Is the AAC even P6?

[billybud]

Let's see how that would go

UConn..."We want to move our brand sport and value to the Big East conference and leave our low value sport to ride on the coat tails of the AAC football programs. What'ya think?"

AAC...."Give us time to think about that. OK..We've thought about it. No"

 

[Zissou]

Let's see how that would go

UConn..."We want to move our brand sport and value to the Big East conference and leave our low value sport to ride on the coat tails of the AAC football programs. What'ya think?"

AAC...."Give us time to think about that. OK..We've thought about it. No"

So you think it's less realistic than the ACC inviting UConn to join?

UConn... "OK, we'll go Big East and just play an Indy schedule for football. Good luck with your upcoming TV negotiations without one of your best programs".

 

[HuskyDogArt]

The question is how the AAC values football vs. how it values basketball. You have an example for each. Navy and Wichita State.

The answer is that Wichita gets squat, and Navy is more like a full revenue member.

So for UConn, stay in the AAC for football and get that payday. It's a good spot for football, as it is for Navy.

Take hoops and all other sports to the Big East and get that payday. It looks like the AD could use a few bucks more.

Could UConn negotiate this position? Some might call it a long shot, but at the same time they are hoping for an ACC invite to save the program. Negotiating football-only in the AAC isn't a long shot, at least in comparison to that pending P5 invite.

Zissou, could you please stop with the 'put basketball and other sports in the Big East'? It is never going to happen, so please, go back to the Nova board and we will be happy not listening to your crap. Thank you...

 

[Zissou]

Zissou, could you please stop with the 'put basketball and other sports in the Big East'? It is never going to happen, so please, go back to the Nova board and we will be happy not listening to your crap. Thank you...

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

 

[billybud]

So you think it's less realistic than the AAC inviting UConn to join?

UConn... "OK, we'll go Big East and just play an Indy schedule for football. Good luck with your upcoming TV negotiations without one of your best programs".

! assume you meant ACC in first sentence and AAC in the 2nd sentence.

"Without one of your best programs" Football?

 

[HuskyDogArt]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

I doubt the C7 (all private non major football schools) would want us, and I know we don't want to be in with the C7. If you aren't a UConn fan, go back to the Nova board and bitch about UConn there. You'll be happier there...and so will we...it's a win win..

 

[Zissou]

! assume you meant ACC in first sentence and AAC in the 2nd sentence.

"Without one of your best programs" Football?

Yeah, ACC.

I assume you meant "I" and not "!".

UConn Football is down today, but yeah UConn. It's the only original founding member of both the Big East and the American. Is there any value in UConn's claim to the NYC / New England market? Does the American value this position, or would they be fine with letting UConn go and picking up UMass instead?

Either UConn has value or it doesn't. I think it does. The American puts its value in football, so keep UConn football (like Navy).

 

[Zissou]

I doubt the C7 (all private non major football schools) would want us

Butler is private but not Catholic (like the C7), and like UConn they play non major football. So we are almost there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

Yes, we get it. Your basketball team is on top right now; but, being on top is cyclical. UConn was on top not long ago. Villanova was on top in the middle '80's; but, what happended to the Wildcats in the 20 or so years in between?

You should worry more about your own school as even with those fancy basketball titles under your belt, Villanova's men's basketball program generated a net profit of $1 Million in 2016. Now throw in your DI-AA football program (I don't think there is a DI-AA football program that generates a profit), women's basketball and other Olympic sports, Villanova's Athletic Department ran a $20 Million deficit in the same year (2016). That's higher than UConn on a per student basis. This is all from a report in Villanova's own student newspaper in 2017.

Men’s basketball does not pay for other Villanova athletic teams

 

[Zissou]

Yes, we get it. Your basketball team is on top right now; but, being on top is cyclical. UConn was on top not long ago. Villanova was on top in the middle '80's; but, what happended to the Wildcats in the 20 or so years in between?

You should worry more about your own school as even with those fancy basketball titles under your belt, Villanova's men's basketball program generated a net profit of $1 Million in 2016. Now throw in your DI-AA football program (I don't think there is a DI-AA football program that generates a profit), women's basketball and other Olympic sports, Villanova's Athletic Department ran a $20 Million deficit in the same year (2016). That's higher than UConn on a per student basis. This is all from a report in Villanova's own student newspaper in 2017.

Men’s basketball does not pay for other Villanova athletic teams

Nova's football program is pathetic and a money loser. Nova needs to do something with the program. Status quo is football program failure.

In a perfect world rev sports cover the non rev sports. In the dilapidated end of town the rev sports don't even pay for themselves.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

As UConn considers its future conference affiliations its position in football is much different than its position in basketball.

Football peaked at the right time for UConn. UConn had its best foot forward for CR when it unfolded, it just didn’t work out.

As we look forward it might be better to look at what is best for each Revenue Sport.

UConn football as a program has been bad the last half dozen years or so. The outlook for the coming years is uncertain. A recovery is not convincing yet. The AAC for all of its faults is a good spot for UConn football. There is some revenue and good competition. The AAC isn’t so great, however, as to make it a no brainer vs other options, such as independence in football.

For all it’s P6 rhetoric the AAC is not a consensus Top 6 program in either sport. In hoops it’s definitely not Top 6. In football MW has a claim to Top 6. I’m not even sure what P6 is worth, but it is a campaign that is questionable when performance is Top 7ish.

For performance, history, and future UConn is a basketball-first University. The return in the coming years is convincing for hoops. The AAC is Top 7 in hoops and also is footprint challenged with a lack of regional rivals. I’m not sure where the AAC tournament is played.

The Big East is clearly a superior basketball conference. UConn is a great fit for our NYC centric conference. There are some differences, but the basketball first nature of UConn fits the conference mission along with the NYC presence and MSG tournament.

Olympic sports benefit from the more regional footprint, as a small aside.

If not for football, basketball to the Big East is the logical move.

With football, going Big East and keeping football in the AAC or as an independent are credible options.

Reserve any opinions on the AAC until details of the new contract happen.
Football independence is stupid same costs decreased revenue. and going down to FSB no better.lower costs but no revenue.
UConn really has only two options
1. Stay in the AAC for all sports including football.
2. Drop football completely Huge expense reduction obviously no revenue.
Guess which one they will do.
Basketball would need to find a home.

 

[billybud]

UConn's athletic expenses run $25-30 million more than UCF, USF, Memphis, and even Houston.

 

[Hogoff]

UConn's athletic expenses run $25-30 million more than UCF, USF, Memphis, and even Houston.

UConn has to cut non revenue sports. That is the bottom line. There is hope that basketball and football will generate enough revenue to break even. But these non revenue sports need to go until more money is coming in.

 

[06029]

UConn has to cut non revenue sports. That is the bottom line. There is hope that basketball and football will generate enough revenue to break even. But these non revenue sports need to go until more money is coming in.

I apologize in advance to anyone that has a member on this team but I flew to FLL last week and the Uconn women's rowing team was on it. That is a larger team than WBB, soccer and possible field hockey with 30+ memebers plus staff. I am sure there are few or no full scholarships there but they were on SWA to FLL and I am sure they will return at some point. That is a big cost and a non-revenue sport. The number of female athletes probably helps Title IX compliance issues that you have with an 85 member football team. Uconn supports a lot of programs and cuts would have to be on the men's sports side with golf, cross country, tennis, swimming, etc with equal cuts on the woman's side. Not sure if that can ever happen.

 

[06029]

No thanks. It's more realistic than dreaming of the P5 while spending $80M a year with $40M in revenue.

What is Nova's athletic department revenue and expenses? How many teams and total athletes does the university have? How about the same for ST. John's and Georgetown?

Explain how the economics would improve significantly for Uconn by trying to join the BE, remembering that the AAC will not allow them to be a FB only school making them an independent FBV school (see UMass for a reference point).

And how is that expansion to 12 members that was projected when the BE signed their television contract coming along?

 

[Zissou]

the AAC will not allow them to be a FB only school making them an independent FBV school (see UMass for a reference point).

And how is that expansion to 12 members that was projected when the BE signed their television contract coming along?

The American won’t allow it, until they do. It has to be negotiated. See Navy.

The expansion up to 12 is an option that the conference may exercise, at its option, with a plus up by Fox so that there is no dilution. There is no need to expand. UConn is one of the few programs, IMO, that adds value.

No to VCU, no to Dayton, no to Wichita. Yes to UConn.

I think if we added UConn it would only be as an 11th, and we’d preserve the full double round robin schedule. 12 makes that more difficult.

 

[06029]

The American won’t allow it, until they do. It has to be negotiated. See Navy.

The expansion up to 12 is an option that the conference may exercise, at its option, with a plus up by Fox so that there is no dilution. There is no need to expand. UConn is one of the few programs, IMO, that adds value.

No to VCU, no to Dayton, no to Wichita. Yes to UConn.

I think if we added UConn it would only be as an 11th, and we’d preserve the full double round robin schedule. 12 makes that more difficult.

You did not answer the Nova revenue question. I fail to see how the economics of your proposal would work particularly since Uconn would be rendered an independent.

Navy made $2.63mm form the AAC in 2016/17. Uconn made $8.1mm. Assuming Uconn gets the same special Navy deal (a huge assumption), would the BE make up more than $5.5 million in revenue? Probably not. They have a $500 million 12 year TV deal - $4.2 million per team per year and it is not clear if the TV deal goes up unless there is a 12th team added. Just on economics alone, your idea fails.
AAC revenue
NBE TV deal

 

[Zissou]

You did not answer the Nova revenue question. I fail to see how the economics of your proposal would work particularly since Uconn would be rendered an independent.

Navy made $2.63mm form the AAC in 2016/17. Uconn made $8.1mm. Assuming Uconn gets the same special Navy deal (a huge assumption), would the BE make up more than $5.5 million in revenue? Probably not. They have a $500 million 12 year TV deal - $4.2 million per team per year and it is not clear if the TV deal goes up unless there is a 12th team added. Just on economics alone, your idea fails.
AAC revenue
NBE TV deal

Big East revenue from Fox TV is about $4.2M each as you noted, basketball only.
AAC revenue from ESPN is about $2M each, includes football and basketball.

I think UConn revenue from the AAC includes $$$M in payout from the Big East from the split. That payout was for the divorce and for the Big East name being retained by the C7. The payout only goes to UConn, Cincy, and USF. That revenue stream is about to finish paying out.

I'd expect the AAC and Big East to land a better TV deals. Let's guess $7M for the American, and let's be modest and say $5M for the Big East.

Now we know the AAC puts its value in football. Let's project that UConn negotiates to be football only and get an 80% share of the $7M, or $5.6M. The Big East welcomes UConn with a full $5M share.

That's $10.6M to UConn as Big East full + AAC football only vs. $7M AAC full membership. Of course football bowl and playoff shares as well as hoops distributions from the NCAA are on top in both cases.

 

[billybud]

No conference playing football will split 80% for that one sport....

Notre Dame plays five of 8 games and does not get a 80% split...

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame gets a little less than a 25% split for being in the ACC for all sports except for football...and football playing five games.

They will get a full split on the ACCN because of the non football content to be shown...

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I apologize in advance to anyone that has a member on this team but I flew to FLL last week and the Uconn women's rowing team was on it. That is a larger team than WBB, soccer and possible field hockey with 30+ members plus staff. I am sure there are few or no full scholarships there but they were on SWA to FLL and I am sure they will return at some point. That is a big cost and a non-revenue sport. The number of female athletes probably helps Title IX compliance issues that you have with an 85 member football team. Uconn supports a lot of programs and cuts would have to be on the men's sports side with golf, cross country, tennis, swimming, etc with equal cuts on the woman's side. Not sure if that can ever happen.

With respect to Title XI, football is the killer due to its size in terms of number of scholarships and the fact that there isn't a complementary women's program. When UConn upgraded its football program, both Women's Crew and Women's Law, both of which were club teams at the time, got bumped up to Varsity status. Neither program can go anywhere as long as UConn has a FBS football program.

 

[Zissou]

Bud, it’s interesting trivia on Notre Dame, but they have their own TV contract. What they get from the ACC is incremental.

The question on the table is what does navy get? Navy also has its own TV deal, but it’s a full conference member for football, and I think it’s a high percentage payout.

 

[billybud]

But all Navy home games are televised by CBS, under Navy's contract, until 2027.

Like Notre Dame, they have their own football contract for football.

"It is extremely rare for a conference to allow one of its member schools to negotiate its own separate television contract. Athletic director Chet Gladchuk said such autonomy was a prerequisite to Navy becoming a member of the American Athletic Conference."

From the Capital Gazette...

"Navy, as a football-only member, received just over $2.6 million. That is peanuts folks."

 

[Zissou]

But all Navy home games are televised by CBS, under Navy's contract, until 2027.

Like Notre Dame, they have their own football contract for football.

"It is extremely rare for a conference to allow one of its member schools to negotiate its own separate television contract. Athletic director Chet Gladchuk said such autonomy was a prerequisite to Navy becoming a member of the American Athletic Conference."

From the Capital Gazette...

"Navy, as a football-only member, received just over $2.6 million. That is peanuts folks."

Right, that is what I said, Navy has its own partial TV deal (due to the Army Navy game), it is a full AAC football only member and gets a AAC payout.

For comparison, Navy gets a $2.6M AAC payout vs Tulane at $3.6M. This is the point. Navy is football only and gets a substantial share vs full members. Only $1M less than Tulane, and Navy has its own partial TV deal.

UConn as football only in the AAC should get about 80% of a TV deal, and a full share of bowl and CFP distributions. UConn as Big East would add to that a full share of BE TV revenue and the NCAA basketball tournament distributions.

The AAC cash pile revenue from exit fees and the C7 divorce is going away. That is a big hit to UConn’s revenue vs the last few years.

 

[Zissou]

Sometimes it’s hard for casual observers to see what is possible until it is hindsight.

UConn could negotiate a football-only deal with the AAC.

It would be easy to say “Navy would be a nice add to the AAC, but there is absolutely no way it can happen because they have the Army Navy game, their own TV deal, and they are not leaving their conference for other sports where they have a near Ivy fit”. And then it gets negotiated, even with all of the special circumstances.

UConn as an AAC football only member is a viable scenario.

 

[billybud]

The AAC took Navy because of a deal sweetner....one that UConn doesn't bring.

Although analysts have said:

"Not having all Navy home games as part of its package will hurt the American Athletic Conference to some degree as it enters into negotiations with ESPN and any other interested networks for its next broadcast agreement."

BUT...THE SWEETNER...

'However, that concern was mitigated tremendously by two concessions Navy made to help out the conference. First and foremost, Navy’s home game with Notre Dame that is held in even years will become part of the American Athletic Conference television package beginning in 2020.

Gladchuk believes giving up the home game with Notre Dame, which was previously part of the CBS Sports contract, signified a major commitment to the American Athletic Conference on the part of the Naval Academy Athletic Association."

 

[BRG 1]

With regard to Title 9 and non revenue sports saying 'drop all non revenue sports' is not as simple as it seems.
20 years ago Providence College dropped their baseball team as well as Tennis, Golf, and swimming. There was a huge uproar as baseball was the school's oldest sport, and was good enough to win the Big East and to lose to Florida State just before the College World Series.
In this era of Politics and Me Too imagine the liberal uproar if non revenue women's sports like women's hockey get cut.
One thing I haven't seen on voluminous threads on NBE/UConn is the value of regional rivalries. When I went to PC, my parents, who were UConn women's season ticket holders, would come to games when UConn woul play at Providence. Anecdotally I would see families / friends who had family members who went to both schools and that weekend would have a 'reunion ' of sorts. Highly doubt there are families that have members that go to both UConn and say, East Carolina. Olympic sports also benefited from his trips to UConn, New York, and Philly.
UConn is logical as an 11th member as Dayton and St. Louis teams' profile has fallen off and Gonzaga is too far away.
The whole point is moot if NBE president don't offer UConn a slot, and as someone said months ago, $$$ from NBE payout only works if Football is dropped or goes Independent or FCS.

 

[Zissou]

The AAC took Navy because of a deal sweetner....one that UConn doesn't bring.

Although analysts have said:

"Not having all Navy home games as part of its package will hurt the American Athletic Conference to some degree as it enters into negotiations with ESPN and any other interested networks for its next broadcast agreement."

BUT...THE SWEETNER...

'However, that concern was mitigated tremendously by two concessions Navy made to help out the conference. First and foremost, Navy’s home game with Notre Dame that is held in even years will become part of the American Athletic Conference television package beginning in 2020.

Gladchuk believes giving up the home game with Notre Dame, which was previously part of the CBS Sports contract, signified a major commitment to the American Athletic Conference on the part of the Naval Academy Athletic Association."

The sweetener is new, available when Navy renewed its independent TV deal after it was already an AAC football member. Navy is a positive for the conference.

It is also a precedent for a Football only membership that gets high compensation.

 

[billybud]

But...what would UConn have to offer the AAC as a sweetner...

Navy came to the AAC having gone to 11 bowls in 12 years and winning 8 games in 6 of the previous 7...was ranked on the AP and Coaches Poll and had record setting QB Kennan Reynolds under center.

And, as Aresco said...

"I expect that they will help drive up attendance when they play on the road in the conference. They have not only a national following, but with Naval bases worldwide, they bring a global audience to the AAC."

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Nova's football program is pathetic and a money loser. Nova needs to do something with the program. Status quo is football program failure.

In a perfect world rev sports cover the non rev sports. In the dilapidated end of town the rev sports don't even pay for themselves.

Can't find the story; but, there was a report that stated that only 20 to 30 D1 atheltic programs are self-sufficent, i.e. don't use student funds and/or general university revenue to cover the costs of all sport programs. I am prettty sure that Ohio St and Texas were included as 2 of those programs.