Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[Stray_Dog]

That's what it should have been about. What it became about was some UConn fans wallowing in bitterness that has turned to hatred, which completely clouds vision and understanding. That bitterness and hatred includes ND as well as the ACC.

If you persist in bitterness, you blind yourself to opportunities and how best to prepare for them.

...and ND has no bitterness to UM or the Big 10...please get off your righteous high horse, I certainly do not want nor did I seek a morality lesson from THE Judas University!

 

[Seaa Blue]

That's what it should have been about. What it became about was some UConn fans wallowing in bitterness that has turned to hatred, which completely clouds vision and understanding. That bitterness and hatred includes ND as well as the ACC.

If you persist in bitterness, you blind yourself to opportunities and how best to prepare for them.

You got it all wrong. It goes like this:

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
- Yoda

 

[tzznandrew]

I consider Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and Eastern Pensylvania/Southern NJ Mid-Atlantic. The ACC did take a hit in the Mid-Atlantic by losing Maryland. That can be restored by adding Temple or Navy, but I don't think that is the direction the ACC is considering.

I like you @btstimpy , but if you think Temple, or even Navy, can restore what you lost in Maryland, you're crazy.

Losing Maryland hurts. I know that the ACC doesn't want to admit that. Trust me, the Big East was there. We rationalized away losing Miami, and Virginia Tech, and BC. And then, for a time, we were better for it in basketball, and solid enough in football that the raid didn't really seem to matter.

But it did.

And the Maryland raid matters as well.

I like Louisville as a basketball program (although I'm less bullish on their football). I'm not going to trash their academics as some do...But they don't meet the ACC's professed standards. They should be in the BXII with West Virginia and Cincy. UConn should be in the ACC.

But the acceptance of Louisville highlighted a faultline, different from the faultline in the old Big East, but just as meaningful. The ACC is the basketball schools vs. the football schools politically. That division may not ultimately cause the league to disintegrate, but it has forced it to make short term decisions rather than long term ones, and that, I think, will hurt the league long term relative to the three other leagues that are stable (B1G, P12, SEC).

 

[btstimpy]

Excluding Syracuse from any economic discussion of Northeastern markets is hardly splitting hairs. Upstate NY, and to a lesser degree Western PA, have been in free fall for decades.

Ditto Michigan. It is the Rust Belt.

 

[tzznandrew]

That's what it should have been about. What it became about was some UConn fans wallowing in bitterness that has turned to hatred, which completely clouds vision and understanding. That bitterness and hatred includes ND as well as the ACC.

If you persist in bitterness, you blind yourself to opportunities and how best to prepare for them.

You can't blame us for being bitter. Look at what the BE was just last year, and then look at what the AAC will be this Fall. And that is, in part, due to a school like ND voting with the catholics all the way back in 2003.

Look, until UConn ends up in a real league (and I've frankly grown to like Memphis fans, so I hope they end up somewhere good as well), there will certainly be bitter directed at those who are in large part to blame for our situation. BC and Pitt are 1-2. But ND isn't that far behind.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Ditto Michigan. It is the Rust Belt.

And yet we're still here. Molecular cohesion still holding.

Thank God for Notre Dame, smack in the center, holding the ship together.

 

[NickyNewark]

You can't blame us for being bitter. Look at what the BE was just last year, and then look at what the AAC will be this Fall. And that is, in part, due to a school like ND voting with the catholics all the way back in 2003.

Look, until UConn ends up in a real league (and I've frankly grown to like Memphis fans, so I hope they end up somewhere good as well), there will certainly be bitter directed at those who are in large part to blame for our situation. BC and Pitt are 1-2. But ND isn't that far behind.

Looks like w/o Billybud and stimpy's called in the reinforcements or brainwash crew,,lots a luck ACC.Stimpcuse ur a gas!!

 

[btstimpy]

I like you @btstimpy , but if you think Temple, or even Navy, can restore what you lost in Maryland, you're crazy.

Losing Maryland hurts. I know that the ACC doesn't want to admit that. Trust me, the Big East was there. We rationalized away losing Miami, and Virginia Tech, and BC. And then, for a time, we were better for it in basketball, and solid enough in football that the raid didn't really seem to matter.

But it did.

And the Maryland raid matters as well.

I like Louisville as a basketball program (although I'm less bullish on their football). I'm not going to trash their academics as some do...But they don't meet the ACC's professed standards. They should be in the BXII with West Virginia and Cincy. UConn should be in the ACC.

But the acceptance of Louisville highlighted a faultline, different from the faultline in the old Big East, but just as meaningful. The ACC is the basketball schools vs. the football schools politically. That division may not ultimately cause the league to disintegrate, but it has forced it to make short term decisions rather than long term ones, and that, I think, will hurt the league long term relative to the three other leagues that are stable (B1G, P12, SEC).

If Maryland were thriving or supported anywhere near what you think they are, I'd agree with you. The rise of the Washington Nationals to take the last piece of corporate sponsorship away from the Terps in their region put them under financially. Heaven forbid if Baltimore ever gets a NBA team. I see Maryland athletics cutting sports and shrinking. I see Temple doing the same. The schools are about the same size. Temple may be larger. Temple is definitely in a larger market. Both Temple and Maryland have good basketball teams on occasion. Both make bowls on occasions.

Navy is a different story. It is a tiny school. But the US Navy is worldwide and has many active and retired personnel that watch that team. Their basketball would be a problem in the ACC.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I like you @btstimpy , but if you think Temple, or even Navy, can restore what you lost in Maryland, you're crazy.

Losing Maryland hurts. I know that the ACC doesn't want to admit that.
.

. quote]

The ACC replaced Maryland, by going out and getting Louisville. I don't think thats a wash. I believe the ACC got the better of that deal. But people are also entitled to believe that its better to have Maryland than Louisville, as its all a matter of opinion of course.

 

[NickyNewark]

Wher

Well, havn't we been told that they defer to whatever it is that BC wants to do in cases like, and lets BC wishes prevail with these so called " southern schools " ?( again, I'm just trying to apply the reasoning oftentimes heard).

Duke is located in Raleigh. Is it a " southern school ". if so, much of its student body is from outside the South. The furthest " southern school" geogahically is Miami.. but I wouldn't call this former BE school a " southern school ", and their relationship with the northeast schools of Syracuse and BC and Pitt is better than it is with a school right within its state in the ACC... Florida State. There are lots of leagues now that seem not to make much sense. The ACC doesn't seem to me to be much different in this respect... and the AAC , surely doesn't make much sense either re. teams, schools, missions, etc

WTF...stay away for a day and someones calling for the ACC propagandist bunch!! lol

 

[NickyNewark]

If Maryland were thriving or supported anywhere near what you think they are, I'd agree with you. The rise of the Washington Nationals to take the last piece of corporate sponsorship away from the Terps in their region put them under financially. Heaven forbid if Baltimore ever gets a NBA team. I see Maryland athletics cutting sports and shrinking. I see Temple doing the same. The schools are about the same size. Temple may be larger. Temple is definitely in a larger market. Both Temple and Maryland have good basketball teams on occasion. Both make bowls on occasions.

Navy is a different story. It is a tiny school. But the US Navy is worldwide and has many active and retired personnel that watch that team. Their basketball would be a problem in the ACC.

Stimp never quits....watup? Are u(stimpy) on the payroll of Swoffy? 1000 reasons to go to the ACC top's B1G(rustbelt) ....ur smooth stimpy but exposed. Unflappably professional.

 

[tzznandrew]

The ACC replaced Maryland, by going out and getting Louisville. I don't think thats a wash. I believe the ACC got the better of that deal. But people are also entitled to believe that its better to have Maryland than Louisville, as its all a matter of opinion of course.

I know you think that. And the performance in recent years in basketball and football certainly don't disprove you. And I like Louisville as a program. People like Senore here have been awesome.

But a state school like Maryland, with the state resources and higher academic standards, and success across multiple sports, is in a different stratosphere. And they pull in DC, aside from in Baltimore, and northern VA, and Philly. Louisville pulls Louisville. They get great ratings there, but they are the second school in their state.

 

[Gfunk]

Excluding Syracuse from any economic discussion of Northeastern markets is hardly splitting hairs. Upstate NY, and to a lesser degree Western PA, have been in free fall for decades.

Yeah, you could throw in Northern Indiana too - so the ACC has the Rust Belt issues as well: Pitt, ND & Syracuse, albeit Pittsburgh has done well to modernize their economy - a trend that could follow in other struggling Rust Belt areas. Buffalo is evidently rebounding & many parts of Ohio are doing better.

But I"m not one to root for economic ruin towards fellow Americans, regardless of region. When I took my oath during USMC enlistment, I swore to protect the entire nation - conference homerism will never exceed nation as a whole. The day that happens spells utter stupidity on my part.

 

[btstimpy]

I know you think that. And the performance in recent years in basketball and football certainly don't disprove you. And I like Louisville as a program. People like Senore here have been awesome.

But a state school like Maryland, with the state resources and higher academic standards, and success across multiple sports, is in a different stratosphere. And they pull in DC, aside from in Baltimore, and northern VA, and Philly. Louisville pulls Louisville. They get great ratings there, but they are the second school in their state.

DC is watching and supporting the Redskins and the Wizards, Baltimore is watching and supporting the Ravens, and Philly is watching and supporting the Eagles. Maryland won't be pulling Northern Virginia much. Penn State might though. The good news for Louisville is that Louisville actually does watch and support Louisville.

 

[pj]

How in the world was the ACC adding Louisville anything like the Big 12 adding WVU? Is Louisville 1000 miles from the closest ACC school? Is it in an entirely different time zone from the rest of the conference? Does Louisville have 0 history with all the other schools in the conference?

Maybe you don't know geography well, but in that sense what Louisville did for the ACC is make ND linked directly to the heart of the ACC. IN borders KY which borders VA which borders NC. Being an Irish fan, stuff like that I can see easily. What the ACC did for ND football in adding Louisville is provide a virtual midwestern team - Louisville is literally only the width of the Ohio River from being in IN - for us to play every 3rd year, and that will go a long way to replacing the BUG teams we no longer have time to play.

But that is far from all Louisville offers. It offers more in terms of football than UConn does, and football drives the bus of conference realignment - save for the BUG, which added 2 football duds and fiscal basket cases because of their TV markets. Louisville has a state of the art stadium renovated to seat 55,000. Louisville has won 3 different BCS bowls over the past 25 years, 2 of them in the past decade, each of them won by a different coach. A fourth coach in the same time frame also had an 11 win Liberty Bowl champ. Louisville is 100 miles from Cincinnati, which is a hotbed of football recruiting.

Why is that so hard to see for UConn fans? If expansion were about basketball, I would know why a conference would take Marquette or Georgetown over ND. I might not like it, but I would understand why the choice was made and know that it makes sense.

It's not hard for UConn fans to understand. What we understand are the ACC's priorities, some of which you've described -- entering the midwest, pleasing Notre Dame, football success -- and some you haven't -- pleasing BC and Syracuse, pandering to southern anti-Yankee prejudice, appeasing football schools' fear of a basketball-school dominated conference. Collectively these priorities made UConn unattractive to the ACC. Meanwhile we see the B1G's priorities, which would make UConn a top target, a higher priority for them than anyone the ACC added except perhaps Virginia Tech and Notre Dame, but certainly the B1G would take UConn ahead of Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Louisville, or Miami. So: rich good-looking girl values us highly; slightly dowdy girl dislikes us or is indifferent to us. Why wouldn't we feel more warmly to the rich good-looking girl who likes us?

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Coach Muffet might protest UCONN to the ACC but she is not going to trump a fiscal incentive.

Does Coach K have a Husky problem? That might be a bigger speed bump.

 

[btstimpy]

Coach Muffet might protest UCONN to the ACC but she is not going to trump a fiscal incentive.

Does Coach K have a Husky problem? That might be a bigger speed bump.

Coach K likes to promote good basketball and add good basketball teams. He would be a supporter of UConn. He is also very much a league advocate, not just a Duke advocate. It's one of the things I like about Coach K.

 

[Yawkey Way]

It's not hard for UConn fans to certainly the B1G would take UConn ahead of Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Louisville, or Miami.

I hear you on this, but if true ,why didn't ( and havn't ) the BIG taken Uconn, when it was there for the taking when Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville were still in the BE, and available to them. Why are they not calling now ?

 

[Sea Goat]

quote="tzznandrew, post: 933726, member: 168"]You can't blame us for being bitter. Look at what the BE was just last year, and then look at what the AAC will be this Fall. And that is, in part, due to a school like ND voting with the catholics all the way back in 2003.

Look, until UConn ends up in a real league (and I've frankly grown to like Memphis fans, so I hope they end up somewhere good as well), there will certainly be bitter directed at those who are in large part to blame for our situation. BC and Pitt are 1-2. But ND isn't that far behind.[/quote]

We'll get taken care of soon, IMO. In the meantime, the wizards of the ACC are saddled with perennial no shows like BC, Pitt and Syracuse. For all the hype about Syracuse, they have one BB title in 36 years (Boeheim's tenure) and their last football title was during the Eisenhower administration. Plus they bought the ND miracle elixer of partial (partial to ND) membership. We are better off in the B1G . Let's hope.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I hear you on this, but if true ,why didn't ( and havn't ) the BIG taken Uconn, when it was there for the taking when Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville were still in the BE, and available to them. Why are they not calling now ?

The BUG had to keep PSU happy so they wouldn't defect to the ACC. Hence Delaney grabbed their contiguous old rivals Rutgers and Maryland (the latter had one of their placed as President).

Same reasoning with the ACC keeping FSU happy so they wouldn't bolt for the Big12.

 

[upstater]

I can assure you that when Notre Dame plays its football game in Fenway Park there will be plenty of Bostonians showing up to watch. And the same will happen at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh. Plenty of Pennsylvanians will be in the stands. And when Notre Dame plays Syracuse in the Meadowlands, there will be citizens of New Jersey and New York in attendance. Maybe even Connecticut.

And that is relevant how?

 

[upstater]

-How is that any different from the BUG10? Do you think Rutgers and Minnesota share the same goals; besides keeping the armored trucks rolling up University Drive?

-Rutgers did not have crowd support in the Pinstripe Bowl despite the fact that they arrived on a bus

Quite. Jenkins is on record as a football fan, virtually quoting ndnation that "We can't become a regional power as it will destroy our recruiting."

-We've pretty much discussed to death that there was no back-stabbing. We declined full membership in the BUG10, Big East, and ACC and reaffirmed independence.

Depends on the region. Both conferences are in multiple regions. Northeast + Midwest for the B1G. Southeast + Northeast for the ACC. As I said, however, the B1G clearly has the best parts of the Northeast. The ACC somehow saddled itself with a regional school around the Pitt area, CNY and the icy tundra, and a Boston team whose football team is outdrawn in the Boston area by rodeo on ESPN2 when the school plays a conference game on ESPN. Meanwhile, the B1G grabbed Maryland, New Jersey and the vast majority of Pennsylvania.

You can backstab AND decline full membership. I well understand ND does the best to remain independent. The criticism comes in when ND votes on a question of football in the BE when it has no stake in football. If ND wanted to join the Catholic 7, that would have been absolutely fine with me. Instead, it voted in a way that prevented the football schools from leaving with half the assets. That was the backstab. The schools wanted to split the assets, but the ND vote prevented it.

 

[btstimpy]

And that is relevant how?

Marketing the school through football. What's important to Notre Dame is the physical appearance of its football team in those markets. In the ACC, Notre Dame can make physical appearances in those markets in league games. They can also do right down the eastern seaboard all the way to Miami hitting those big markets like Miami and Atlanta. And the only games they'll have to play in the Midwest are in South Bend, IN.

 

[upstater]

Silly stuff huh ? I like Peter Gammons, but theRed Sox - Yankees games this weekend will blow out the Boston TV watching audience numbers for the Uconn basketball games on TV last week. I mean I get the love you have for Uconn, , ( and the hate for BC) and all, but lets not go completely overboard here. Boston is a pro sports town, and most casual sports fans in this region consider the college game as the minor leagues, with amateurs playing these games ( which basically, they are ).

Let's see. 4 was the rating. For the women and men.

 

[upstater]

LOL yup-its a wash..with Runners training for the B.M., families clad in Sox gear, and student wearing sweatshirts of B.C., Harvard, N.U.,B.U., MIT, Wentworth, Emerson, and so on and so on. I was at a packed Clery's Irish Pub on Clarendon St/Columbus Ave last night watching the Sox/Yankees. I have lived/worked in Boston for the past 25 years two blocks from Copley and I assure you it is the same scene it is every year just before the impending Marathon. Did I miss something? Thanks for letting me know whats hot in the Bean at the moment.

I didn't let you know anything. What I stated was an absolute fact.

 

[upstater]

And yet we're still here. Molecular cohesion still holding.

Thank God for Notre Dame, smack in the center, holding the ship together.

You know the crazy stuff we've been hearing from these people for years? About the death of these areas? You'd think no one lived here. I'm in Buffalo. Within 1 hour and 15 minutes of me, there are 14 million people. Toronto + Hamilton + Buffalo + Rochester + Jamestown. Just like Michigan, a rusting hulk, with tens of millions of people living around Detroit.

Yet they tout Louisville's great TV market that is tops in the nation. We've heard this over and over. Meanwhile, a big chunk of that market is affiliated with Kentucky, and there are only 1.2 million people in the entire market. More people in New York City (4.6 rating among 23 million people) watched the women's championship than people in the Louisville (45 rating among 1.2 million) market watched the men's championship.

I think our ACC visitors need to understand some things about small markets like Louisville and Birmingham in relation to, say, Michigan or New Jersey or Pennsylvania, and heck, NY City. If UConn can draw a 2 rating in NYC, that will slay most of what goes on in the rest of he country.

 

[upstater]

Marketing the school through football. What's important to Notre Dame is the physical appearance of its football team in those markets. In the ACC, Notre Dame can make physical appearances in those markets in league games. They can also do right down the eastern seaboard all the way to Miami hitting those big markets like Miami and Atlanta. And the only games they'll have to play in the Midwest are in South Bend, IN.

So, you think Syracuse (that's not really going to help ND), Pitt and BC will be on the docket each and every year? ND wants Catholic populated areas. The northeast is the natural base. Not the south.

 

[UConn990411]

I can assure you that when Notre Dame plays its football game in Fenway Park there will be plenty of Bostonians showing up to watch. And the same will happen at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh. Plenty of Pennsylvanians will be in the stands. And when Notre Dame plays Syracuse in the Meadowlands, there will be citizens of New Jersey and New York in attendance. Maybe even Connecticut.

Notre Dame is not an ACC team. Nice try, though.

People in Boston don't give much a duckk about college sports, let alone the ACC.

 

[whaler11]

Well, havn't we been told that they defer to whatever it is that BC wants to do in cases like, and lets BC wishes prevail with these so called " southern schools " ?( again, I'm just trying to apply the reasoning oftentimes heard).

Duke is located in Raleigh. Is it a " southern school ". if so, much of its student body is from outside the South. The furthest " southern school" geogahically is Miami.. but I wouldn't call this former BE school a " southern school ", and their relationship with the northeast schools of Syracuse and BC and Pitt is better than it is with a school right within its state in the ACC... Florida State. There are lots of leagues now that seem not to make much sense. The ACC doesn't seem to me to be much different in this respect... and the AAC , surely doesn't make much sense either re. teams, schools, missions, etc

Just for the record Duke is in Durham. Saying it's in Raleigh would be like saying Yale is in Hartford.

Duke's student population has a strong New Jersey contigent.

 

[whaler11]

You know the crazy stuff we've been hearing from these people for years? About the death of these areas? You'd think no one lived here. I'm in Buffalo. Within 1 hour and 15 minutes of me, there are 14 million people. Toronto + Hamilton + Buffalo + Rochester + Jamestown. Just like Michigan, a rusting hulk, with tens of millions of people living around Detroit.

Yet they tout Louisville's great TV market that is tops in the nation. We've heard this over and over. Meanwhile, a big chunk of that market is affiliated with Kentucky, and there are only 1.2 million people in the entire market. More people in New York City (4.6 rating among 23 million people) watched the women's championship than people in the Louisville (45 rating among 1.2 million) market watched the men's championship.

I think our ACC visitors need to understand some things about small markets like Louisville and Birmingham in relation to, say, Michigan or New Jersey or Pennsylvania, and heck, NY City. If UConn can draw a 2 rating in NYC, that will slay most of what goes on in the rest of he country.

LOL no one has ever said Toronto is dying. Cleveland sure - have you been there lately?

Are you really trying to claim Detroit isn't a shell of what it was?