Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[Yawkey Way]

I'm not talking about the ACC. ND will never join the ACC. When the time comes and the P5 rig things against the notion of independence, ND isn't going to join the ACC.

If ND is forced to join a league, that league will be the ACC, imo.

ND had a chance to put their Hockey Program last year in either the new BIG Hockey League ( with Wisco, Michigan, Ohio State, etc), or Hockey East ( with BC, BU, Uconn, etc), they asked for an invite to Hockey East. This is by no means insignificant in my view. ND is looking eastward, not to the old midwest " Rust Belt " for the future. ND also is a former member of the BE, where its football members are now found in the ACC. ND recently also agreed to put all their non football sports in the ACC, and the ACC and ND have agreed to have ND play a guarantee of 5 games ( almost half ) of their schedule in the coming years with ACC schools. By contrast, I see no evidence at all that ND is looking toward the " Rust Belt " of the Midwest for their school team's future. ND might not join up as a full member in football in the ACC soon, but if they someday join a league fully in football, all indications to me anyway, seem to point to the ACC.

 

[btstimpy]

I'm not talking about the ACC. ND will never join the ACC. When the time comes and the P5 rig things against the notion of independence, ND isn't going to join the ACC.

ND will not be joining any other P5 Conference. It's ACC or independence. Everyone at Notre Dame or associated with Notre Dame has been brutally clear on this.

 

[upstater]

If ND is forced to join a league, that league will be the ACC, imo.

ND had a chance to put their Hockey Program last year in either the new BIG Hockey League ( with Wisco, Michigan, Ohio State, etc), or Hockey East ( with BC, BU, Uconn, etc), they asked for an invite to Hockey East. This is by no means insignificant in my view. ND is looking eastward, not to the old midwest " Rust Belt " for the future. ND also is a former member of the BE, where its football members are now found in the ACC. ND recently also agreed to put all their non football sports in the ACC, and the ACC and ND have agreed to have ND play a guarantee of 5 games ( almost half ) of their schedule in the coming years with ACC schools. By contrast, I see no evidence at all that ND is looking toward the " Rust Belt " of the Midwest for their future. ND might not join up as a full member in football in the ACC soon, but if they someday join a league, all indications to me anyway, seem to point to the ACC.

The reason ND is affiliating with conferences other than the B1G is because they want to stay independent as long as possible. When the "Come to Jesus" moment arrives, they will fulfill their ultimate destiny.

 

[upstater]

ND will not be joining any other P5 Conference. It's ACC or independence. Everyone at Notre Dame or associated with Notre Dame has been brutally clear on this.

You guys are being suckered. It's OK, it happens to everybody.

 

[btstimpy]

When ND joined the ACC partially, the AD of ND was asked if he supported continuing a relationship with UConn. He reply was tepid at best. I don't believe ND would support UConn's admission to the ACC.

I saw that and thought it was more of Swarbrick dodging the question than suggesting that he did not support UConn.

 

[btstimpy]

The reason ND is affiliating with conferences other than the B1G is because they want to stay independent as long as possible. When the "Come to Jesus" moment arrives, they will fulfill their ultimate destiny.

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten. In fact, Notre Dame is removing Big Ten schools from their football schedules for the next decade right as we are having this conversation.

 

[TerryD]

I'm not talking about the ACC. ND will never join the ACC. When the time comes and the P5 rig things against the notion of independence, ND isn't going to join the ACC.

No, ND will remain independent indefinitely, in my opinion. But, if the unthinkable happens, ND will NOT join the Big Ten.

UConn fans and administrators intensely dislike the ACC for past actions. I get that, entirely. If I were a UConn fan, I would too.

Conversely, UConn fans need to realize the depth of dislike that ND fans, alumni, boosters and administrators have for the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten unless it is the last choice on Earth. It doesn't matter that the Big Ten would mean less travel and more TV money. ND despises the idea of belonging to that conference.

Finally, ND is governed by the ACC GOR (which it signed) and exit fee. Plus, ND and the ACC signed a contract that states if ND football joins any conference for football between now and 2027, it has to be the ACC.

 

[upstater]

No, ND will remain independent indefinitely, in my opinion. But, if the unthinkable happens, ND will NOT join the Big Ten.

UConn fans and administrators intensely dislike the ACC for past actions. I get that, entirely. If I were a UConn fan, I would too.

Conversely, UConn fans need to realize the depth of dislike that ND fans, alumni, boosters and administrators have for the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten unless it is the last choice on Earth. It doesn't matter that the Big Ten would mean less travel and more TV money. ND despises the idea of belonging to that conference.

This has nothing to do with UConn. The B1G would never have given a partial membership to ND, so ND has to feign affinity. That's how it works. As the B1G moves into the metroplex, where much of ND's popularity resides )NOT down south), the B1G becomes the natural cultural home for ND. We're not only talking about money and TV, etc., but the homebase which will extend far beyond the midwest and already does. ND grabs most of its players from Ohio, Penn., the entire northeast including NJ, and also the south atlantic coast.

One question: I know the boosters and alumni might not like the B1G, but why do you say the administrators hate it? Wasn't it the adminstrators who were in favor until they got alumni/booster blowback a decade ago? Are you saying Swarbrick/Jenkins are somehow different than White/Malloy in regard to how they view the B1G?

The big tell for me has always been administrator and faculty reactions to prior negotiations to join the B1G. The blowback was all about maintaining ND's independence, which is understandable.

ND twice fooled the BE people in regard to their true intentions. I expect the same to happen to the ACC eventually.

 

[upstater]

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten. In fact, Notre Dame is removing Big Ten schools from their football schedules for the next decade right as we are having this conversation.

ND's priority is to remain independent. If removing B1G schools in favor of ACC schools allows ND to remain independent, they will kick those schools to the curb as fast as possible. You are confusing effects with causes.

 

[MSNDfan]

Stimpy, come on. You're better than this. Your arguments, in general, are too cogent to be those of a troll. How can you miss this point so widely? Delany's Rutgers move is so strategic it literally makes 90% of the fans on this board wretch. State flagship, check. Strong commitment to academics (as measured by AAU membership), check. Adjacent, eastward footprint, check. Expanding population, check and, sweet Jesus, double check.

Many here seems willing to give the ACC an understandable pass on Louisville. After all, they, arguably, showed up at the "must replace Maryland ... must replace Maryland ..." confab with the best stated set of credentials. The Louisville acquisition can only be understood in the context of the ACC as a conference without a purpose. Louisville to the ACC was as well conceived as West Virginia to the Big12 was (and I'm not here to pick on either L'ville or WVU). Seriously, the chickens should have at least tried to re-attach their heads before pulling those levers.

Louisville's addition despite violating of two of the ACCs most understandable and defensible tenets, the Atlantic coast and strong academics (I, for one, didn't fault you guys for picking up Boston College which fit both), was simply a foreseeable consequence of the ACC having no governing principles. They are impetuous, favor expediency over thoughtfulness. Delany can articulate a vision, why can't Swofford?

How in the world was the ACC adding Louisville anything like the Big 12 adding WVU? Is Louisville 1000 miles from the closest ACC school? Is it in an entirely different time zone from the rest of the conference? Does Louisville have 0 history with all the other schools in the conference?

Maybe you don't know geography well, but in that sense what Louisville did for the ACC is make ND linked directly to the heart of the ACC. IN borders KY which borders VA which borders NC. Being an Irish fan, stuff like that I can see easily. What the ACC did for ND football in adding Louisville is provide a virtual midwestern team - Louisville is literally only the width of the Ohio River from being in IN - for us to play every 3rd year, and that will go a long way to replacing the BUG teams we no longer have time to play.

But that is far from all Louisville offers. It offers more in terms of football than UConn does, and football drives the bus of conference realignment - save for the BUG, which added 2 football duds and fiscal basket cases because of their TV markets. Louisville has a state of the art stadium renovated to seat 55,000. Louisville has won 3 different BCS bowls over the past 25 years, 2 of them in the past decade, each of them won by a different coach. A fourth coach in the same time frame also had an 11 win Liberty Bowl champ. Louisville is 100 miles from Cincinnati, which is a hotbed of football recruiting.

Why is that so hard to see for UConn fans? If expansion were about basketball, I would know why a conference would take Marquette or Georgetown over ND. I might not like it, but I would understand why the choice was made and know that it makes sense.

 

[TerryD]

This has nothing to do with UConn. The B1G would never have given a partial membership to ND, so ND has to feign affinity. That's how it works. As the B1G moves into the metroplex, where much of ND's popularity resides )NOT down south), the B1G becomes the natural cultural home for ND. We're not only talking about money and TV, etc., but the homebase which will extend far beyond the midwest and already does. ND grabs most of its players from Ohio, Penn., the entire northeast including NJ, and also the south atlantic coast.

One question: I know the boosters and alumni might not like the B1G, but why do you say the administrators hate it? Wasn't it the adminstrators who were in favor until they got alumni/booster blowback a decade ago? Are you saying Swarbrick/Jenkins are somehow different than White/Malloy in regard to how they view the B1G?

The big tell for me has always been administrator and faculty reactions to prior negotiations to join the B1G. The blowback was all about maintaining ND's independence, which is understandable.

ND twice fooled the BE people in regard to their true intentions. I expect the same to happen to the ACC eventually.

It was the faculty senate that voted in favor of Big Ten membership, not the entire administration. Malloy and White may have been in favor, but not the rest. The Board of Trustees certainly hated the idea and voted it down 15 years ago (not ten) in 1999.

It was partially the actions of Malloy and White then that made Malloy the first sitting ND president to not get an extension of his contract rubber stamped by the Board (he is now at the University of Portland) and for White to forced out as ND AD (he is now at Duke).

ND is looking East and Southeast. The Big Ten is not going to kill off the ACC, in my opinion. ND doesn't want to join any conference fully. I don't think that they will ever have to. But, if they do, it will be the ACC, not the Big Ten.

The ACC is where ND wants to be. It contains a number of private universities like ND (Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech), not a bunch of large, land grant schools like the Big Ten.

And yes, I am absolutely saying that Father John Jenkins and Kevin White are entirely different than Malloy and White.

It is an entirely new regime at ND. There is zero support from anyone at ND to have anything to do with the Big Ten.

Finally, you forget to factor in the ACC GOR, exit fee and the contract that stipulates if ND joins any conference for football prior to 2027, it must be the ACC,

If you are hoping that ND and UConn will join the Big Ten as a package deal, your hopes are misplaced.

 

[upstater]

It was the faculty senate that voted in favor of Big Ten membership, not the entire administration. Malloy and White may have been in favor, but not the rest. The Board of Trustees certainly hated the idea and voted it down 15 years ago (not ten) in 1999.

It was partially the actions of Malloy and White then that made Malloy the first sitting ND president to not get an extension of his contract rubber stamped by the Board (he is now at the University of Portland) and for White to forced out as ND AD (he is now at Duke).

ND is looking East and Southeast. The Big Ten is not going to kill off the ACC, in my opinion. ND doesn't want to join any conference fully. I don't think that they will ever have to. But, if they do, it will be the ACC, not the Big Ten.

The ACC is where ND wants to be. It contains a number of private universities like ND (Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech), not a bunch of large, land grant schools like the Big Ten.

And yes, I am absolutely saying that Father John Jenkins and Kevin White are entirely different than Malloy and White.

It is an entirely new regime at ND. There is zero support from anyone at ND to have anything to do with the Big Ten.

Finally, you forget to factor in the ACC GOR, exit fee and the contract that stipulates if ND joins any conference for football prior to 2027, it must be the ACC,

If you are hoping that ND and UConn will join the Big Ten as a package deal, your hopes are misplaced.

I have heard this from ND fans. I admire how your administration keeps things so close to the vest to maintain priority #1. I will never buy that you guys have more in common with the Y'allers than the New Yorkers, New Jerseyites, Pennsylvanians and those from Maryland and Ohio. No sireee.

 

[Adios]

....and now you know how we feel about the ACC...Michigan is to the Big Ten is to ND as BC is to the ACC is to UConn

I swear, I've seen horror in the eyes of BC people when I mention UConn going to the B1G. Let's go for it!

 

[btstimpy]

I have heard this from ND fans. I admire how your administration keeps things so close to the vest to maintain priority #1. I will never buy that you guys have more in common with the Y'allers than the New Yorkers, New Jerseyites, Pennsylvanians and those from Maryland and Ohio. No sireee.

I don't get your point here. The ACC has Bostonians, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. And we have plenty of New Jerseyites at Duke. The Y'allers are just a bonus.

 

[tzznandrew]

I suspect we're nearing an end game with conference realignment, and that end game will necessitate a school like Notre Dame to choose a conference for all sports.

While I have no love for ND, I ultimately think, if forced to join, they'd prefer the ACC...the football is just not nearly as difficult, top to bottom, in the ACC, and a division that keeps them on the opposite side of FSU, Clemson, and Miami would allow them to beat up on some of their old punching bags (BC, Pitt, Syracuse) and add in some new ones (Duke, UNC), and basically give them a cake-walk into a Top 15 finish nearly every year, depending on who they draw from the other division, and if they keep up their USC/Stanford games.

It just makes a lot of sense, and they actually have more peer universities (Duke/BC) in the ACC than in the B1G (Northwestern).

 

[upstater]

I don't get your point here. The ACC has Bostonians, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. And we have plenty of New Jerseyites at Duke. The Y'allers are just a bonus.

The ACC has Bostonians? Really? Peter Gammons said the town is awash with Uconn right now, not paying much attention to Yanks-Red Sox. And Pitt hardly brings out the Pitters in Pitt, never mind the Pennsylvanians. There's a school a bit further east that does it for PA. Not sure why a few hundred Duke students are being compared to 40,000 Rutgers students.

 

[Pat125]

That's when John Swofford called Mike Aresco and said that there would only be one.

AAC receptionist: Mr Aresco, Emperor Palpatine on line one.

MA: Hi John, what's up?

JS: I just wanted to let you know we are only going to take one team this time. I was originally planning on taking three.

MA: Could you repeat that? I could not possibly have heard you correctly.

JS: I said we are only poaching one team instead of three.

MA: So you called me to tell this. Thanks for letting me know. Now I only want to punch you in the face one time instead of three. Do you have a clue about anything? But I leave you with a piece of advice. Think long term instead of acting out of desperation. You had the chance of poaching the best team from our conference and you blew it. Have a good day.

MA (to receptionist): You are not going to believe what that d&&chebag called to tell me. What a class guy.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Syracuse lost the 2015 (and 2017?) game at ND and will play "home" road games in 2014 and 2016 at Met Life. I'm not sure they're thrilled about that.

Navy would obviously play ND anywhere but ND would likely have to make that a "Shamrock Series" game (to play there more often) and they already have people lined up or on the drawing board for those games.

The ACC has literally missed out completely on NY/NJ and nearby areas in their expansion. After the Syracuse-USC game at Met Life made a mockery of SU's claim to be NY's team (reported 39K with estimates that it was closer to 30K and widespread ticket discounts and even freebies being offered in the weeks leading up to the game), it is clear that only ND (plus their lackey SU) will ever play before the 30M or so between greater Philly and Southern NE.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

How in the world was the ACC adding Louisville anything like the Big 12 adding WVU? Is Louisville 1000 miles from the closest ACC school? Is it in an entirely different time zone from the rest of the conference? Does Louisville have 0 history with all the other schools in the conference?

Maybe you don't know geography well, but in that sense what Louisville did for the ACC is make ND linked directly to the heart of the ACC. IN borders KY which borders VA which borders NC. Being an Irish fan, stuff like that I can see easily. What the ACC did for ND football in adding Louisville is provide a virtual midwestern team - Louisville is literally only the width of the Ohio River from being in IN - for us to play every 3rd year, and that will go a long way to replacing the BUG teams we no longer have time to play.

But that is far from all Louisville offers. It offers more in terms of football than UConn does, and football drives the bus of conference realignment - save for the BUG, which added 2 football duds and fiscal basket cases because of their TV markets. Louisville has a state of the art stadium renovated to seat 55,000. Louisville has won 3 different BCS bowls over the past 25 years, 2 of them in the past decade, each of them won by a different coach. A fourth coach in the same time frame also had an 11 win Liberty Bowl champ. Louisville is 100 miles from Cincinnati, which is a hotbed of football recruiting.

Why is that so hard to see for UConn fans? If expansion were about basketball, I would know why a conference would take Marquette or Georgetown over ND. I might not like it, but I would understand why the choice was made and know that it makes sense.

Both Louisville and WVU were desperation moves. Neither addition was part of a well planned and executed strategy. As far as I can discern, the Big12, like the ACC has no apparent guiding mission statement. The objective of the B12 can be summed up as "Don't piss Texas off." I don't think the ACC has yet replaced their old objective of "Kill the Big East." The ACC used about a 5 minute time horizon to judge the value of a 50 year commitment to its newest member.

Again, the ACC is not exercising strategic thinking. I've asked several times for the ACC's vision statement as articulated by its commissioner. I'm spending a relaxing, if uninteresting day, enjoying the crickets. Strategies attempt to optimize the whole, not particular subsets. If the ACC were simply asking of the candidates to replace Maryland, "What have you done lately?" Louisville was a fine selection. Unless someone connected with the conference identifies its goals, nobody can reasonably estimate the wisdom of the Cardinals addition.

 

[kibblesnbits]

That link says that now Louisville's freshmen have an average ACT score of 25.2. That is not the highest in the land, but it is well beyond the community college that a number of people here have called Louisville.

What is the UConn average score?

28

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC has Bostonians? Really? Peter Gammons said the town is awash with Uconn right now, not paying much attention to Yanks-Red Sox. And Pitt hardly brings out the Pitters in Pitt, never mind the Pennsylvanians. There's a school a bit further east that does it for PA. Not sure why a few hundred Duke students are being compared to 40,000 Rutgers students.

I can assure you that when Notre Dame plays its football game in Fenway Park there will be plenty of Bostonians showing up to watch. And the same will happen at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh. Plenty of Pennsylvanians will be in the stands. And when Notre Dame plays Syracuse in the Meadowlands, there will be citizens of New Jersey and New York in attendance. Maybe even Connecticut.

 

[Seaa Blue]

It is an entirely new regime at ND. There is zero support from anyone at ND to have anything to do with the Big Ten.

"Those people have been dealt with appropriately... However, we do encourage acceptance and tolerance as a way of life and from time to time find it to fit in well with our religious heritage."

(I only promised to lay off ND on the other site Terry )

 

[upstater]

28

DOE at this link has the Louisville average at 23: http://colleges.findthebest.com/q/1...average-ACT-score-at-University-of-Louisville

By the way, did anyone here take the ACT? Seems the number of Conn. students taking that test would be very limited. At UL, 90% take the ACT.

 

[upstater]

I can assure you that when Notre Dame plays its football game in Fenway Park there will be plenty of Bostonians showing up to watch. And the same will happen at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh. Plenty of Pennsylvanians will be in the stands. And when Notre Dame plays Syracuse in the Meadowlands, there will be citizens of New Jersey and New York in attendance. Maybe even Connecticut.

This is irrelevant. We're talking about ND marketing itself. The huge population centers are not fans of the regional/limited schools that the ACC has chosen to affiliate itself with. You guys are taking very small slivers of the pie. Very small.

 

[BC1978]

I suspect we're nearing an end game with conference realignment, and that end game will necessitate a school like Notre Dame to choose a conference for all sports.

While I have no love for ND, I ultimately think, if forced to join, they'd prefer the ACC...the football is just not nearly as difficult, top to bottom, in the ACC, and a division that keeps them on the opposite side of FSU, Clemson, and Miami would allow them to beat up on some of their old punching bags (BC, Pitt, Syracuse) and add in some new ones (Duke, UNC), and basically give them a cake-walk into a Top 15 finish nearly every year, depending on who they draw from the other division, and if they keep up their USC/Stanford games.

It just makes a lot of sense, and they actually have more peer universities (Duke/BC) in the ACC than in the B1G (Northwestern).

"Old punching bags"? ND's lifetime record against BC is 13-9. A decided edge for ND to be sure, but BC has hardly been a "punching bag" for them.