Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[Yawkey Way]

Yeah...I love UConn, and there is a presence here...but mostly among former CT residents or UConn alum. It's sizable enough to take over some bars when the tournament is on, but I'm not sure who Gammons is talking to. UConn doesn't really move the needle much. To be fair, neither does BC (other than hockey).

This is an accurate assessment, imo. Even BC Hockey doesn't move the needle much, imo in the Boston region. In the Boston region, College Sports is discussed on talk radio, and in the pubs, and around the office water coolers, etc only when its a college Championship Game, thus to Uconn's credit, they did get a 46 hour window of media buzz around Boston both before and after their games last week, but now neither BC, Umass, Harvard, Uconn, etc get much buzz .Its all back to page 5 stuff in the Boston papers now re. college sports. Boston has the largest sports talk radio audience in numbers in the entire country according to reports. But its almost entirely pro sports talk and buzz all the time on these radio stations and, around and about Greater Boston, and just talking to people ( I ought to know, I'm born and raised in the Boston region ). I wish it were different, but its not, and it is what it is.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Depends on the region. Both conferences are in multiple regions. Northeast + Midwest for the B1G. Southeast + Northeast for the ACC. As I said, however, the B1G clearly has the best parts of the Northeast. The ACC somehow saddled itself with a regional school around the Pitt area, CNY and the icy tundra, and a Boston team whose football team is outdrawn in the Boston area by rodeo on ESPN2 when the school plays a conference game on ESPN. Meanwhile, the B1G grabbed Maryland, New Jersey and the vast majority of Pennsylvania.

You can backstab AND decline full membership. I well understand ND does the best to remain independent. The criticism comes in when ND votes on a question of football in the BE when it has no stake in football. If ND wanted to join the Catholic 7, that would have been absolutely fine with me. Instead, it voted in a way that prevented the football schools from leaving with half the assets. That was the backstab. The schools wanted to split the assets, but the ND vote prevented it.

I don't know where exactly the Midwest starts but it's in PA east of Philly. PSU is in a rural setting in the start of the Midwest. Maryland is DC, the start of the South. NJ is NYC. So the BUG may have driven eastward to get more territories but they are all on islands, just as PSU was an island for many years. They are still the BUG's tentacles while the head will remain in Michigan/Ohio.

Yeah I know they will have another expensive office in NYC for entertaining sponsors but the power will stay with the Big 2.

If we voted in favor of breaking the Big East then all the Catholic bball schools would be lodging the same complaint about how Notre Dame kicked them out of their conference. And it wouldn't matter either, Kevin White cast a vote for what he wanted just like everyone else did. Funny how no one ever mentions 'back stabbing' by Pitt, Syr, Maryland, Boise, and TCU when all of them reneged on their contracts. Notre Dame met all her obligations to the Big East.

 

[TerryD]

Haha. I hadn't realized the "rivalry" didn't go back further. So, fair enough. But BC is not as impressive or intimidating as USC, Michigan, Michigan State...and even recently, Stanford. So while I perhaps overstated my point with "punching bag," my basic point that ND would have the advantage of having some easier games against teams that they have historic relationships with is still true.

ND is not giving up Southern Cal or Stanford. They will play them every year, just as before

ND does a lot of recruiting in California and ends each regular season on the West Coast.

ND only played Michigan regularly since 1978 (Michigan boycotted ND from 1909-42 and 1943-1978).

So, it is not much more of a traditional rivalry than BC was, numbers wise.

ND will play Purdue and Michigan State, just not every year.

Finally, what makes you think that ND would end up in a different ACC division than all of FSU, Clemson, Miami ? That would not happen.

Here are ND's future schedules:


2014 Football Schedule
A30 RICE NBC
S06 MICHIGAN 7:30pm NBC
S13 vs. Purdue (LucasOil) 7:30pm NBC
S27 @ Syracuse (Meadowlands)
O04 STANFORD
O11 NORTH CAROLINA
O18 @ Florida State
N01 @ Navy (Landover, MD)
N08 @ Arizona State
N15 NORTHWESTERN
N22 LOUISVILLE
N29 @ Southern Cal


2015 Football Schedule
S05 TEXAS
S12 @ Virginia
S19 GEORGIA TECH
S26 UMASS
O03 @ Clemson
O10 NAVY
O17 SOUTHERN CAL
O31 @ Temple (LFSF)
N07 @ Pittsburgh
N14 WAKE FOREST
N21 BOSTON COLLEGE (Fenway Pk.)
N28 @ Stanford


2016 Football Schedule
S03 @ Texas
S10 NEVADA
S17 MICHIGAN STATE
S24 DUKE
O01 @ Syracuse (Meadowlands)
O08 @ North Carolina State
O15 STANFORD
O29 MIAMI
N05 @ Navy
N12 ARMY (Alamodome)
N19 VIRGINIA TECH
N26 @ Southern Cal


2017 Football Schedule
not official

TEMPLE
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
@ Michigan State
@ Stanford
2 ACC at home
3 ACC away


2018 Football Schedule
not official

STANFORD
@ Navy
@ Southern Cal
3 ACC at home
2 ACC away


2019 Football Schedule
not official

NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
@ Texas
@ Stanford
2 ACC at home
3 ACC away


2020 Football Schedule
not official

TEXAS
STANFORD
@ Purdue
@ Navy
@ Southern Cal
3 ACC at home
2 ACC away


2021 Football Schedule
not official

PURDUE
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
@ Stanford
2 ACC at home
3 ACC away


2022 Football Schedule
not official

STANFORD
@ Navy
@ Southern Cal
3 ACC at home
2 ACC away


I think that those schedules are pretty good and without that many "punching bags". Phil Steele rates ND's 2014 schedule as the fourth toughest in the nation.


http://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2014/MAR14/DBMar15.html


I wish UConn and its fans the best. I hope UConn ends up in either the ACC or the Big Ten. It deserves a seat at the P5 table. Take care, guys.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

and Boston and NYC are metropolitan communities filled with people who have no attachment to any individual local college. Nobody dominates them anymore than about 5 schools claim to own Houston.

 

[Yawkey Way]

and Boston and NYC are metropolitan communities filled with people who have no attachment to any individual local college. Nobody dominates them anymore than about 5 schools claim to own Houston.

True, to ND's credit they have a lengthy and rich history of football too. They also benefit by being located in an immediate area with no other competition for sports buzz. I went to South Bend twice for games there ( vs. BC ). ND is truly blessed with a beautiful campus, and ALL its school's sports teams have beautiful and wonderful expansive fields. I was impressed with their facilities there ( although the stadium needs updating, imo ). But I can also see why a single family, 4 bed, 3 bath, 2400 Sq. Ft, 2 car attached garage can be had for about 250 large out there. South Bend, Ind, and its immediate environs is freakin' boring beyond belief to this coastal, eastern city, guy.

 

[Seaa Blue]

( although the stadium needs updating, imo ).

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...proves-400-million-stadium-renovation-project

 

[Yawkey Way]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...proves-400-million-stadium-renovation-project

If you've been to a lot of college football stadiums, and have been in seats, and have sat in seats at ND, then you know that ND's seating for fans is decidely " old school ", and needs to be brought up to date. My guess, you havn't sat in the stands at ND stadium, otherwise you'd know what I'm referring too. Heck, more than half the ACC schools have better seating and site lines for fans than does resource rich ND. Even comparatively smallish BC's Alumni Stadium has better seating and sight lines for fans in their stadium than ND does. But lets not take this out of context either. I said above that ND has wonderful and expansive fields for ALL their sports teams. They have the land. They have the resources, and their fields that adjoin their football stadium are top notch.... truly first rate, imo. But their seating, and sight lines, for football games at their football stadium ? Needs work, imo. But again, its just my assessment on it here too.

 

[Seaa Blue]

ND only played Michigan regularly since 1978 (Michigan boycotted ND from 1909-42 and 1943-1978).

2015-

 

[Seaa Blue]

But their seating, and sight lines, for football games at their football stadium ? Needs work, imo. But again, its just my assessment on it here too.

That's what happens when you have demand that far exceeds supply in an 84 year old stadium.

 

[Yawkey Way]

That's what happens when you have demand that far exceeds supply in an 84 year old stadium.

Sure, and I understand that. ND stadium in this respect is like Fenway Park in Boston. Fenway Park is a great place to watch a ball game, due to its history there, and the fact that a lot of fans can be much closer in their seats to the action on the field. Its a veritable shrine, and a national treasure. But after being at Fenway Park in my life more times than I can count , would I say the seats are comfortable and its sight lines great at Fenway Park ? Heck, no. Even JetBlue Stadium in Ft. Myers, FL., the Red Sox new Spring Training facility for their Spring Training Games, has far better modern, and more spacious and comfortable seating for their fans than good ol' Fenway Park does.

 

[TerryD]

Sure, and I understand that. ND stadium in this respect is like Fenway Park in Boston. Fenway Park is a great place to watch a ball game, due to its history there, and the fact that a lot of fans can be much closer in their seats to the action on the field. Its a veritable shrine, and a national treasure. But after being at Fenway Park in my life more times than I can count , would I say the seats are comfortable and its sight lines great at Fenway Park ? Heck, no.

I am all for tearing the old, narrow benches out. Will it happen? I doubt it.

Many ND alumni and fans are freaking out about today's announcement that ND Stadium is getting Field Turf in May. The "traditionalists" are still fighting against a video board.

They are still pissed that ND started using piped in music two years ago. Those are the topics discussed and fought over on ND boards, not TV contracts and conference realignment.

Many ND alumni think that Field Turf offends tradition and diminishes ND' s brand.

 

[SouthronCross]

I've always liked Tobacco Road and Virginia and know that UCONN has always had support from TR (and Virginia) at every CR meeting. If UCONN does go to the B1G and not the ACC, I would love nothing more than to partner up with any Tobacco Road school in annual basketball or football (or both) series. UNC/Duke/Virginia vs UCONN at the Garden in December before conference play begins would be fun to watch. Good tuneups for both teams after their sleepy December schedule wraps up and we're about to embark on conference play. Or agree to play our ACC vs B1G )) matchups at the Garden. F Syracuse. They can continue to schedule their annual matchups with Niagara and Conisius.

Both of our recent FB games went right down to the wire, and, I would expect nothing less if we met up down the line. Its been a while since we met in the regular season for hoops, but, it was the same thing.

I am still holding out hope that you'll eventually join us in the ACC. If it does turn out that you go to the B1G, I'd certainly like for us to play on a regular basis in whatever sports we can.

 

[SouthronCross]

I don't know if it matters who did and didn't have the vision, the fact is that the conference as a whole didn't have enough votes to share his vision and chose by some amount of majority rules to go in a different direction. It hurts being spurned and that's where we're at. It's why the ACC gets our venom and the B1G our affection. But, we're not stupid so we're going home with whoever we can when the lights click on at 2 am (or whatever your bar closing time is).

Understood.

I was just trying to make the point, albeit not very well, that the majority opinion on this board that Swofford did not have a plan for CR was just not true.

I do agree with Dooley, I have no issues with Tobacco Road outside of standard hate for Duke and any player whoever attended that institution. Chrokee Parks, seriously??? But I'd love the competition of OOC games in any sport with them. Maybe not at MSG. It depends if we're in the B1G at that point. MSG would be reserved for conference games at that point. If we're still in the AAC, then I'm OK with the Garden.

UConn vs Carolina or Duke, at either MSG, or, the Greensboro/Charlotte Coliseums, would be a huge draw, ticket wise, and, for TV.

 

[SouthronCross]

Of course, UConn would absolutely take an ACC offer if one came (and the Big 10 wasn't willing to counter). That doesn't mean it wouldn't make me happy beyond measure to see the Big 10 make a play thereby cutting off the ACC's northern tier (BC, Syracuse and Pitt) into isolated outposts that truly show how misguided their expansion moves have been.

As for Swofford having UConn (with the support of the league's old guard) in his vision only to be over-ruled by power plays from a few schools, if true that just confirms that the league's realignment "strategy" has been driven by politics and short-term considerations (i.e. panic and desperation) rather than a real plan.

Real plans get sidetracked by politics and other factors everyday. Virginia state politics sidetracked Swofford's original expansion plans in 2003. His expansion strategy involving UConn certainly did exist this time around, and, it was a long-term play. He knew that any future ACCN would need hoops and Olympic sports for content going forward. And, that you guys could provide that. In spades. That some ACC members were either unwilling, or, unable, to see that, is not his fault.

Swofford might be perceived to be the best coference commissioner in the land, but, he is not the incompetent boob many here believe him to be, either.

 

[SouthronCross]

What was/is Swofford's vision? Seriously. Can you articulate it? Cause I sure can't. His mishmash of moves doesn't appear to have emanated from a common source. He appears little more than a fireman scurrying thither and yon in a vain attempt to stamp out the blazes he himself started. Not intentionally started, mind you, just created the conditions in which they resulted BECAUSE HE HAS NO VISION. And if, as you say, he does have a vision, he's no leader. Either way, IT IS HIS FAULT!

Don't you think that his inital motive in 2003 to take Miami, Syracuse, and, BC was to begin a FL-to-NE ACC? I am no stats guy, and, from a purely fan perspective, that made sense to me. I knew enough to understand that Cuse would not give them exclusivity to NYC, but, it would give them a presence there. Same with BC in Boston. VA state politics blew that up, and, we ended up with VPI instead of SU.

Do you not believe that an add of SU-UConn in 2011 would've locked up the northeast for the ACC, including a large part of NYC, with the ACCBT eventually moving there to MSG? Again, from a simple fan's perspective, I do.

Both times, it appeared to me that his goal was an ACC that ran the length of the east coast, with schools who had Olympic sports programs that could fill a future ACCN.

Where am I wrong, in your opinion?

It might surprise you to know that I respect and admire the institutions of the ACC because I was one of you. I know which ACC school had Bear Bryant as its head coach because I went there. I would have been thrilled to be part of a true, Florida to New England, Atlantic Coast Conference. That would have been a vision! Unfortunately, just like we got stuck with Jeff Hathaway, you guys are stuck with John Swofford.

And, I still hope you will be.

See my above answer for you quote in bold.

 

[SouthronCross]

Well, havn't we been told that they defer to whatever it is that BC wants to do in cases like, and lets BC wishes prevail with these so called " southern schools " ?( again, I'm just trying to apply the reasoning oftentimes heard).

Duke is located in Raleigh. Is it a " southern school ". if so, much of its student body is from outside the South. The furthest " southern school" geogahically is Miami.. but I wouldn't call this former BE school a " southern school ", and their relationship with the northeast schools of Syracuse and BC and Pitt is better than it is with a school right within its state in the ACC... Florida State. There are lots of leagues now that seem not to make much sense. The ACC doesn't seem to me to be much different in this respect... and the AAC , surely doesn't make much sense either re. teams, schools, missions, etc

Please, do not insult Raleigh by calling it Duke's home. Its already in horrible shape because it has NC State.

When the Duke family endowed the university, one of the prerequisites was that no more than 15% of the student body could be from NC, IIRC. I am sure its quite abit lower than that, as NC's educational system leaves much to be desired.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Please, do not insult Raleigh by calling it Duke's home. Its already in horrible shape because it has NC State.

Haha.. fair point... I do realize that even though Durham is close to Raleigh, its by no means Raleigh. Its like Minneapolis- St. Paul... can't lump'em together or the locals in each will remind you they're not the same.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I consider Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and Eastern Pensylvania/Southern NJ Mid-Atlantic. The ACC did take a hit in the Mid-Atlantic by losing Maryland. That can be restored by adding Temple or Navy, but I don't think that is the direction the ACC is considering.

I didn't ask for a list of mid Atlantic states, rather the list of institutions that formed the ACC's mid Atlantic wing. Virginia as mid Atlantic is debatable.

 

[upstater]

I don't know where exactly the Midwest starts but it's in PA east of Philly. PSU is in a rural setting in the start of the Midwest. Maryland is DC, the start of the South. NJ is NYC. So the BUG may have driven eastward to get more territories but they are all on islands, just as PSU was an island for many years. They are still the BUG's tentacles while the head will remain in Michigan/Ohio.

Yeah I know they will have another expensive office in NYC for entertaining sponsors but the power will stay with the Big 2.

If we voted in favor of breaking the Big East then all the Catholic bball schools would be lodging the same complaint about how Notre Dame kicked them out of their conference. And it wouldn't matter either, Kevin White cast a vote for what he wanted just like everyone else did. Funny how no one ever mentions 'back stabbing' by Pitt, Syr, Maryland, Boise, and TCU when all of them reneged on their contracts. Notre Dame met all her obligations to the Big East.

Can;t disagree with you more on PSU as MW. Having lived there, it is rural. like Storrs. but the vast majority of kids are Eastern PA. Heck, Buffalo where I live and Pittsburgh aren't even midwest. Not even close. I've lived in the MW, and these places are very different.

I explained to you what ND did that reeked. It has nothing to do with leaving the BE.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...proves-400-million-stadium-renovation-project

aaaaahhh. Make it stop.

For those who didn't go on the 2009 trip, that is the artist's imagination of how to ruin one of the few remaining classics. It would be like bulldozing Fenway to put up a clone of Chase Field.

True, to ND's credit they have a lengthy and rich history of football too. They also benefit by being located in an immediate area with no other competition for sports buzz. I went to South Bend twice for games there ( vs. BC ). ND is truly blessed with a beautiful campus, and ALL its school's sports teams have beautiful and wonderful expansive fields. I was impressed with their facilities there ( although the stadium needs updating, imo ). But I can also see why a single family, 4 bed, 3 bath, 2400 Sq. Ft, 2 car attached garage can be had for about 250 large out there. South Bend, Ind, and its immediate environs is freakin' boring beyond belief to this coastal, eastern city, guy.

And I couldn't stand forking over $800 a month for a run down one bedroom when half that much in the Midwest will get you covered parking and a complex swimming pool. And people care about college football.

 

[upstater]

LOL no one has ever said Toronto is dying. Cleveland sure - have you been there lately?

Are you really trying to claim Detroit isn't a shell of what it was?

I don't think you comprehend the point. the point is, there are a lot of Michigan fans in Michigan. So people celebrating flags being planted in podunk towns like Louisville because of their rabid fans are ignoring the massive fanbases of the north. The Buffalo point was made to point out the amount of people that live around here. There are no popular sports in Buffalo, but like these other industrial burgs, there are a lot of people around here.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I hear you on this, but if true ,why didn't ( and havn't ) the BIG taken Uconn, when it was there for the taking when Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville were still in the BE, and available to them. Why are they not calling now ?

Because people whose plan for building Rome has it completed in 24 hours are guaranteed to fail.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Real plans get sidetracked by politics and other factors everyday. Virginia state politics sidetracked Swofford's original expansion plans in 2003. His expansion strategy involving UConn certainly did exist this time around, and, it was a long-term play. He knew that any future ACCN would need hoops and Olympic sports for content going forward. And, that you guys could provide that. In spades. That some ACC members were either unwilling, or, unable, to see that, is not his fault.

Swofford might be perceived to be the best coference commissioner in the land, but, he is not the incompetent boob many here believe him to be, either.

That's why the Big 10 focuses on state flagship universities. No single school can dominate the heavily populated northeast states, but to the extent any one will be able to attract nearly universal in-state coverage, it will be a flagship. Penn State can get BTN coverage through most of the state. Pitt would be limited to a portion of Western PA. Rutgers will ultimately get BTN throughout nearly all of NJ (by themselves NY is a pipedream), while Syracuse brings a portion of relatively rural Central NY and some alums elsewhere. MD will bring its state, while BC will struggle even to get coverage outside Rt. 128 (if that).

UConn will almost instantly bring universal coverage to the 3M people here (see SNY's use of UConn to blanket the state as proof). The question for the B1G is whether the surround and penetrate the edges strategy (the NYC market includes a good percentage of NJ and the wealthiest parts of CT) will ultimately lead to greater coverage in the remainder of the NYC market.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I don't think you comprehend the point. the point is, there are a lot of Michigan fans in Michigan. So people celebrating flags being planted in podunk towns like Louisville because of their rabid fans are ignoring the massive fanbases of the north. The Buffalo point was made to point out the amount of people that live around here. There are no popular sports in Buffalo, but like these other industrial burgs, there are a lot of people around here.

The people who remain in Michigan tend to be old and not having children. A lot of Wolfie grads moved south to start their families. The drive to the east by the buggers was not just for money, it was for survival.

And on that note TerryD pointed out that ND also can't rely on Ohio to supply the core of our rosters anymore. We always barn stormed but now are doubling down.

 

[upstater]

The people who remain in Michigan tend to be old and not having children. A lot of Wolfie grads moved south to start their families. The drive to the east by the buggers was not just for money, it was for survival.

And on that note TerryD pointed out that ND also can't rely on Ohio to supply the core of our rosters anymore. We always barn stormed but now are doubling down.

And yet pop rates are up. Not like the south, but the south has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[whaler11]

I don't think you comprehend the point. the point is, there are a lot of Michigan fans in Michigan. So people celebrating flags being planted in podunk towns like Louisville because of their rabid fans are ignoring the massive fanbases of the north. The Buffalo point was made to point out the amount of people that live around here. There are no popular sports in Buffalo, but like these other industrial burgs, there are a lot of people around here.

It's just par for the upstater course. Buffalo is thriving because it's 90 minutes from Toronto is a great example.

Louisville has a ridiculously good fanbase. I know you'll argue against that for eternity - but they do and it doesn't reflect poorly on UConn to just admit it.

 

[dayooper]

My thoughts on this thread after being away for a day and half:

- Holy crap!

- Louisville was the one of two possible replacements for Maryland and if the rumors (FSU and Clemson were leaving if football wasn't addressed) are true, it held The ACC together. IF that's the case, it was the only possible add. I have no clue if it's what went down, but completely understand The ACC's reasoning if it was.

- No matter the reason, the Louisville add was a black eye for The ACC reputation. Either they went back on their principle of academic schools (UConn is a better school than Louisville) or they lied to WVU. Not a big deal, but they did backtrack in someway.

- Swofford is not a bumbling fool, but made a HUGE mistake when he signed over The ACC's entire tv package to ESPN and Raycom for what amounts to a tier 1/2 money. I understand that while the traditional powers like UNC/FSU/UVA/Clemson will be fine, the bottom end will struggle. I actually think he is doing very well for the hand he has (and is partially responsible for). I believe that the addition of Miami, BC, Pitt, and 'Cuse were all done trying to get ND in the fold. Trying to get as many schools like ND (private, great academic schools in areas where many ND students come from) to lure The Irish into ACC membership was the plan. From what I have gathered, 'Cuse was supposed to be in when BC and Miami were invited, but The Virginia government pressured UVA to push for VT's invite instead. That tells me that The ACC was trying (or planning on trying) to lure ND for a very long time. When it looked like ND was staying independent in 2012, they made deal. Miami was a no brainer at the time, and 'Cuse appeased the BB schools too.

- In my opinion, the real reason The ND administration does't want the Big10 is they need to be a presence where they want and get their students from: The NE/NYC metro areas. Sure there is animosity toward The Big10 on the ND fans and alumni part, but I highly doubt that if being in The Big10 was best for ND, those events would prevent The ND administration from doing what is best for the school. They already have a presence in the biggest city in The Midwest (Chicago), but playing games in NY state, Boston, Pennsylvania (Pitt games are broadcast in the Philly area, I presume) and playing against teams that have a large NE/NYC alumni presence (Miami, Duke) is huge getting their brand out to prospective students.

- UMD is not deadbeat, but wasn't smart in saying they were going to fight it. Every school fights the exit fees. Only WVU payed the actual amount because they felt they were going to be left behind if they didn't join the B12 on the B12's terms. Of course they aren't paying, would you if you were in a lawsuit about an amount you didn't agree with? Any lawyer would say no.

- The addition of UMD and Rutgers most definitely wasn't a very good move on a performance basis, but it was a brilliant move in the conference realignment endgame. By taking UMD and Rutgers, it opened up the NYC area to further movement. Along with PSU, it made a bridge to NYC, allowed for further expansion if/when Rutgers wasn't enough without putting candidates out on an island. It partnered The BTN with the YES network in the NYC area. It also put 'Cuse, BC, and Pitt a long was away both distance and culturally speaking from their nearest member (UVA and VT). Being contingent with the traditional Big10 schools leaves so many possibilities open.

- I don't have an issue with ND not playing Michigan. Even though I have always enjoyed rivalry, I understand situations change. The only issue I have is telling Michigan on the day of a huge game at the last minute possible so they could have the last one at ND this year.

- And, for what this thread is about, I think UConn best fits in the Big 10 as it's fits best institutionally. The Big10 is a great BB conference (better than The ACC the past few years, imo). They fit the mold of a Big10 school, academically. I believe that the combo of PSU, Rutgers, and UConn would solidify the Philly/Jersey/NYC area as best as it could be (the only help would be either ND or if St. John's/NYU had a football team). By doing that, along with the basketball aspect, would be a boon for UConn both athletically and financially.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Don't you think that his inital motive in 2003 to take Miami, Syracuse, and, BC was to begin a FL-to-NE ACC? I am no stats guy, and, from a purely fan perspective, that made sense to me. I knew enough to understand that Cuse would not give them exclusivity to NYC, but, it would give them a presence there. Same with BC in Boston. VA state politics blew that up, and, we ended up with VPI instead of SU.

Do you not believe that an add of SU-UConn in 2011 would've locked up the northeast for the ACC, including a large part of NYC, with the ACCBT eventually moving there to MSG? Again, from a simple fan's perspective, I do.

Both times, it appeared to me that his goal was an ACC that ran the length of the east coast, with schools who had Olympic sports programs that could fill a future ACCN.

Where am I wrong, in your opinion?

I don't know, of course, whether Swofford's intent in '03 was a conference the extended the length of the Atlantic seaboard or not, but if it wasn't, it should have been. And if that was his intent, why didn't he simply say so? If that is his intent, why doesn't he say so now? Is his shyness a result of not wanting to piss off the B1G who seems to have designs on the North Atlantic themselves? I would have preferred an even bolder position than merely a conference that does business along the entire length of the Atlantic, such as "The ACC intends to be the preeminent college athletic conference along the eastern seaboard." That would have been a statement with some meat on it, something members could rally behind, something they would be willing to work toward.

The trouble with stating a goal is that it opens up the floodgates of second guessing. What, for example, did the additions of Pitt and Louisville have to do with the eastern seaboard objective? Why have an objective if you're just going to ignore it?

If Swofford's goal was a length-of-the-coast conference with oodles of quality network content, then it was his strategy that was flawed. Where was his vision most at risk? Why the North Atlantic, that's where. So, what's he do? Adds BC. Boston's on the North Atlantic, solid move. But he adds Miami. Huh? He's already got a solid Florida member. Marginal move at best but made worse because Miami wasn't going anywhere. The SEC wasn't going to add them. His real problem was in not adding Rutgers and UConn. I realize neither school was ready for prime time then, but strategies aren't necessarily meant to yield immediate payback. His biggest mistake was leaving that gaping freeway right through the heart of his conference ambitions, a freeway the B1G has now taken a leisurely Sunday drive down.

I'm not sure that Syracuse and UConn would have locked up the northeast in 2011 because it left a big, important piece (Rutgers) unaccounted for. Like I said, the play was Rutgers, UConn and BC. That not only would have locked up the northeast but also have blocked the B1G moving east. Where would they have gone? Temple? Not bloody likely.

As far a Louisville is concerned, so they would have gone to the B12, so what. Ditto Pitt. Neither fit the vision you articulated anyway. Let them go. Miami? They'd still be waiting patiently today should you want to invite them. Ditto Cuse.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

My thoughts on this thread after being away for a day and half:

- Holy crap!

- Louisville was the one of two possible replacements for Maryland and if the rumors (FSU and Clemson were leaving if football wasn't addressed) are true, it held The ACC together. IF that's the case, it was the only possible add. I have no clue if it's what went down, but completely understand The ACC's reasoning if it was.

- No matter the reason, the Louisville add was a black eye for The ACC reputation. Either they went back on their principle of academic schools (UConn is a better school than Louisville) or they lied to WVU. Not a big deal, but they did backtrack in someway.

- Swofford is not a bumbling fool, but made a HUGE mistake when he signed over The ACC's entire tv package to ESPN and Raycom for what amounts to a tier 1/2 money. I understand that while the traditional powers like UNC/FSU/UVA/Clemson will be fine, the bottom end will struggle. I actually think he is doing very well for the hand he has (and is partially responsible for). I believe that the addition of Miami, BC, Pitt, and 'Cuse were all done trying to get ND in the fold. Trying to get as many schools like ND (private, great academic schools in areas where many ND students come from) to lure The Irish into ACC membership was the plan. From what I have gathered, 'Cuse was supposed to be in when BC and Miami were invited, but The Virginia government pressured UVA to push for VT's invite instead. That tells me that The ACC was trying (or planning on trying) to lure ND for a very long time. When it looked like ND was staying independent in 2012, they made deal. Miami was a no brainer at the time, and 'Cuse appeased the BB schools too.

- In my opinion, the real reason The ND administration does't want the Big10 is they need to be a presence where they want and get their students from: The NE/NYC metro areas. Sure there is animosity toward The Big10 on the ND fans and alumni part, but I highly doubt that if being in The Big10 was best for ND, those events would prevent The ND administration from doing what is best for the school. They already have a presence in the biggest city in The Midwest (Chicago), but playing games in NY state, Boston, Pennsylvania (Pitt games are broadcast in the Philly area, I presume) and playing against teams that have a large NE/NYC alumni presence (Miami, Duke) is huge getting their brand out to prospective students.

- UMD is not deadbeat, but wasn't smart in saying they were going to fight it. Every school fights the exit fees. Only WVU payed the actual amount because they felt they were going to be left behind if they didn't join the B12 on the B12's terms. Of course they aren't paying, would you if you were in a lawsuit about an amount you didn't agree with? Any lawyer would say no.

- The addition of UMD and Rutgers most definitely wasn't a very good move on a performance basis, but it was a brilliant move in the conference realignment endgame. By taking UMD and Rutgers, it opened up the NYC area to further movement. Along with PSU, it made a bridge to NYC, allowed for further expansion if/when Rutgers wasn't enough without putting candidates out on an island. It partnered The BTN with the YES network in the NYC area. It also put 'Cuse, BC, and Pitt a long was away both distance and culturally speaking from their nearest member (UVA and VT). Being contingent with the traditional Big10 schools leaves so many possibilities open.

- I don't have an issue with ND not playing Michigan. Even though I have always enjoyed rivalry, I understand situations change. The only issue I have is telling Michigan on the day of a huge game at the last minute possible so they could have the last one at ND this year.

- And, for what this thread is about, I think UConn best fits in the Big 10 as it's fits best institutionally. The Big10 is a great BB conference (better than The ACC the past few years, imo). They fit the mold of a Big10 school, academically. I believe that the combo of PSU, Rutgers, and UConn would solidify the Philly/Jersey/NYC area as best as it could be (the only help would be either ND or if St. John's/NYU had a football team). By doing that, along with the basketball aspect, would be a boon for UConn both athletically and financially.

I wouldn't have thought I agree so much with that avatar.

- I'm not sure what other football brands were available in 2012. WVU was already in the Big12. Other than break continuity and reach into Texas for someone like UH, there were no clear options.

- Sure. Academics is a concern that can be ignored at will.

- a. The E-spinning is fine. This spring there has been media coverage of the entire ACC which was unthinkable in the previous 10 years {a brief update on the foibles of FSU and Clemson}.

b. Thread has noted we can't judge Swofford's plan until we figure out if he has one. But he certainly stabilized the conference after numerous obituaries on Twitter.

- Yeah

- Yeah

- We'll see.

- Right now Michigan has a 1 game lead in the modern series with one game remaining. I think people will start missing the game fairly soon but it will be a sporadic thing like ND-FSU became.

- Yes, UCONN appears to fit the BUG profile but you'll still need a simultaneous 16th member. Then the ACC would retaliate by adding Creighton.

 

[NickyNewark]

I wouldn't have thought I agree so much with that avatar.

- I'm not sure what other football brands were available in 2012. WVU was already in the Big12. Other than break continuity and reach into Texas for someone like UH, there were no clear options.

- Sure. Academics is a concern that can be ignored at will.

- a. The E-spinning is fine. This spring there has been media coverage of the entire ACC which was unthinkable in the previous 10 years {a brief update on the foibles of FSU and Clemson}.

b. Thread has noted we can't judge Swofford's plan until we figure out if he has one. But he certainly stabilized the conference after numerous obituaries on Twitter.

- Yeah

- Yeah

- We'll see.

- Right now Michigan has a 1 game lead in the modern series with one game remaining. I think people will start missing the game fairly soon but it will be a sporadic thing like ND-FSU became.

- Yes, UCONN appears to fit the BUG profile but you'll still need a simultaneous 16th member. Then the ACC would retaliate by adding Creighton.

Pretty sensible post by a ND fan. Plain and simple w/o negativity.