Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

[meyers7]

Today is a more competitive environment than the UConn glory years. More parity and greater spread nationally in talent. NC’s are a measure of team wide talent and level of competition. But whatever...
A better reply to this question might be “No (this person) was because she (did this)”. But it’s okay fandom is about opinion and loyalty. All I know is NO D-1 player has ever done what she has done. So there’s that....

The glory years were like 4 years ago. And really they've still made the FF the last 3. Not sure UCONN isn't still in their glory years.

 

[bballnut90]

Is she better than Kelsey Plum?

Far far better than Plum IMO. Plum was an inefficient volume shooter until her senior year when she had a truly ridiculous season averaging nearly 32ppg while playing quite efficiently. Through her junior year Plum though had about a 1:1 A/TO ratio, and a career shooting percentage of 40.9%. You could argue Plum's best season is as good or even better than Sabrina's best season, but the other 3 handily go in favor of Sabrina.

 

[Zanzman]

Sorry. Don't like internet arguments and hope everybody is okay. As I said GOAT is a silly and subjective term. Who is the Men's Goat? Michael Jordan? Kobe Bryant? LeBron James? None of them had the above criteria of "2 or more" NC's. so...silly criteria.

My own WBB Top Player list allowing for different eras: Nancy Lieberman, Cheryl Miller, Bev Smith, Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Griner, Catchings...so many others. Nice to see Sabrina even in the discussion with these greats but THERE IS NO ACTUAL GOAT. Come on...

Let's just enjoy the game and the talent displayed.

My point is Diana carried UConn to championships her lady 2 years with a limited supporting cast

 

[bballnut90]

I wasn't really thinking of that in terms of how Ionescu and Plum compare to each other. Sabrina certainly had much more talent around her than Kelsey did. As far as I know Osahor and Walton were the only other Huskies drafted and I'm pretty sure neither ever made a roster.

I wasn't comparing her to Kelsey in that post, just referring to the Bradley/Bird comparison. But I agree, Sabrina has had much better teammates than Plum did. Although I did love me some Osahor, such a unique player and really fun to watch.

 

[Zanzman]

Could AZFan be pandering to the audience?

I am hesitant to anoint Ionescu with that moniker. She may lead her team to two Final Fours and one national title. Or, one Final Four.

If Taurasi had played for Graves in the Oregon system and with Ionescu's teammates, would she have had the internal drive to compile similar stats and take her team even further than Ionescu has?

Yes

 

[CL82]

She is winning 2+ NCs in one year?

I have to say I would count that in favor of her being the greatest of all time.

 

[triaddukefan]

Surely I can't be the only one who hates the word/phrase GOAT. Seems like the last few years...... its GOAT this.. or GOAT that.

That being said... #20 for Oregon is a fine player.

 

[diggerfoot]

Three straight Pac-12 Championships is hardly a "shortage". Just no NC along with the vast majority of teams and players that play the game. Larry Bird and Bill Bradley are excellent examples on the men's side of great players who could carry their teams but only so far in the end.

???? Well, that was strange. Did you even read the context in which I presented the sentence you quoted or did you conveniently ignored the rest because it does not fit well into your narrative. Quick summary of the more salient points. Graves performance at Gonzaga and Oregon reveals him to be a better coach than the ones for Bird and Bradley, thus a great player for Grave should take the team farther for him than Bird or Bradley did for their coaches, particularly if surrounded by a stronger supporting cast than Bird and Bradley, which also appears to be the case.

In its entirety, the snippet you quoted implies the complete opposite of what you made it into. Well done!

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The glory years were like 4 years ago. And really they've still made the FF the last 3. Not sure UCONN isn't still in their glory years.

I don't know if these are per se UConn's Glory Years - but their years of being one of the top - and sometimes the top - program are far from over. I would bet money on UConn winning a National Championship - in fact, phrased "at least one and probably more" in the next 4 years. I would not bet on it this year, but don't consider it impossible.

Anyone who thinks UConn's days are past is really not thinking. Um, they lost 3 games this year, to the 3 top teams.

 

[Floridaduck]

In its entirety, the snippet you quoted implies the complete opposite of what you made it into. Well done!

My error. Sorry. Sometimes I’m on an iPad and it betrays me.

 

[Floridaduck]

Um, they lost 3 games this year, to the 3 top teams.

All power to Geno for scheduling such a strong ooc (including ND and Tenn although down this year). Also @Depaul.
Hopefully the Big East will finally provide more in-conference competition in the years ahead with more interesting games and challenges.

 

[Figurehead]

That's like saying is Summitt, Vandeever or Geno A. is the GOAT of all time coaches. Bet it would be evenly split depending on loyalties.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

All power to Geno for scheduling such a strong ooc (including ND and Tenn although down this year).
Hopefully the Big East will finally provide more in-conference competition in the years ahead with more interesting games and challenges.

I don't expect so. As a Rutgers fan and long time conference mate of UConn, they were challenged some in the Big East and still won almost all regular season and tournament championships. They had to "work harder" I guess to do it, but do it they did. If no-one else remembers, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, while Geno always scheduled a decent out of conference slate, it was no where near what it has been lately.

 

[bballnut90]

I don't know if these are per se UConn's Glory Years - but their years of being one of the top - and sometimes the top - program are far from over. I would bet money on UConn winning a National Championship - in fact, phrased "at least one and probably more" in the next 4 years. I would not bet on it this year, but don't consider it impossible.

Anyone who thinks UConn's days are past is really not thinking. Um, they lost 3 games this year, to the 3 top teams.

The recruiting has been on fire for UCONN despite a lot of concerned fans regarding lack of depth.

UCONN typically has at least 2 of the 4 #1 recruits playing college basketball and gets a top 5-10 recruit most years. They have an incoming transfer who was #2 overall in 2017, #1 in 2020 committed, #5 in 2021 and #3 in 2022. Embarrassment of riches has held strong since the mid 90s and they should stay in the title hunt for years to come.

 

[Mulder]

On a scale of 1-10, Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi, Sheryl Swoopes, and Kelsey Plum were 10s.

Sabrina Ionescu = 9.25.

 

[azfan]

Could AZFan be pandering to the audience?

I am hesitant to anoint Ionescu with that moniker. She may lead her team to two Final Fours and one national title. Or, one Final Four.

If Taurasi had played for Graves in the Oregon system and with Ionescu's teammates, would she have had the internal drive to compile similar stats and take her team even further than Ionescu has?

I've had the opportunity to enjoy Diana's body of work, first in college and now with the Mercury. To my eye, no one is close

In my mind along with Serena Williams she isone of the greatest athletes of all time and without peer in WBB.

Sabrina is a supremely talent....with unparalleled individual stats and a motor that rivals Kobe.

As Geno said, we have Di and they don't. And Sabrina, while elite, is no Di.

Even if Sabrina were to surpass the WNBA all time leader in scoring, win more than three WNBA titled, lead her college team to two NCs, win 4 Olympic gold medals....Di would still be the GOAT

 

[DefenseBB]

On a scale of 1-10, Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi, Sheryl Swoopes, and Kelsey Plum Breanna Stewart were 10s.

Sabrina Ionescu = 9.25.

you had me right up to Kelsey Plum...so I fixed it for you.

 

[Carnac]

That question is similar to a "chicken or egg" inquiry. There are way too many great women basketball players that came before her, some with a championship in their back pocket to suggest such heresy at this point in her career. We need to see her at the next level for an appreciable amount of time before we can honestly/seriously give her any consideration for GOAT.

For starters she has to get past Nancy Lieberman, Cheryl Miller, Bev Smith, Sue Bird, Brittney Griner, Sheryl Swoopes, Tina Thompson, Lisa Leslie, Breanna Stewart and Tamika Catchings (and a few others). Don't forget about Lynette Woodard. She scored 122 more career points (3649) at Kansas (1978-1981) than Kelsey Plum (3527). Her record(s) is not recognized by the NCAA because it was done BEFORE the NCAA was formed. Then she has to approach Maya and Diana.

 

[azfan]

Hope this helps...and doesn't violate fair use.



Sabrina and others can be great, there is only Diana at the top.

 

[azfan]

On a scale of 1-10, Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi, Sheryl Swoopes, and Kelsey Plum were 10s.

Sabrina Ionescu = 9.25.

Diana is 11.

Mayà, Sheryl and Stewie are 10s.

Kelsey who lite up the Sun Devils like a Roman Candle is a 9.

 

[formerlurker]

GOATS wear ringS

 

[azfan]

GOATS wear ringS

They wear those rings because they will their team and they lead their team to ultimate victory.

There are many amazing and outstanding players who have great gifts and passion for the game who don't do this.

This does not diminish their greatness.i In Sabrina's case she's a wondrous athlete with passion and skill. But as this poster points out unlike Diana she is not yet willed or let her team to the ultimate victory.

Diana has done this in college, in the pros, and in the Olympics. And she is done it with an unbelievable level of drive determination passion and skill.

In the men's game I think there can be a case made for one of three unbelievable players Michael, Kobe, or Kareem.

In the women's game 1 figure stands above - Diana Taurasi.

 

[Figurehead]

Who makes the best small size best value sedan? Mazda, Toyota, Honda or Nissan. Car and Driver says one thing. Edmunds says another and yet Car Max is different from the other two. So I asked two neighbors and get two different answers again. Then I read the the write ups on each and find out each reviewer emphasizes different aspect of each car to fit his own criteria.

 

[Mulder]

The bona fide G.O.A.T.! ! !
Sheryl Swoopes.

 

[Floridaduck]

Is this the same Diana Taurasi who’s USA team played in Eugene earlier this season? Same Sue Bird? Same Kelsey Plum? Etc. Just asking. Because, if I recall, there was another player on the floor that night who willed her team to to a pretty clear and convincing victory.
Sorry it just seems funny to me to read paeons about how unbeatable, how on another level all these other players were and are when there is a clear head to head comparison that doesn’t get mentioned
No snark here. Just, well, funny... Scoreboard, baby, as the kids say

 

[Zanzman]

Clear comparison when bird and DT are coming back from major surgery

 

[baggerbob]

Is this the same Diana Taurasi who’s USA team played in Eugene earlier this season? Same Sue Bird? Same Kelsey Plum? Etc. Just asking. Because, if I recall, there was another player on the floor that night who willed her team to to a pretty clear and convincing victory.
Sorry it just seems funny to me to read paeons about how unbeatable, how on another level all these other players were and are when there is a clear head to head comparison that doesn’t get mentioned
No snark here. Just, well, funny... Scoreboard, baby, as the kids say

A team without EDD, Stewie and Griner isn't the True National Team. So let's be realistic, and not foolish. Sabrina is a good player, but let's wait a few years, and come back when she joins EDD and Stewie as MVP in the WNBA or World Cup or the Olympics.

 

[npignatjr]

I've had the opportunity to enjoy Diana's body of work, first in college and now with the Mercury. To my eye, no one is close

In my mind along with Serena Williams she isone of the greatest athletes of all time and without peer in WBB.

Sabrina is a supremely talent....with unparalleled individual stats and a motor that rivals Kobe.

As Geno said, we have Di and they don't. And Sabrina, while elite, is no Di.

Even if Sabrina were to surpass the WNBA all time leader in scoring, win more than three WNBA titled, lead her college team to two NCs, win 4 Olympic gold medals....Di would still be the GOAT

She is a senior so no more than 1 possible NCs. D won 2 NCs with no A As besides her on the team, Sabrina has been playing with a couple.

 

[Floridaduck]

A team without EDD, Stewie and Griner isn't the True National Team. So let's be realistic, and not foolish. Sabrina is a good player, but let's wait a few years, and come back when she joins EDD and Stewie as MVP in the WNBA or World Cup or the Olympics.

But, but, but.... I thought the point of all these goat posts was that these goats didn’t need all that help. That they themselves would carry any group to victory. Now DT needs EDD and the like to beat some college team. Well, I guess I was misreading previous posts.

 

[UConnCat]