Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[Yawkey Way]

. Every single ACC football team, other than Pitt and BC, is going to happy to the point of delirium telling recruits they play ND every 3rd year..

And don't exclude BC in this Domer fan, as most BC fans, players, recruits I know would be joyfully delirious even if all 13 football games of theirs each year were with ND . Heck,if you want to play in Boston, they'll even make you feel right at home by setting up Fenway Park, and let you guys call it a home game, if that gets it done for you. BC can never get enough of ND, from what they tell me over there at Chestnut Hill. They'll play you in marbles if you want. (...haha!)

 

[btstimpy]

From my recollection, The ACC had their contract already renegotiated with ESPN after ND partially came aboard. They filled in UMD's position with Louisville about a week after UMD left. There was talk, don't know how true, that FSU was not happy and they, along with Clemson, pushed for Louisville's addition. Swofford then pushed for, and got a GoR by, this is where I may be absolutely wrong here, an uneven distribution of money.

Pitt is useless to The Big10. They have the undisputed #1 brand in the huge state of Pennsylvania. Syracuse is ramping down their research and voluntarily left The AAU (how ever you feel about academics and athletics, The Big10 does care). Pitt and 'Cuse were good for the ACC. Both good and in 'Cuse's case, very good basketball brands that put The ACC in those areas. Rutgers and UMD were what The Big10 deemed right for their plan at the time. If this was the end game, The Big10 got entrance into The DC area and a toe in the door of The NYC market. If Fox can leverage The BTN with YES, whatever else happens is gravy. If not? They have a piece of the puzzle and a launching pad for easy assimilation into the conference.

Revenue sharing in the ACC is equal with the exception of Notre Dame because Notre Dame doesn't get compensated by the ACC for football. Notre Dame has its own contract with NBC Sports. Florida State and Clemson became more comfortable with the ACC after they looked around and could not find a better deal anywhere. The SEC didn't want them. And now that FSU has won another football national championship and Clemson a BCS bowl, neither are complaining.

About the equal revenue sharing, one of the biggest proponents of this is actually Florida State.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?sid=1061&script=/content.asp&cid=1609569

The Contract with ESPN was renegotiated after Pitt and Syracuse joined, renegotiated again after Notre Dame joined, and renegotiated a third time after the Grand of Rights.

 

[btstimpy]

If the ACC was concerned about revenue, UConn would have been the first team offered over all the others.

I do want to see the ACC offer UConn. I quite frankly don't know what they are waiting on. I mean I don't and I do. It all has to be orchestrated to get more money from ESPN. Adding 5 teams at once would generate less money than 2 at a time base on how the contract with ESPN is structured. I don't think that anyone that has been added was a bad addition though. You will see no articles about the ACC making mistakes like you just read about the Big Ten making a mistake by taking Rutgers over UConn or last year's articles about the Big XII making a mistake taking West Virginia over Louisville.

 

[SAMCRO]

You mean that there were even 3 BE fans who felt that the BE could lose Miami and VT in football and replace them with Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF and be better?

Yup, and two of the most vocal fan bases about that are now in the ACC (SyraPitt). Some credit to Cuse as they did have a faction of fans that had zero positives to say about the BE from '04, but Pitt was all in...balls deep. Sit tight, let's give it a 7-10 years.

As for your school MSNDfan, it's a matter of 3-4 years before animosity begins surfacing and 7 or so years before it's thru the roof. Personally, I have no quips w/ how ND operates. They've been up front all along about what they are doing. Let's not get it twisted though, when the Irish start bumping southern schools down on the bowl selection ladder, our southern friends will figuratively lose their .

 

[Fishy]

ESPN isn't going to give the ACC any more money for expanding. The Big East no longer exists, the grant of rights has been signed - there's no leverage left.

Adding UConn now would actually cost ESPN money as their AAC inventory would become profoundly unappealing.

 

[dayooper]

Revenue sharing in the ACC is equal with the exception of Notre Dame because Notre Dame doesn't get compensated by the ACC for football. Notre Dame has its own contract with NBC Sports. Florida State and Clemson became more comfortable with the ACC after they looked around and could not find a better deal anywhere. The SEC didn't want them. And now that FSU has won another football national championship and Clemson a BCS bowl, neither are complaining.

About the equal revenue sharing, one of the biggest proponents of this is actually Florida State.

https://floridastate com/barrier_noentry.asp?sid=1061&script=/content.asp&cid=1609569

The Contract with ESPN was renegotiated after Pitt and Syracuse joined, renegotiated again after Notre Dame joined, and renegotiated a third time after the Grand of Rights.

Thanks, I vaguely remember something about more bowl money going to whomever was in the the better paying bowls. I was wrong, won't be the last time either.

 

[SAMCRO]

Louisville football has 3 BCS bowl wins in 25 years, 2 within a decade. How many does Maryland have?

It's laughable to hear ACC fans talk about UL's success in BCS games now, when years ago they were talking down the BE's results in the same games as being a fluke. Hmmm.

Also, the BCS has only been in operations since '98, so not sure where you're getting 25 years from, or that 3rd win (those pesky facts getting in the way again). UL is 2-0 in BCS games (Wake and UF) but again, the Wake win was a fluke when UL was in the BE. Suddenly they're world beaters. I'm not knocking UL, they've been a very good team, it's just funny to hear the same ACC that were down talking UL years ago now talk them up now that they're in the club (question, who was the team that beat UL at Papa John's Stadium the game before they beat the toothless Gators in the Sugar Bowl?? Hint, you're trolling their message board).

 

[btstimpy]

Thanks, I vaguely remember something about more bowl money going to whomever was in the the better paying bowls. I was wrong, won't be the last time either.

What was being discussed in that regard was that the ACC would eat the unsold tickets for those bowls rather than the schools playing in them before distributing the money. Under current rules, the school playing in the Orange Bowl has to buy 17000 expensive tickets in the end zone. When their fans buy sideline tickets from Ticketmaster instead of the end zone tickets from the school, it hurts the school participating if they can't sell out the stadium. Ditto for the ACC Championship Game. Florida State doesn't want to lose money playing in the Orange Bowl and have all the rest of the ACC get a payday. So the league is looking at taking the cost of unsold tickets off the top, but they still have to keep pressure on the school to sell tickets. This is what you probably saw in the media.

 

[MSNDfan]

Yup, and two of the most vocal fan bases about that are now in the ACC (SyraPitt). Some credit to Cuse as they did have a faction of fans that had zero positives to say about the BE from '04, but Pitt was all in...balls deep. Sit tight, let's give it a 7-10 years.

As for your school MSNDfan, it's a matter of 3-4 years before animosity begins surfacing and 7 or so years before it's thru the roof. Personally, I have no quips w/ how ND operates. They've been up front all along about what they are doing. Let's not get it twisted though, when the Irish start bumping southern schools down on the bowl selection ladder, our southern friends will figuratively lose their .

Animosity for what? We get 0 money from the football part of the ACC TV deals. We play 5 ACC teams per year in football. We play every team in the ACC home and away over a 6 year period. We have to go to Duke and Wake Forest just like we have to go to Miami and Florida State. Even Florida State will get a boost in ticket sales when we are on the schedule.

Bowls are going to mean less starting this fall with a 4 team playoff. If FSU is in a playoff and Miami in the Orange, nobody with power or sense is going to care that ND goes to the Sun Bowl ahead of Georgia Tech.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I do want to see the ACC offer UConn. I quite frankly don't know what they are waiting on. .

BIG adds Uconn. ACC swoops in a grabs Penn State. ( they're not completely happy in the Big, from reports ) All this stuff will eventually work itself out. If Uconn wins in football in the AAC, they'll get their invite to either the ACC or the Big, imo.

 

[btstimpy]

ESPN isn't going to give the ACC any more money for expanding. The Big East no longer exists, the grant of rights has been signed - there's no leverage left.

Adding UConn now would actually cost ESPN money as their AAC inventory would become profoundly unappealing.

You are correct. ESPN will not give the ACC enough money to add one more team. But the contract has a "look in" in 2017 as well as a clause to reopen if membership changes by 2 or more teams. In 2014 nothing will happen. In 2017, who knows.

 

[btstimpy]

BIG adds Uconn. ACC swoops in a grabs Penn State. ( they're not completely happy in the Big, from reports ) All this stuff will eventually work itself out. If Uconn wins in football in the AAC, they'll get their invite to either the ACC or the Big, imo.

It will work out. I don't think Penn State is going anywhere. They aren't all that happy in the Big Ten, but they aren't unhappy enough to leave or make a change.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Animosity for what? We get 0 money from the football part of the ACC TV deals. We play 5 ACC teams per year in football. We play every team in the ACC home and away over a 6 year period. .

Having ND in the ACC for 5 ACC games each year, is better than having Rutgers, Maryland.... and way better than ND looking toward the BIG for such 5 game, 6 year committments. With ND, I file this under the recommended wisom of " keep your friends close and your enemies closer ".

 

[MSNDfan]

It's laughable to hear ACC fans talk about UL's success in BCS games now, when years ago they were talking down the BE's results in the same games as being a fluke. Hmmm.

Also, the BCS has only been in operations since '98, so not sure where you're getting 25 years from, or that 3rd win (those pesky facts getting in the way again). UL is 2-0 in BCS games (Wake and UF) but again, the Wake win was a fluke when UL was in the BE. Suddenly they're world beaters. I'm not knocking UL, they've been a very good team, it's just funny to hear the same ACC that were down talking UL years ago now talk them up now that they're in the club (question, who was the team that beat UL at Papa John's Stadium the game before they beat the toothless Gators in the Sugar Bowl?? Hint, you're trolling their message board).

Louisville won the Fiesta Bowl when Howard Schnellenberger was coach. I think most fans know what is meant today when you use BCS bowl - you mean major bowl, one of the big ones. Louisville has won 3 of them. And not back in the 1920s to the 1950s when the BUG was self-professedly the best football in the land.

You would know better than I do how much down talking of Louisville was done by ACC fans, but I wasn't down talking Louisville when it won the Fiesta or the Orange. Perhaps it is a soft spot for the hometown of Paul Hornung, but I like the Cards. And I know good football teams when I see them. Bobby Petrino had a couple of teams his first stop in Louisville that could have beaten us by 30.

Here is my prediction about Louisville football. It will help ACC football more than Maryland football will help BUG football, and it will also have larger attendance than Maryland.

 

[btstimpy]

Yup, and two of the most vocal fan bases about that are now in the ACC (SyraPitt). Some credit to Cuse as they did have a faction of fans that had zero positives to say about the BE from '04, but Pitt was all in...balls deep. Sit tight, let's give it a 7-10 years.

As for your school MSNDfan, it's a matter of 3-4 years before animosity begins surfacing and 7 or so years before it's thru the roof. Personally, I have no quips w/ how ND operates. They've been up front all along about what they are doing. Let's not get it twisted though, when the Irish start bumping southern schools down on the bowl selection ladder, our southern friends will figuratively lose their .

Most of the ACC is used to the bowl pecking order thing. Notre Dame will have to follow the same rules as everyone else regarding record. A 6-6 Notre Dame team can't bump any 8-4 team. It could bump a 7-5 team though. But the positive is that the presence of Notre Dame has added bowl access to better bowls.

 

[B1GALUM]

You will see no articles about the ACC making mistakes like you just read about the Big Ten making a mistake by taking Rutgers over UConn or last year's articles about the Big XII making a mistake taking West Virginia over Louisville.

This may be true; however, we have not seen an article either that indicates the B1G rejected UConn whereas such an article does exist detailing the rejection of UConn by the ACC with direct quotes from an AD.
http://boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=3

The implication of your posts is that the ACC does not make mistakes while at the same time speaking in favor of UConn joining the ACC. UConn could have joined the ACC. Twice. The ACC rejected UConn. Twice.

Was the rejection of UConn in favor of Pitt a mistake? Was the rejection of UConn in favor of Louisville a mistake? or did the ACC do the right thing by the conference to take Pitt and Louisville while rejecting UConn?

 

[upstater]

It doesn't. It lines the pockets of graduate research professors and it creates new ones because the graduate students slave for the professors and do all of their work to get the label PhD after slaving for 5-6 years. And the professors tin cup all over creation for grant money. If they get good at getting it, they get tenure. Then they can really suck as professors, and they can't be fired. Academics to me is teaching and learning. I've lived in graduate departments at Georgia Tech. I know how it operates, and it is not academics. No. And all of this does exactly zero for any student athlete and shouldn't even be discussed or thought about regarding athletic conferences.

I'm never going to engage you on academics again. Without research, there is nothing to teach.

 

[upstater]

Sure. Whatever reason that you...yourself... believe that the ACC ( and for that matter the BIG ) has not extended an invite to UConn is of course always open to discussion to determine if it makes perfect sense...or not quite so sensible as a plausable reason or reasons.... or just seemingly nonsensical altogther. Thats what discussions on things are for, imo.

UConn blows away the schools the ACC added in WINNING, in MARKET, does adequately in ACADEMICS. The ex-BE schools want to see UConn's programs die. BC especially. And that's why this is happening.

 

[upstater]

BIG adds Uconn. ACC swoops in a grabs Penn State. ( they're not completely happy in the Big, from reports ) All this stuff will eventually work itself out. If Uconn wins in football in the AAC, they'll get their invite to either the ACC or the Big, imo.

PSU is going to self elect to make $20m less a year. Crazy man.

 

[Ldandy]

BIG adds Uconn. ACC swoops in a grabs Penn State. ( they're not completely happy in the Big, from reports ) All this stuff will eventually work itself out. If Uconn wins in football in the AAC, they'll get their invite to either the ACC or the Big, imo.

Bwahahahahaha!

 

[Pat125]

I'm never going to engage you on academics again. Without research, there is nothing to teach.

My grad school experience was quite good. And I went to some crappy AAU school. Go figure.

 

[SAMCRO]

Most of the ACC is used to the bowl pecking order thing. Notre Dame will have to follow the same rules as everyone else regarding record. A 6-6 Notre Dame team can't bump any 8-4 team. It could bump a 7-5 team though. But the positive is that the presence of Notre Dame has added bowl access to better bowls.

It sounds all so familiar bstimpy. All these same things were quoted back in '05 by BE fans. Seriously, you're invoking the spirits of SU, Pitt, WVU, RU, and UConn posters circa 2005.

 

[SAMCRO]

Animosity for what? We get 0 money from the football part of the ACC TV deals. We play 5 ACC teams per year in football. We play every team in the ACC home and away over a 6 year period. We have to go to Duke and Wake Forest just like we have to go to Miami and Florida State. Even Florida State will get a boost in ticket sales when we are on the schedule.

Bowls are going to mean less starting this fall with a 4 team playoff. If FSU is in a playoff and Miami in the Orange, nobody with power or sense is going to care that ND goes to the Sun Bowl ahead of Georgia Tech.

So you're telling me the BE schools had no animosity towards ND over the past 10 years? Honestly? As for bowls meaning less, I believe they'll mean the same as years past to everyone save the 4 (last year 2) schools not playing for the NC.

 

[SAMCRO]

Louisville won the Fiesta Bowl when Howard Schnellenberger was coach. I think most fans know what is meant today when you use BCS bowl - you mean major bowl, one of the big ones. Louisville has won 3 of them. And not back in the 1920s to the 1950s when the BUG was self-professedly the best football in the land.

You would know better than I do how much down talking of Louisville was done by ACC fans, but I wasn't down talking Louisville when it won the Fiesta or the Orange. Perhaps it is a soft spot for the hometown of Paul Hornung, but I like the Cards. And I know good football teams when I see them. Bobby Petrino had a couple of teams his first stop in Louisville that could have beaten us by 30.

Here is my prediction about Louisville football. It will help ACC football more than Maryland football will help BUG football, and it will also have larger attendance than Maryland.

Well if we're going beyond BCS era, why stop with UL winning in '91. Cuse won it in '93 and Pitt won it in '79. Shoot, the ACC owns the Fiesta Bowl. Still wasn't a BCS game. And I'm not knocking UL's accomplishments either, they've done great for themselves in athletics and are probably in the top 2 of ACC FB teams right now behind FSU, but there is no need to pad your point by 'finessing' your argument with sketchy non-facts. We both agree UL is a good football program.

 

[NickyNewark]

But the ACC puts ND in both the Northeast (as I define it, a Western Pa. guy) and the Southeast (where ND has emphasized it wants to be for exposure and recruiting purposes).

The Big Ten does not put ND in Boston, Atlanta or Miami. The ACC affiliation in football (and playing basketball, baseball and other sports there regularly) does.

Jack Swarbrick is on record as saying that ND wants exposure/games in a number of metro areas in the Northeast and Southeast.

ND can get into NYC and Washington by playing "neutral site" and Shamrock Series games in the former and Navy (and Shamrock Series' "home away from home" games)in the latter.

ND obviously covers the Midwest with six home games in South Bend per year.

Look at ND's future schedules I posted in this thread. ND wants to play in pro stadiums and/or big exposure venues in the Northeast.

BC and ND are going to play in Fenway Park. ND is going to play Army in Yankee Stadium and Syracuse at Met Life. ND will play Temple at Lincoln Field, etc...

ND will play Pitt at Heinz Field as an ACC opponent. ND will play Navy (and others) in Fed Ex Field in Washington, DC. I bet we see ND games at Gillette in the future.

ND's recruiting is being more concentrated in the Virginia Tidewater, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida.

QB Everett Golson is from South Carolina. Possible first round picks Stephon Tuitt and Louis Nix are both from Georgia. Both stud running backs on the current roster (Greg Bryant and Tarean Folston) are from Florida. Look at the current roster and see the players from ACC territory. ND wants more recruits from the Southeast.

The Irish want the exposure of playing fairly regularly in the Southeast to counter the negative recruiting of "ND is so far away, your parents will never see you play in person" that ND gets from Georgia, Alabama, Florida, etc..

The Big Ten is of absolutely no help in this area. ND's leaders are concerned about being pigeon holed as a Midwest program in a mainly Midwest conference. That is one reason (of many) why the Big Ten holds absolutely no appeal to ND.

With the Northeast, Midwest and Southeast covered, ND then covers the Southwest with games against Texas, Oklahoma and Arizona State (as well as Shamrock Series "home" games at Jerry Jones' palace in Dallas and in the Alamodome in San Antonio) and the West with games against BYU, Southern Cal and Stanford.

ND wants to play football games in all areas of the country. The ACC helps with that where the Big Ten does not and cannot. ND has no interest in regular games against schools like Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota or Wisconsin (check the last time ND played any of them),

The teams u mention and many other similar institutions they refuse to play except on there terms is one of the very reasons so many root against them....I grew up in a IC home where ND was idealized but even many of Irish heritage are learning to hold their nose at them for there arrogant stubborness(Italians and Slav's too)!

 

[NotreDameJoe]

They have everything to do with academics. As I questioned in another thread, why do schools participate in big time athletics? Most run off of a deficit and it's against most of the mission statements of these schools. If it was just about student life, why couldn't they just go to the D3 model and spend much less money in the process?
Why, then, do schools participate when most university presidents could care less what happens in sports? Advertising their schools to a broader range of Gen Ed students. Academics.

Don't believe stats about how most D1 football teams lose money. Sports keeps the alumni in touch with their alma mater which leads to Tshirt sales and donations. Presidents know damn well what the alumni care about. Their lip service about distracting from academics is just to maintain their bowtie credibility.

 

[NickyNewark]

So you're telling me the BE schools had no animosity towards ND over the past 10 years? Honestly? As for bowls meaning less, I believe they'll mean the same as years past to everyone save the 4 (last year 2) schools not playing for the NC.

Bowls are still going to be VERY popular despite a 4 team playoff except to the 4 teams participating....I enjoy watching the rare OOC bowl match up's more than a couple of quasi-pro type factories of whom maybe pay for play cheating type questionable programs!

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Please remind me again as to the great accomplishments of Syracuse and Pitt, throw in BC for that matter. I don't think there is a lot of difference among all schools listed in your post. Re: ND? ND does what's best for ND. They bring precious little to the ACC's olympic sports and play football on their terms. No other P-5 conference was willing to let them do that.

The former Big12 commish was vocal in his recruitment of ND as a non-football member. That's what moved Swofford to change, as he previously had said "all or nothing" in re: Notre Dame.

 

[TerryD]

The teams u mention and many other similar institutions they refuse to play except on there terms is one of the very reasons so many root against them....I grew up in a IC home where ND was idealized but even many of Irish heritage are learning to hold their nose at them for there arrogant stubborness(Italians and Slav's too)!

The Shamrock Series games are ND HOME GAMES moved from South Bend to San Antonio, Dallas, Chicago, New York, etc...

It is nobody's business but ND's. Those are ND home games. They were always away games for the opponent.

Navy WANTS to play its home games versus ND at Fed Ex. They control the ticket sales. More money than at its 30,000 on campus stadium. The ND and Army games make up most of Navy's athletic budget.

Army WANTS to play ND at Yankee Stadium. More exposure. Syracuse's AD is the one who pushed for the Cuse/ND games to be at Met Life Stadium.

ND is not putting a shotgun to anyone's head to play at these venues. Rutgers and UConn turned ND down for games at Met Life and Gillette Stadium.

It was understood why. No hard feelings. Next team up.

 

[NickyNewark]

How's Swofford's ACC Network coming along? Delaney and the BTN are printing money..... printing it in big friggin stacks. If that's running a league into the ground, sign me up.

Stimp, you are giving me flashbacks to when the OBE got raided the first time and lost VT, UM, and BC (this was when the ACC company line was "like minded academic institutions"). BE then added USF, UC, AND UL and all the BE message boards were squawking about how the BE would be better off, had brought in better on the field schools, BE had ND for Olympic sports, etc, etc.... BE fans were wrong then, and you're... well, let's all check back in about 7-10 years and see where things stand. My gut tells me between now and then there will be a lot of ACC animosity towards ND and people will be scratching their heads over the UL selection.

Right Samcro ask stimpy why in comparison to the B1G the ACC's stadiums appear empty? Maybe no one cares?Remember most of the ACC schools play second fiddle to SEC in there own footprint!!