Is Jim Beoheim The Most Overrated Coach in Sports?

[Husky25]

Can't blame them, have you seen the list of QBs since?

Long, if not undistinguished.

 

[Slasher]

"Really good" and "overrated" are not mutually exclusive.

Joe Namath was a really good QB. Joe Namath is a Hall of fame QB. Joe Namath is overrated, particularly by Jets' fans.

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

 

[UCbcm]

Here's how I evaluate Izzo: Ever meet a Sparty fan? They all suck. All of them. Therefore, by the Associative Property, Izzo sucks too.

My best friend is a Michigan State fan. He definitely likes to trash talk but is quickly silenced when I mention three words: Madison Square Garden. He considers that one of his worst "sports days"ever. To make it even more gratifying, he was sitting right next to me in the Garden during that game.

 

[Husky25]

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

At the risk of diverting by force the intended destination of this thread, but:

Well...um...I never personally saw him play. My father was 4 years old when he retired, but from what I've read and from the old footage I've seen, no. No he doesn't.

 

[Husky1964]

Met Izzo in the ND bookstore before a MSU ND football game. Could not have been nicer. Mentioned we would play him that season, posed for pics, genuine nice guy. Also a close JC friend who spoke at his Uconn sendoff.

 

[August_West]

"Really good" and "overrated" are not mutually exclusive.

Joe Namath was a really good QB. Joe Namath is a Hall of fame QB. Joe Namath is overrated, particularly by Jets' fans.

If overrated means swilling scotch, banging NYC 10's 3 at time on a nightly basis, and single handedly steering the biggest "big spot" upset in the history of sports after publicly guaranteeing it was going to happen, and then changed the face of pro sports I would like to be called "overrated" too.

Don't ever diss Broadway Joe again.

 

[Husky25]

If overrated means swilling scotch, banging NYC 10's 3 at time on a nightly basis, and single handedly steering the biggest "big spot" upset in the history of sports after publicly guaranteeing it was going to happen, and then changed the face of pro sports I would like to be called "overrated" too.

Don't ever diss Broadway Joe again.

If being an alcoholic womanizing gigolo is all that is required to get into the Football Hall of Fame, my bust should have been cast for Canton 12 years ago!!! Those things have nothing to do with football.

Namath completed less than 50% of his passes in 1968 and threw more INTs than TDs. The Colts turned the ball over 5 times in Super Bowl III and Matt Snell had 121 yards rushing, 40 yards receiving, and the Jets' only TD.

Namath may have very good, but it still doesn't preclude him from being overrated.

 

[intlzncster]

If overrated means swilling scotch, banging NYC 10's 3 at time on a nightly basis, and single handedly steering the biggest "big spot" upset in the history of sports after publicly guaranteeing it was going to happen, and then changed the face of pro sports I would like to be called "overrated" too.Don't ever diss Broadway Joe again.

In professional sports. USA Hockey 1980 and it's no contest. Accountants vs full on professional demons.

 

[superjohn]

It looks like my opinion will be unpopular, but I think the guy is a great coach. He's not Calhoun, but hardly anybody is. As much as I hate zone defense...he's really good at both teaching it and recruiting for it. And when you look at the kids he gets, he doesn't exactly have his pick of the crop. The program is more similar to UConn than it is Duke or UNC.

In my opinion the most overrated coach in the country is Tom Izzo. And that doesn't mean I think he's anything less than great. He's a sure-fire Hall of Famer.

But the divide between the way people view Boeheim and the way they view Izzo is way, way bigger than it should be. They're close to equals, IMO, and one is celebrated while the other is often a punch line. And I say all this as somebody who hates Syracuse hoops.

Izzo takes on any team in the nation anywhere and has already won more big games than Boeheim has won in 40 years. Boeheim is scared to play outside of upstate New York.

 

[superjohn]

Final fours are obviously far more decorative than elite eights, but in reality they are just as arbitrary as elite eights or sweet sixteen's or anything else that isn't the number one goal, a national championship. And while I concede that Izzo is a better tournament coach, perhaps by a significant margin, there is more to team building than that.

The ability to recruit and develop talent is something I feel Izzo could be better at. When have you ever watched a Michigan State team and said, "damn, this team is loaded"? That's admittedly a subjective qualification, especially since the tournament results confirm that he has built some very good teams. Very good is a long way from great, though, and despite the seven final four appearances, I can't neglect the fact that when they get to the big stage they frequently get punked. Simply put, Spartan rosters rarely feature the sort of unbridled talent that you need to win games against Duke, UNC, etc. At some point, that falls on the head coach.

Look at the last six years. In my opinion, Boeheim could have conceivably won a title with four of them. Some would say that reflects poorly on his ability to maximize his opportunities. I say he maximized his opportunities by building great teams. The fact that he only brought one of those teams to the final four doesn't mean much to me in the grand scheme.

Go back seven years, and MSU has been to three final fours. That's impressive. Go back to 2005 and he's been to four. Undoubtedly, these numbers validate him as a great coach. Does it make him a better coach than Boeheim? Eh, maybe to some.

Boeheim's had some great teams that lost by two or three points in the sweet sixteen or elite eight. Izzo's had some really good teams that lost by a thousand in the final four. At some point, you're either national champs or you're not. Izzo gets credit, justifiably, for getting his teams close. I'm just not sure they've been any closer than Boeheim's.

Yes, Izzo's teams have been punked in final 4 games but in every punking the other team was way more talented. He almost always gets the most out of his talent and now that he will have possibly the best recruiting class next year it will be interesting to see what he does with it.

 

[Mattyshangs]

I don't care about Boeheim, he seems like a pr i ck but people who don't know Calhoun behind the scenes could say the same thing about him. I will say that I can't think of a single program where the gap between the arrogance of the fans and the actual success of the basketball program is larger than with Syracuse.

Very true.

 

[boog204]

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived. Including my grandfather who had seen Ruth in his prime.

 

[mauconnfan]

Joe DiMaggio comes to mind...

Huh? Oh I get the sarcasm

 

[intlzncster]

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived. Including my grandfather who had seen Ruth in his prime.

Unless Dimaggio was capable of winning 20 games a year pitching as well, it's got to go to Ruth on that alone. And steroids aside, I've never seen anybody as good at everything as Barry Bonds in his prime (and no, I was not alive for JD). jmo though

 

[Husky25]

Unless Dimaggio was capable of winning 20 games a year pitching as well, it's got to go to Ruth on that alone. And steroids aside, I've never seen anybody as good at everything as Barry Bonds in his prime (and no, I was not alive for JD). jmo though

Babe Ruth barely played the field as a Red Sox and barely pitched as a Yankee, so the "as well" part of your argument is out the window.

 

[formerlurker]

Boeheim to The Babe in 3 pages? Can I still ask for pizza suggestions seeing as how it's still pre-season?

 

[intlzncster]

Babe Ruth barely played the field as a Red Sox and barely pitched as a Yankee, so the "as well" part of your argument is out the window.

What does that matter? He did it during his career. Who cares what team he did it for where? He play outfield during his career. He also pitched well. He hit like a god. He did it all.

 

[boog204]

Should've qualified it w/ "best all-around position player." My grandfather was not yet born to see Babe the pitcher. But point well-taken. No player will ever have the pitching and hitting resume that Ruth had. But my grandfather always spoke so incredibly highly of how "perfect" DiMaggio was as a player. You have to remember that Joe D missed 4 years in his prime to be in the military. Makes his numbers a bit less than what they should be; Ted Williams' too, which is a frightening realization.

 

[David 76]

Ruth lost years of offensive numbers to pitching. It is scary what these guys, including Berra, did in shortened careers.
But the great Ted Williams knew who the greatest baseball player of his era was: Joltin Joe

 

[David 76]

On Topic
Can I put a vote in for Roy Williams. I know many will freak out on this. He is a very good coach. But he is not with Calhoun, Izzo, K,
He woke up on 3rd base at UNC and he participated in a crooked program

 

[temery]

Should've qualified it w/ "best all-around position player." My grandfather was not yet born to see Babe the pitcher. But point well-taken. No player will ever have the pitching and hitting resume that Ruth had. But my grandfather always spoke so incredibly highly of how "perfect" DiMaggio was as a player. You have to remember that Joe D missed 4 years in his prime to be in the military. Makes his numbers a bit less than what they should be; Ted Williams' too, which is a frightening realization.

Not to take anything away from his baseball creds, but Joe D's "service" was in name only. He played baseball, and dipped his toes in the waters of Hawaii. Ted Williams, on the other hand, was the poster child of an athlete serving his country in war time - two wars, to be accurate.

 

[Paesano]

On Topic
Can I put a vote in for Roy Williams. I know many will freak out on this. He is a very good coach. But he is not with Calhoun, Izzo, K,
He woke up on 3rd base at UNC and he participated in a crooked program

Valid choice. People with an agenda ignore the fact that the question is not whether these guys were good or not but whether they were overrated. Big difference. Roy is a good choice but I would go with the squid. He does not deserve to be in the HOF and moreso than Boeheim.

 

[David 76]

^^^ Yes.
As much of a curmudgeon as The Splendid Splinter could be,he was a great American hero.
Wasn't Pat Summeral his war buddy & friend for life?
Amazing
Berra was part of the D-Day landing

 

[CallMeBruce]

Are you saying that Joe DiMaggio was overrated? There are some who think he may have been the best all-around player to have ever lived.

If the second is true, then so is the first. There's no way DiMaggio was the best player ever, and I'm a Yankee fan.

 

[Carduccib]

has no effective defensive scheme, has one national title. OVERRATED