If Jackson Played for Calhoun…

[navery12]

I love All the dislikes I’ve have been getting - is what I am saying truly worth a dislike? LOL…

Yes, I think you are 100% off base with all of your takes in this thread. I'd continue to point out specifically where you're wrong with stats (hint: it's the nonsense you keep spewing about his passing and turnovers), but you've ignored it about 10 times already in this thread so I won't waste the time

 

[UCan3]

Yes, I think you are 100% off base with all of your takes in this thread. I'd continue to point out specifically where you're wrong with stats (hint: it's the nonsense you keep spewing about his passing and turnovers), but you've ignored it about 10 times already in this thread so I won't waste the time

Nonsense on the turnovers, passing whaaatttt?

Can you seriously sit there and honestly say AJ doesn’t have an issue with being overly careless with the ball which includes make ill advised passes that stand out for the poor idea behind the pass? And some of the wild one handed shots he was lobbing up?

Even Hurley would disagree you on that one as he brought up AJ’s play earlier this week.

I have no concerns about citing AJ’s erratic play - I think most agree. If I have to be the to bring it up, I’m fine with that - just trying to make sense of it, hoping we can get things fully turned around. It’s been a long, long time since we’ve won a game in the tourney, and it all counts right now.

 

[navery12]

Nonsense on the turnovers, passing whaaatttt?

Can you seriously sit there and honestly say AJ doesn’t have an issue with being overly careless with the ball which includes make ill advised passes that stand out for the poor idea behind the pass? And some of the wild one handed shots he was lobbing up?

Even Hurley would disagree you on that one as he brought up AJ’s play earlier this week.

I have no concerns about citing AJ’s erratic play - I think most agree. If I have to be the to bring it up, I’m fine with that - just trying to make sense of it, hoping we can get things fully turned around. It’s been a long, long time since we’ve won a game in the tourney, and it all counts right now.

Well he factually does not turn the ball over a lot despite your selective memory. And I'll leave it at that

 

[husky429]

is what I am saying truly worth a dislike?

Yes.

 

[husky429]

Nonsense on the turnovers, passing whaaatttt?

Some of us look at this mathy thing called "statistics."

4.5 AST and 1.8 TO

Those numbers put him elite company.

 

[navery12]

Some of us look at this mathy thing called "statistics."

4.5 AST and 1.8 TO

Those numbers put him elite company.

To put it in context, there are 15 players in all of college basketball who are doing that

 

[UCan3]

Wow AJ is at bottom in points in this snapshot, like the very bottom… Making it all the more important he doesn‘t turn ball over or take wild shots that are like turnovers but don’t show up as such on stat sheet.

 

[CL82]

If Jackson Played for Calhoun…​

We would likely hear the phrase “Dunk it! Dunk it you em epher!!”

 

[Huskybass]

Spears played like he wasn’t 100% but good job AJ. Calhoun had many lock down players and you might be bit young to remember players like Ricky Moore but you could also count on to protect the ball and score a bit too.
I think Hurley’s taking my advice already at Marquette, AJ had 23 minutes, with 3 turnovers. I’d like to see it go down to more like 20 but this is the right way to go - limit amount of turnovers by using bench.

You don't get it. Jackson will be in the game as many minutes as possible. Only foul trouble will limit his minutes.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Wow AJ is at bottom in points in this snapshot, like the very bottom… Making it all the more important he doesn‘t turn ball over or take wild shots that are like turnovers but don’t show up as such on stat sheet.

This is getting desperate and embarrassing.

 

[UCan3]

This is getting desperate and embarrassin

You don't get it. Jackson will be in the game as many minutes as possible. Only foul trouble will limit his minutes.

Well hold on chief, let’s not get carried away - both of you.

He played 23 minutes and was yanked after a couple bad plays against Marquette. Came into do some nice things - agreed.

Let’s see what happens on the round vs Creighton in what I expect will be a tighter game. I think we’ll see what’s up.

Creighton is a serious test, they don’t get much tougher. Aj peforms well there, I can simmer down on this thread and get on AJ bandwagon for a bit.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

Wow AJ is at bottom in points in this snapshot, like the very bottom… Making it all the more important he doesn‘t turn ball over or take wild shots that are like turnovers but don’t show up as such on stat sheet.

If we're going with completely irrelevant stats compared to the discussion, I'll take the one that shows he is first in rebounds

 

[REB1094]

To put it in context, there are 15 players in all of college basketball who are doing that

View attachment 83976

3 coming from the Big East. Some really good guards (or point forwards) in this conference

 

[tentoes4rings]

To put it in context, there are 15 players in all of college basketball who are doing that

View attachment 83976

So he’s tied for 3rd in Assist to TO ratio yet there’s still a group of people who say he makes all these bad turnovers. His turnovers look pretty bad when they occur but he doesn’t commit many. And the only reason he played 23 minutes the other night was foul trouble. Alleyne had a great scoring game and took two big charges the other night, but had zero assists or rebounds, while Andre had 4 and 5. Stats matter.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Well hold on chief, let’s not get carried away - both of you.

He played 23 minutes and was yanked after a couple bad plays against Marquette. Came into do some nice things - agreed.

Let’s see what happens on the round vs Creighton in what I expect will be a tighter game. I think we’ll see what’s up.

Creighton is a serious test, they don’t get much tougher. Aj peforms well there, I can simmer down on this thread and get on AJ bandwagon for a bit.

You made the argument that he turns over the ball at an alarming and unacceptable rate. You were provided data - season-long data - that actually demonstrates that he is among the 15 most elite players in college basketball in terms of his assist to turnover ratio. So you pivot to "well, among those 15 elite players he scores the least so I'm still right."

It's silly. You should have just said "welp, I guess I was wrong." But this is the Boneyard and conceding error is verboten so now it's "well, we'll see what happens in this next game, the 25 games they've played to date don't count."

I'm sure other people will take you up on your offer to revisit this but your act has been tired since you started posting a couple weeks ago so I'll pass.

 

[jayteeman]

If Jackson Played for Calhoun…​

I envision a relationship similar to what Parcells had with LT.

BP - I'm indebted to him because him and all the other players got me over the hump. Respect for competitive and toughness.
LT - BP will always be my guy. ... No matter what happens, he'll always be No. 1 on my list

 

[David 76]

Listen to the final 7 minutes of the Top Dogs podcast and you'll understand why he's been in a slump since the Xavier game on 12/31. They were the first team all year that played the same defense we saw at times last year. Give him 10 feet of space and dare him to try to score. Defenses are basically telling him that he sucks so bad that a wide open Jackson shot is better for them than a contested shot from Hawkins/Newton/Sanogo etc.

It's gotta be pretty damaging mentally to have that happen to you. Hurley needs to figure out ways to not put Jackson in those positions. Any time Jackson is camping out on the 3 point line it is a win for the defense. Put him in the paint and let him use his athleticism to grab rebounds. It's not that hard to make that simple change...

Agree! This has nested in his head and affected his defense too.

 

[UCan3]

You made the argument that he turns over the ball at an alarming and unacceptable rate. You were provided data - season-long data - that actually demonstrates that he is among the 15 most elite players in college basketball in terms of his assist to turnover ratio. So you pivot to "well, among those 15 elite players he scores the least so I'm still right."

It's silly. You should have just said "welp, I guess I was wrong." But this is the Boneyard and conceding error is verboten so now it's "well, we'll see what happens in this next game, the 25 games they've played to date don't count."

I'm sure other people will take you up on your offer to revisit this but your act has been tired since you started posting a couple weeks ago so I'll pass.

That stats seemed kind of “cherry picking” to make a point.
Also doesn’t take into account the low shooting percentage, lack of point production and other teams literally not feeling like they have to guard him…

Maybe I too will go ’cherry picking” and deem some players elite and see how he stacks up - I will take into account he is on the floor less than many of those other players you “arranged“ for comparison.

 

[husky429]

You made the argument that he turns over the ball at an alarming and unacceptable rate. You were provided data - season-long data - that actually demonstrates that he is among the 15 most elite players in college basketball in terms of his assist to turnover ratio. So you pivot to "well, among those 15 elite players he scores the least so I'm still right."

It's silly. You should have just said "welp, I guess I was wrong." But this is the Boneyard and conceding error is verboten so now it's "well, we'll see what happens in this next game, the 25 games they've played to date don't count."

I'm sure other people will take you up on your offer to revisit this but your act has been tired since you started posting a couple weeks ago so I'll pass.

I'd hire this guy as my Boneyard bad take attorney. I'm assuming you bill in 20 minute increments?

 

[husky429]

That stats seemed kind of “cherry picking” to make a point.
Also doesn’t take into account the low shooting percentage, lack of point production and other teams literally not feeling like they have to guard him…

Maybe I too will go ’cherry picking” and deem some players elite and see how he stacks up - I will take into account he is on the floor less than many of those other players you “arranged“ for comparison.

You: Andre commits turnovers at an alarming and unacceptable rate.

The Boneyard: Actually the stats prove he has one of the best AST:TO ratios in the country.

You: Cherry picked stats!

 

[UCan3]

I love how this thread has evolved… We all know there’s a problem with Andre’s play - dang even Hurley himself made a point to bring attention to it earlier this week. So the thought was rather than have constructive discussion on paths forward -Anyone criticizing Andre, is in the Ant—Andre crowd.

Now we’ve come full circle with posters saying he is in top 15 players at his position….

Hmm… All I can say is I hope to be pleasantly surprised tomorrow with an outstanding performance by Andre Tomorrow - on the road vs a solid team on a winning streak - true test.

 

[jibsey]

Andre’s offensive game is a high wire act, looks spectacular and is crucial at times but with that comes mistakes, bad shooting and turnovers which if he doesn’t limit can sink the team.But his defense is great and we have to accept the total package.

 

[PAHusky]

It's funny because everyone in this thread arguing is sort of right and sort of wrong.

AJ is an elite passer and, when he's on, probably the best on ball defender in college bball.

AJ also tends to lose his head for small stretches at a time in games, getting techs, turning the ball over, sloppy d, etc. He also can't score.

AJ, and Dan Hurley, need to figure out how to harness the athleticism and the beautiful passing, while limiting the boneheaded plays and covering up his total inability to shoot. Whether that means a quicker hook, or a longer leash, or bringing him off the bench, or what. I don't think either of them have adjusted to the mid-season completely yet, but it will be interesting to see how they do.

 

[husky429]

I love how this thread has evolved… We all know there’s a problem with Andre’s play - dang even Hurley himself made a point to bring attention to it earlier this week. So the thought was rather than have constructive discussion on paths forward -Anyone criticizing Andre, is in the Ant—Andre crowd.

Now we’ve come full circle with posters saying he is in top 15 players at his position….

Hmm… All I can say is I hope to be pleasantly surprised tomorrow with an outstanding performance by Andre Tomorrow - on the road vs a solid team on a winning streak - true test.

My wife teaches an undergrad course in logic every fall. Do you mind if I send her this thread so her students can practice identifying informal fallacies?

 

[UCan3]

My wife teaches an undergrad course in logic every fall. Do you mind if I send her this thread so her students can practice identifying informal fallacies?

Now there’s a great idea! I think there are lots of good examples. I’ve been trying to pull everyone back into the fold but hey, like I said tomorrow‘s game and the few we have left, we‘ll see how this shakes out. I am rooting for AJ and yes those too who mIght need to come off the bench to help us win games.

 

[husky429]

Now there’s a great idea! I think there are lots of good examples. I’ve been trying to pull everyone back into the fold but hey, like I said tomorrow‘s game and the few we have left, we‘ll see how this shakes out. I am rooting for AJ and yes those too who mIght need to come off the bench to help us win games.

Thanks, man. She's going to get a kick out of this and she doesn't even like basketball.

 

[UCan3]

One of my favorite in the thread is where we had a poster saying your couldn’t say AJ sometimes makes dumb passes/plays without someone saying he’s “dumb.”

“I guess no one told Creighton’wing of this Boneyard rule LOL this is his quote from today’s paper:

"We emphasize it a lot, especially because we have (Ryan) Kalkbrenner back there to alter shots," Creighton wing Baylor Scheierman said. "So we don't really need to strip or get dumb fouls."

 

[Rico444]

AJ, and Dan Hurley, need to figure out how to harness the athleticism and the beautiful passing, while limiting the boneheaded plays and covering up his total inability to shoot. Whether that means a quicker hook, or a longer leash, or bringing him off the bench, or what. I don't think either of them have adjusted to the mid-season completely yet, but it will be interesting to see how they do.

His overall turnovers are low, though. A quote unquote "boneheaded" turnover does not count more than a quote unquote "regular" turnover. Unless you're suggesting that every player that ever turns the ball over should be benched, I'm not sure that's the right plan for Andre.

 

[Umami Zen]

Discussion about turnovers in thread motivated me to research definition of turnovers .. Source is Wikipedia

"In basketball ,a turnover occurs when a team loses possession of the ball to the opposing team before a player takes a shot at their team's basket. This can result from a player getting the ball stolen, stepping out of bounds, having a pass intercepted, committing a violation (such as a double dribble, traveling, shot clock violation ,three second violation/five second violation), or committing an offensive foul (including personal, flagrant, and technical fouls)."
Hoop Addict says.. "Two types of turnovers.. Forced and unforced.. Forced is as a result of good defense. Unforced is not a result of good defense . The offensive player simply made a mistake, a miscalculation, or is unaware of what's going on."

Went through this exercise for my own education and perhaps it might help others.

I would suggest that Andre's TO numbers --which have improved this year-- are occasionally influenced by others and not himself alone. The teammate who can't catch a catchable pass/fumbles it out of bounds.. TO to Andre..

 

[PAHusky]

His overall turnovers are low, though. A quote unquote "boneheaded" turnover does not count more than a quote unquote "regular" turnover. Unless you're suggesting that every player that ever turns the ball over should be benched, I'm not sure that's the right plan for Andre.

His overall turnover average, yes. But the stats don’t account for timing. The often team goes as he goes, and it seems like he turns it over/gets a tech/overextends on defense at particularly untimely points. Hence why a shorter leash may be necessary