Is the AAC even P6? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Is the AAC even P6?

I went to Penn State - Miami games in the era of major independents. It is hard to consider that era from today's perspective, as the TV money had not exploded and while the NCAA was still distributing the TV cash.

To really think back at the landscape of the time, Gavitt was fortunate to realize his Big East basketball dream before football dominated conference alignments.

The CFA was formed in the 1970s but TV rights were not really wrestled away from the NCAA until about 1984.

The Big East was able to form before football dictated the alignments. The Pitt vs. Penn State choice for the Big East was also pre 1984.

What if JoePa had acted on a football conference before the Big East, instead of after it?

In the late 1970s the affiliation for hoops was the Eastern 8.

It's easy to think of JoePa acting pre 1979 and forming Eastern Football from Penn State's Eastern 8 hoops partners - Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, & UMass (no GW or Duquesne). The obvious adds would have been indy rivals Cuse and BC.

Miami at the time would have been outside of JoePa's eastern strategy. By 1990 it was more clear for Miami to benefit from a conference, but not in the 70s. Temple might have been considered at the time. UConn probably not. Maybe Holy Cross.

If JoePa had acted successfully before Gavitt, The Big East Conference in 1980 may have been Providence, UConn, St Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Duquesne, GW, Bonnies, St Joes, and Rhody for 10 members.

The Eastern 10 Conference may have been Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, UMass, Cuse, BC, Holy Cross, and Temple for 10 members.

Those would have been 2 good conferences, but neither would have achieved the greatness of the oBE in basketball in my opinion. Pitt, Nova, and Cuse were key components, as were Georgetown, St Johns, and later UConn.

Anyway, the Pitt vs Penn State decision of 1981 must be looked at in the context of those times, and can be accompanied by many other "what ifs". JoePa was a little late to the game in his eastern football efforts.
 
I went to Penn State - Miami games in the era of major independents. It is hard to consider that era from today's perspective, as the TV money had not exploded and while the NCAA was still distributing the TV cash.

To really think back at the landscape of the time, Gavitt was fortunate to realize his Big East basketball dream before football dominated conference alignments.

The CFA was formed in the 1970s but TV rights were not really wrestled away from the NCAA until about 1984.

The Big East was able to form before football dictated the alignments. The Pitt vs. Penn State choice for the Big East was also pre 1984.

What if JoePa had acted on a football conference before the Big East, instead of after it?

In the late 1970s the affiliation for hoops was the Eastern 8.

It's easy to think of JoePa acting pre 1979 and forming Eastern Football from Penn State's Eastern 8 hoops partners - Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, & UMass (no GW or Duquesne). The obvious adds would have been indy rivals Cuse and BC.

Miami at the time would have been outside of JoePa's eastern strategy. By 1990 it was more clear for Miami to benefit from a conference, but not in the 70s. Temple might have been considered at the time. UConn probably not. Maybe Holy Cross.

If JoePa had acted successfully before Gavitt, The Big East Conference in 1980 may have been Providence, UConn, St Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Duquesne, GW, Bonnies, St Joes, and Rhody for 10 members.

The Eastern 10 Conference may have been Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, UMass, Cuse, BC, Holy Cross, and Temple for 10 members.

Those would have been 2 good conferences, but neither would have achieved the greatness of the oBE in basketball in my opinion. Pitt, Nova, and Cuse were key components, as were Georgetown, St Johns, and later UConn.

Anyway, the Pitt vs Penn State decision of 1981 must be looked at in the context of those times, and can be accompanied by many other "what ifs". JoePa was a little late to the game in his eastern football efforts.
What if Superman had landed in Germany instead of America?
 
Well, then he would have lived in Kleindorf....instead of Smallville.

And, technically, Superman did not land in America....it was Superboy who landed near and lived in Smallville...while Superman lived in Metropolis.

I know...but a slow season.
 
See Navy.

The AAC values Football.

Basketball is an after thought.

See Wichita State.

I'm confused. You cite as evidence that the Big East allows one school to play football only, and allows another school to play basketball only, as evidence that the ACC values football and basketball is an after thought? May I suggest you take a college logic course, even if it's only on line.

(By the way -- I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion -- just laughing that you think the premises get you there.)
 
I'm confused. You cite as evidence that the Big East allows one school to play football only, and allows another school to play basketball only, as evidence that the ACC values football and basketball is an after thought? May I suggest you take a college logic course, even if it's only on line.

(By the way -- I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion -- just laughing that you think the premises get you there.)

Actually, you do seem very confused. I think you said "Big East" when you meant American, and "ACC" when you meant AAC. Your conference is still struggling with identity and branding.

The AAC pays Navy a good sum for being "football only". The AAC pays Wichita State a tiny sum to be members with basketball, but not football.
 
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Actually, you do seem very confused. I think you said "Big East" when you meant American, and "ACC" when you meant AAC. Your conference is still struggling with identity and branding.

The AAC pays Navy a good sum for being "football only". The AAC pays Wichita State a tiny sum to be members with basketball, but not football.

Sigh. I apologize for the sloppiness.
 
The P5 came about as primarily a football designation.

/thread
 
Sigh. I apologize for the sloppiness.
No worries, it's hard to say AAC when the ACC is so established, and it's still easy to associate UConn with Big East.

Aside from the reference corrections, do you now connect the logic points on Wichita State and Navy?
 
Aside from the reference corrections, do you now connect the logic points on Wichita State and Navy?

"W"..One gathers wheat and one wears white?
 
Or...one is in a flyover state and the other's alumni pilots flyovers...
 
One plays football in conference, but not basketball, and is highly compensated. One plays basketball in conference, but not football, and receives minimal compensation.

The AAC values football. Basketball is an after thought.
 
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One plays football in conference, but not basketball, and is highly compensated. One plays basketball in conference, but not football, and receives minimal compensation.

The AAC values football. Basketball is an after thought.
This is such a self-serving fantasy.

The Big East values a short-sighted perspective on the future of college athletics.
 
If not for Nova's recent success, the reformulated big east is basically the a10 on low dose steroids. The tourney has shown that.
That's kind of a silly statement.

Here is how silly at the moment: the highest A10 team on KenPom tonight is VCU at 56.

6 of the 10 Big East teams are rated higher.

3 of the 12 American teams are rated higher.

The American is P7. The Big East is better, the A10 is worse (even if you disregard Nova).
 
That's kind of a silly statement.

Here is how silly at the moment: the highest A10 team on KenPom tonight is VCU at 56.

6 of the 10 Big East teams are rated higher.

3 of the 12 American teams are rated higher.

The American is P7. The Big East is better, the A10 is worse (even if you disregard Nova).
The Big East is nothing. It's not a football conference. "Power/Group of" is not a basketball designation.

Heck an argument can be made that it's not a collegiate sports designation. It's a money designation. It just so happens the money is based on the perception provided by football and the othe sports, including basketball, are a beneficiary.
 
The Big East is nothing. It's not a football conference. "Power/Group of" is not a basketball designation.

Heck an argument can be made that it's not a collegiate sports designation. It's a money designation. It just so happens the money is based on the perception provided by football and the othe sports, including basketball, are a beneficiary.

It’s an official designation of the autonomous conferences.

It’s why ‘p6’ is so sad to watch.

Board adopts new Division I structure
 
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Of course but it’s a real designation.

Yes...Good point. I think we sometimes forget that the Autonomous Group was a formalized breakaway of a separate league to supplant the old BCS Automatic Qualifiers.

I don't know what the next iteration would be....I think, though, it will be more inclusion in the playoff structure for the G5.

That might change the CFP Payout ratio some....in 2017...the AAC received $4 million for UCF's bowl and received one fifth of the $81 million G5 allotment...as opposed to the $87 million that the ACC alone received as a P5.

The P5, of course, has cornered the money...and only a strong incentive would pry that upper hand loose from the till.
 
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It'd be a huge win if somehow the AAC got a lock-in deal with the Peach Bowl. I also see no reason the Peach Bowl would do that.
 
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It'd be a huge win if somehow the AAC got a lock-in deal with the Peach Bowl. I also see no reason the Peach Bowl would do that.


Have one already...well, sort of...and if the highest ranked G5 champ isn't the AAC Champ...it would be shame on the conference.

– The highest-ranked conference champion from the American Athletic, Conference USA, MAC, Mountain West and Sun Belt will automatically get one spot in either the College Football Playoff, Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl or PlayStation Fiesta Bowl.
 
That's kind of a silly statement.

Here is how silly at the moment: the highest A10 team on KenPom tonight is VCU at 56.

6 of the 10 Big East teams are rated higher.

3 of the 12 American teams are rated higher.

The American is P7. The Big East is better, the A10 is worse (even if you disregard Nova).

What's silly is you put a lot of stock in anyone rated below the first 10 or 15 teams in any of those rankings. Once you get past that, the next 100 or so can flip one way or the other on any given night, not to mention the non scientific procedure of schedule strength. We've played the Providence's, Seton Halls, Gtowns and Depauls of the world. Not the world beaters you wish to portray them as. If it was such a power player, the tv rankings would not be awful, but short of a big Nova game, the general public is not planning their night around watching the current configuration's bball on tv for the same reasons.
 
How much does Wichita State get?
How much does Navy get?

It's not that complicated.

The fact that Wichita State was added at all shows the conference is "all in" for basketball. It hasn't passed the C7 yet, but it is clearly gaining on them. Every school in the Amercian has finally found themselves a good basketball coach. An argument can be made that the American has a better group of basketball coaches. It starts with coaches, next is recruiting, and then you can remove yourself from this board for good.
 
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I went to Penn State - Miami games in the era of major independents. It is hard to consider that era from today's perspective, as the TV money had not exploded and while the NCAA was still distributing the TV cash.

To really think back at the landscape of the time, Gavitt was fortunate to realize his Big East basketball dream before football dominated conference alignments.

The CFA was formed in the 1970s but TV rights were not really wrestled away from the NCAA until about 1984.

The Big East was able to form before football dictated the alignments. The Pitt vs. Penn State choice for the Big East was also pre 1984.

What if JoePa had acted on a football conference before the Big East, instead of after it?

In the late 1970s the affiliation for hoops was the Eastern 8.

It's easy to think of JoePa acting pre 1979 and forming Eastern Football from Penn State's Eastern 8 hoops partners - Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, & UMass (no GW or Duquesne). The obvious adds would have been indy rivals Cuse and BC.

Miami at the time would have been outside of JoePa's eastern strategy. By 1990 it was more clear for Miami to benefit from a conference, but not in the 70s. Temple might have been considered at the time. UConn probably not. Maybe Holy Cross.

If JoePa had acted successfully before Gavitt, The Big East Conference in 1980 may have been Providence, UConn, St Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Duquesne, GW, Bonnies, St Joes, and Rhody for 10 members.

The Eastern 10 Conference may have been Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Nova, UMass, Cuse, BC, Holy Cross, and Temple for 10 members.

Those would have been 2 good conferences, but neither would have achieved the greatness of the oBE in basketball in my opinion. Pitt, Nova, and Cuse were key components, as were Georgetown, St Johns, and later UConn.

Anyway, the Pitt vs Penn State decision of 1981 must be looked at in the context of those times, and can be accompanied by many other "what ifs". JoePa was a little late to the game in his eastern football efforts.

Yes, and it is likely FSU, Miami, South Carolina, and Virginia Tech would have joined an Eastern FB conference in the early 1980s as they were all independents then. Pitt and Penn State had great success in those years.

And yes, it was Oklahoma and I think Georgia that sued the NCAA to manage their own bowl $$$ arrangements - I think it was a Supreme Court decision that opened the floodgates to conference realignment and later resulted in two division conferences and conference championship games - another $$$ grab by the universities that play top level FB - something that does not happen in collegiate sports in Europe as another poster has said.
 
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something that does not happen in collegiate sports in Europe as another poster has said.

There is a clear division between higher education and sports in nearly every country outside of the US. 'Serious' athletes go to athletic academies, most of which are private but some are quasi-public like the USOC.

The biggest gripe about the structure in European football, for example is that if an athlete crashes out of an academy, his (her) future prospects off the pitch are questionable. Thus, some of the higher profile academies now mandate that athletes between 18 and 22 or so take university classes (usually arranged with a nearby institution or take an apprenticeship (I could write a book on the US education system being too college focused instead of putting some effort into training for trades as not everyone wants to be or needs to have a BA/BS).

Universities in Europe and elsewhere do have sport teams; but, the focus is not on money and the skill level is below premier DI programs in the US. McGill from Montreal, for example, usually does a pre-season hockey tour of a few US Universities and rarely wins against the big programs. Yale beat them 5-2 this season and UMaine beat UPEI 6-1.

When I studied in France for a semester, I tried-out for, made, and started for their football/soccer team. It was a lot of fun, especially the post-game socials; but, it the skill level was roughly middle of the road DIII. Even the big University in the city, whose team does travel in France and an adjacent country or two to play fellow universities, was maybe equal to a low DI program. The only recruiting they did was on-campus and they were better than my school (we did not play each other formally) because they drew from a student body of 45,000 versus the roughly 2,000 undergraduates at my small, specialty school.
 
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The fact that Wichita State was added at all shows the conference is "all in" for basketball.

The question is how the AAC values football vs. how it values basketball. You have an example for each. Navy and Wichita State.

The answer is that Wichita gets squat, and Navy is more like a full revenue member.

So for UConn, stay in the AAC for football and get that payday. It's a good spot for football, as it is for Navy.

Take hoops and all other sports to the Big East and get that payday. It looks like the AD could use a few bucks more.

Could UConn negotiate this position? Some might call it a long shot, but at the same time they are hoping for an ACC invite to save the program. Negotiating football-only in the AAC isn't a long shot, at least in comparison to that pending P5 invite.
 
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