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How the ACC could become the 1st or 2nd most profitable conference over

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What I meant to offer was I think most College FB fans do miss the smaller conferences that existed in the past before big money took control. I think the ACC could very easily expand to 16+ and establish the old line ACC schools as one division and the old BE teams as the other. This might appease the traditional fan base because they would be very familiar with their "old conference teams and history of prior game experience".

I agree with you on this sentiment. I think UConn and Cincinnati would fit well in the ACC and have questioned why it has not happened. The loss of traditional rivalries has been a great casualty as conferences seek more money and territory. If there is a way that some of these traditional rivalries can be restored, I think it would be great for college athletics.

B1GAlum - Perhaps I am mistaken but I had heard that Urban Meyer had upset some Ohio HS coaches because he mentioned OSU would have to recruit more southern players. I do see, although its early, that for 2013 Ohio commits represent 33% (6/18) whereas historically its above 50% - just saying.

I agree with you on this sentiment as well. I do think Urban Meyer will need to find a balance between keeping guys from Ohio, who want to play for their state's flagship university, in state and going outside the state to recruit guys who fit his system. There is a risk that he leaves the door too wide open for Michigan, Kentucky and others to gain an even greater foothold in the state for recruiting.

Alcohol does distort perception, and I certainly moved off topic quickly. Taking a shot at the B1G was folly. The desperation that UConn fans have does cloud judgement.

No worries. I agree that UConn has been shafted thus far in conference realignment. Your university belongs in a power conference and I think would fit well with either the B1G or ACC.
 

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I actually think the ACC will be very successful long-term. I don't know if they will ever catch the Big 10, but it won't really matter. They will have plenty of cash to go around.
 
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ok i am going of this current week's top 10, week 10 poll, and i see 3 ACC teams. 1B1G, and 2 PAC 12 = your point regarding the reservation is?

Not trying to get conferentational but this year the ACC top Tyler Phommachanh bottom probably is better than B1G and PAC 12.

My overriding point is majpr college FB better start stressing rivalries over thw next 3-6 yrs or they will be in trouble. amd the ACC, due to its BE acquisition history has an advanrage if they are smart enought to play that card. ie no B1G team really gets a fan badse charge out of playing nebraska = they really dont
So your saying basically that thanks to the BE the ACC should be much stronger and improved through their outliers?(Pitt,BC,Cuse?)And instead of aligning with OSU,Mich,MSU,PSU,RU and MD we should forget the wealth aspect and independent wealth/prestige/history of the B1G and take our chances with the conference that keeps putting us on hold and is second within their own footprint to the SEC because you prefer them?
 
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Alcohol does distort perception, and I certainly moved off topic quickly. Taking a shot at the B1G was folly. The desperation that UConn fans have does cloud judgement.

What I meant to offer was I think most College FB fans do miss the smaller conferences that existed in the past before big money took control. I think the ACC could very easily expand to 16+ and establish the old line ACC schools as one division and the old BE teams as the other. This might appease the traditional fan base because they would be very familiar with their "old conference teams and history of prior game experience".


B1GAlum - Perhaps I am mistaken but I had heard that Urban Meyer had upset some Ohio HS coaches because he mentioned OSU would have to recruit more southern players. I do see, although its early, that for 2013 Ohio commits represent 33% (6/18) whereas historically its above 50% - just saying.
I like the way you presented your argument n this post and I agree with most of this post!I also preferred playing in regional conferences and really liked the BE but the smaller BB school's would'nt allow or could'nt see FB was where the money was(at least for now) and would'nt let us grow or expand out of fear of losing there little "powerbases"!
 
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"Send a killer blow" :rolleyes:
Wrong.
Have you also considered the possibility that if ND wants to join the ACC in football that Navy or Cincinnati may be tapped as team #16?
Have you also considered the possibility that if ND does not want to join the ACC in football but the Big 12 does implode the ACC may tap Cincinnati and West Virginia, to reunite with Pitt and Virginia Tech, as teams #15 and #16?

I know that there is interest in Cincinnati by the ACC, but I can't figure out the attraction. I'd rather have Temple, but I'd probably be overruled. Of course my first choice for the ACC would be Connecticut.

The West Virginia idea is intriguing. They are clearly in the wrong conference right now. They do bring some benefit with long term rivalries with Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech. Now that the ACC has relaxed the academic standards in bringing in Louisville, there really isn't an argument anymore in keeping West Virginia out. Now that WVU has joined the Big XII they might not have any interest in the ACC anyway, but it is intriguing to think about.
 
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Have you gone over to SU's or BCs board and tested/aired out your hypothesis on actual ACC members?How about FSU or Clemson's boards? Best see what the rank and file ACC fan thinks of your idea of helping them out no?Let me know how they feel about it.btw,I love your enthusiasm!

Nicky, as a NC native, and, lifelong Carolina fan, those of us in the Southern part of the ACC would absolutely take a South-North, or, old ACC-old BE, divisional divide in a heartbeat (with Miami in the North/BE). But, internal politics within the league would prevent that from ever happening.
 
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Nicky, as a NC native, and, lifelong Carolina fan, those of us in the Southern part of the ACC would absolutely take a South-North, or, old ACC-old BE, divisional divide in a heartbeat (with Miami in the North/BE). But, internal politics within the league would prevent that from ever happening.
Unfortunately some of UConn's biggest detracter's aren't from Tobacco road but the upstate NY region near the frosty lakes and on the banks of the river Charles in Boston or BC to be more specific!!I'm pretty sure FSU and Clemson are the southern problem.How many or who else voted against UConn I wish I knew?
 

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The Big 10 is going to be a financial force for what may as well be eternity.

For at least our lifetimes the Big 10 will not be a football power.

Alabama plays 3 top 15 BCS schools in 5 weeks. Ohio State hasn't played one in two years.

The demographics can't be overcome. The SEC will dominate. The Pac 12 will lock themselves into number 2. The Big 12 will have a handful of great teams. The Big 10 will fall between 3-5 every year depending on how good the Big 12 and ACC are.

There are not enough good players coming out of the midwest to compete with the southern and California powerhouses.

The gap in already obvious and is growing.
 
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The Big 10 is going to be a financial force for what may as well be eternity.

For at least our lifetimes the Big 10 will not be a football power.

Alabama plays 3 top 15 BCS schools in 5 weeks. Ohio State hasn't played one in two years.

The demographics can't be overcome. The SEC will dominate. The Pac 12 will lock themselves into number 2. The Big 12 will have a handful of great teams. The Big 10 will fall between 3-5 every year depending on how good the Big 12 and ACC are.

There are not enough good players coming out of the midwest to compete with the southern and California powerhouses.

The gap in already obvious and is growing.

The ACC has a shot at number 2 vs the PAC 12. It all depends on what comes out of Florida and Georgia vs California. But you are correct on the demographic challenge of the Big Ten for football.
 
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Unfortunately some of UConn's biggest detracter's aren't from Tobacco road but the upstate NY region near the frosty lakes and on the banks of the river Charles in Boston or BC to be more specific!!I'm pretty sure FSU and Clemson are the southern problem.How many or who else voted against UConn I wish I knew?


FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson were the "southern problem". They have pulled together of late and have become the counterbalance to Coach K who thought that he and Roy Williams called the shots the league.
 
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FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson were the "southern problem". They have pulled together of late and have become the counterbalance to Coach K who thought that he and Roy Williams called the shots the league.
Yes I figured as much but as a school with northern ties like VT who like recruiting in the NE some I'm a little surprised?Of the southern cabal I think VT is probably the school that was most concerned with the ACC holding it together before the GOR. I think their most satisfied with there place in the world with the exception of NC ?
 
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There was not a lot of love between older VT fans and the Big East. And UConn was pointed out as a VT backstabber.

VT was turned down by the Big East for all sports entry and allowed in for football only in 1990 (and thus not sharing any basketball revenue).

VT never forgot....their allies were supposed to be Syracuse, Pitt, and Miami and the basketball schools their enemy.

"But in 1993-94, Virginia Tech was served with a punch in the gut that was one of the darkest days in VT athletics history.
1994: The infamous Big East snub
In late 1993, the conference rumblings started happening again, and this time, they were centered around the Big East. The league started seriously discussing adding their four football-only schools to the conference for all sports, which would mushroom the Big East membership from 10 to 14 schools.
Why did the discussion come up? Two reasons: TV money and possible raiding by other conferences.
The Big Ten, having gained serious TV market share in the east with the addition of Penn State, was talking to Rutgers about the Scarlet Knights becoming the twelfth team in the league. That would help the Big Ten penetrate as far east as New York, and it would also allow the league to split into divisions and play a championship game, a possibility that was unforeseen in the 1989 PSU expansion but which had been put into play by the SEC in 1992, with their first football championship game.
Rutgers as an expansion target sounds laughable, but in 1994, the Knights had a pretty strong football team, and of course they offered that New York/New Jersey TV market, or so it was thought. In addition to Rutgers, the Big Ten as well as the SEC was also rumored to be talking to West Virginia.
On another front, the CFA football TV contracts with the networks were about to expire at the end of the 1995 season, and conferences were beginning to negotiate their own TV deals, to take effect with the 1996 season. The CFA’s contracts with ABC/ESPN had limited college football exposure for years, but with CBS now a player, the opportunity was ripe for conferences to get increased dollars and exposure for their football programs. CBS had been out of the business of broadcasting college football since 1990, but with the loss of their NFL contract to the upstart Fox network, CBS was looking for new sports properties to sign up. College football looked like a prime candidate.
What did that have to do with Big East expansion? Simple, or maybe not so simple: CBS was negotiating with the conference for a combination football/basketball TV contract, but only for the eight schools that played football.
You read that right. CBS was ready to sign a contract with the Big East’s eight football-playing schools not just for football, but for basketball. Ponder that a minute. On the football side it was a clean proposal, but on the basketball side, it was a mess. If the football schools signed a contract with CBS for basketball, it would give CBS rights to broadcast the hoops games of four schools that weren’t even in the Big East for basketball — schools such as Tech and Temple — but it wouldn’t give CBS the rights to broadcast games for the Big East basketball-only schools — schools such as St. John’s and Georgetown.
For the Big East, there were two solutions: (1) have the eight football schools break away into a new all-sports conference, making the TV contracts clean and simple; or (2) absorb the four football-only schools, which legally would make the new CBS basketball contract the property of all 14 schools, not just the eight football schools.
Heading into 1994, that was the situation, and you can see that either outcome was good for the Hokies. They would either be in an expanded Big East or in a new eight-team all-sports conference. Hokie fans were giddy with anticipation, and the issue was expected to be resolved in January or February of 1994.
In February, with Big East expansion still unresolved, CBS forced the issue by signing the eight BE football schools to a five-year, $72 million contract, $55 million of which was for football, and $17 million of which was for basketball. (As an aside, CBS also signed the SEC up to a five-year, $85 million deal for both football and basketball).
Within a week, ABC/ESPN followed suit, signing a five-year, $22 million contract with the eight football schools, bringing the total to $94 million over five years, or nearly $19 million a year. This really applied the pressure to the Big East football schools to expand the league or break away.
A breakaway looked like the most likely outcome, because 7 of 10 votes were needed for expansion, and at least four of the six basketball-only schools were staunchly opposed to expansion. A breakaway was such a near-certainty that in mid-February, athletic directors of the football schools met and drew up operating procedures for the anticipated new league. The four-team “Syracuse group” of Syracuse, BC, Pitt, and Miami, led by Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel, pledged a breakaway if the league presidents didn’t vote for a four-team expansion.
On Wednesday, March 9, 1994, Big East presidents voted on expansion. But instead of membership in a 14-team league or an eight-team breakaway league, Virginia Tech got a knife in the back.
The news came back from the meeting: the league had voted for a two-team expansion of WVU and Rutgers, and Tech and Temple were left out in the cold.
When push came to shove, the Syracuse group didn’t have the guts to break away from the league that Crouthamel had helped found. In addition to the loyalty issue, which Crouthamel felt especially strong about, it would have cost the Syracuse group millions of dollars by requiring them to each pay $1-$2 million in exit fees, plus give up the NCAA basketball tournament revenue-sharing units the league had built up, worth about $400,000 a year.
So they protected their flanks by pulling in expansion properties Rutgers and WVU, while leaving out Virginia Tech and Temple, whom no one else wanted.
The shocked Hokies rightfully felt betrayed, but as often happens in expansion, what the athletic directors wanted and what the school presidents agreed to turned out to be two different things. The question remains, who came up with the idea of the two-team expansion? In a retrospective written in 2000 and posted on the Syracuse web site, Crouthamel wrote:
After meeting with CBS the directors of B.C., Pitt, Miami and I met. I suggested that the only shot we had at keeping everything together and at the same time benefiting from the CBS largesse was to get a majority vote by “packing the court.” To do that we needed to get two football schools accepted [emphasis added] as new members of The BIG EAST Conference.

In so saying, Crouthamel takes credit for the idea, singling himself out as the backstabber. But in a March 30, 1994 article in Husky Blue and White, then-UConn president Harry Hartley took credit for the compromise idea.
The decision stung, but there was little the Hokies could do about it, other than fume. The Big East poured salt on the wound by declaring a five-year moratorium on expansion … then within a year, inviting Notre Dame in for all sports but football, making the league an unwieldy 13-team conglomeration.
The Hokies had been put in their place. They were not wanted.

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Finally...on October 6, 1999, Tranghese held a press conference announcing VT was admitted to the Big East for all sports.


"The terms of Tech’s Big East deal were announced, and they weren’t favorable to Tech.

In 1994, Rutgers and WVU paid $500,000 each and got to participate in revenue-sharing immediately, but the Hokies weren’t so fortunate. Virginia Tech would pay $2.5 million in entry fees over ten years and wouldn’t get to share TV revenue for the first five years of conference membership, a loss of about $1.3 million in conference revenue-sharing per year."

Many VT guys have not forgotten their treatment by the Big East.
 
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There was not a lot of love between older VT fans and the Big East. And UConn was pointed out as a VT backstabber.

VT was turned down by the Big East for all sports entry and allowed in for football only in 1990 (and thus not sharing any basketball revenue).

VT never forgot....their allies were Syracuse, Pitt, and Miami (a group that endures) and the basketball schools their enemy.

"But in 1993-94, Virginia Tech was served with a punch in the gut that was one of the darkest days in VT athletics history.
1994: The infamous Big East snub
In late 1993, the conference rumblings started happening again, and this time, they were centered around the Big East. The league started seriously discussing adding their four football-only schools to the conference for all sports, which would mushroom the Big East membership from 10 to 14 schools.
Why did the discussion come up? Two reasons: TV money and possible raiding by other conferences.
The Big Ten, having gained serious TV market share in the east with the addition of Penn State, was talking to Rutgers about the Scarlet Knights becoming the twelfth team in the league. That would help the Big Ten penetrate as far east as New York, and it would also allow the league to split into divisions and play a championship game, a possibility that was unforeseen in the 1989 PSU expansion but which had been put into play by the SEC in 1992, with their first football championship game.
Rutgers as an expansion target sounds laughable, but in 1994, the Knights had a pretty strong football team, and of course they offered that New York/New Jersey TV market, or so it was thought. In addition to Rutgers, the Big Ten as well as the SEC was also rumored to be talking to West Virginia.
On another front, the CFA football TV contracts with the networks were about to expire at the end of the 1995 season, and conferences were beginning to negotiate their own TV deals, to take effect with the 1996 season. The CFA’s contracts with ABC/ESPN had limited college football exposure for years, but with CBS now a player, the opportunity was ripe for conferences to get increased dollars and exposure for their football programs. CBS had been out of the business of broadcasting college football since 1990, but with the loss of their NFL contract to the upstart Fox network, CBS was looking for new sports properties to sign up. College football looked like a prime candidate.
What did that have to do with Big East expansion? Simple, or maybe not so simple: CBS was negotiating with the conference for a combination football/basketball TV contract, but only for the eight schools that played football.
You read that right. CBS was ready to sign a contract with the Big East’s eight football-playing schools not just for football, but for basketball. Ponder that a minute. On the football side it was a clean proposal, but on the basketball side, it was a mess. If the football schools signed a contract with CBS for basketball, it would give CBS rights to broadcast the hoops games of four schools that weren’t even in the Big East for basketball — schools such as Tech and Temple — but it wouldn’t give CBS the rights to broadcast games for the Big East basketball-only schools — schools such as St. John’s and Georgetown.
For the Big East, there were two solutions: (1) have the eight football schools break away into a new all-sports conference, making the TV contracts clean and simple; or (2) absorb the four football-only schools, which legally would make the new CBS basketball contract the property of all 14 schools, not just the eight football schools.
Heading into 1994, that was the situation, and you can see that either outcome was good for the Hokies. They would either be in an expanded Big East or in a new eight-team all-sports conference. Hokie fans were giddy with anticipation, and the issue was expected to be resolved in January or February of 1994.
In February, with Big East expansion still unresolved, CBS forced the issue by signing the eight BE football schools to a five-year, $72 million contract, $55 million of which was for football, and $17 million of which was for basketball. (As an aside, CBS also signed the SEC up to a five-year, $85 million deal for both football and basketball).
Within a week, ABC/ESPN followed suit, signing a five-year, $22 million contract with the eight football schools, bringing the total to $94 million over five years, or nearly $19 million a year. This really applied the pressure to the Big East football schools to expand the league or break away.
A breakaway looked like the most likely outcome, because 7 of 10 votes were needed for expansion, and at least four of the six basketball-only schools were staunchly opposed to expansion. A breakaway was such a near-certainty that in mid-February, athletic directors of the football schools met and drew up operating procedures for the anticipated new league. The four-team “Syracuse group” of Syracuse, BC, Pitt, and Miami, led by Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel, pledged a breakaway if the league presidents didn’t vote for a four-team expansion.
On Wednesday, March 9, 1994, Big East presidents voted on expansion. But instead of membership in a 14-team league or an eight-team breakaway league, Virginia Tech got a knife in the back.
The news came back from the meeting: the league had voted for a two-team expansion of WVU and Rutgers, and Tech and Temple were left out in the cold.
When push came to shove, the Syracuse group didn’t have the guts to break away from the league that Crouthamel had helped found. In addition to the loyalty issue, which Crouthamel felt especially strong about, it would have cost the Syracuse group millions of dollars by requiring them to each pay $1-$2 million in exit fees, plus give up the NCAA basketball tournament revenue-sharing units the league had built up, worth about $400,000 a year.
So they protected their flanks by pulling in expansion properties Rutgers and WVU, while leaving out Virginia Tech and Temple, whom no one else wanted.
The shocked Hokies rightfully felt betrayed, but as often happens in expansion, what the athletic directors wanted and what the school presidents agreed to turned out to be two different things. The question remains, who came up with the idea of the two-team expansion? In a retrospective written in 2000 and posted on the Syracuse web site, Crouthamel wrote:
After meeting with CBS the directors of B.C., Pitt, Miami and I met. I suggested that the only shot we had at keeping everything together and at the same time benefiting from the CBS largesse was to get a majority vote by “packing the court.” To do that we needed to get two football schools accepted [emphasis added] as new members of The BIG EAST Conference.


In so saying, Crouthamel takes credit for the idea, singling himself out as the backstabber. But in a March 30, 1994 article in Husky Blue and White, then-UConn president Harry Hartley took credit for the compromise idea.
The decision stung, but there was little the Hokies could do about it, other than fume. The Big East poured salt on the wound by declaring a five-year moratorium on expansion … then within a year, inviting Notre Dame in for all sports but football, making the league an unwieldy 13-team conglomeration.
The Hokies had been put in their place. They were not wanted.

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Get outta here with this crap.

UConn saved the conference back then. The basketball schools were getting ready to split. UConn brokered the compromise with the Catholic schools. Backstabbing? You're joking right? UConn was the school that made the peace among all the parties. Without UConn, VT is left in the CUSA. Most of the posters here know that history very well, and Mike Tranghese has been open about what happened and how UConn was the glue that kept the league together at that point. The revisionist history in this post of yours is galling. If you think Syracuse was going to give up the BET in NYC and its historic rivals in bball so it could play VT and Temple in football, you are dreaming. The whole situation was reversed. It was the basketball schools that issued the ultimatums, not the 4 football schools. The bball schools weren't getting the football money anyway, that's how it always was. And when the bball schools started heading for the door (rather than admit Temple and VT), that's when UConn stepped up and made peace between the two factions. This has been written about repeatedly.

In that thoroughly twisted VT version above, it says two things would have happened to VT: full membership in the new football conference or full membership in the BE. But it leaves out the real stakes: it was either Metro conference for VT or an offer coming from the basketball schools. There was never any other possibility.
 
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Yes I figured as much but as a school with northern ties like VT who like recruiting in the NE some I'm a little surprised?Of the southern cabal I think VT is probably the school that was most concerned with the ACC holding it together before the GOR. I think their most satisfied with there place in the world with the exception of NC ?


Take a look at VT's roster...a couple of kids from Pa. are the only athletes north of Baltimore that they recruited. Very heavily a Virginia laden roster.
 
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Get outta here with this crap.

UConn saved the conference back then. The basketball schools were getting ready to split. UConn brokered the compromise with the Catholic schools. Backstabbing? You're joking right? UConn was the school that made the peace among all the parties. Without UConn, VT is left in the CUSA. Most of the posters here know that history very well, and Mike Tranghese has been open about what happened and how UConn was the glue that kept the league together at that point.

Get outta here with this crap.

UConn saved the conference back then. The basketball schools were getting ready to split. UConn brokered the compromise with the Catholic schools. Backstabbing? You're joking right? UConn was the school that made the peace among all the parties. Without UConn, VT is left in the CUSA. Most of the posters here know that history very well, and Mike Tranghese has been open about what happened and how UConn was the glue that kept the league together at that point.



It is from VT's web site and their reality. Your reality may be different...but the question was raised about VT and their NE interests.

I understand that you don't like the viewpoint.
 
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UConn may "have saved the conference" but they may not be able to count as close friends some former BE associates.

VT having to pay increased entrance costs and reduced revenue sharing (while WVU and Rutgers did not) is still talked about and remembered.

And, as Billybud, I have been discussing football on their Scout site since 2001.
 
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It is from VT's web site and their reality. Your reality may be different...but the question was raised about VT and their NE interests.

I understand that you don't like the viewpoint.

This is pure crap. It is filled with absolute untruths.
 
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UConn may "have saved the conference" but they may not be able to count as close friends some former BE associates.

VT having to pay increased entrance costs and reduced revenue sharing (while WVU and Rutgers did not) is still talked about and remembered.

I mean, look at the end result. Syracuse was not going to give up basketball for VT. Do you really believe that? I mean, come'on! VT wasn't even that good prior to that.
 
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Uhh..OK.

And it just may be their perception of reality....reality perceived is how reality is experienced.
 
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How about VT being hit with higher costs than other entrants...that has been a sore point for a while.

But then, time and money changes everything and VT may now be the first program in UConn's corner....
 
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I could see former Big East programs like Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Syracuse lining up to help a former conference mate....

I could also just as easily see VT calling for reduced revenue sharing...
 
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You know...VT hasn't forgotten Louisville's treachery (and it was egregious)....didn't stop the football schools from pushing for Louisville.
 
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Like the Big East....the ACC has a dance going between the football guys and the basketball guys.

An ongoing power struggle with shifting alliances and perceived power. The recent disclosure that football brings in 80% of the media revenue has, for now, augmented the football programs' hand. It has influenced not only power but how revenue will be shared...bowl teams and playoff teams will eat more of what they kill.

And there are huge difference of opinion, based on the geography of the program, between the relative efficacy of northern expansion versus southern.
 
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