I believe Fishy has been right all along | Page 3 | The Boneyard

I believe Fishy has been right all along

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I love posts like this. BC is a great athletics program because other people that you've invented think they are. BC has been decidedly mediocre in the ACC in football, and since they fired Al Skinner (and it's not hard to see how that happened), they've been an utter disaster. There is absolutely nothing impressive about BC athletics in any sport that anyone cares about.

Ok, if you believe I've " invented " my travel experiences to ACC games, you've convinced yourself of that assessment, and so thats that, I guess. Far be it for me to attempt to open a mind that seems permanently tied to their own created assessment of ACC venues, fan bases there, and what hundreds of ACC fans my wife and I have met think of BC, absent the 1 year in football, and the last 2 years in basketball. Its ok, no problem. We both know what we know based upon our own personal experiences, And neither is required nor obligated to alter that asssessment if they're not amenable to it..
 
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And Illinois. And maybe Northwestern. Maybe, maybe Michigan.
Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, seem doable for yes votes.. Northwestern too, but it'd be a bit harder with Northwestern, as Northwestern sees themselves as a hoi poloi private Univ, and so they could be a challenge to get their vote for Uconn, imo. Michigan State could be a yes vote however, imo.
 
The P5 combatants all survived, all got stronger financially and now they're consolidating power, access and counting the piles of cash. If anyone thinks they're concerned about throwing the velvet rope in front of UConn, BYU or Cincinnati, they're not.

Unless the Big 12 suddenly needs to get bigger - and they seem determined to stay at ten until Texas blows them up - this round of expansion has settled. There's a lack of movable parts, the networks have put away the checkbooks, etc.

So here we sit - a $65M athletic program fresh off of yet another pair of hoop championships who has been equally snakebit by bad timing, bad luck and the misfortune of having regional rivals who'd rather not have to deal with UConn on a level field. It's insane.
So in your opinion what happens next? UConn is going to be at a competitive disadavantage financially, if they have to troop the status quo for ten years. It is hard to see them surviving that long in the current set up. Do we scale back athletics?
 
So in your opinion what happens next? UConn is going to be at a competitive disadavantage financially, if they have to troop the status quo for ten years. It is hard to see them surviving that long in the current set up. Do we scale back athletics?

I truly don't know.

This is an especially bad spot for UConn. The last two moves in realignment were murderous - the Big Ten expansion that ultimately caused Big East to implode and then the ACC's grant of rights. We lost our conference and then had the status quo frozen into place.

Most of the schools in the AAC and MWC are already used to not making any money and their athletic departments are scaled to size. We have a huge athletic department that will see dramatic increases in costs intersecting with dramatic decreases in revenue.

Eventually, we either get out or scale back.

Long-term, anyone not in the P5 is done. In a very short period of time, they've taken all of the television money, all of the bowls, most of the playoff money and are starting to build their own rules and enforcement. Anyone who thinks they won't eventually come for the hoop tourney cash isn't paying attention.
 
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I truly don't know.

This is an especially bad spot for UConn. The last two moves in realignment were murderous - the Big Ten expansion that ultimately caused Big East to implode and then the ACC's grant of rights. We lost our conference and then had the status quo frozen into place.

Most of the schools in the AAC and MWC are already used to not making any money and their athletic departments are scaled to size. We have a huge athletic department that will see dramatic increases in costs intersecting with dramatic decreases in revenue.

Eventually, we either get out or scale back.

Long-term, anyone not in the P5 is done. In a very short period of time, they've taken all of the television money, all of the bowls, most of the playoff money and are starting to build their own rules and enforcement. Anyone who thinks they won't eventually come for the hoop tourney cash isn't paying attention.

Fishy - I have been saying this all along but, the naysayers tell me it will never happen because "they will ruin what has become a special event with the ability for underdogs like Butler to potentially win a championship".

My response has been that they don't care about Butler, all they care about is dollars. Granted, they might not get a deal worth billions like the current deal with CBS, TBS, TNT etc. etc. but it won't matter. They can create their own tournament using the P5 conferences & adding the Big East & A-10 if they wanted to and get a very healthy contract from someone that they won't have to share with 300+ other schools.

Now, the response to this from the naysayers is that they will end up in litigation because they are precluding schools from winning a "national championship". Again, IMO, I don't think any such litigation has a chance at being successful. The tournament they create can be called anything. It doesn't have to be called the "National Championship" They can call it the "P5 + the Big East & A-10 Championship" if they want to. What difference does it make? Remember, at one time the NIT was viewed as the "national championship" tournament. The NIT is still being played and the winner of that tournament is no longer recognized as the "national champions". The threat of litigation comes from the frustration that has left us where we are, without the ability to control our destiny but, the reality is there is no chance at winning any such case(s)
 
I truly don't know.

This is an especially bad spot for UConn. The last two moves in realignment were murderous - the Big Ten expansion that ultimately caused Big East to implode and then the ACC's grant of rights. We lost our conference and then had the status quo frozen into place.

Most of the schools in the AAC and MWC are already used to not making any money and their athletic departments are scaled to size. We have a huge athletic department that will see dramatic increases in costs intersecting with dramatic decreases in revenue.

Eventually, we either get out or scale back.

Long-term, anyone not in the P5 is done. In a very short period of time, they've taken all of the television money, all of the bowls, most of the playoff money and are starting to build their own rules and enforcement. Anyone who thinks they won't eventually come for the hoop tourney cash isn't paying attention.
You certainly may end up being correct... but if those P5 conferences think Rutgers, Syracuse, and Boston College will own all the tvs and eyeballs in NY, NJ, and New England, well, I've got this bridge for sale...
 
With regards to Michigan...I think we are attractive but with one major disadvantage the size of our stadium and the contract we have with the Rent, which precludes from playing home games outside this arena. ...and this comment is not meant to spark another diatribe on the need to expand the stadium...BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!!

Um, Michigan just played at your place. I think that's a good sign.

I don't know much about Michigan's new president but I get a feeling his vote would have nothing to do with the size of your stadium. What you should be worried about most with Michigan is AAU status and if Michigan believes you are firmly on your way to getting there. Michigan would vote half the Ivy's in if they wanted in.

Your toughest votes are probably Michigan, Wisconsin and the western rim.
 
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Litigation helped UConn out so much 10 years ago. I hope UConn doesn't go down that road again and piss off more ADs.

BCU troll.

If not for that lawsuit 11 years ago, the last 11 years of UConn athletic achievements would have never happened.
 
I agree about the P5 consolidating power. I think Fox will force the Big East inside the tent for at least the next TV contract as it relates to hoops, after that, who knows?

UConn will be a plaintiff, or, if things go well, a defendent. There is no way that this does not end up in an epic lawsuit that will change college sports forever, likely destroying it. I think this will happen within 5 years. Anyone who thinks 250 universities are going to allow their athletic programs to be quietly exterminated while 65 split several billion a year is not paying attention.

Personally, I think that the P5 collusion rises to the level of criminal activity. This administration is not going to do anything, but if there is a Democrat in the White House after 2016, do not be surprised if their is more aggressive anti-trust enforcement across the board.
 
I truly don't know.

This is an especially bad spot for UConn. The last two moves in realignment were murderous - the Big Ten expansion that ultimately caused Big East to implode and then the ACC's grant of rights. We lost our conference and then had the status quo frozen into place.

Most of the schools in the AAC and MWC are already used to not making any money and their athletic departments are scaled to size. We have a huge athletic department that will see dramatic increases in costs intersecting with dramatic decreases in revenue.

Eventually, we either get out or scale back.

Long-term, anyone not in the P5 is done. In a very short period of time, they've taken all of the television money, all of the bowls, most of the playoff money and are starting to build their own rules and enforcement. Anyone who thinks they won't eventually come for the hoop tourney cash isn't paying attention.


See, this is where I disagree, and I know I"ve asked before why you are so sure about this.

Alright, without a doubt 100% there is a HUGE gap in revenue streams annually going forward b/w the schools that make up the Pac12, SEC, Big 12, Big 10 and ACC as compared to the AAC, and the rest. The independants are plugging along with no changes really, except it getting harder to schedule for BYU, while Notre Dame jumped hosts from the now dead Big East, to the ACC. Can only hope that parasite kills them too......but I digress.

Huge gap - moving forward - no doubt.

But how does that affect UCONN? How much are we really losing? In television revenue dollars, we are making about a $1mill less per year - by my last reading/research - than we got out of the Big East contract. That's not a huge $ amount in the grand scheme. We are losing the share of the BCS we had - but the BCS no longer exists, and we only had that for 8 years of our entire existence.

I honestly don't know the numbers, no reason I should, but I don't see a huge change in the operating budget of the athletic department going forward. We will need to move tickets and expand the stadium, for real hard cash flow, but any athletic department needs that and it's about time we got serious about it.

So I think we won't have piles of cash to spend like schools in other conferences, but it's not like we're losing all this money we had. We never had any of it, and have gotten this far.

The thing that is the real problem, I see it, being outside the P5, is that we cannot afford to be bottom feeders and basement dwellers in the money maker sports. With winningn program, in men's, women's hoops and football, I think we're going to not just survive, but continue to thrive.

Without winning though, outside the P5, losing for an extended period of time, at UCONN, it will be a quick drop from thrive - to not being alive - skipping just surviving quickly. THere is no security blanket in revenue to come in, if you've got empty sports arenas and nothing to drive fund raising.

A school like Wake, or Rutgers, or any other, can plug along as a basement dweller and never be concerned. Not UCONN.

P---ssies anyway.

We'll do it, and we'll win more titles.
 
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College football and college sports in general are nearing a fork in the road. One path leads to the P5 pulling back slightly, successfully skirting the issues, and keeping much of what has been proposed intact. The other path leads to unionization, salaried players, and a litany of lawsuits. The momentum will be unstoppable and college presidents will be powerless in their attempts to put the genie back in the bottle. College sports could look very different tens years out.
 
Huge gap - moving forward - no doubt.

But how does that affect UCONN? How much are we really losing? In television revenue dollars, we are making about a $1mill less per year - by my last reading/research - than we got out of the Big East contract. That's not a huge $ amount in the grand scheme. We are losing the share of the BCS we had - but the BCS no longer exists, and we only had that for 8 years of our entire existence.

There seems to be a huge gap.

TV money: $20-22m (ACC) to $35m (B1G) v. $2m (AAC)
Football Playoff Money: $4m per P5 v. 1.5m per G5.
Rose/Orange/Sugar Bowl Money: $215m / 6 P5 = $35m per P5 conference or .5m per school

If they consolidate the NCAA tourney somehow, it might get even nuttier for the P5. As it is, the gap might be around $30m per year.
 
We cannot compete with numbers like that. We won't be even able to retain our coaches. Soon those schools will be paying their coaches salaries we just won't be able to compete with.
 
Connecticut's value in the scheme of all things is phenomenal.
 
Connecticut's value in the scheme of all things is phenomenal.

Then how do you explain our current position. A perfect storm? We are very close to being shut out. I can see the B12 taking BYU and cincy.
 
The value we have is in our ability to capture NY and New England. We can definitely bring a lot of viewers in fairly wealthy markets to the table. The potential for our fan base to expand playing a B1G schedule is unlimited and we add plenty of trophies and prestige to the basketball side of any conference. We also come in with great facilities, great academics and an overall upward trajectory that no other school offers.

We REALLY shouldn't be in this position. It is a travesty. I'd like to think that someone will save us simply because we should be saved.
 
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The value we have is in our ability to capture NY and New England. We can definitely bring a lot of viewers in fairly wealthy markets to the table. The potential for our fan base to expand playing a B1G schedule is unlimited and we add plenty of trophies and prestige to the basketball side of any conference. We also come in with great facilities, great academics and an overall upward trajectory that no other school offers.

We REALLY shouldn't be in this position. It is a travesty. I'd like to think that someone will save us simply because we should be saved.

Syracuse and BC are just waiting for UConn to collapse athletically. That's what this is about. If that were to happen, then there is no value.
 
Syracuse and BC are just waiting for UConn to collapse athletically. That's what this is about. If that were to happen, then there is no value.
There is academically. SU and BC are both fine institutions but neither has seen as much growth as UCONN. Being the state flagship university offers much more upside, in my opinioin, than either SU or BC. It seems every other day UCONN is announcing some advancement in research and facilities.
I'll also add that the B1G values academics and the ACC apparently does not, anymore.
 
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Then how do you explain our current position. A perfect storm? We are very close to being shut out. I can see the B12 taking BYU and cincy.

While Butch's comments sometimes are funny, perfect storm does describe it well.
 
Let me add: I'm not worried about the B12 adding Cincy and BYU.
 
I'm very aware of the $ gap and its implications. Having said that, UConn's not going to stop competing anytime soon. TV revenue has always been a small percentage of UConn's substantial budget and we've found ways to win. In fact, Michigan (and others) has always had more than double UConn's revenue, but look who's captured more NC's over the past 20 years. If UConn continues to compete and fans respond it will be fine, at least for the next several years. UConn has always had to out work other schools to get ahead. So, what's new?

Being shut out of top tier competition is a greater concern and has revenue implications as well. But, with 2 Big Ten football games recently signed, compelling basketball match ups, and men's hockey opening their Hockey East season at B1G's Penn State, I'm still cautiously optimistic on this front. If we are shut out 10 years down the road the headwinds will be formidable, but for now collapse is not imminent. BC and Syracuse might be a waiting quite some time for that to transpire.
 
I'm very aware of the $ gap and its implications. Having said that, UConn's not going to stop competing anytime soon. TV revenue has always been a small percentage of UConn's substantial budget and we've found ways to win. In fact, Michigan (and others) has always had more than double UConn's revenue, but look who's captured more NC's over the past 20 years. If UConn continues to compete and fans respond it will be fine, at least for the next several years. UConn has always had to out work other schools to get ahead. So, what's new?

Being shut out of top tier competition is a greater concern and has revenue implications as well. But, with 2 Big Ten football games recently signed, compelling basketball match ups, and men's hockey opening their Hockey East season at B1G's Penn State, I'm still cautiously optimistic on this front. If we are shut out 10 years down the road the headwinds will be formidable, but for now collapse is not imminent. BC and Syracuse might be a waiting quite some time for that to transpire.

More than double though was $18m to UConn's $7m, a deficit of $11m. Now we're talking $30m. And the ACC was at $13m last year, just a $6m advantage over UConn.
 
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More than double though was $18m to UConn's $7m, a deficit of $11m. Now we're talking $30m. And the ACC was at $13m last year, just a $6m advantage over UConn.

I was referring to Michigan's $140M budget vs. our $65 (or $67M) budget.

BTW UConn is currently vying for another national championship on CBSSports (paintball).
 
I was referring to Michigan's $140M budget vs. our $65 (or $67M) budget.

BTW UConn is currently vying for another national championship on CBSSports (paintball).

5 years ago, UM was ahead of UConn by $36m.
Now UM is ahead of UConn by $77m.

UM's gap over UConn doubled in 5 years.
 
Then how do you explain our current position. A perfect storm? We are very close to being shut out. I can see the B12 taking BYU and cincy.
Perfect storm it may be, but trends favor large public universities and UConn is one in an excellent position for the future. The past 15 years speak volumes.

Anyone with basic knowledge on demographics understands we have an upside superior to Syracuse and Boston College.
 
Then how do you explain our current position. A perfect storm? We are very close to being shut out. I can see the B12 taking BYU and cincy.

Because he knows that his winning lottery ticket is next week
 
Perfect storm it may be, but trends favor large public universities and UConn is one in an excellent position for the future. The past 15 years speak volumes.

Anyone with basic knowledge on demographics understands we have an upside superior to Syracuse and Boston College.
Apparently that has no value compared to past success (like pre-1990). Sad, but somewhat predictable. The ones on top by luck or history don't leave quietly. They shouldn't be planning on my paying to watch Rutgers, Syracuse, or BC, just because they are my "local" P5 teams.
 
I think you are right and it scares the crap out of me. (Both agreeing with you, and knowing how well the lawsuit approach worked the last time we tried it)
Mike, the notion that the lawsuit hurt us significantly is a fallacy in my opinion. Name the votes that would have changed if we hadn't sued. BCU wants us out of the ACC because they can't compete against us. It is that simple.

Keep in mind that lawsuit earned us a much needed 7 figure settlement and kept the 'cuse from leaving earlier thus buying us a few more years to build the football program. It was the right decision to litigate and it paid off for us. I would have preferred to avoid most of Blummy's attention seeking behavior.

Litigation should be avoided if at all possible. It may not be possible if we are left on the outside looking in.
 
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