I couldn’t find my last post about using clingan 5 Adama 4

[superjohn]

I’m not arguing that Sanogo is a better rim protecter than Clingan, but there’s more to defense than blocking shots. Is the defense better if instead of a modern 4 at PF(Karaban/Jackson), we play a traditional 5? The defense with Sanogo playing more minutes at center is number 4 on Kenpom, why does one bad game justify removing him for someone you think might be better?

I clearly wasn't talking about just blocking shots, Clingan shuts down things near the basket. He's hugely impactful when he's in there and for some reason Hurley has gone away from him in Big East play where we've struggled more than we did when Hurley was using him more.

You asked about Sanogo playing on the perimeter, he already does that. He's constantly going out to the perimeter and then dropping back. It works for the most part but last game it was exploited, he was constantly caught in no man's land and Xavier got layup after layup.

Coaches are adjusting to what we do, let's see how Hurley counters that against coaches who have done really well against him. Cooley is one of the coaches who has owned Hurley, we are far superior in talent to Providence this year. I hope we exploit our advantages over them, DC being one of them.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I clearly wasn't talking about just blocking shots, Clingan shuts down things near the basket. He's hugely impactful when he's in there and for some reason Hurley has gone away from him in Big East play where we've struggled more than we did when Hurley was using him more.

You asked about Sanogo playing on the perimeter, he already does that. He's constantly going out to the perimeter and then dropping back. It works for the most part but last game it was exploited, he was constantly caught in no man's land and Xavier got layup after layup.

Coaches are adjusting to what we do, let's see how Hurley counters that against coaches who have done really well against him. Cooley is one of the coaches who has owned Hurley, we are far superior in talent to Providence this year. I hope we exploit our advantages over them, DC being one of them.

Alright then I’ll remind you Sanogos ability to guard on the perimeter is incredibly valuable for a modern center and something Clingan likely can’t do as well. It gets back to my point about defense being more than just rim protection. Again we have a top 5 defense with Sanogo at center, his defense can’t be holding us back.

 

[Malamute]

I’m not arguing that Sanogo is a better rim protecter than Clingan, but there’s more to defense than blocking shots. Is the defense better if instead of a modern 4 at PF(Karaban/Jackson), we play a traditional 5? The defense with Sanogo playing more minutes at center is number 4 on Kenpom, why does one bad game justify removing him for someone you think might be better?

As SCRUTINER said above:

“Something has changed dramatically in the last three games. Maybe it's the quality of the opponents (Georgetown?) but none of our nine P6 opponents shot better than 46.9% on 2's until Georgetown went for 50%, Villanova 58.6% and Xavier 61.5%”

Need to adjust in league games as teams game plan better. No need to toss out what we are doing but adding layers will help maintain such a ranking.

 

[superjohn]

Alright then I’ll remind you Sanogos ability to guard on the perimeter is incredibly valuable for a modern center and something Clingan likely can’t do as well. It gets back to my point about defense being more than just rim protection. Again we have a top 5 defense with Sanogo at center, his defense can’t be holding us back.

Of course I don't want Clingan guarding on the perimeter. He shuts down the lane which is hugeley valuable. You asked who would guard out on the perimeter and I said Sanogo is already doing it. You say Sanogo's perimeter defense is incredibly valuable. It seems you've answered your own question.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Something has changed dramatically in the last three games. Maybe it's the quality of the opponents (Georgetown?) but none of our nine P6 opponents shot better than 46.9% on 2's until Georgetown went for 50%, Villanova 58.6% and Xavier 61.5%.

Maybe I'm reading the comments differently, but I don't think people are saying you need to play two bigs together in all games, and even for long periods of time, just when the game situation calls for it or to make the other team change IT'S strategy instead of us always adjusting to theirs. Make them uncomfortable and have to deal with a 7'2" shot blocker more than 7 minutes a game.

Coaching. We are struggling to stop players off the dribble. Sanogo hedges and sprints back on the screen, while Clingan plays drop coverage.

I would prefer drop coverage because sanogo been late getting back and the team is in rotation because UConn can’t keep the opponents guard in front.

The answer isn’t too bigs. Those days are over. Every coach at a high level from college to pro hoops exploits double big lineups. Unless we are fine giving up uncontested 3s you can play two centers at the same time. Sanogo is going to be guarding a player who can shoot and will be out of rebounding position.

 

[superjohn]

Coaching. We are struggling to stop players off the dribble. Sanogo hedges and sprints back on the screen, while Clingan plays drop coverage.

I would prefer drop coverage because sanogo been late getting back and the team is in rotation because UConn can’t keep the opponents guard in front.

The answer isn’t too bigs. Those days are over. Every coach at a high level from college to pro hoops exploits double big lineups. Unless we are fine giving up uncontested 3s you can play two centers at the same time. Sanogo is going to be guarding a player who can shoot and will be out of rebounding position.

Nobody is advocating to use it the whole game but this idea that we would get destroyed defensively and that it can't be employed for 4-5 minutes when two of your best players are bigs is nonsense. We aren't playing against the Warriors. We just played a team who plays 2 bigs all game and they beat us despite UConn being far more talented. Arizona plays 2 bigs all game and they may be the best team in the country.

 

[superjohn]

Purdue currently playing two bigs at the same time.

 

[navery12]

Purdue currently playing two bigs at the same time.

Who is the 2nd big you're talking about? I'm assuming Forst but have no idea what point you'd think your making by bringing him up

 

[superjohn]

Who is the 2nd big you're talking about?

Furst

 

[navery12]

Furst

I don't really see what point you think you're making here. That's like arguing that playing Samson Johnson next to Sanogo or Clingan is playing 2 bigs, which is a lineup 100% of the board wants to see

 

[superjohn]

I don't really see what point you think you're making here. That's like arguing that playing Samson Johnson next to Sanogo or Clingan is playing 2 bigs, which is a lineup 100% of the board wants to see

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

What does Samson Johnson have to do with it? He's not available to us and we aren't getting any rim protection with Sanogo and Karaban. while we have a 7'2 rim protector who is getting a tick under 10 minutes per game in Big East play.

Down goes Purdue!

 

[PAHusky]

Nobody is advocating to use it the whole game but this idea that we would get destroyed defensively and that it can't be employed for 4-5 minutes when two of your best players are bigs is nonsense. We aren't playing against the Warriors. We just played a team who plays 2 bigs all game and they beat us despite UConn being far more talented. Arizona plays 2 bigs all game and they may be the best team in the country.

But Sanogo isn’t good at guarding anyone on the perimeter. It’s a waste of his defensive talents and it means he’s going to get dinged with a million foul calls.

It’s not necessarily two bigs that’s a bad idea. It’s that both AS and DC are similar bigs - they’re more traditional 5’s who play best in the post and matchup defensively against the same type of player (and not well at all against stretch 5 types). Listing other teams that play a traditional center and one who can stretch the four is defeating your own point. It just doesn’t make sense overall you play them together.

Hurley seemed to have no problem playing two centers last year either so it’s not like he’s completely adverse to the idea

 

[PAHusky]

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

What would we gain for 4-5 minutes offensively from playing them together? This is what I don’t get. We’d have the spacing issues from last year all over again, and the biggest offensive issues we’ve had this year have come when we’ve had a size advantage inside and start forcing the offense. What’s the benefit you’re advocating for here?

 

[navery12]

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

But what I'm saying is that playing Edey and Furst together is not like playing Sanogo and Clingan together, it's like playing Sanogo and Johnson together. Something we should a lot of. Edey and Furst start together and Furst has become a much better perimeter defender this year to make that pairing possible.

I'm good with a handful of possessions for Sanogo and Clingan in extreme circumstances, it just doesn't solve any problems and hurts our defense and offense

 

[superjohn]

But what I'm saying is that playing Edey and Furst together is not like playing Sanogo and Clingan together, it's like playing Sanogo and Johnson together. Something we should a lot of. Edey and Furst start together and Furst has become a much better perimeter defender this year to make that pairing possible.

I'm good with a handful of possessions for Sanogo and Clingan in extreme circumstances, it just doesn't solve any problems and hurts our defense and offense

So Furst is Samson Johnson? Again, Samson Johnson isn't avaliable to us...neither is Caleb Furst. Donovan Clingan is available to us.

 

[navery12]

So Furst is Samson Johnson? Again, Samson Johnson isn't avaliable to us...neither is Caleb Furst. Donovan Clingan is available to us.

Yes that's what I'm saying, not a perfect comparison but that's who Furst is most comparable to on the UConn team. It's not a relevant comparison to playing Clingan and Sanogo together

 

[superjohn]

But Sanogo isn’t good at guarding anyone on the perimeter. It’s a waste of his defensive talents and it means he’s going to get dinged with a million foul calls.

It’s not necessarily two bigs that’s a bad idea. It’s that both AS and DC are similar bigs - they’re more traditional 5’s who play best in the post and matchup defensively against the same type of player (and not well at all against stretch 5 types). Listing other teams that play a traditional center and one who can stretch the four is defeating your own point. It just doesn’t make sense overall you play them together.

Hurley seemed to have no problem playing two centers last year either so it’s not like he’s completely adverse to the idea

Then get Sanogo off the perimeter defenively all the time and start playing DC a lot more. With the way we're playing (scheming) defense these good coaches in the Big East are going to exploit us having no rim protection.

The only guy who stretches the floor out of Nunge, Freemantle, Edey, Furst, Ballo, and Tubelis is Nunge.

 

[superjohn]

Yes that's what I'm saying, not a perfect comparison but that's who Furst is most comparable to on the UConn team. It's not a relevant comparison to playing Clingan and Sanogo together

Dude, no players are the same. Furst shoots less threes than Sanogo and shoots them at a worse percentage than Sanogo. Neither Edey or Clingan shoot any.

Samson isn't avaliable to us and we still don't know how he'll play for us when he plays.

 

[navery12]

Dude, no players are the same. Furst shoots less threes than Sanogo and shoots them at a worse percentage than Sanogo. Neither Edey or Clingan shoot any.

Samson isn't avaliable to us and we still don't know how he'll play for us when he plays.

Exactly, so acting like Purdue playing Furst and Edey together means UConn should play Sanogo and Clingan together is stupid

 

[superjohn]

Exactly, so acting like Purdue playing Furst and Edey together means UConn should play Sanogo and Clingan together is stupid

What?

You're not making any sense.

 

[navery12]

What?

You're not making any sense.

You said no players are the same and I'm saying I agree, so using Purdue's lineups with Furst and Edey as some gotcha for why UConn should play Clingan and Sanogo together is stupid

 

[Huskyforlife]

You said no players are the same and I'm saying I agree, so using Purdue's lineups with Furst and Edey as some gotcha for why UConn should play Clingan and Sanogo together is stupid

Purdue would be so much better with Alex at the 4, which makes this conversation even funnier.

 

[uc1990]

You know how we would know if DC and Sanogo can be effective playing together… try it for a few minutes a game. Then we actually discuss it. I find it strange that we haven’t seen it(except for less than a minute I think in one game?) not sure how some can be so insistent that it wouldn’t work when we don’t know but every seemed to agree best players we have include both of them.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Who are these fleet footed 4’s? If they exist then perhaps that is not when you use it. Ok to trust AS to chase guards and small forwards 30 feet from the hoop but can’t trust him to move his feet on a power forward 10 feet from the hoop? How many times is acceptable to get beat off the dribble like X did. AS not a rim protector. On Offense it has possibilities like discouraging the AS double team with DC lurking and doing his thing. We have not been driving to the rim with one big in so what are we clogging with two if we are not using the space now? Obviously (I think) Danny would deploy if it was ready but no doubt they are working on it and it will come out eventually. 40 minutes split not enough. Figure it out as an option.

Who are these fleet footed 4’s? If they exist then perhaps that is not when you use it.

nailed it!
im kinda disappointed on all this. i thought that by now, in a game where donno mostly just hung around the stripe flipping j's with adama underneath, that i'd see us mess them up on a play where adama is at the stripe with his back to the rim, and no look over the shoulder pass it high to the basket where donno would catch and smash it. crisscross. after that play, they wouldn't know whether to whizz or go shopping.

i guess that i'll have to wait awhile for broad enlightenment on his shooting prowess. right now, he'd shredd 8 footers. bunnies. not turn around j's, not dipsy doodle hook things, just plain old face to the hoop, catch, rise, release. splash.

 

[PAHusky]

You know how we would know if DC and Sanogo can be effective playing together… try it for a few minutes a game. Then we actually discuss it. I find it strange that we haven’t seen it(except for less than a minute I think in one game?) not sure how some can be so insistent that it wouldn’t work when we don’t know but every seemed to agree best players we have include both of them.

I don’t agree with the idea at all, as clearly evidenced in this thread, but I’m pretty sure DH has considered it at least and has provably run that lineup out in practice. If he hasn’t, and they haven’t in games, sort of telling.