Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[MSNDfan]

From BE days, I have had respect for UConn fans. I may not have liked Calhoun, but I respected Huskies fans and what Calhoun accomplished. I also respected what Edsall did at a place few thought could ever win a bowl, any bowl.

From the selfish view, UConn in the ACC can be very good for ND. Same on your side. There is no football team you can play in Yankee Stadium that will have the impact of playing ND. And other than Syracuse or Duke and maybe North Carolina, there is no basketball team you can play in MSG that can have the impact of playing ND.

So why did the ACC take Louisville first? Immediate impact of football. It is that simple. Louisville has a brand new on campus 55,000 seat stadium. That and having won 3 different BCS bowls over the decades with 3 different coaches, including two within a decade, all but did the trick. Then there is football recruiting. UConn brings nobody a football recruiting hotbed. KY high school football is nothing compared to even AL but its much better than any New England state or NY. And KY borders OH, which is not even GA in football recruiting, and may no longer be better than NC, but still OH produces a lot of talent, which now is in the ACC's backyard.


Football does drive the bus. And UConn came up short in that to Louisville. It wasn't BC keeping UConn out - BC will never have that power. It wasn't Florida State and Clemson being unreasonably biased against UConn. It was looking at those football issues and agreeing they took precedence.

But what the ACC needed to replace hapless Maryland (South Rutgers, we can call it, in terms of finances and football support) is not the same thing the ACC wants and most needs for number 16.

Long term, the best thing for UConn is to be in the ACC. And the best thing for the ACC is to have UConn.

 

[ZooCougar]

I hate the ACC. Hoenstly, I am so unenthused about that conference. The B1G is a far more stable and superior situation.

 

[SixRings]

I hate the ACC. Hoenstly, I am so unenthused about that conference. The B1G is a far more stable and superior situation.

Couldn't agree more. I do not like to even think about UConn being in the ACC - I don't think I would any of the games due to my dislike of how we have been treated by the ACC and their members. That said, I hope Herbst is flirting with the ACC like crazy right now to perpetuate a Big Ten bid. It's time we be choosey because we deserve it and the Big Ten is more in line with our academics rather than schools like Louisville.

 

[FDNY99]

From BE days, I have had respect for UConn fans. I may not have liked Calhoun, but I respected Huskies fans and what Calhoun accomplished. I also respected what Edsall did at a place few thought could ever win a bowl, any bowl.

From the selfish view, UConn in the ACC can be very good for ND. Same on your side. There is no football team you can play in Yankee Stadium that will have the impact of playing ND. And other than Syracuse or Duke and maybe North Carolina, there is no basketball team you can play in MSG that can have the impact of playing ND.

So why did the ACC take Louisville first? Immediate impact of football. It is that simple. Louisville has a brand new on campus 55,000 seat stadium. That and having won 3 different BCS bowls over the decades with 3 different coaches, including two within a decade, all but did the trick. Then there is football recruiting. UConn brings nobody a football recruiting hotbed. KY high school football is nothing compared to even AL but its much better than any New England state or NY. And KY borders OH, which is not even GA in football recruiting, and may no longer be better than NC, but still OH produces a lot of talent, which now is in the ACC's backyard.


Football does drive the bus. And UConn came up short in that to Louisville. It wasn't BC keeping UConn out - BC will never have that power. It wasn't Florida State and Clemson being unreasonably biased against UConn. It was looking at those football issues and agreeing they took precedence.

But what the ACC needed to replace hapless Maryland (South Rutgers, we can call it, in terms of finances and football support) is not the same thing the ACC wants and most needs for number 16.

Long term, the best thing for UConn is to be in the ACC. And the best thing for the ACC is to have UConn.

Your argument here is good until you bring up the BC point. It was BC who kept us out and put Pitt in. If we get in with Syracuse...Pitt gets in next...or gets scooped up by the BXII as a natural rival for WVU. BC (Flipper, and Fr Leahy) really put a monkey wrench into CR when they blackballed UCONN.

 

[UConnJim]

I hate the ACC. Hoenstly, I am so unenthused about that conference. The B1G is a far more stable and superior situation.

Over the long run, the Big 10 is a much more stable conference than the ACC. The Big 10 is made up primarily of state flagship universities. The ACC is made up of everything from state flagship universities, religious schools, private schools, second fiddle state universities, and a hybrid member. That is not a recipe for long stability! Eventually, the goals and ambitions of the schools in the ACC will diverge, similar to what happened to the Big East.

 

[Adios]

At least we are gaining the power to pick which conference we want to go to.

 

[Durks07]

From BE days, I have had respect for UConn fans. I may not have liked Calhoun, but I respected Huskies fans and what Calhoun accomplished. I also respected what Edsall did at a place few thought could ever win a bowl, any bowl.

From the selfish view, UConn in the ACC can be very good for ND. Same on your side. There is no football team you can play in Yankee Stadium that will have the impact of playing ND. And other than Syracuse or Duke and maybe North Carolina, there is no basketball team you can play in MSG that can have the impact of playing ND.

So why did the ACC take Louisville first? Immediate impact of football. It is that simple. Louisville has a brand new on campus 55,000 seat stadium. That and having won 3 different BCS bowls over the decades with 3 different coaches, including two within a decade, all but did the trick. Then there is football recruiting. UConn brings nobody a football recruiting hotbed. KY high school football is nothing compared to even AL but its much better than any New England state or NY. And KY borders OH, which is not even GA in football recruiting, and may no longer be better than NC, but still OH produces a lot of talent, which now is in the ACC's backyard.


Football does drive the bus. And UConn came up short in that to Louisville. It wasn't BC keeping UConn out - BC will never have that power. It wasn't Florida State and Clemson being unreasonably biased against UConn. It was looking at those football issues and agreeing they took precedence.

But what the ACC needed to replace hapless Maryland (South Rutgers, we can call it, in terms of finances and football support) is not the same thing the ACC wants and most needs for number 16.

Long term, the best thing for UConn is to be in the ACC. And the best thing for the ACC is to have UConn.

You seem like a rational enough of a poster, so I'll bite. First: Welcome to the BY. Be prepared to duck. ND fans take heat here just like everywhere else. Just a fair warning.

I agree generally with your presentation of the Louisville rationale. From a football perspective, at the time it made sense for them to make that choice to bolster that side of the ball. We (the UConn partisans) have some disagreements with that decision. For instance, while CT is not a recruiting hotbed, it does tend to get overlooked. UF has done nicely (on the field anyway...) with its CT recruits. CT does not provide enough D1 talent to be a boon for the other members, but there are quality football players here. That said, yes, even a state such as KY does produce more talent.

B.C. does not have the power to block UConn by itself. However, the other member schools will not try and ram a school down each other's throats if there is a viable alternative. In 2011, this is how Pitt got the nod to move with Syracuse instead of UConn (who was originally slated). While not dispositive, it does lend support to the idea that one school can seriously hinder the process for another. B.C. headed the anti-UConn push each time, but unfortunately for us, there has been another option for them to take.

 

[MSNDfan]

Couldn't agree more. I do not like to even think about UConn being in the ACC - I don't think I would any of the games due to my dislike of how we have been treated by the ACC and their members. That said, I hope Herbst is flirting with the ACC like crazy right now to perpetuate a Big Ten bid. It's time we be choosey because we deserve it and the Big Ten is more in line with our academics rather than schools like Louisville.

That's garbage and anybody with sense knows it. In the ACC, your basketball with Syracuse would burn brighter than ever. Your games with Duke and North Carolina would quickly become almost as hot. Your games with us would intensify.

And then there is BC in all sports. The only New England rivalry would get red hot. It would matter down in your bones.

 

[itgoeslike]

The minute we join the ACC Notre Dame will announce they are joining the Big Ten. . .

While the ACC would be my second choice provided they stay intact, the Big Ten conference better embodies UConn's long term objectives, which go beyond athletics.

 

[MSNDfan]

You seem like a rational enough of a poster, so I'll bite. First: Welcome to the BY. Be prepared to duck. ND fans take heat here just like everywhere else. Just a fair warning.

I agree generally with your presentation of the Louisville rationale. From a football perspective, at the time it made sense for them to make that choice to bolster that side of the ball. We (the UConn partisans) have some disagreements with that decision. For instance, while CT is not a recruiting hotbed, it does tend to get overlooked. UF has done nicely (on the field anyway...) with its CT recruits. CT does not provide enough D1 talent to be a boon for the other members, but there are quality football players here. That said, yes, even a state such as KY does produce more talent.

B.C. does not have the power to block UConn by itself. However, the other member schools will not try and ram a school down each other's throats if there is a viable alternative. In 2011, this is how Pitt got the nod to move with Syracuse instead of UConn (who was originally slated). While not dispositive, it does lend support to the idea that one school can seriously hinder the process for another. B.C. headed the anti-UConn push each time, but unfortunately for us, there has been another option for them to take.

ND fans take heat everywhere. ND gets blamed for virtually everything. I once saw a thread about why ND was to blame for the Big 12 nearly falling apart.

I agree BC led any plan to block UConn. But if not for the other factors, BC's leadership to keep UConn out would have fallen flat.

As for Pitt - that you can blame on ND. We have a very old and important football rivalry with Pitt. The best move for the ACC to try to get us to accept partial membership in football was to add Pitt. Syracuse and UConn were probably toss ups to Swarbrick, but Pitt would have been the top choice. And because Syracuse was supposed to get in back in 2o03, the ACC would take it over UConn.

UConn simply got very unlucky twice.

 

[SellersElbow]

Having to listen to McGraw whine about UConn once this year was enough. Let's not get back to situation where we have to hear all that throughout a conference season.

 

[MSNDfan]

The minute we join the ACC Notre Dame will announce they are joining the Big Ten. . .
.

I hope you are kidding. ND has history with the BUG that goes back to before WWI, history in which the BUG has done a great deal to try to harm ND. We do not not trust the BUG, at all.

 

[kibblesnbits]

From BE days, I have had respect for UConn fans. I may not have liked Calhoun, but I respected Huskies fans and what Calhoun accomplished. I also respected what Edsall did at a place few thought could ever win a bowl, any bowl.

From the selfish view, UConn in the ACC can be very good for ND. Same on your side. There is no football team you can play in Yankee Stadium that will have the impact of playing ND. And other than Syracuse or Duke and maybe North Carolina, there is no basketball team you can play in MSG that can have the impact of playing ND.

So why did the ACC take Louisville first? Immediate impact of football. It is that simple. Louisville has a brand new on campus 55,000 seat stadium. That and having won 3 different BCS bowls over the decades with 3 different coaches, including two within a decade, all but did the trick. Then there is football recruiting. UConn brings nobody a football recruiting hotbed. KY high school football is nothing compared to even AL but its much better than any New England state or NY. And KY borders OH, which is not even GA in football recruiting, and may no longer be better than NC, but still OH produces a lot of talent, which now is in the ACC's backyard.


Football does drive the bus. And UConn came up short in that to Louisville. It wasn't BC keeping UConn out - BC will never have that power. It wasn't Florida State and Clemson being unreasonably biased against UConn. It was looking at those football issues and agreeing they took precedence.

But what the ACC needed to replace hapless Maryland (South Rutgers, we can call it, in terms of finances and football support) is not the same thing the ACC wants and most needs for number 16.

Long term, the best thing for UConn is to be in the ACC. And the best thing for the ACC is to have UConn.

The ACC has repeatedly told UConn that it doesn't belong. I'm not sure why you feel the need to come to a UConn board and tell us why it does. When the people that run your league agree with you then it might be time to convince UConn fans. Until then, what is the value of telling a bunch of fans that have been kicked in the onions by your league that they should want to be in it?

 

[StevieDude]

Well there is no way to join the ACC now anyways. There has to be even football divisions in football so right now it's 14. If only there was a school who can join right now to be 15 and then maybe we could be 16.

 

[MSNDfan]

The ACC has repeatedly told UConn that it doesn't belong. I'm not sure why you feel the need to come to a UConn board and tell us why it does. When the people that run your league agree with you then it might be time to convince UConn fans. Until then, what is the value of telling a bunch of fans that have been kicked in the onions by your league that they should want to be in it?

No, the ACC has not told UConn repeatedly it does not belong in the ACC. The issue is timing. If UConn had moved up in football in 1991, it would have been well positioned to join the ACC in 2003. The late arrival to football is the reason UConn was not at the top of the list.

For example, I learned only recently that Syracuse's former AD Jake Crouthamel told the BE in 1991 that if it did not create BE football that Syracuse would probably leave, and he talked to the ACC back then. Pitt also might have held tentative talks with the ACC before BE football started.

UConn just came to the game at least 10 years late.

 

[MSNDfan]

Well there is no way to join the ACC now anyways. There have to be even football divisions in football so right now it's 14. If only there was a school who can join right now to be 15 and then maybe we could be 16.

First, I am not going to ever again say ND will never join a conference. I heard that line about basketball in the 1980s. I also said it repeatedly about football, and here we are with half membership in ACC football. The changes in ND's status in both cases came because the landscape changed. It is possible that the playoffs will mean the landscape changes just enough again so we go full member in ACC football.

But even if we don't, if the NCAA changes its rules about divisions, the ACC can add a 16th member that is 15th for football.

 

[StevieDude]

Who mentioned ND?

 

[kibblesnbits]

No, the ACC has not told UConn repeatedly it does not belong in the ACC. The issue is timing. If UConn had moved up in football in 1991, it would have been well positioned to join the ACC in 2003. The late arrival to football is the reason UConn was not at the top of the list.

For example, I learned only recently that Syracuse's former AD Jake Crouthamel told the BE in 1991 that if it did not create BE football that Syracuse would probably leave, and he talked to the ACC back then. Pitt also might have held tentative talks with the ACC before BE football started.

UConn just came to the game at least 10 years late.

The ACC, for whatever reason, has repeatedly found other schools more attractive and wiped out most of the Huskies' rivalries in the process while greatly damaging the school competitively and economically. Saying, "if the situation was different or you were just something else you would have been admitted" is completely useless drivel. UConn is what it is and the ACC has said that they weren't interested in what UConn does offer. That's the simple truth and until the ACC sees the value of what UConn brings to the table it's a complete waste of time trying to sell UConn fans on something they cannot have.

 

[MSNDfan]

Who mentioned ND?

I think you are missing the point. The ACC does not have to add somebody else with UConn. First, until we see how the playoffs alter the landscape, we cannot know if ND will feel the need to go from half football member to full member. More and more, I think we will make that move eventually. The playoffs are going to take total control, and the Power conferences are going to control the playoffs.

Second, the ACC proposal that the NCAA change its rules regarding divisions means that if passed, the new rules would allow a conference to have an odd number of teams and no divisional round robin in football. So UConn could be the 15th in football with no 16th.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I hope you are kidding. ND has history with the BUG that goes back to before WWI, history in which the BUG has done a great deal to try to harm ND. We do not not trust the BUG, at all.

Every ND fan should be required to add this to their sig. It really helps in understanding where they are coming from.

 

[StevieDude]

All I know is right now at this time UConn can't be invited to ACC without another football team. Right?

 

[MSNDfan]

The ACC, for whatever reason, has repeatedly found other schools more attractive and wiped out most of the Huskies' rivalries in the process while greatly damaging the school competitively and economically. Saying, "if you were just something else you would have been admitted" is completely useless drivel. UConn is what it is and the ACC has said that they weren't interested in what UConn does offer. That's the simple truth and until the ACC sees the value of what UConn brings to the table it's a complete waste of time trying to sell UConn fans on the value of something they cannot have.

Who says UConn cannot have the ACC?

You seem to think that UConn's very late arrival to the party of D1 football did not mean major obstacles. That late starting point for the sport that drives the bus of all conference realignment means that once UConn was looking, it was in a line that had formed when it was playing 1AA football. Even Louisville was D1 back when Johnny U played for the Cards.

UConn started too late to be near the top of the list anytime before maybe 4 years ago. And the 3 ACC additions in that time all make sense, in the order they were taken, considering football as the number 1 factor. Syracuse and Pitt both have a Heisman winner and multiple Hall of Famers. Louisville has Johnny U and 2 BCS bowl wins over the past decade. UConn football moved up far too late in the game to better any of those.

 

[MSNDfan]

All I know is right now at this time UConn can't be invited to ACC without another football team. Right?

You can have as many teams as you want, but the current NCAA rules require divisional round robin play. So an odd number of teams means the schedules are unequal.

So no power conference is going to risk it.

Why do you think the ACC has drafted the proposal? Well, it could be so that its 2 teams with the best records can meet in the championship game regardless of division. But it also can mean that the ACC is moving to add another school and wants to have 15 football members without getting the schedules messed up.

And if the ACC is ready to add a 16th, a 15th in football, it is not going to want Temple or Buffalo or WVU or USF or UCF.

 

[kibblesnbits]

And if the ACC is ready to add a 16th, a 15th in football, it is not going to want Temple or Buffalo or WVU or USF or UCF.

I don't know. Pop Warner once coached at Temple ......

 

[Carl Spackler]

Ok. Notre Dame - you go first. You join the ACC first.