Is Jim Beoheim The Most Overrated Coach in Sports?

[Mattyshangs]

I don't care about Boeheim, he seems like a pr i ck but people who don't know Calhoun behind the scenes could say the same thing about him. I will say that I can't think of a single program where the gap between the arrogance of the fans and the actual success of the basketball program is larger than with Syracuse.

Very true.

 

[boog204]

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived. Including my grandfather who had seen Ruth in his prime.

 

[mauconnfan]

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

Huh? Oh I get the sarcasm

 

[intlzncster]

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived. Including my grandfather who had seen Ruth in his prime.

Unless Dimaggio was capable of winning 20 games a year pitching as well, it's got to go to Ruth on that alone. And steroids aside, I've never seen anybody as good at everything as Barry Bonds in his prime (and no, I was not alive for JD). jmo though

 

[Husky25]

Unless Dimaggio was capable of winning 20 games a year pitching as well, it's got to go to Ruth on that alone. And steroids aside, I've never seen anybody as good at everything as Barry Bonds in his prime (and no, I was not alive for JD). jmo though

Babe Ruth barely played the field as a Red Sox and barely pitched as a Yankee, so the "as well" part of your argument is out the window.

 

[formerlurker]

Boeheim to The Babe in 3 pages? Can I still ask for pizza suggestions seeing as how it's still pre-season?

 

[intlzncster]

Babe Ruth barely played the field as a Red Sox and barely pitched as a Yankee, so the "as well" part of your argument is out the window.

What does that matter? He did it during his career. Who cares what team he did it for where? He play outfield during his career. He also pitched well. He hit like a god. He did it all.

 

[boog204]

Should've qualified it w/ "best all-around position player." My grandfather was not yet born to see Babe the pitcher. But point well-taken. No player will ever have the pitching and hitting resume that Ruth had. But my grandfather always spoke so incredibly highly of how "perfect" DiMaggio was as a player. You have to remember that Joe D missed 4 years in his prime to be in the military. Makes his numbers a bit less than what they should be; Ted Williams' too, which is a frightening realization.

 

[David 76]

Ruth lost years of offensive numbers to pitching. It is scary what these guys, including Berra, did in shortened careers.
But the great Ted Williams knew who the greatest baseball player of his era was: Joltin Joe

 

[David 76]

On Topic
Can I put a vote in for Roy Williams. I know many will freak out on this. He is a very good coach. But he is not with Calhoun, Izzo, K,
He woke up on 3rd base at UNC and he participated in a crooked program

 

[temery]

Should've qualified it w/ "best all-around position player." My grandfather was not yet born to see Babe the pitcher. But point well-taken. No player will ever have the pitching and hitting resume that Ruth had. But my grandfather always spoke so incredibly highly of how "perfect" DiMaggio was as a player. You have to remember that Joe D missed 4 years in his prime to be in the military. Makes his numbers a bit less than what they should be; Ted Williams' too, which is a frightening realization.

Not to take anything away from his baseball creds, but Joe D's "service" was in name only. He played baseball, and dipped his toes in the waters of Hawaii. Ted Williams, on the other hand, was the poster child of an athlete serving his country in war time - two wars, to be accurate.

 

[Paesano]

On Topic
Can I put a vote in for Roy Williams. I know many will freak out on this. He is a very good coach. But he is not with Calhoun, Izzo, K,
He woke up on 3rd base at UNC and he participated in a crooked program

Valid choice. People with an agenda ignore the fact that the question is not whether these guys were good or not but whether they were overrated. Big difference. Roy is a good choice but I would go with the squid. He does not deserve to be in the HOF and moreso than Boeheim.

 

[David 76]

^^^ Yes.
As much of a curmudgeon as The Splendid Splinter could be,he was a great American hero.
Wasn't Pat Summeral his war buddy & friend for life?
Amazing
Berra was part of the D-Day landing

 

[CallMeBruce]

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived.

If the second is true, then so is the first. There's no way DiMaggio was the best player ever, and I'm a Yankee fan.

 

[Carduccib]

has no effective defensive scheme, has one national title. OVERRATED

 

[David 76]

Joe D can't be the best ever because he is the 3rd best Yankee ever, Best all-around position player of his day, easily a top ten GOAT player

 

[boog204]

Not to take anything away from his baseball creds, but Joe D's "service" was in name only. He played baseball, and dipped his toes in the waters of Hawaii. Ted Williams, on the other hand, was the poster child of an athlete serving his country in war time - two wars, to be accurate.

Absolutely true... Didn't John Wayne create his persona based on Williams?

 

[intlzncster]

Joe D can't be the best ever because he is the 3rd best Yankee ever, Best all-around position player of his day, easily a top ten GOAT player

Easily? Not imo. Just on the Yankees, Ruth, gehrig, mantle 1,2,3 imo.

 

[Taco]

On Topic Can I put a vote in for Roy Williams. I know many will freak out on this. He is a very good coach. But he is not with Calhoun, Izzo, K, He woke up on 3rd base at UNC and he participated in a crooked program

^^^
This... Izzo does more with less & Roy does less with more. I'd add Sean Miller at AZ's coach & Rick Barnes over Izzo. They both have underachieved considering the talent they've had to work with.

 

[David 76]

Easily? Not imo. Just on the Yankees, Ruth, gehrig, mantle 1,2,3 imo.

I think you are in a minority with Mantle over DiMaggio, but it is closer than most people think. BA 325 to 298 DiMaggio, OBP 421 to 396 Mantle, SLG 579 to 557 DiMaggio. HR per year 30 to 28 Mantle, runs scored/yr 107 to 93 DiMaggio,

Two interesting stats: Mantle walked 1,733 times, DiMaggio only 790. Mantle struck out 1,700 times, DiMaggio only 369 times in 13 years. That is 28 times per year on average! The man hit a home run as often as he struck out. Incredibly efficient and graceful player. It would have been interesting to see the results if Joe didn't lose 3 prime years or if Mickey's legs didn't get messed up, or if his personal issues didn't drag down his later years

On your point that it may not be easy for Joe D. to make the top ten, I agree. He might not make it, it wouldn't be easy

 

[Huskygamble19]

No he is not overrated...Just recruit a few guys that can move their feet and have silly putty arms and stick em out on the perimeter and voila!...You have a great coach.

 

[Tenspro2002]

B*tch, please. Ted Williams had better rate stats and better counting stats than Joe DiMaggio, despite both of them losing time to WWII (and Williams also losing time to Korea). There is no comparison here.

Williams career - .344/.482/.634 (1.116 OPS) [the OBP is best all time, period]
DiMaggio career - .325/.398/.579 (.977 OPS)

Williams career - 521 HR, 1839 RBI, 2021 BB (9788 PA)
DiMaggio career - 361 HR, 1537 RBI, 790 BB (7673 PA)

You might say "DiMaggio played a premium defensive position", and you'd be right. But looking at WAR, which accounts for that,

Williams career - 123.1 WAR (18 seasons, ignoring 6 games in 1952, but counting 37 games in 1953; ~7 WAR/season)
DiMaggio career - 78.1 WAR (13 seasons; ~6 WAR/season)

One could argue that Babe Ruth is a closer comparison to Ted Williams than Joe DiMaggio is, especially if you give Ted those wartime years back into his prime.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I think you are in a minority with Mantle over DiMaggio, but it is closer than most people think. BA 325 to 298 DiMaggio, OBP 421 to 396 Mantle, SLG 579 to 557 DiMaggio. HR per year 30 to 28 Mantle, runs scored/yr 107 to 93 DiMaggio,

Two interesting stats: Mantle walked 1,733 times, DiMaggio only 790. Mantle struck out 1,700 times, DiMaggio only 369 times in 13 years. That is 28 times per year on average! The man hit a home run as often as he struck out. Incredibly efficient and graceful player. It would have been interesting to see the results if Joe didn't lose 3 prime years or if Mickey's legs didn't get messed up, or if his personal issues didn't drag down his later years

On your point that it may not be easy for Joe D. to make the top ten, I agree. He might not make it, it wouldn't be easy

Prime Mantle was better than prime DiMaggio, and Mantle had the longer career. 112.3 WAR to 83 WAR. The walks are much more important than the strikeouts, which don't have that big of an effect on an offensive player's value.

 

[David 76]

was anybody comparing Williams and DiMaggio?

 

[UChusky916]

It looks like my opinion will be unpopular, but I think the guy is a great coach. He's not Calhoun, but hardly anybody is. As much as I hate zone defense...he's really good at both teaching it and recruiting for it. And when you look at the kids he gets, he doesn't exactly have his pick of the crop. The program is more similar to UConn than it is Duke or UNC.

In my opinion the most overrated coach in the country is Tom Izzo. And that doesn't mean I think he's anything less than great. He's a sure-fire Hall of Famer.

But the divide between the way people view Boeheim and the way they view Izzo is way, way bigger than it should be. They're close to equals, IMO, and one is celebrated while the other is often a punch line. And I say all this as somebody who hates Syracuse hoops.

I normally agree with most of your posts... but I think you're way off with this one. Izzo has always been a guy, similarly to Calhoun, who didn't get multiple burger boys every year like Duke/UNC/KU/UK, yet CONSTANTLY had has team playing their best basketball by March. 7 final fours in 18 years is no accident. He does more with less than any coach in the NCAA, period. Only lately has he started to reel in some higher profile recruits as a result of his success.

Plain and simply... post-season success is a better indicator of how well your team is coached... and that's why there's a big disparity in terms of how Boeheim and Izzo are viewed. They're polar opposites in that regard.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think Boeheim is an amazing coach. I don't know how anyone wins in that miserable, vacant, hellhole of a city. Boeheim will look like Wooden, Rupp, Calhoun and Kzyzewski rolled into one 30 years after he retires.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I think Boeheim is an amazing coach. I don't know how anyone wins in that miserable, vacant, hellhole of a city. Boeheim will look like Wooden, Rupp, Calhoun and Kzyzewski rolled into one 30 years after he retires.

You just have to outdo yourself at every possible opportunity, don't you? I mean even sentence by sentence in this one post.

 

[junglehusky]

Bonus points to OP for spelling it Beoheim.

 

[BUConn10]

The fruit heads on the Syracuse board caught wind of this thread. Can anyone mount a guess as to what the first comeback/insult to the post they copy pasted from this thread was? If you guessed "worn out conference affiliation insult" you are correct! Seriously, what would Syracuse fans have done with themselves if they hadn't gotten the ACC invite? As it stands it's currently the only thing giving that fanbase any semblance of joy, because we sure as hell know they don't have anything to be happy about regarding the actual game of basketball or the mediocre product they put on the court year after year.

 

[Husky25]

The fruit heads on the Syracuse board caught wind of this thread. Can anyone mount a guess as to what the first comeback/insult to the post they copy pasted from this thread was? If you guessed "worn out conference affiliation insult" you are correct! Seriously, what would Syracuse fans have done with themselves if they hadn't gotten the ACC invite? As it stands it's currently the only thing giving that fanbase any semblance of joy, because we sure as hell know they don't have anything to be happy about regarding the actual game of basketball or the mediocre product they put on the court year after year.

I feel oddly honored.