Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[RegisteredUconn]

How about add another school with a strong athletic department from an overlapping state with a SEC team where a great season ending football matchup can take place as well as create another strong ACC-SEC basketball matchup. It works well in Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. Look at Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas to see if one can be identified.

I can see you are warming to the notion that a mission statement truly is needed. Your initial attempt is too narrowly focused to serve, however. How, for example, did the addition of BC support adding schools with strong athletic departments? How did Pitt and Cuse represent additions from states with overlapping SEC teams? I suspect the reason Swofford doesn't offer one is that trying to explain how his expansion moves match his mission would be about as difficult as trying to explain the motion of heavenly bodies once one hypothesizes the earth is the center of the universe.

 

[BC1978]

Haha. I hadn't realized the "rivalry" didn't go back further. So, fair enough. But BC is not as impressive or intimidating as USC, Michigan, Michigan State...and even recently, Stanford. So while I perhaps overstated my point with "punching bag," my basic point that ND would have the advantage of having some easier games against teams that they have historic relationships with is still true.

tzznandreww - I never said that a BC series was as impressive to ND fans as the Stanford, Michigan, or Michigans State series. It is not. But that wasn't your point in the OP. My limited comment was refuting your statement that BC FB has been a "punching bag" for ND when, clearly, it has not been.

 

[btstimpy]

Haha. I hadn't realized the "rivalry" didn't go back further. So, fair enough. But BC is not as impressive or intimidating as USC, Michigan, Michigan State...and even recently, Stanford. So while I perhaps overstated my point with "punching bag," my basic point that ND would have the advantage of having some easier games against teams that they have historic relationships with is still true.

Notre Dame gets to keep its historic rivalries with Pittsburgh and Boston College, and Notre Dame gets to restore two from yesteryear in Miami and Georgia Tech to replace Michigan and Michigan State.

 

[btstimpy]

I can see you are warming to the notion that a mission statement truly is needed. Your initial attempt is too narrowly focused to serve, however. How, for example, did the addition of BC support adding schools with strong athletic departments? How did Pitt and Cuse represent additions from states with overlapping SEC teams? I suspect the reason Swofford doesn't offer one is that trying to explain how his expansion moves match his mission would be about as difficult as trying to explain the motion of heavenly bodies once one hypothesizes the earth is the center of the universe.

The ACC is in three regions (Northeast, Mid Atlantic, and South). The Pitt Cuse additions were in the Northeast part and driven largely by the Tobacco Road basketball interests. When Maryland left, the southern schools of the ACC wanted their opportunity to pick, and they selected Louisville for the reasons I stated. And Louisville's basketball wasn't so bad that the Tobacco Road folks could object like the could on USF or UCF. The Tobacco Road folks do still like UConn, and if expansion fever returns and UConn is still in the AAC, UConn will be seriously considered.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten. In fact, Notre Dame is removing Big Ten schools from their football schedules for the next decade right as we are having this conversation.

Exactly.

 

[specialisthusky]

The ACC is in three regions (Northeast, Mid Atlantic, and South). The Pitt Cuse additions were in the Northeast part and driven largely by the Tobacco Road basketball interests. When Maryland left, the southern schools of the ACC wanted their opportunity to pick, and they selected Louisville for the reasons I stated. And Louisville's basketball wasn't so bad that the Tobacco Road folks could object like the could on USF or UCF. The Tobacco Road folks do still like UConn, and if expansion fever returns and UConn is still in the AAC, UConn will be seriously considered.

Except neither Syracuse nor Pitt is located the north east...

 

[Seaa Blue]

How in the world was the ACC adding Louisville anything like the Big 12 adding WVU? Is Louisville 1000 miles from the closest ACC school? Is it in an entirely different time zone from the rest of the conference? Does Louisville have 0 history with all the other schools in the conference?

Maybe you don't know geography well, but in that sense what Louisville did for the ACC is make ND linked directly to the heart of the ACC.

What? Louisville is nearly the maximum length of Indiana from South Bend. At 4 hours, 20 minutes, the linking effect you mention is only relative to Louisville's general isolation from the ACC. Virginia Tech is the next nearest neighbor at 6 hours, 13 minutes. http://cardinalsportszone.com/2012/11/28/distance-from-louisville-to-acc-schools/

Compare that to having over half of the Big Ten within the same 4 hours, 20 minutes of Notre Dame (Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin). There's some geography for ya.

 

[Yawkey Way]

The ACC has Bostonians? Really? Peter Gammons said the town is awash with Uconn right now, not paying much attention to Yanks-Red Sox.

Silly stuff huh ? I like Peter Gammons, but theRed Sox - Yankees games this weekend will blow out the Boston TV watching audience numbers for the Uconn basketball games on TV last week. I mean I get the love you have for Uconn, , ( and the hate for BC) and all, but lets not go completely overboard here. Boston is a pro sports town, and most casual sports fans in this region consider the college game as the minor leagues, with amateurs playing these games ( which basically, they are ).

 

[btstimpy]

Except neither Syracuse nor Pitt is located the north east...

It looks like they qualify to me. http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/ne_us.pdf

 

[BCINGYA]

Yeah...I love UConn, and there is a presence here...but mostly among former CT residents or UConn alum. It's sizable enough to take over some bars when the tournament is on, but I'm not sure who Gammons is talking to. UConn doesn't really move the needle much. To be fair, neither does BC (other than hockey).

I think we can agree on this ....BIG pie....LOTS of slices

 

[Yawkey Way]

It was the faculty senate that voted in favor of Big Ten membership, not the entire administration. Malloy .

True... and also, if a school's " faculty Senate " input ever counted for anything, this website ( and most other major college teams websites ) wouldn't exist, as none of these football programs we are discussing today would exist. So we all should be able to agree here that whatever the college professors vote is, at any of these schools, it isn't worth diddly squat in any of this.

 

[tzznandrew]

tzznandreww - I never said that a BC series was as impressive to ND fans as the Stanford, Michigan, or Michigans State series. It is not. But that wasn't your point in the OP. My limited comment was refuting your statement that BC FB has been a "punching bag" for ND when, clearly, it has not been.

Right. My point had very little to do with BC at all. It was that I think ultimately ND will join the ACC, if forced by conference realignment, largely because there are some teams they have historically played in the ACC, and those teams aren't that challenging in relation to parts of their schedule they dropped. Hence, I said punching bags...and you, rightly, corrected me, but it doesn't invalidate my larger point.

 

[BC1978]

Right. My point had very little to do with BC at all. It was that I think ultimately ND will join the ACC, if forced by conference realignment, largely because there are some teams they have historically played in the ACC, and those teams aren't that challenging in relation to parts of their schedule they dropped. Hence, I said punching bags...and you, rightly, corrected me, but it doesn't invalidate my larger point.

Agreed, tzznandrew. Good points.

 

[tzznandrew]

Notre Dame gets to keep its historic rivalries with Pittsburgh and Boston College, and Notre Dame gets to restore two from yesteryear in Miami and Georgia Tech to replace Michigan and Michigan State.

It's why I think it could happen. But, if the P5 doesn't force ND into a conference, the ACC better be ready for the wheeling and backstabbing ND will do to ensure it's indepedence is preserved.

 

[btstimpy]

It's why I think it could happen. But, if the P5 doesn't force ND into a conference, the ACC better be ready for the wheeling and backstabbing ND will do to ensure it's indepedence is preserved.

I've been warned many times. But so far there hasn't been any issues with ND. We start the football rotations this coming season. I don't expect any change in ND's relationship with the ACC until we get through at least 2 rotations which will be 6 years from now. ND also has a bunch of contracted games with teams up through 2022, so they couldn't join fully now if they wanted to without breaking those contracts.

 

[kibblesnbits]

It looks like they qualify to me. http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/ne_us.pdf

It looks like they qualify to me. http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/ne_us.pdf

When people think of the Northeast, particularly in terms of markets and $, they think of the Northeastern Megalopolis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis), not Western PA and Upstate NY, the latter of which has been in a virtual depression for 20 years. Note that MD, Rutgers and UConn are in said megalopolis while Pitt and Syracuse are not.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I have heard this from ND fans. I admire how your administration keeps things so close to the vest to maintain priority #1. I will never buy that you guys have more in common with the Y'allers than the New Yorkers, New Jerseyites, Pennsylvanians and those from Maryland and Ohio. No sireee.

I swear, I've seen horror in the eyes of BC people when I mention UConn going to the B1G. Let's go for it!

I'm from Boston, and the BC alums and hard core BC fans in the region that I encounter, get up ever day thinking about what ND is doing at every moment of their day it seems. The BC ones from NY- Jersey think about Rutgers, but neither think about Uconn football at all. Its a smug attitude some have, but that seems to be the case throughout the college football pecking order with school fanbases. Umass football fans would be in a tither over Uconn football going to the Big, as they delusionally view themselves at getting to Uconn's football level some day, but naturally Uconn football fans dismis Umass football in New England out of hand too, and don't think about them at all. They think about BC, and now Syracuse, and I get this whole dynamic and it makes sense of course too, imo

 

[tzznandrew]

I've been warned many times. But so far there hasn't been any issues with ND.

It's been a year. There's a reason BE football teams distrust and dislike Notre Dame, and it ain't because we're envious of their success.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I don't get your point here. The ACC has Bostonians, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. And we have plenty of New Jerseyites at Duke. The Y'allers are just a bonus.

Yes, I don't know what he means with this comment either. The southern ACC'ers have been exceedingly gracious in my wife and I in our travels to ACC venues for ACC games. I'm not sure btstimpy, if some of the Uconn fans have been to games in the South, but if they have, they'd know that by and large, despite the home fans fans hoping their teams kick the snoot out of their traveling opponents, they are universally hospitable, almost beyond belief, to opponent fans when they come down to visit their stadiums for football games. Virgina, Virginia Tech, Clemson, and Tallahassee have all been outstanding venues, and their fans gracious, friendly, and hospitable.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

It's been a year. There's a reason BE football teams distrust and dislike Notre Dame, and it ain't because we're envious of their success.

I'm from Boston, and the BC alums and hard core BC fans in the region that I encounter, get up ever day thinking about what ND is doing at every moment of their day it seems. The BC ones from NY- Jersey think about Rutgers, but neither think about Uconn football at all. Its a smug attitude some have, but that seems to be the case throughout the college football pecking order with school fanbases. Umass football fans would be in a tither over Uconn football going to the Big, as they delusionally view themselves at getting to Uconn's football level some day, but naturally Uconn football fans dismis Umass football in New England out of hand too, and don't think about them at all. They think about BC, and now Syracuse, and I get this whole dynamic and it makes sense of course too, imo

We would take UMass football seriously if the state of Massachusetts took is serious.
We honestly don't know if they will ever get the support to be FSB.

 

[btstimpy]

When people think of the Northeast, particularly in terms of markets and $, they think of the Northeastern Megalopolis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis), not Western PA and Upstate NY, the latter of which has been in a virtual depression for 20 years. Note that MD, Rutgers and UConn are in said megalopolis while Pitt and Syracuse are not.

You are splitting hairs, but that makes a good argument for Temple. But most people I converse with in that Megalopolis on a daily basis bring up names like the Eagles, Giants, Patriots, Ravens, Redskins, Red Sox, Orioles, Yankees, Phillies a lot more than I ever hear mention of Maryland or Rutgers. My boss is one. Talks about the Eagles all the time. He's in Mt. Laurel, NJ. Never once mentions Rutgers. College Basketball is different. It gets attention in the megalopolis. That's why UConn would be a good candidate to add.

 

[kibblesnbits]

You are splitting hairs, but that makes a good argument for Temple. But most people I converse with in that Megalopolis on a daily basis bring up names like the Eagles, Giants, Patriots, Ravens, Redskins, Red Sox, Orioles, Yankees, Phillies a lot more than I ever hear mention of Maryland or Rutgers. My boss is one. Talks about the Eagles all the time. He's in Mt. Laurel, NJ. Never once mentions Rutgers. College Basketball is different. It gets attention in the megalopolis. That's why UConn would be a good candidate to add.

Excluding Syracuse from any economic discussion of Northeastern markets is hardly splitting hairs. Upstate NY, and to a lesser degree Western PA, have been in free fall for decades.

 

[btstimpy]

Yes, I don't know what he means with this comment either. The southern ACC'ers have been exceedingly gracious in my wife and I in our travels to ACC venues for ACC games. I'm not sure btstimpy, if some of the Uconn fans have been to games in the South, but by and large, despite the home fans fans hoping their teams kick the snoot out of their traveling opponents, they are universally hospitable, almost beyond belief, to opponent fans when they come down to visit their stadiums for football games. Virgina, Virginia Tech, Clemson, and Tallahassee have all been outstanding venues, and their fans gracious, friendly, and hospitable.

Football Games in the South are a big party. Most of the fans are there to have a good time, and visitors are welcomed. The ACC men's basketball tournament in Greensboro is a big party. I've read reports from some of the Pittsburgh fans commenting on how much fun they had there, and how shocked they were with the event. It's a big carnival outside Greensboro Coliseum with bands playing live music and all kinds of fun and games. I'm glad you had a good time at the games you went to.

 

[tzznandrew]

I'm from Boston, and the BC alums and hard core BC fans in the region that I encounter, get up ever day thinking about what ND is doing at every moment of their day it seems. The BC ones from NY- Jersey think about Rutgers, but neither think about Uconn football at all. Its a smug attitude some have, but that seems to be the case throughout the college football pecking order with school fanbases. Umass football fans would be in a tither over Uconn football going to the Big, as they delusionally view themselves at getting to Uconn's football level some day, but naturally Uconn football fans dismis Umass football in New England out of hand too, and don't think about them at all. They think about BC, and now Syracuse, and I get this whole dynamic and it makes sense of course too, imo

I'd give UMass some thought if:

1) they won their league twice in their first 10 years of inclusion;
2) their athletic department demonstrated that it could be competent enough to have teams win basketball, hockey, basketball, or soccer at a higher level; that would show that they could perhaps transfer over that success.

UConn football not only won their league twice in its first 10 years of D1 football, it also appeared in a BCS game. Our athletic department's success speaks for itself, as well. UMass has none of that.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The ACC is in three regions (Northeast, Mid Atlantic, and South). The Pitt Cuse additions were in the Northeast part and driven largely by the Tobacco Road basketball interests. When Maryland left, the southern schools of the ACC wanted their opportunity to pick, and they selected Louisville for the reasons I stated. And Louisville's basketball wasn't so bad that the Tobacco Road folks could object like the could on USF or UCF. The Tobacco Road folks do still like UConn, and if expansion fever returns and UConn is still in the AAC, UConn will be seriously considered.

I'm having trouble identifying the coterie of institutions that would constitute the ACC's Mid Atlantic faction. Actually, I don't really care either. My problem with the current iteration of your mission is that you've created groups with potentially conflicting interests in what should be a common, universal objective. What happens when the southern schools disagree with those of the northeast? Whether or not a considered acquisition can team with an intrastate rival for an end of season dust up might be a "nice to have" when considering an addition. It might even be the tipping point that unbalances the scales when two candidates are of nearly equal value, but I don't see how it reaches the level of a mission because of its lack of inclusiveness.

 

[Yawkey Way]

We would take UMass football seriously if the state of Massachusetts took is serious.
We honestly don't know if they will ever get the support to be FSB.

I don't know. Even if the Mass Legislature took Umass seriously, I don't think most Uconn football fans would take Umass football seriously. Nor should Uconn football fans be expected too. Umass football is a new attempt by them to rise to major college football status in New England, and as a result, why would Uconn football fans want to pay them much mind as a result ? So they don't... and I fully understand this too. Its like I said, the college football pecking order at play re. fanbases. Do ND football fans think about BC ? Heck, of course not. They think about USC, Michigan.

 

[MSNDfan]

I


This thread is about a ND fan wanting Uconn in the ACC. I'd love to see both ND and Uconn as full members of the ACC. Why not ? Although, I'm sure Cincy fans believe that they should come in before Uconn. But this will probably be decided over the next 2 years on the football field. As for the BIG, I don't believe they substantially helped themselves that much with adding Maryland and Rutgers.. not when by contrast, the ACC secured Louisville, and ND as a full member in all sports, and a 5 game guaranteed partial football qualifyer in the ACC. I'm not so convinced, as apparently some are, that Delaney came out better in this than did Swofford.

That's what it should have been about. What it became about was some UConn fans wallowing in bitterness that has turned to hatred, which completely clouds vision and understanding. That bitterness and hatred includes ND as well as the ACC.

If you persist in bitterness, you blind yourself to opportunities and how best to prepare for them.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I'm having trouble identifying the coterie of institutions that would constitute the ACC's Mid Atlantic faction. Actually, I don't really care either. My problem with the current iteration of your mission is that you've created groups with potentially conflicting interests in what should be a common, universal objective. What happens when the southern schools disagree with those of the northeast?

-How is that any different from the BUG10? Do you think Rutgers and Minnesota share the same goals; besides keeping the armored trucks rolling up University Drive?

-Rutgers did not have crowd support in the Pinstripe Bowl despite the fact that they arrived on a bus

One question: I know the boosters and alumni might not like the B1G, but why do you say the administrators hate it? Wasn't it the adminstrators who were in favor until they got alumni/booster blowback a decade ago? Are you saying Swarbrick/Jenkins are somehow different than White/Malloy in regard to how they view the B1G?.

Quite. Jenkins is on record as a football fan, virtually quoting ndnation that "We can't become a regional power as it will destroy our recruiting."

-We've pretty much discussed to death that there was no back-stabbing. We declined full membership in the BUG10, Big East, and ACC and reaffirmed independence.

 

[btstimpy]

I'm having trouble identifying the coterie of institutions that would constitute the ACC's Mid Atlantic faction. Actually, I don't really care either. My problem with the current iteration of your mission is that you've created groups with potentially conflicting interests in what should be a common, universal objective. What happens when the southern schools disagree with those of the northeast? Whether or not a considered acquisition can team with an intrastate rival for an end of season dust up might be a "nice to have" when considering an addition. It might even be the tipping point that unbalances the scales when two candidates are of nearly equal value, but I don't see how it reaches the level of a mission because of its lack of inclusiveness.

I consider Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and Eastern Pensylvania/Southern NJ Mid-Atlantic. The ACC did take a hit in the Mid-Atlantic by losing Maryland. That can be restored by adding Temple or Navy, but I don't think that is the direction the ACC is considering.

 

[Yawkey Way]

What happens when the southern schools disagree with those of the northeast?.

Well, havn't we been told that they defer to whatever it is that BC wants to do in cases like, and lets BC wishes prevail with these so called " southern schools " ?( again, I'm just trying to apply the reasoning oftentimes heard).

Duke is located in Raleigh. Is it a " southern school ". if so, much of its student body is from outside the South. The furthest " southern school" geogahically is Miami.. but I wouldn't call this former BE school a " southern school ", and their relationship with the northeast schools of Syracuse and BC and Pitt is better than it is with a school right within its state in the ACC... Florida State. There are lots of leagues now that seem not to make much sense. The ACC doesn't seem to me to be much different in this respect... and the AAC , surely doesn't make much sense either re. teams, schools, missions, etc