How the ACC could become the 1st or 2nd most profitable conference over

[billybud]

Yeah...I'm a soccer guy. Too old to play now and I have hung up my coaching whistle. I gave up officiating after having my knee cleaned out a couple of years ago. But we watch soccer.

But football isn't in a downswing (well, maybe in Storrs)...more folks then ever watch it...just on HD TV's rather than from the stands.

Women's soccer is big and growing support (just not a lot of sideline fans).

The ACC has always been tough in soccer (my son played for an ACC school). He is currently in a leg cast from an ACL tear from coaching on field during a scrimmage.

 

[NickyNewark]

Conference shmonference....Who cares?

It really isn't like the SEC everywhere is it? With fans cheering SEC-SEC-SEC.

The ACC is just really a place for my team to play...as long as my team can play on the national stage, have some good games with a national audience, and have an environment that excites fans and draws athletes, I could care less about conference rah-rah.

Just let me continue to enjoy rivalry games with UF, Miami, and Clemson. What do we in Tallahassee have to do with Syracuse, Pitt, or Boston College anyway?

"What do we in the south care about SU,BC and Pitt?"...On that I completely agree in reverse,I don't care much how FSU ,GT or N.C.ST are doing...CR is destroying what was always the strength of CFB!!Regional rivals just makes more sense and costs less. We could always test our strengths in OOC and bowl games against teams from other regions !And the WV move is really far-fetched 1,000 miles from most every other conference mate !?! I can't understand how even the ACC in rough times in FB could take a pass on them but later take in L'ville ?I guess yr to yr priorities change?It seems to have had an adverse effect on WVU so far.

 

[billybud]

I do NOT think that football is dying at all....

"ABC televised the two most-viewed college football games of the week Saturday, Nov. 2, led by Saturday Night Football Presented by Windows – Florida State defeating Miami 41-14 – which averaged 8,354,000 viewers and a 5.1 rating. That helped ABC win the night among households, viewers, and all key men and adult demographics.

ABC’s coverage of Michigan State beating Michigan 29-6, Saturday at 3:30 p.m. ET, was the second most-viewed game of the week, averaging 5,169,000 viewers and a 3.3 rating. The final rating for ABC’s noon coverage of Wisconsin over Iowa and Boston College defeating Virginia Tech will be available on Thursday.

ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 & ESPNU Audience Growth Led by Double-Digit Increases for Saturday Night Football
The ABC Saturday Night Football series is posting double-digit audience growth over last year at the same point, averaging 6,356,000 viewers and a 3.8 rating for increases of 18 percent (vs. 5,405,000) and 15 percent (vs. 3.3) over 2012.

Through week 10, college football game telecasts are generating larger audiences across ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU in the 2013 season than the same point in 2012:

 

[specialisthusky]

I think he is talking about the amount of kid's playing the sports. Not the television popularity.

 

[NickyNewark]

I think he is talking about the amount of kid's playing the sports. Not the television popularity.

Your right...mothers especially in middle class and up regions won't allow their kids to play FB anymore in HS !People are getting educated (and a bit soft) to the adverse effects of head injuries though I think it could be just as bad in other sports that just don't get the exposure? How about Rugby where they don't even use helmets?Do they have similar problems?

 

[billybud]

I think he is talking about the amount of kid's playing the sports. Not the television popularity.

Oh...I agree about number of kids playing (up to about age 16 and then it just dies off). We have pee wee football...but the numbers of kids playing soccer is vastly more. But not as many as the scores of kids baseball teams and various leagues. But at the middle school level, some smaller Florida schools field football teams and kids start developing for high school football.

Funny though...soccer will never be a go-to television sport for most of us. Even my son, who ate, played and slept soccer for most of his life, says that he loves to play soccer but watch football. And I think that is what has been happening...kids playing soccer has not equated to more fans watching soccer on the TV or fields.

As we become more populated by Hispanic culture, that may shift...but not in my lifetime.

 

[SouthronCross]

The thing about the nation and the ACC, I think...is that basketball isn't that big in the southeast compared to the Northeast.

Football is king below North Carolina and baseball gives basketball a run for their money. Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida...are football and baseball territory.

The state of North Carolina is just as FB crazy as any other Southern state. Just not at UNC or Duke. Although, its slightly better than it has been at both places.

UNC's stubborn refusal to embrace what a good FB program could mean to the university is just maddening. Why the PTBs in Chapel Hill cannot understand that they're throwing away a potential goldmine in football is beyond me.

Oh, and NC IS baseball territory, too.

 

[SouthronCross]

"What do we in the south care about SU,BC and Pitt?"...On that I completely agree in reverse,I don't care much how FSU ,GT or N.C.ST are doing...CR is destroying what was always the strength of CFB!!Regional rivals just makes more sense and costs less. We could always test our strengths in OOC and bowl games against teams from other regions !And the WV move is really far-fetched 1,000 miles from most every other conference mate !?! I can't understand how even the ACC in rough times in FB could take a pass on them but later take in L'ville ?I guess yr to yr priorities change?It seems to have had an adverse effect on WVU so far.

Nicky, both WVU and VPI were in the original Southern Conference, which at one time included all of the original members of both the ACC and SEC. The best I understand it, neither were very good conference mates, and, thats why both were passed over for membership in the original ACC.

And, had VA Gov Mark Warner not pulled a power play with UVA to get VPI into the ACC, they would still be on the outside looking in, just like WVU is.

 

[btstimpy]

Nicky, both WVU and VPI were in the original Southern Conference, which at one time included all of the original members of both the ACC and SEC. The best I understand it, neither were very good conference mates, and, thats why both were passed over for membership in the original ACC.

And, had VA Gov Mark Warner not pulled a power play with UVA to get VPI into the ACC, they would still be on the outside looking in, just like WVU is.

Actually it was John Casteen at UVA that pushed for VPI before Mark Warner had any idea that the discussions about expansion were even going on in the ACC. I hate that Mark Warner is given credit for making that happen when it was happening before he even got involved. He takes credit like most politicians for something he didn't even do.

John Casteen and Charles Steger at Virginia Tech built a great relationship with eash other and often worked together to lobby the General Assembly to get things for the public universities in the state.

 

[btstimpy]

"What do we in the south care about SU,BC and Pitt?"...On that I completely agree in reverse,I don't care much how FSU ,GT or N.C.ST are doing...CR is destroying what was always the strength of CFB!!Regional rivals just makes more sense and costs less. We could always test our strengths in OOC and bowl games against teams from other regions !And the WV move is really far-fetched 1,000 miles from most every other conference mate !?! I can't understand how even the ACC in rough times in FB could take a pass on them but later take in L'ville ?I guess yr to yr priorities change?It seems to have had an adverse effect on WVU so far.

I don't know where WVU was on the ACC's list. Had they not gone to the Big 12 when they did, the ACC might have taken them instead of Louisville. The Pitt-WVU rivalry would have been good for the conference. Timing was everything on the Louisville deal. The ACC wasn't looking to expand, but when Maryland left they had to replace them.

Today it really does appear that WVU is in the wrong conference.

 

[upstater]

Yeah...I'm a soccer guy. Too old to play now and I have hung up my coaching whistle. I gave up officiating after having my knee cleaned out a couple of years ago. But we watch soccer.

But football isn't in a downswing (well, maybe in Storrs)...more folks then ever watch it...just on HD TV's rather than from the stands.

Women's soccer is big and growing support (just not a lot of sideline fans).

The ACC has always been tough in soccer (my son played for an ACC school). He is currently in a leg cast from an ACL tear from coaching on field during a scrimmage.

I hear numbers are down for football nationally. Baseball is all but lost. Basketball and soccer are coming up. Hockey is weird because it costs a bundle and the parents are deranged.

 

[upstater]

By the way, the youth scene is America for soccer is just getting going now. The national academies are just now up and running in the last few years. They are finally associating with elite youth programs, many through MLS, at all phases. The level of play at the youth level has skyrocketed. And every year they are adding younger age levels to the elite teams and academies. In other words, soccer is now becoming like ice hockey in the USA.

 

[billybud]

Heck...down here, soccer has been pretty much booming for two decades. I was on the board of several Florida Soccer organizations in the top of Florida area. The hispanic teams from Dade were oue nemesis (and, for a while, the Blackwatch Club out of the Tampa Bay area).

Two decades ago we were hiring in coaches from Europe and South America that had pro experience...thus my son's expenses were pretty high. Travel all over the southeast for great opponents (both friendlies and tourneys). Some kids summered in Equador and Brazillion camps....some in elite American camps....pre high school, my kid summered in the Clemson dorm while the Clemson staff instructed. Took me several years after he was in college to finally pay off soccer related debt.

We did not have less than fairly affluent kids play....socccer is an affluent sport...basketball was the game for the poorer black kids. We did have a couple of black kids play...one whose father is a professor from Nigeria and another from Guyana.

Most of our non elite team kids (and myself as an adult player) received instruction weekly from a coach who was brought in from Newcastle and another from the Scots National Team.

I played on an adult team called the Green Cards....We had guys from Tanzania, Nigeria, France, Argentina, Morroco, England and the US.

 

[upstater]

Heck...down here, soccer has been pretty much booming for two decades. I was on the board of several Florida Soccer organizations in the top of Florida area. The hispanic teams from Dade were oue nemesis (and, for a while, the Blackwatch Club out of the Tampa Bay area).

Two decades ago we were hiring in coaches from Europe and South America that had pro experience...thus my son's expenses were pretty high. Travel all over the southeast for great opponents (both friendlies and tourneys). Some kids summered in Equador and Brazillion camps....some in elite American camps....pre high school, my kid summered in the Clemson dorm while the Clemson staff instructed. Took me several years after he was in college to finally pay off soccer related debt.

We did not have less than fairly affluent kids play....socccer is an affluent sport...basketball was the game for the poorer black kids. We did have a couple of black kids play...one whose father is a professor from Nigeria and another from Guyana.

Most of our non elite team kids (and myself as an adult player) received instruction weekly from a coach who was brought in from Newcastle and another from the Scots National Team.

I played on an adult team called the Green Cards....We had guys from Tanzania, Nigeria, France, Argentina, Morroco, England and the US.

It's the same up here. But there's a difference. All the youth coaches were former pros from the Europe for a long time. The difference now is pro coaches at the youth level. In other words, these are salaried individuals. They scout for kids and bring them not only onto Elite teams (there are several of those in my area, Black Watch being just one) but get the elite of the elite to train with the national academies. This is different than how they used to do it.

http://www.empireusa-devacademy.org/

These players no longer play on school or high school teams in addition to their club or elite teams. They are on one team only, and it's affiliated with the national team. In other words, they've adopted the hockey model and are ignoring the baseball and basketball models of school and AAU/elite teams. The high school coaches are up in arms.

 

[billybud]

The high school teams stopped allowing kids to play on elite clubs a long time ago and vice versa....

 

[NickyNewark]

Heck...down here, soccer has been pretty much booming for two decades. I was on the board of several Florida Soccer organizations in the top of Florida area. The hispanic teams from Dade were oue nemesis (and, for a while, the Blackwatch Club out of the Tampa Bay area).

Two decades ago we were hiring in coaches from Europe and South America that had pro experience...thus my son's expenses were pretty high. Travel all over the southeast for great opponents (both friendlies and tourneys). Some kids summered in Equador and Brazillion camps....some in elite American camps....pre high school, my kid summered in the Clemson dorm while the Clemson staff instructed. Took me several years after he was in college to finally pay off soccer related debt.

We did not have less than fairly affluent kids play....socccer is an affluent sport...basketball was the game for the poorer black kids. We did have a couple of black kids play...one whose father is a professor from Nigeria and another from Guyana.

Most of our non elite team kids (and myself as an adult player) received instruction weekly from a coach who was brought in from Newcastle and another from the Scots National Team.

I played on an adult team called the Green Cards....We had guys from Tanzania, Nigeria, France, Argentina, Morroco, England and the US.

i enjoy following scottish soccer and generally root for Celtic or Glasgow Rangers too, "Yes i know their adversaries" as Mom is Catholic and my Dad was Presbyterian so i root for both unless they play each other! I also enjoy all the Celtic rugby teams in the Celtic nations tourney including Brettony and N.Z. blackshirts!Where I grew up in NJ the Kearny Scots were a power in NJ soccer!Until recently (last 25 yrs) Kearny was a Scottish enclave in a heavily Irish/Italian/Slavic area! Jersey City was an Irish enclave until the 70s or so too!

 

[notanaacfan]

A Louisville fan here that's been following your board for over a year. First and foremost I have to say this board has the most intelligent posters of any I have visisted. I will also say this, UCONN deserved the ACC bid over us. Academics do/should matter, and you guys have also earned it on the field/court. Very impressive what your football program has accomplished in such a short time as a FBS team. I still don't understand the Syracuse, VT, and BC stuff from the 90's. I do know this, we screwed FSU and VT when we joined/started CUSA. There has to be more to it.?

 

[upstater]

The high school teams stopped allowing kids to play on elite clubs a long time ago and vice versa....

Why would high school teams do that? They loved using the best kids. It's the elite teams that changed up.

I'm really trying to figure out if you're countering what I'm saying. The US National teams have just recently instituted these academies. It's a totally brand new set-up.

 

[upstater]

A Louisville fan here that's been following your board for over a year. First and foremost I have to say this board has the most intelligent posters of any I have visisted. I will also say this, UCONN deserved the ACC bid over us. Academics do/should matter, and you guys have also earned it on the field/court. Very impressive what your football program has accomplished in such a short time as a FBS team. I still don't understand the Syracuse, VT, and BC stuff from the 90's. I do know this, we screwed FSU and VT when we joined/started CUSA. There has to be more to it.?

Louisville won the national championship and was highly ranked in football. Very good timing. You deserved it. If you had beaten a very bad Uconn team last year, it would have been even more convincing.

 

[billybud]

Why would high school teams do that? They loved using the best kids. It's the elite teams that changed up.

I'm really trying to figure out if you're countering what I'm saying. The US National teams have just recently instituted these academies. It's a totally brand new set-up.

No...I haven't discussed the national academies...They are a development beyond the older system that was in place when we were competing.

My son was selected for a development academy years ago. The scene back then started with state players being picked for a two day try (invitation), regional players then were picked in another two day try (invitation) from the various states for a regional development academy (we were southeast). From that, were winnowed out kids for the national...my son did not go further than the southeastern.

The high school teams and the elite teams in Florida had conflicts.... in schedules, the high school teams had their own camp in summer, etc. And there were conflicts between HS coaching staffs and Team coaching staffs re recruitment of players. As the elite teams grew in strength, they competed directly with high school soccer and were more prestigious to play for. The high schools tried to attenuate club tournaments during school months (before and during the HS season). Labor Day was, way back, traditionally the closing of the club soccer season. Then the clubs just broke away and kids either played HS or for the club.

The elite teams built an interlocking system...building travel teams at U11 and then carefully nurturing talent as kids moved up through U13 and up. By the time kids got to high school, the best soccer players had a long relationship with a club. Wearing certain club jersies to school was a status symbol.

Kids ending up having to make a choice.

Now, this was only true in the areas where they have really elite teams, Dade, Tampa Bay, Tallahassee (included North Florida), and a few other locales. The level of club soccer I am discussing did not exist in many counties.

 

[upstater]

No...I haven't discussed the national academies...They are a development beyond the older system that was in place when we were competing.

My son was selected for a development academy years ago. The scene back then started with state players being picked for a two day try (invitation), regional players then were picked in another two day try (invitation) from the various states for a regional development academy (we were southeast). From that, were winnowed out kids for the national...my son did not go further than the southeastern.

The high school teams and the elite teams in Florida had conflicts.... in schedules, the high school teams had their own camp in summer, etc. And there were conflicts between HS coaching staffs and Team coaching staffs re recruitment of players. As the elite teams grew in strength, they competed directly with high school soccer and were more prestigious to play for. The high schools tried to attenuate club tournaments during school months (before and during the HS season). Labor Day was, way back, traditionally the closing of the club soccer season. Then the clubs just broke away and kids either played HS or for the club.

The elite teams built an interlocking system...building travel teams at U11 and then carefully nurturing talent as kids moved up through U13 and up. By the time kids got to high school, the best soccer players had a long relationship with a club. Wearing certain club jersies to school was a status symbol.

Kids ending up having to make a choice.

Now, this was only true in the areas where they have really elite teams, Dade, Tampa Bay, Tallahassee (included North Florida), and a few other locales. The level of club soccer I am discussing did not exist in many counties.

Yes, your experience is similar to here. The big difference now is that the high schools are completely cut out. There is no coexistence at all. The academies are also fully functioning on the local level in many regions of the country, but not anywhere. MLS is taking part.

Just to give you a sense of what is going on, we have three or four elite clubs in my region that compete nationally. Black Watch is one of them. Some of these clubs have a total win now mentality. When they take on the club affiliated with the national academy, they sometimes beat the brains out of the academies elite players especially at the lower levels. The difference is one of approach. The academy kids are drilled, drilled, drilled into proper techniques. They cut very few corners. The coaches would rather they follow guidelines systematically than win games. It's all about development for them.

 

[billybud]

I enjoyed the different "cultures" of soccer...

Our British/Scot coaches in Florida believed in a physical brand of soccer with "hard men" in the mid field...they also taught a lot of passes over the top to flying wings/forwards.....

The South and Central American coaches built from the back...triangles, wall passes...technical footwork in traffic, throughballs off of ball movement... in closer to the box.

When we played the south american and central american teams in Dade County...we encountered terrific technical skill, almost unreal unspoken communication, and speed. When we played Black Watch, it was always a brutal game against their very big and very physical players.

We lost to Coral Gables in the State U-16 finals...they had an all hispanic team with great technical skill. My son played a lot because we lost a forward for the game because he was ejected in the semi final game for fighting.

 

[upstater]

I enjoyed the different "cultures" of soccer...

Our British/Scot coaches in Florida believed in a physical brand of soccer with "hard men" in the mid field...they also taught a lot of passes over the top to flying wings/forwards.....

Wow, that is old school. The Brits here now openly ridicule it. But since I knew practically nothing about soccer practices/training (I only played pickup growing up), I asked a Brit friend here for some advice for teaching young kids, and it was exactly like this. The funny thing is that the more experienced coaches thought some of the drills and strategies were novel.

 

[billybud]

I think that bthe success of the World Cup teams who play "the beautiful game" has changed the european mode of play to match. And ours in the US.

In the days of the great Giggs at Man U...it was brutal physical play at midfield and Giggs tearing after long balls.

We, at our club, emphasized the passing game and ball movement made so poular 20 years ago by the Brazillions.

 

[SouthronCross]

Actually it was John Casteen at UVA that pushed for VPI before Mark Warner had any idea that the discussions about expansion were even going on in the ACC. I hate that Mark Warner is given credit for making that happen when it was happening before he even got involved. He takes credit like most politicians for something he didn't even do.

John Casteen and Charles Steger at Virginia Tech built a great relationship with eash other and often worked together to lobby the General Assembly to get things for the public universities in the state.

I will take your word on it. But, the way it was reported outside of VA was that Gov Warner was the instigator, not Mr Casteen. It was a 7-2 vote in favor of expansion, and, VPI was NOT included in that expansion. Only when Warner got involved was when VPI first got mentioned here.

 

[btstimpy]

I will take your word on it. But, the way it was reported outside of VA was that Gov Warner was the instigator, not Mr Casteen. It was a 7-2 vote in favor of expansion, and, VPI was NOT included in that expansion. Only when Warner got involved was when VPI first got mentioned here.

During the 9-0 first vote to explore expansion that directed John Swofford to set up the site visits to the candidate schools Syracuse, Boston College, and Miami which ultimately ended up being a public spectacle enabling the opposition to organize at UNC and Duke and in the Big East, John Casteen told the coucil of presidents that he would only vote yes at the final vote on expansion if Virginia Tech was included. At that time Mark Warner didn't have any idea what the ACC was discussing or doing, and John Casteen had revealed his intentions. Many UVA fans were furious at Casteen due to the rivalry. We at UVA thought it wouldn't matter though because the first vote was 9-0, but when UNC and Duke voted no on the second vote, all of a sudden John Casteen's vote mattered. Mark Warner had no effect on John Casteen's vote. He had already told the Council how he was going to vote. Ironically it was UNC and Duke that put Virginia Tech in the ACC by voting no. What Mark Warner did though was show up at every Hokie event, party, and game during that time saying he was fighting for the Hokies. It was rather nauseating if you knew the truth.

 

[billybud]

Duke and UNC fought tooth and nail to keep the ACC from expanding...luddites!

 

[upstater]

Your right...mothers especially in middle class and up regions won't allow their kids to play FB anymore in HS !People are getting educated (and a bit soft) to the adverse effects of head injuries though I think it could be just as bad in other sports that just don't get the exposure? How about Rugby where they don't even use helmets?Do they have similar problems?

Rugby does have similar problems, and soccer does too. They have done studies of heading balls constantly, and it's not good. But in Rugby the injuries are different. It's very hard to get a clean hit on someone carrying the ball because the ball gets out to the next player quickly and because tacklers lose advantage when they lay out a runner. As a tackler, your best bet is to form tackle by using your inside shoulder so that you end up on top of the ball carrier, so that you can pop right up and follow the ball. This means that you don't hit the runner hard, and teams that try to pound the opposition in that fashion will quickly find themselves getting overlapped and giving up tries.

 

[SouthronCross]

Duke and UNC fought tooth and nail to keep the ACC from expanding...luddites!

Not 100 percent true. Both 100 percent agreed with expanding to 10 teams by brining in just Miami.

It was expansion beyond 10 that they 100 percent opposed.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I played Football, Basketball, and, Baseball.
I came from s great football area of CT. Quite a few good football players came out of that area of less than 50,000. I played against Floyd Little and a guy name Ron Gardin who was a 30 year rookie tor the Colts in Superbowl 5 .
6 or 7 others made it to the NFL. It was not unusual to have between 5k and 10k at a game. My team Captain went to Rutgers were he led them in rushing as a junior then played strictly LB as a senior winning 3 game balls at that position.
It was very blue collar. simalar in make up to the old Western PA steel towns.
I coached my first BB team at 19 (an under 16 Y team)
When it came time for my son to play it seemed all my old football buddies were limping around so we put him into soccer.
I fell in love with the game and coached for the next 14 years.
I approached soccer like basketball and my teams were noted for passing, I studied the game and benifitted from some great asst. coaches. I love watching the US National team and I don't understand why Phoenix didn't get an MSL team. Other than UConn and Soccer I really watch few sports on TV. I have the Direct TV sports package that has SNY specifically for UConn.

I'll watch a little ASU football (I took Spainish at our community ASU branch )and late college basketball games especially LMU as my grandson played basketball with their PG.
The area I grew up in has become much more white collar middleclass but football is still king. Like hockey it can be an expensive sport to play. My old high school has artificial turf and permanent lighting. Which reflects its transition into a fairly wealthy bedroom community.
In fact the footballers have given up baseball and Lacrosse is the Spring Sport of choice.