scientific procedure of schedule strength. We've played the Providence's, Seton Halls, Gtowns and Depauls of the world. Not the world beaters you wish to portray them as. If it was such a power player, the tv rankings would not be awful, but short of a big Nova game, the general public is not planning their night around watching the current configuration's bball on tv for the same reasons.

 

[metsfan2323]

How much does Wichita State get?
How much does Navy get?

It's not that complicated.

The fact that Wichita State was added at all shows the conference is "all in" for basketball. It hasn't passed the C7 yet, but it is clearly gaining on them. Every school in the Amercian has finally found themselves a good basketball coach. An argument can be made that the American has a better group of basketball coaches. It starts with coaches, next is recruiting, and then you can remove yourself from this board for good.

 

[atom58]

I went to Penn State - Miami games in the era of major independents. It is hard to consider that era from today's perspective, as the TV money had not exploded and while the NCAA was still distributing the TV cash.

To really think back at the landscape of the time, Gavitt was fortunate to realize his Big East basketball dream before football dominated conference alignments.

The CFA was formed in the 1970s but TV rights were not really wrestled away from the NCAA until about 1984.

The Big East was able to form before football dictated the alignments. The Pitt vs. Penn State choice for the Big East was also pre 1984.

What if JoePa had acted on a football conference before the Big East, instead of after it?

In the late 1970s the affiliation for hoops was the Eastern 8.

It's easy to think of JoePa acting pre 1979 and forming Eastern Football from Penn State's Eastern 8 hoops partners - Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, & UMass (no GW or Duquesne). The obvious adds would have been indy rivals Cuse and BC.

Miami at the time would have been outside of JoePa's eastern strategy. By 1990 it was more clear for Miami to benefit from a conference, but not in the 70s. Temple might have been considered at the time. UConn probably not. Maybe Holy Cross.

If JoePa had acted successfully before Gavitt, The Big East Conference in 1980 may have been Providence, UConn, St Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Duquesne, GW, Bonnies, St Joes, and Rhody for 10 members.

The Eastern 10 Conference may have been Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, UMass, Cuse, BC, Holy Cross, and Temple for 10 members.

Those would have been 2 good conferences, but neither would have achieved the greatness of the oBE in basketball in my opinion. Pitt, Nova, and Cuse were key components, as were Georgetown, St Johns, and later UConn.

Anyway, the Pitt vs Penn State decision of 1981 must be looked at in the context of those times, and can be accompanied by many other "what ifs". JoePa was a little late to the game in his eastern football efforts.

Yes, and it is likely FSU, Miami, South Carolina, and Virginia Tech would have joined an Eastern FB conference in the early 1980s as they were all independents then. Pitt and Penn State had great success in those years.

And yes, it was Oklahoma and I think Georgia that sued the NCAA to manage their own bowl $$$ arrangements - I think it was a Supreme Court decision that opened the floodgates to conference realignment and later resulted in two division conferences and conference championship games - another $$$ grab by the universities that play top level FB - something that does not happen in collegiate sports in Europe as another poster has said.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

something that does not happen in collegiate sports in Europe as another poster has said.

There is a clear division between higher education and sports in nearly every country outside of the US. 'Serious' athletes go to athletic academies, most of which are private but some are quasi-public like the USOC.

The biggest gripe about the structure in European football, for example is that if an athlete crashes out of an academy, his (her) future prospects off the pitch are questionable. Thus, some of the higher profile academies now mandate that athletes between 18 and 22 or so take university classes (usually arranged with a nearby institution or take an apprenticeship (I could write a book on the US education system being too college focused instead of putting some effort into training for trades as not everyone wants to be or needs to have a BA/BS).

Universities in Europe and elsewhere do have sport teams; but, the focus is not on money and the skill level is below premier DI programs in the US. McGill from Montreal, for example, usually does a pre-season hockey tour of a few US Universities and rarely wins against the big programs. Yale beat them 5-2 this season and UMaine beat UPEI 6-1.

When I studied in France for a semester, I tried-out for, made, and started for their football/soccer team. It was a lot of fun, especially the post-game socials; but, it the skill level was roughly middle of the road DIII. Even the big University in the city, whose team does travel in France and an adjacent country or two to play fellow universities, was maybe equal to a low DI program. The only recruiting they did was on-campus and they were better than my school (we did not play each other formally) because they drew from a student body of 45,000 versus the roughly 2,000 undergraduates at my small, specialty school.

 

[Zissou]

The fact that Wichita State was added at all shows the conference is "all in" for basketball.

The question is how the AAC values football vs. how it values basketball. You have an example for each. Navy and Wichita State.

The answer is that Wichita gets squat, and Navy is more like a full revenue member.

So for UConn, stay in the AAC for football and get that payday. It's a good spot for football, as it is for Navy.

Take hoops and all other sports to the Big East and get that payday. It looks like the AD could use a few bucks more.

Could UConn negotiate this position? Some might call it a long shot, but at the same time they are hoping for an ACC invite to save the program. Negotiating football-only in the AAC isn't a long shot, at least in comparison to that pending P5 invite.

 

[billybud]

Let's see how that would go

UConn..."We want to move our brand sport and value to the Big East conference and leave our low value sport to ride on the coat tails of the AAC football programs. What'ya think?"

AAC...."Give us time to think about that. OK..We've thought about it. No"

 

[Zissou]

Let's see how that would go

UConn..."We want to move our brand sport and value to the Big East conference and leave our low value sport to ride on the coat tails of the AAC football programs. What'ya think?"

AAC...."Give us time to think about that. OK..We've thought about it. No"

So you think it's less realistic than the ACC inviting UConn to join?

UConn... "OK, we'll go Big East and just play an Indy schedule for football. Good luck with your upcoming TV negotiations without one of your best programs".

 

[HuskyDogArt]

The question is how the AAC values football vs. how it values basketball. You have an example for each. Navy and Wichita State.

The answer is that Wichita gets squat, and Navy is more like a full revenue member.

So for UConn, stay in the AAC for football and get that payday. It's a good spot for football, as it is for Navy.

Take hoops and all other sports to the Big East and get that payday. It looks like the AD could use a few bucks more.

Could UConn negotiate this position? Some might call it a long shot, but at the same time they are hoping for an ACC invite to save the program. Negotiating football-only in the AAC isn't a long shot, at least in comparison to that pending P5 invite.

Zissou, could you please stop with the 'put basketball and other sports in the Big East'? It is never going to happen, so please, go back to the Nova board and we will be happy not listening to your crap. Thank you...

 

[Zissou]

Zissou, could you please stop with the 'put basketball and other sports in the Big East'? It is never going to happen, so please, go back to the Nova board and we will be happy not listening to your crap. Thank you...

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

 

[billybud]

So you think it's less realistic than the AAC inviting UConn to join?

UConn... "OK, we'll go Big East and just play an Indy schedule for football. Good luck with your upcoming TV negotiations without one of your best programs".

! assume you meant ACC in first sentence and AAC in the 2nd sentence.

"Without one of your best programs" Football?

 

[HuskyDogArt]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

I doubt the C7 (all private non major football schools) would want us, and I know we don't want to be in with the C7. If you aren't a UConn fan, go back to the Nova board and bitch about UConn there. You'll be happier there...and so will we...it's a win win..

 

[Zissou]

! assume you meant ACC in first sentence and AAC in the 2nd sentence.

"Without one of your best programs" Football?

Yeah, ACC.

I assume you meant "I" and not "!".

UConn Football is down today, but yeah UConn. It's the only original founding member of both the Big East and the American. Is there any value in UConn's claim to the NYC / New England market? Does the American value this position, or would they be fine with letting UConn go and picking up UMass instead?

Either UConn has value or it doesn't. I think it does. The American puts its value in football, so keep UConn football (like Navy).

 

[Zissou]

I doubt the C7 (all private non major football schools) would want us

Butler is private but not Catholic (like the C7), and like UConn they play non major football. So we are almost there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

Yes, we get it. Your basketball team is on top right now; but, being on top is cyclical. UConn was on top not long ago. Villanova was on top in the middle '80's; but, what happended to the Wildcats in the 20 or so years in between?

You should worry more about your own school as even with those fancy basketball titles under your belt, Villanova's men's basketball program generated a net profit of $1 Million in 2016. Now throw in your DI-AA football program (I don't think there is a DI-AA football program that generates a profit), women's basketball and other Olympic sports, Villanova's Athletic Department ran a $20 Million deficit in the same year (2016). That's higher than UConn on a per student basis. This is all from a report in Villanova's own student newspaper in 2017.

Men’s basketball does not pay for other Villanova athletic teams

 

[Zissou]

Yes, we get it. Your basketball team is on top right now; but, being on top is cyclical. UConn was on top not long ago. Villanova was on top in the middle '80's; but, what happended to the Wildcats in the 20 or so years in between?

You should worry more about your own school as even with those fancy basketball titles under your belt, Villanova's men's basketball program generated a net profit of $1 Million in 2016. Now throw in your DI-AA football program (I don't think there is a DI-AA football program that generates a profit), women's basketball and other Olympic sports, Villanova's Athletic Department ran a $20 Million deficit in the same year (2016). That's higher than UConn on a per student basis. This is all from a report in Villanova's own student newspaper in 2017.

Men’s basketball does not pay for other Villanova athletic teams

Nova's football program is pathetic and a money loser. Nova needs to do something with the program. Status quo is football program failure.

In a perfect world rev sports cover the non rev sports. In the dilapidated end of town the rev sports don't even pay for themselves.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

As UConn considers its future conference affiliations its position in football is much different than its position in basketball.

Football peaked at the right time for UConn. UConn had its best foot forward for CR when it unfolded, it just didn’t work out.

As we look forward it might be better to look at what is best for each Revenue Sport.

UConn football as a program has been bad the last half dozen years or so. The outlook for the coming years is uncertain. A recovery is not convincing yet. The AAC for all of its faults is a good spot for UConn football. There is some revenue and good competition. The AAC isn’t so great, however, as to make it a no brainer vs other options, such as independence in football.

For all it’s P6 rhetoric the AAC is not a consensus Top 6 program in either sport. In hoops it’s definitely not Top 6. In football MW has a claim to Top 6. I’m not even sure what P6 is worth, but it is a campaign that is questionable when performance is Top 7ish.

For performance, history, and future UConn is a basketball-first University. The return in the coming years is convincing for hoops. The AAC is Top 7 in hoops and also is footprint challenged with a lack of regional rivals. I’m not sure where the AAC tournament is played.

The Big East is clearly a superior basketball conference. UConn is a great fit for our NYC centric conference. There are some differences, but the basketball first nature of UConn fits the conference mission along with the NYC presence and MSG tournament.

Olympic sports benefit from the more regional footprint, as a small aside.

If not for football, basketball to the Big East is the logical move.

With football, going Big East and keeping football in the AAC or as an independent are credible options.

Reserve any opinions on the AAC until details of the new contract happen.
Football independence is stupid same costs decreased revenue. and going down to FSB no better.lower costs but no revenue.
UConn really has only two options
1. Stay in the AAC for all sports including football.
2. Drop football completely Huge expense reduction obviously no revenue.
Guess which one they will do.
Basketball would need to find a home.

 

[billybud]

UConn's athletic expenses run $25-30 million more than UCF, USF, Memphis, and even Houston.

 

[Hogoff]

UConn's athletic expenses run $25-30 million more than UCF, USF, Memphis, and even Houston.

UConn has to cut non revenue sports. That is the bottom line. There is hope that basketball and football will generate enough revenue to break even. But these non revenue sports need to go until more money is coming in.

 

[06029]

UConn has to cut non revenue sports. That is the bottom line. There is hope that basketball and football will generate enough revenue to break even. But these non revenue sports need to go until more money is coming in.

I apologize in advance to anyone that has a member on this team but I flew to FLL last week and the Uconn women's rowing team was on it. That is a larger team than WBB, soccer and possible field hockey with 30+ memebers plus staff. I am sure there are few or no full scholarships there but they were on SWA to FLL and I am sure they will return at some point. That is a big cost and a non-revenue sport. The number of female athletes probably helps Title IX compliance issues that you have with an 85 member football team. Uconn supports a lot of programs and cuts would have to be on the men's sports side with golf, cross country, tennis, swimming, etc with equal cuts on the woman's side. Not sure if that can ever happen.

 

[06029]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

What is Nova's athletic department revenue and expenses? How many teams and total athletes does the university have? How about the same for ST. John's and Georgetown?

Explain how the economics would improve significantly for Uconn by trying to join the BE, remembering that the AAC will not allow them to be a FB only school making them an independent FBV school (see UMass for a reference point).

And how is that expansion to 12 members that was projected when the BE signed their television contract coming along?