Hoopgurlz Updated Rankings! | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Hoopgurlz Updated Rankings!

JaQuaya Miller (Kentridge HS, a little south of Seattle) disappeared from the '19 rankings. I think she was top 50 or 60 before, now not even top 100.
 
nwhoopfan said:
JaQuaya Miller (Kentridge HS, a little south of Seattle) disappeared from the '19 rankings. I think she was top 50 or 60 before, now not even top 100.
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I noticed that, too. She was actually top 20 for a while. I'm not aware of her having an injury and I think she still has "Top-50 player" caliber offers.

Another disappearance was Te-Hina Paopao from Southern California (same HS as Kelsey Plum) who was in the top 10 for the c/o 2020 but now nowhere to be found in the top 60. In her case, I know she was sidelined by an injury. She was also top 10 for Prospects Nation before falling a few spots in their last update, but still top 20.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
ESPN/Hoopgurlz rankings are done by Dan Olson, of Collegiate Girls Basketball Report (CGBR).
Olson updates the CGBR rankings almost weekly, based on evaluations from tournaments he attends and players he sees. I tracked rankings for Duke commits Jaida Patrick and Jennifer Ezeh on CGBR over the summer, and their respective rankings changed at least five different times from June through August.
For the last 5 years, ESPN has published Olson's rankings 2-4 times per year (depending on the year). These are snapshot rankings, at different points in time (specifically, the date(s) of publication). CGBR is a subscription service with specific evaluations of several hundred players per class, whose rankings vary throughout the years (as I noted).
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@CamrnCrz1974, most people here don't track CGBR. To be more specific about my " long long overdue" comment I am speaking strictly of ESPN and Hoopgurls rankings and overdue=7 Months.
In January 2018 Dan via ESPN published this article naming the top 10 HS players.
Dan Olson ranks top 10 prospects in high school basketball.
In April 2018 Hoopgurlz ranking were updated but not consistent with the January article because per that article Haley Jones should have been #1 in the 2019 class.
Hoopgurlz updated 2019 rankings
I emailed Dan about this contradiction and received no response. Samantha Brunelle remained #1 in the Hoopgurlz ranking until September of 2018 when ESPN published an article in January indicating that she was no longer #1 in the class. None of this would have mattered until Samantha committed to ND in Mid-April. What should have been a partial simple answer to a straight forward question:
Q: Why did Geno stop pursuing Samantha?
A: Because, Geno began pursuing higher ranked player(s).
It became about something else and many (perhaps most) were still referring to Samantha as #1 in the class.
 
Who the heck was the freshman who defended Brunelle so well in the state tournament? That seemed to somewhat hurt her reputation as being a number one recruit.
 
MilfordHusky said:
I think it's turning 22 in the calendar year.
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I suspect that the requirement to be drafted might change by the time Fudd becomes a senior in high school. The big money is being paid over seas. Many players from over seas's have long jumped to being professional early on. The days when the WNBA was the controlling agency for professional basketball is long past. The WNBA does not have the same clout for womens basketball that the NBA does for men, purely for financial reasons.

Players are choosing colleges based on their basketball careers rather than educational ones. For certain athletes the days of the scholarship being more important are over. For top athletes the scholar ship is secondary to their professional careers so why make graduation a requirement for the draft. That seems like copying the NBA that has a vested interest in keeping the college game as a farm system. Even they do not have a graduation requirement.

What is wrong with making a player eligible for the draft once they have played as a professional for a certain length of time. They at that time are no longer eligible for college anyway. In baseball they do not make graduation from college as a requirement so why basketball?
 
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Some (former) UCONN 2020 recruits and Philly Belles have really gone downhill:

Former #1 (a few updates ago) Kylee Watson has dropped all the way down to #30.

Maddie Burke I believe once a top 15 isn’t even in the top 60 anymore.

Another drop I didn’t fully understand was Alli Campbell. Went from I believe #14 to #24. Made the final 18 for U17 and was the PA GPOY. I didn’t get the opportunity to see her compete on the EYBL circuit as I did before she switched to the Belles, but possibly was something there
 
DaBball said:
Some (former) UCONN 2020 recruits and Philly Belles have really gone downhill:

Former #1 (a few updates ago) Kylee Watson has dropped all the way down to #30.

Maddie Burke I believe once a top 15 isn’t even in the top 60 anymore.

Another drop I didn’t fully understand was Alli Campbell. Went from I believe #14 to #24. Made the final 18 for U17 and was the PA GPOY. I didn’t get the opportunity to see her compete on the EYBL circuit as I did before she switched to the Belles, but possibly was something there
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dropping down into the 20's or 30's doesn't mean the player won't have a very successful college career.........here are just a few players that managed to make a name for themselves despite some mediocre Hoopgurlz rankings........Hebbard #40, McCowan #45, Fuerhing #60, Gustafson #80, Laksa #95..........while maybe not superstars, I think Watson and Campbell will both be fine at the next level...........
 
Charliebball said:
dropping down into the 20's or 30's doesn't mean the player won't have a very successful college career....here are just a few players that managed to make a name for themselves despite some mediocre Hoopgurlz rankings...Hebbard #40, McCowan #45, Fuerhing #60, Gustafson #80, Laksa #95.....while maybe not superstars, I think Watson and Campbell will both be fine at the next level......
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True, but the players you mentioned were all "under-ranked" coming out of high school. Beard and McCaughtry are also 2 famous players who were under-ranked. That's different from someone being highly ranked (top 10), then dropping way down.

I'm sure there are examples you can find that would support your point - that a top 10 kid dropping to the 30's can still be "fine" for their college teams, but I do believe it's an indication that the player in question might not be as successful as previously thought, especially for a program like UCONN (or any other top 10 program that routinely has AA's on their teams)...
 
DaBball said:
Some (former) UCONN 2020 recruits and Philly Belles have really gone downhill:

Former #1 (a few updates ago) Kylee Watson has dropped all the way down to #30.

Maddie Burke I believe once a top 15 isn’t even in the top 60 anymore.

Another drop I didn’t fully understand was Alli Campbell. Went from I believe #14 to #24. Made the final 18 for U17 and was the PA GPOY. I didn’t get the opportunity to see her compete on the EYBL circuit as I did before she switched to the Belles, but possibly was something there
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Agree. This is what I have written for her in the Recruiting Update that I maintain over at McGraw's Bench.

"6’0” guard from Pa. whose Bellwood-Antis HS won a 2018 state title. Made final 18 of National u17 trial. Played for Philly Belles in AAU ball this summer and was cited as a key 2020 performer at Annual USJN Ntl. Championships by Jason Key, Premier Basketball Report & The Jukes Report."

Granted, Mr. Key is but one analyst but I have a coaching buddy who was at that tournament and he thought Campbell "was consistently the best player on the Belles" in D.C. and had a few outstanding games.

When the players grades don't drop a lot, perhaps the evaluator has seen some folks who he/she thinks have been performing well recently. Or that evaluator hasn't seen the person who dropped much recently?

Some of the precipitous ones do cause a second glance. How else to explain the drop from #29 to #56 of Malu Tshitenge-Mutombo, who played well with Azzi Fudd in both high school and AAU ball. Well enough to garner the attention of Muffet McGraw and take an OV to South Bend in early September. On the other hand, Mik Vaughn in 2017 was never rated that highly but was performing very well for the Irish before injuring her ACL in practice.

Campbell is going to do well, I believe, based on her performance in making the finals of the U.S. National U17 Team tryout. Looking at the rankings from another perspective, another player with a familiar name just broke into the HG rankings: Maddy Westbeld is at 45. Expect her to rise even higher...she had a very good summer. Someone was watching.
 
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EricLA said:
True, but the players you mentioned were all "under-ranked" coming out of high school. Beard and McCaughtry are also 2 famous players who were under-ranked. That's different from someone being highly ranked (top 10), then dropping way down.

I'm sure there are examples you can find that would support your point - that a top 10 kid dropping to the 30's can still be "fine" for their college teams, but I do believe it's an indication that the player in question might not be as successful as previously thought, especially for a program like UCONN (or any other top 10 program that routinely has AA's on their teams)...
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these ratings are so subjective and can move up or down based on a couple of weekends of good or bad play........as far as I'm concerned if you make it into the top 100 in Hoopgurlz or the other known ratings services you should be a solid DI basketball player and once you are on a team those rankings no longer mean a thing..........
 
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Charliebball said:
these ratings are so subjective and can move up or down based on a couple of weekends of good or bad play...as far as I'm concerned if you make it into the top 100 in Hoopgurlz or the other known ratings services you should be a solid DI basketball player and once you are on a team those rankings no longer mean a thing.....
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Top 100 sure. But players 50+ generally have nowhere near the potential of top 10 kids, or even top 25 kids. I don't dispute that the rankings gurus get it wrong sometimes, but the services are trying to either tell how good kids are now, or what their potential is, or some combo of the 2. Frankly I think they get it right more than they get it wrong.

Side note (not directed at you), I've heard people say "I could rank kids more accurately than these guys". If that were true, there would be more people ranking players. It's impossible to see every kid frequently, and sometimes I think the job is pretty thankless as most everyone has some sort of complaint or another. Geno certainly looks for kids regardless of their rankings, but I appreciate what the services do for those of us who love WHoops but can't get out to see all these kids play...
 
EricLA said:
Top 100 sure. But players 50+ generally have nowhere near the potential of top 10 kids, or even top 25 kids. I don't dispute that the rankings gurus get it wrong sometimes, but the services are trying to either tell how good kids are now, or what their potential is, or some combo of the 2. Frankly I think they get it right more than they get it wrong.

Side note (not directed at you), I've heard people say "I could rank kids more accurately than these guys". If that were true, there would be more people ranking players. It's impossible to see every kid frequently, and sometimes I think the job is pretty thankless as most everyone has some sort of complaint or another. Geno certainly looks for kids regardless of their rankings, but I appreciate what the services do for those of us who love WHoops but can't get out to see all these kids play...
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I've been lucky enough to see enough really good high school players to know what good is but I would never claim I could do as good a job as those guys............that said I sometimes disagree with their ratings or lack there of as in the case of one Dara Mabrey..........
 
Charliebball said:
these ratings are so subjective and can move up or down based 8 on a couple of weekends of good or bad play...as far as I'm concerned if you make it into the top 100 in Hoopgurlz or the other known ratings services you should be a solid DI basketball player and once you are on a team those rankings no longer mean a thing.....
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The ratings are singular data points and yes somewhat subjective. Over the past few years it is not that unusual to see players make a similar drop (or jump) that Kylee Watson has made between her freshmen and Junior years. In 2017 it was Kasiyahna Kushkituah who went from being top 10 all the way down to #57 in Hoopgurlz. In the 2018 class Valencia Myers went from being USA basketball caliber top 20 in Hoopgurlz down to #63.
It is also very important, @HuskyNan has made this point repeatedly from her experience, that you understand the philosophies that is used by the different services. Simple example: some services rate based on current level of competition or how a player performs against HS competition. Other services project how a player will perform at the next level against college competition.
A 5'11" HS PF that is dominating the competition would be ranked higher by the first service while a 6'2" PF in the same conference that is less dominant would be ranked higher by the second service.
 
CocoHusky said:
The ratings are singular data points and yes somewhat subjective. Over the past few years it is not that unusual to see players make a similar drop (or jump) that Kylee Watson has made between her freshmen and Junior years. In 2017 it was Kasiyahna Kushkituah who went from being top 10 all the way down to #57 in Hoopgurlz. In the 2018 class Valencia Myers went from being USA basketball caliber top 20 in Hoopgurlz down to #63.
It is also very important, @HuskyNan has made this point repeatedly from her experience, that you understand the philosophies that is used by the different services. Simple example: some services rate based on current level of competition or how a player performs against HS competition. Other services project how a player will perform at the next level against college competition.
A 5'11" HS PF that is dominating the competition would be ranked higher by the first service while a 6'2" PF in the same conference that is less dominant would be ranked higher by the second service.
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it seems to me that the real skill comes with the projection at the college level part...........there's high school dominance and then there's DI dominance and often something gets lost in the transition........
 
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CocoHusky said:
Damn! I would have paid money to be at this event looks like Leilani Kapinus got the best of Paige. Is there a Paige highlight reel from the same event?
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note sure just ran into it on Hansen's twitter
 
Charliebball said:
note sure just ran into it on Hansen's twitter
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Alright I'll start (continue?) the hype machine for Leilani Kapinus! Best defensive footwork I have seen since Kelly Faris, Gabby Williams type hops, unique as a BIG power combo guard.
 
CocoHusky said:
Alright I'll start (continue?) the hype machine for Leilani Kapinus! Best defensive footwork I have seen since Kelly Faris, Gabby Williams type hops, unique as a BIG power combo guard.
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but can she shoot from the outside? Haven't seen enough to know for sure........
 
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