I couldn’t find my last post about using clingan 5 Adama 4

[Scrutineer]

Because Xavier was already playing off all our non-shooters without having 2 bigs on the floor. And Xavier did not outrebound us, it was 38-31 in favor of UConn and we had 13 offensive rebounds

We only out rebounded them because we had 39 misses and 13 offensive rebounds. They had had 24 misses and 4 offensive rebounds.
Chucking up desperation 3's in the last two minutes didn't help.

 

[Dutch Boyd]

The Boneyard really needs to be shutdown for a few days after a loss. How do these suggestions keep getting worse?

I’ve been up north snowboarding since Saturday after the game. Haven’t been on since until now. I knew this place would be a meltdown after a tough loss to a good team. Lol

 

[navery12]

We only out rebounded them because we had 39 misses and 13 offensive rebounds. They had had 24 misses and 4 offensive rebounds.
Chucking up desperation 3's in the last two minutes didn't help.

Exactly, UConn got 33% of the available offensive rebounds and Xavier got 17% of theirs, we outrebounded them on both ends of the court

 

[navery12]

@navery12 No one is suggesting benching Jackson. The young man is a defensive highlight reel. I don't criticize players, they're all developing and deserve our support. In case you missed it, in basketball you need to score quickly and consistently. Having a lightning quick driving guard start the game to dictate pace and dish to the paint and the wings can fix some of that. If we had scored our team average it was a W.

You suggested we have a starting lineup of Hawkins, Diarra, Karaban, Sanogo, Clingan. In case you missed it, that's 5 players and none of them are Jackson. That's never going to happen, and spending a single second debating it is stupid

 

[1999GoodSon]

You suggested we have a starting lineup of Hawkins, Diarra, Karaban, Sanogo, Clingan. In case you missed it, that's 5 players and none of them are Jackson. That's never going to happen, and spending a single second debating it is stupid

You seem to have really dug in on this. Not starting someone isn't benching them. In your view, he's benching Clingan then right? That young man has the highest ceiling on the team. At his age and size, he already has great hands and a natural feel for the game. I'm not a Johnny come lately to this topic. He dominated against Iowa State. His 74% FG percentage says he should be on the floor. But of course this being the internet, you'll probably think this is also ridiculous

 

[navery12]

You seem to have really dug in on this. Not starting someone isn't benching them. In your view, he's benching Clingan then right? That young man has the highest ceiling on the team. At his age and size, he already has great hands and a natural feel for the game. I'm not a Johnny come lately to this topic. He dominated against Iowa State. His 74% FG percentage says he should be on the floor. But of course this being the internet, you'll probably think this is also ridiculous

No because Clingan isn't in the starting lineup. But for your sake I'll stop using the term bench and just say not starting. Not starting Andre Jackson is a stupid idea, and spending a single second dreaming up scenarios for it to happen is a waste of everyone's time. It's never going to happen.

And yes, I do think starting Clingan is ridiculous. We definitely need to find more minutes for him and get him back to his 15 a game, but not by starting him next to Sanogo

 

[Jay-Bone]

I mean, yeah basically. We've been really good on defense all year so there's no need to overreact and make the huge lineup changes you're suggesting over 1 game where it was bad. You're making my point for me

Ok, player. lol

 

[Scrutineer]

I mean, yeah basically. We've been really good on defense all year so there's no need to overreact and make the huge lineup changes you're suggesting over 1 game where it was bad. You're making my point for me

Something has changed dramatically in the last three games. Maybe it's the quality of the opponents (Georgetown?) but none of our nine P6 opponents shot better than 46.9% on 2's until Georgetown went for 50%, Villanova 58.6% and Xavier 61.5%.

Maybe I'm reading the comments differently, but I don't think people are saying you need to play two bigs together in all games, and even for long periods of time, just when the game situation calls for it or to make the other team change IT'S strategy instead of us always adjusting to theirs. Make them uncomfortable and have to deal with a 7'2" shot blocker more than 7 minutes a game.

 

[PAHusky]

LMAO, we haven't done it yet. The definition of insanity is to keep this lineup and keep letting 2 bigs feast on us. Wahab and Akok, Nunge and Freemantle, even Dixon and Slater. Ajax, Karaban and Newton are not good enough offensively for 4 out. Nova is probably the only team that can go 5 out. Let em drive and Clingan will clean them up. Our offense may stagnate when forcing it inside because Sanogo is double and triple teamed because they don't need to defend Ajax hanging out at the perimeter and Sanogo doesn't pass out. Size at the 4 is a huge issue because Karaban is so easily bullied.

A team like Arizona who plays two really good bigs will obliterate us. Its not sustainable if we want to go all the way.

Why not try it?

Every pair of bigs you mentioned has the foot speed and shooting range to play as a 4. Neither DC nor AS right now can guard mobile 4’s. Our offense is awful forcing the ball into one guy with a size advantage in the post, how is it getting better with two? The spacing that’s so much better this year isn’t just because our shooters are better, it’s also because we’re playing 3 guys who can shoot instead of two on the floor now (AJax being a unicorn and AS). Putting them on the floor together weakens us defensively, makes us too predictable and crowded on offense and would slow down our transition game, which is great. What is the point?

 

[Malamute]

Who are these fleet footed 4’s? If they exist then perhaps that is not when you use it. Ok to trust AS to chase guards and small forwards 30 feet from the hoop but can’t trust him to move his feet on a power forward 10 feet from the hoop? How many times is acceptable to get beat off the dribble like X did. AS not a rim protector. On Offense it has possibilities like discouraging the AS double team with DC lurking and doing his thing. We have not been driving to the rim with one big in so what are we clogging with two if we are not using the space now? Obviously (I think) Danny would deploy if it was ready but no doubt they are working on it and it will come out eventually. 40 minutes split not enough. Figure it out as an option.

 

[superjohn]

Every pair of bigs you mentioned has the foot speed and shooting range to play as a 4. Neither DC nor AS right now can guard mobile 4’s. Our offense is awful forcing the ball into one guy with a size advantage in the post, how is it getting better with two? The spacing that’s so much better this year isn’t just because our shooters are better, it’s also because we’re playing 3 guys who can shoot instead of two on the floor now (AJax being a unicorn and AS). Putting them on the floor together weakens us defensively, makes us too predictable and crowded on offense and would slow down our transition game, which is great. What is the point?

Weakens us defensively? Don't have the footspeed? Nunge had the circus layup where he got around Clingan but Nunge is slow as hell, Freemantle is pretty slow footed, Wahab is slow, and Akok is a statue on the perimeter.

Xavier was getting rim runs all day, 41 points off of layups.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Just out of curiosity. If we play them at the same time, who is at the high post? Cause Clingan isn’t a threat more than 2 feet from the hoop, and Sanogo isn’t as effective when he’s taking 12 foot contested hooks, and we know his limitations as a playmaker. Both players are at their best when they catch the ball on the low block, and they can’t share it at the same time.

And then defensively, who’s guarding on the perimeter? Most teams play 4 out, which means Sanogo is gonna be jumping into shooters even more often. Sanogo doesn’t have the slowest feet, but do we want him constantly getting switched onto guards more often?

 

[superjohn]

Just out of curiosity. If we play them at the same time, who is at the high post? Cause Clingan isn’t a threat more than 2 feet from the hoop, and Sanogo isn’t as effective when he’s taking 12 foot contested hooks, and we know his limitations as a playmaker. Both players are at their best when they catch the ball on the low block, and they can’t share it at the same time.

And then defensively, who’s guarding on the perimeter? Most teams play 4 out, which means Sanogo is gonna be jumping into shooters even more often. Sanogo doesn’t have the slowest feet, but do we want him constantly getting switched onto guards more often?

Sanogo is already guarding on the perimeter. In 120 minutes of Big East play Sanogo has 0 blocks and he doesn't even seem to be altering shots. Karaban doesn't alter and block shots either. I hate to keep harping on it but we have a 7'2 guy that people are scared to shoot over. We're great when we turn teams over and get to running. Clingan altering everything at the rim and blocking shots are as good as turnovers (he always keeps it inbounds.) They get the team going the other way in transition where they are pretty deadly.

 

[JB75]

Obviously Clingan should’ve played more on Saturday but I’ll give Danny a pass considering we were undefeated and he wanted to stick with their normal rotations , but next time we are down in second half please put big man in for more than 7 mins. I’ll give him a pass on this one , just don’t do it again

 

[Huskyforlife]

Sanogo is already guarding on the perimeter. In 120 minutes of Big East play Sanogo has 0 blocks and he doesn't even seem to be altering shots. Karaban doesn't alter and block shots either. I hate to keep harping on it but we have a 7'2 guy that people are scared to shoot over. We're great when we turn teams over and get to running. Clingan altering everything at the rim and blocking shots are as good as turnovers (he always keeps it inbounds.) They get the team going the other way in transition where they are pretty deadly.

I’m not arguing that Sanogo is a better rim protecter than Clingan, but there’s more to defense than blocking shots. Is the defense better if instead of a modern 4 at PF(Karaban/Jackson), we play a traditional 5? The defense with Sanogo playing more minutes at center is number 4 on Kenpom, why does one bad game justify removing him for someone you think might be better?

 

[superjohn]

I’m not arguing that Sanogo is a better rim protecter than Clingan, but there’s more to defense than blocking shots. Is the defense better if instead of a modern 4 at PF(Karaban/Jackson), we play a traditional 5? The defense with Sanogo playing more minutes at center is number 4 on Kenpom, why does one bad game justify removing him for someone you think might be better?

I clearly wasn't talking about just blocking shots, Clingan shuts down things near the basket. He's hugely impactful when he's in there and for some reason Hurley has gone away from him in Big East play where we've struggled more than we did when Hurley was using him more.

You asked about Sanogo playing on the perimeter, he already does that. He's constantly going out to the perimeter and then dropping back. It works for the most part but last game it was exploited, he was constantly caught in no man's land and Xavier got layup after layup.

Coaches are adjusting to what we do, let's see how Hurley counters that against coaches who have done really well against him. Cooley is one of the coaches who has owned Hurley, we are far superior in talent to Providence this year. I hope we exploit our advantages over them, DC being one of them.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I clearly wasn't talking about just blocking shots, Clingan shuts down things near the basket. He's hugely impactful when he's in there and for some reason Hurley has gone away from him in Big East play where we've struggled more than we did when Hurley was using him more.

You asked about Sanogo playing on the perimeter, he already does that. He's constantly going out to the perimeter and then dropping back. It works for the most part but last game it was exploited, he was constantly caught in no man's land and Xavier got layup after layup.

Coaches are adjusting to what we do, let's see how Hurley counters that against coaches who have done really well against him. Cooley is one of the coaches who has owned Hurley, we are far superior in talent to Providence this year. I hope we exploit our advantages over them, DC being one of them.

Alright then I’ll remind you Sanogos ability to guard on the perimeter is incredibly valuable for a modern center and something Clingan likely can’t do as well. It gets back to my point about defense being more than just rim protection. Again we have a top 5 defense with Sanogo at center, his defense can’t be holding us back.

 

[Malamute]

I’m not arguing that Sanogo is a better rim protecter than Clingan, but there’s more to defense than blocking shots. Is the defense better if instead of a modern 4 at PF(Karaban/Jackson), we play a traditional 5? The defense with Sanogo playing more minutes at center is number 4 on Kenpom, why does one bad game justify removing him for someone you think might be better?

As SCRUTINER said above:

“Something has changed dramatically in the last three games. Maybe it's the quality of the opponents (Georgetown?) but none of our nine P6 opponents shot better than 46.9% on 2's until Georgetown went for 50%, Villanova 58.6% and Xavier 61.5%”

Need to adjust in league games as teams game plan better. No need to toss out what we are doing but adding layers will help maintain such a ranking.

 

[superjohn]

Alright then I’ll remind you Sanogos ability to guard on the perimeter is incredibly valuable for a modern center and something Clingan likely can’t do as well. It gets back to my point about defense being more than just rim protection. Again we have a top 5 defense with Sanogo at center, his defense can’t be holding us back.

Of course I don't want Clingan guarding on the perimeter. He shuts down the lane which is hugeley valuable. You asked who would guard out on the perimeter and I said Sanogo is already doing it. You say Sanogo's perimeter defense is incredibly valuable. It seems you've answered your own question.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Something has changed dramatically in the last three games. Maybe it's the quality of the opponents (Georgetown?) but none of our nine P6 opponents shot better than 46.9% on 2's until Georgetown went for 50%, Villanova 58.6% and Xavier 61.5%.

Maybe I'm reading the comments differently, but I don't think people are saying you need to play two bigs together in all games, and even for long periods of time, just when the game situation calls for it or to make the other team change IT'S strategy instead of us always adjusting to theirs. Make them uncomfortable and have to deal with a 7'2" shot blocker more than 7 minutes a game.

Coaching. We are struggling to stop players off the dribble. Sanogo hedges and sprints back on the screen, while Clingan plays drop coverage.

I would prefer drop coverage because sanogo been late getting back and the team is in rotation because UConn can’t keep the opponents guard in front.

The answer isn’t too bigs. Those days are over. Every coach at a high level from college to pro hoops exploits double big lineups. Unless we are fine giving up uncontested 3s you can play two centers at the same time. Sanogo is going to be guarding a player who can shoot and will be out of rebounding position.

 

[superjohn]

Coaching. We are struggling to stop players off the dribble. Sanogo hedges and sprints back on the screen, while Clingan plays drop coverage.

I would prefer drop coverage because sanogo been late getting back and the team is in rotation because UConn can’t keep the opponents guard in front.

The answer isn’t too bigs. Those days are over. Every coach at a high level from college to pro hoops exploits double big lineups. Unless we are fine giving up uncontested 3s you can play two centers at the same time. Sanogo is going to be guarding a player who can shoot and will be out of rebounding position.

Nobody is advocating to use it the whole game but this idea that we would get destroyed defensively and that it can't be employed for 4-5 minutes when two of your best players are bigs is nonsense. We aren't playing against the Warriors. We just played a team who plays 2 bigs all game and they beat us despite UConn being far more talented. Arizona plays 2 bigs all game and they may be the best team in the country.

 

[superjohn]

Purdue currently playing two bigs at the same time.

 

[navery12]

Purdue currently playing two bigs at the same time.

Who is the 2nd big you're talking about? I'm assuming Forst but have no idea what point you'd think your making by bringing him up

 

[superjohn]

Who is the 2nd big you're talking about?

Furst

 

[navery12]

Furst

I don't really see what point you think you're making here. That's like arguing that playing Samson Johnson next to Sanogo or Clingan is playing 2 bigs, which is a lineup 100% of the board wants to see

 

[superjohn]

I don't really see what point you think you're making here. That's like arguing that playing Samson Johnson next to Sanogo or Clingan is playing 2 bigs, which is a lineup 100% of the board wants to see

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

What does Samson Johnson have to do with it? He's not available to us and we aren't getting any rim protection with Sanogo and Karaban. while we have a 7'2 rim protector who is getting a tick under 10 minutes per game in Big East play.

Down goes Purdue!

 

[PAHusky]

Nobody is advocating to use it the whole game but this idea that we would get destroyed defensively and that it can't be employed for 4-5 minutes when two of your best players are bigs is nonsense. We aren't playing against the Warriors. We just played a team who plays 2 bigs all game and they beat us despite UConn being far more talented. Arizona plays 2 bigs all game and they may be the best team in the country.

But Sanogo isn’t good at guarding anyone on the perimeter. It’s a waste of his defensive talents and it means he’s going to get dinged with a million foul calls.

It’s not necessarily two bigs that’s a bad idea. It’s that both AS and DC are similar bigs - they’re more traditional 5’s who play best in the post and matchup defensively against the same type of player (and not well at all against stretch 5 types). Listing other teams that play a traditional center and one who can stretch the four is defeating your own point. It just doesn’t make sense overall you play them together.

Hurley seemed to have no problem playing two centers last year either so it’s not like he’s completely adverse to the idea

 

[PAHusky]

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

What would we gain for 4-5 minutes offensively from playing them together? This is what I don’t get. We’d have the spacing issues from last year all over again, and the biggest offensive issues we’ve had this year have come when we’ve had a size advantage inside and start forcing the offense. What’s the benefit you’re advocating for here?

 

[navery12]

I'm making the point that we can play 2 bigs for 4-5 minutes together and our defense won't fall apart. We have several posters who say we can't do it and that nobody does it in modern basketball, you seem to be one of those people. I just named the team who beat us who does it and two of the best teams in the country who do it.

But what I'm saying is that playing Edey and Furst together is not like playing Sanogo and Clingan together, it's like playing Sanogo and Johnson together. Something we should a lot of. Edey and Furst start together and Furst has become a much better perimeter defender this year to make that pairing possible.

I'm good with a handful of possessions for Sanogo and Clingan in extreme circumstances, it just doesn't solve any problems and hurts our defense and offense

 

[superjohn]

But what I'm saying is that playing Edey and Furst together is not like playing Sanogo and Clingan together, it's like playing Sanogo and Johnson together. Something we should a lot of. Edey and Furst start together and Furst has become a much better perimeter defender this year to make that pairing possible.

I'm good with a handful of possessions for Sanogo and Clingan in extreme circumstances, it just doesn't solve any problems and hurts our defense and offense

So Furst is Samson Johnson? Again, Samson Johnson isn't avaliable to us...neither is Caleb Furst. Donovan Clingan is available to us.