Hockey East move is official.

[freescooter]

I think that the feel of theBeanpot, especially on Championship night, is almost unrivaled in any sport...it is one of those things that has to be experienced. you can't describe it. And I think the intensity is really related to the history of the participating schools, their proximity to each other, I mean you can spit out the window of a Bu building and hit both Northeastern and BC, but also their backgrounds. Harvard was and remains, well, Harvard. BC and BU are both on Commonwealth Ave. One historically even in the 50s and 60s when the Beanpot originated, Catholic and heavily first and second generation Irish, Italian, Polish. BU, the old line Protestant Methodist school that saw itself as better than BC and Northeastern but had an inferior complex to the college across the river...and then you had Northeastern which was the workingman's school, with their co-op model. Even BC viewed them as little more than a glorified trade school...So this thing had everything..class warfare, ethnic hatred, religious conflicts,people with chips on their shoulders and they all played in the same arena, recruited the same kids, many of whom knew each other and played with or against each other in high school, and you could walk from one school to the other. Then consider that through the 1950s and 1960s, BU and Northeastern shared the Boston Arena (Now NU's Mathews Arena) as a home and practice facility, and in the really early years of the tournament, that was BC's home too. They moved to McHugh Forum later, around 1960 or so. The Beanpot began in the early 1950s, '52 I think, so you had 3 teams sharing home ice. All these things contribute to why it is what it is and why you can't recreate it with "other" teams....nobody else has the same history nor the same "tensions."

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

BCU's Grey Poupon-colored hockey uniforms are a glove fit for a few too many of the school's inexplicably pompous recent alumni. The uniforms aren't quite on par with Maryland's turtle skins or whatever they are, but Flipper must have squeezed CCM, Bauer, or Nike for some serious dough. No doubt, it must confuse the few French's yellow bedecked stupor fans. Regrettably, Jerry York's created a monster.

 

[freescooter]

Building off the above, while Frozen Fours and NCAA Regionals are far more important there's a different feel in the arena -a more corporate, ambivalent environment outside of the schools allotments just like in basketball.

The closest thing I could equate it to for you guys would be the semis of the BE tournament where it's UConn, Cuse, GTown, & say Nova, except all 4 schools are within a 3 mile radius of each other.

One other thing that helps make this Tournament work, I think, is that everyone has a shot. And that is something you wouldn't get in a Beanpot basketball event, for example. Harvard, BC, BU and Northeastern all play "at the same level" more or less, in hockey. although Northeastern has never been quite as successful, and you can make the case that Harvard and the ECAC has fallen behind in recent years, they aren't so far behind the other two that you think they have no chance. While the current state of BC basketball is, let's charitably say a mess, under "normal" conditions they would be virtually unchallenged against the other 3. Related to that is the tourney structure. Harvard and Northeastern are going to the finals some years. It isn't rigged to always have BC-BU because every 3 years, BC-BU is the first round. Even if they are tied for #1 in the country...And to some degree that helpd to legitimize the event.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

One other thing that helps make this Tournament work, I think, is that everyone has a shot. And that is something you wouldn't get in a Beanpot basketball event, for example. Harvard, BC, BU and Northeastern all play "at the same level" more or less, in hockey. although Northeastern has never been quite as successful, and you can make the case that Harvard and the ECAC has fallen behind in recent years, they aren't so far behind the other two that you think they have no chance. While the current state of BC basketball is, let's charitably say a mess, under "normal" conditions they would be virtually unchallenged against the other 3. Related to that is the tourney structure. Harvard and Northeastern are going to the finals some years. It isn't rigged to always have BC-BU because every 3 years, BC-BU is the first round. Even if they are tied for #1 in the country...And to some degree that helpd to legitimize the event.

Sure, Harvard and Northeastern "have a chance", but the gap between those two programs and where BC and BU are is very large. Granted, the current gap between BC and everyone else in the nation is very large, but the point is still the same. In fact, one of the knocks on the Beanpot of late is that it's the same result every year, not that I (usually) have a problem with that. One of the things that made the 09 one so great was that it was the first time in a LONG time that one of Harvard and Northeastern were highly ranked in the national polls, and were far ahead of one of BC/BU. That rarely happens.


On a related note, apparently the president of XL said at the press conference today that he was going to bid on getting the Hockey East tournament championships brought to the XL. Every hockey writer at the event subsequently tweeted laughter at him. Have fun with that one, pal. You can't even keep an AHL team and you want a nationally televised conference championship brought to your arena? Sounds good.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

First, BC's gold jersey are a work of art you shut your mouth (and I believe BC was 13-0 in them this year)

Second, while there has been some talk of the event getting "stale" (only BC & BU have won since 1993), I tell that person to attend the finals -regardless of who is playing.

Third, to veer away from the Beanpot and towards something more relevant towards you (and to lob a little grenade). Tell your president to let sleeping dogs lie no need to draw attentio to yourself from the most dominant program in the sport.

What did she say? And yes, the event is not going stale at all. If NU and Harvard suck, that's their fault.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I'm a Boston hater as well. Living up here has only reinforced that, grew up in Fairfield County. I enjoyed going to the Whale for the BC-Yale game this past Thanksgiving weekend (brought back memories from high school where Prep was there every year) so I hope CT hockey continues to improve.

As for what was said, "We look forward to beating whoever is first, especially Boston College". Relax lady.

Eek, yeah, maybe that's just because they're the top program and defending champs right now? Probably not. I would love to see a game at Yale, though.

But yes, it'll be great to see if they can build the program and build the fanbase. UConn could turn into a very strong addition to the conference, even better than UMass or UVM. It was encouraging to hear them note the possibility of moving HE games back to campus in the future, that's definitely a step in the right direction. Also heard from the HE commish that apparently most HE teams will be playing UConn OOC in 13-14, though I have trouble seeing any of the Big 4 coming to Storrs/Hartford, certainly not BU, BC, or UNH. Maybe Maine because Timmay's a moron.

A CT tournament would be a nice addition, especially since Ylae and QU are doing a good job building their program. Unfortunately there's really no viable fourth team, Sacred Heart is one of the worst programs in the country and absolutely no one follows them. Maybe UMass instead? For reference, Ylae is not a type-o.

 

[Sky ball]

The ECAC, because it existed for basketball as well, was originally not a "league" in the sense that you had a conference, a schedule and a champion. It was an administrative organization that trained officials so that they would be available for northeastern independents.

Although not a "conference" in for standings, scheduling etc. It was more than an administrative org. The "ECAC Basketball Tournament Champions" went to the NCAA's just like they do now. I am not 100% sure it was an official ECAC Tournament or the ECAC put 4 teams into the NCAA 1st round? I remember going to Providence and watching UConn play Syracuse in the mid/late 70's for an NCAA berth. Syr had Leo Routins and I believe these were Corney Thompson years?

 

[freescooter]

I'm a Boston hater as well. Living up here has only reinforced that, grew up in Fairfield County. I enjoyed going to the Whale for the BC-Yale game this past Thanksgiving weekend (brought back memories from high school where Prep was there every year) so I hope CT hockey continues to improve.

As for what was said, "We look forward to beating whoever is first, especially Boston College". Relax lady.

claver, She said that because she knew it would get a positive response form the locals...no different from when the owner of the Sox referred to the Yanks as the Evil Empire...you have to know your audience and President Herbst form what I can tell, knows hers...

 

[businesslawyer]

Although not a "conference" in for standings, scheduling etc. It was more than an administrative org. The "ECAC Basketball Tournament Champions" went to the NCAA's just like they do now. I am not 100% sure it was an official ECAC Tournament or the ECAC put 4 teams into the NCAA 1st round? I remember going to Providence and watching UConn play Syracuse in the mid/late 70's for an NCAA berth. Syr had Leo Routins and I believe these were Corney Thompson years?

I said the ECAC was "originally" not a league. When the NCAA Tourney expanded, the cut a deal with the ECAC that it could send 3 or 4 teams. The ECAC organized seperate geographic pools and ran 4-team tourneys for an NCAA berth. But that still wasn't a real league, in that UConn, in the New England pool, and VCU, in the southernmost area, still belonged to the same organization and didn't have seperate organizations that met and voted.

The game you're thinking of, by the way, was an NCAA tourney game the year Magic beat Bird in the final. UConn and Syracuse were in different ECAC regions.

So while it's certainly possible that I could be wrong ....

 

[freescooter]

I think a Connecticut tournament might be pretty decent, too. Yale, UCONN, Quinnipiac and you'd almost have to include Sacred Heart. Play it in Bridgeport sometimes and hartford others perhaps. I actually like Harbor Yard. It is really the "right" size for an arena whereas the XL is really too big for the market. Seats 8400 for hockey which is fine for Connecticut. XL seats almost twice as many. too big for most basketball games too...

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

i am a prep alum btw. the whale was our 2nd home ice. ever year we always packed that place. fun times. f hamden! f ndwh! f wh! and double f ndfl!!!!!

It certainly seems like a very old school collegiate atmosphere, even if it is an Ivy venue, similar to Maine, BU's old Walter Brown, and Matthews at Northeastern. That's part of the reason playing in a quarter-full cavernous XL Center is a terrible idea.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

FWIW I'm not a Matthews fan at all, much prefer Agannis every day of the week.

We agree on far too many things, there is exactly one row of good seating in Matthews, every place else completely sucks. And the place is half empty most of the time so the atmosphere is more akin to a morgue.

You're also right about PC, they're making some good strides down there since canning Army, they had two horrendous hires in a row before landing Leaman.

A very realistic goal for UConn is to get into that second tier just below the powerhouse 3 or 4 that competes for the last home ice slot, and challenges to make the HE semis. That would put the program in a very realistic competitive place in the league, possibly snag one of the last at-large bids into the NCAA tournament, and that would keep the people coming. It's really good for the conference to have one or two of the "outsiders" make the Garden ever year as the underdog going up against the big shots. Certainly would be a great experience for UConn to be that team.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Is it October yet?

 

[kingdobbs]

I said the ECAC was "originally" not a league. When the NCAA Tourney expanded, the cut a deal with the ECAC that it could send 3 or 4 teams. The ECAC organized seperate geographic pools and ran 4-team tourneys for an NCAA berth. But that still wasn't a real league, in that UConn, in the New England pool, and VCU, in the southernmost area, still belonged to the same organization and didn't have seperate organizations that met and voted.

ECAC hockey was similar. In the days of the four team tournament, there were (a) only two conferences anyway (the WCHA and the ECAC), and there were two "automatic bids" that went to Eastern teams. These weren't necessarily the ECAC champions, or even the top two in the standings, just the two the committee thought were the best two in the region. For example, in 1963, Harvard won the ECAC regular season (by best win%), and the league tournament, but the committee invited Boston College and Clarkson instead. A year later, Providence won both and got a bid to the tourney, but sixth place Rensselaer was the second invitee.

I think a Connecticut tournament might be pretty decent, too. Yale, UCONN, Quinnipiac and you'd almost have to include Sacred Heart. Play it in Bridgeport sometimes and hartford others perhaps. I actually like Harbor Yard. It is really the "right" size for an arena whereas the XL is really too big for the market. Seats 8400 for hockey which is fine for Connecticut. XL seats almost twice as many. too big for most basketball games too...

Non-conference slots are still the major stumbling block for this idea, although it's lessened now that HEA appears to be adopting a 22 game schedule the year UConn joins, which will give UConn 12 non-cons. Quinnipiac and Yale also play 22 games as members of the ECAC, but Yale will be limited by the more stringent Ivy League limit of 29 games (so QU will have 12 and Yale 7), and it remains to be seen what the AHA will look like in 2014-15 for Sacred Heart's schedule. QU and Yale may not also want to give up a non-con for a potential rematch (while, yes, the Beanpot does such a thing, this is no Beanpot), so this hypothetical tournament may end up having a showcase format where Quinny and Yale wouldn't play each other.

 

[freescooter]

ECAC hockey was similar. In the days of the four team tournament, there were (a) only two conferences anyway (the WCHA and the ECAC), and there were two "automatic bids" that went to Eastern teams. These weren't necessarily the ECAC champions, or even the top two in the standings, just the two the committee thought were the best two in the region. For example, in 1963, Harvard won the ECAC regular season (by best win%), and the league tournament, but the committee invited Boston College and Clarkson instead. A year later, Providence won both and got a bid to the tourney, but sixth place Rensselaer was the second invitee.



Non-conference slots are still the major stumbling block for this idea, although it's lessened now that HEA appears to be adopting a 22 game schedule the year UConn joins, which will give UConn 12 non-cons. Quinnipiac and Yale also play 22 games as members of the ECAC, but Yale will be limited by the more stringent Ivy League limit of 29 games (so QU will have 12 and Yale 7), and it remains to be seen what the AHA will look like in 2014-15 for Sacred Heart's schedule. QU and Yale may not also want to give up a non-con for a potential rematch (while, yes, the Beanpot does such a thing, this is no Beanpot), so this hypothetical tournament may end up having a showcase format where Quinny and Yale wouldn't play each other.

ECAC hockey was similar. In the days of the four team tournament, there were (a) only two conferences anyway (the WCHA and the ECAC), and there were two "automatic bids" that went to Eastern teams. These weren't necessarily the ECAC champions, or even the top two in the standings, just the two the committee thought were the best two in the region. For example, in 1963, Harvard won the ECAC regular season (by best win%), and the league tournament, but the committee invited Boston College and Clarkson instead. A year later, Providence won both and got a bid to the tourney, but sixth place Rensselaer was the second invitee.



Non-conference slots are still the major stumbling block for this idea, although it's lessened now that HEA appears to be adopting a 22 game schedule the year UConn joins, which will give UConn 12 non-cons. Quinnipiac and Yale also play 22 games as members of the ECAC, but Yale will be limited by the more stringent Ivy League limit of 29 games (so QU will have 12 and Yale 7), and it remains to be seen what the AHA will look like in 2014-15 for Sacred Heart's schedule. QU and Yale may not also want to give up a non-con for a potential rematch (while, yes, the Beanpot does such a thing, this is no Beanpot), so this hypothetical tournament may end up having a showcase format where Quinny and Yale wouldn't play each other.

I had forgotten about the Yale schedule thing, so that's a problem. And I know this isn't the Beanpot, but there are ways to make it work, maybe Yale-Quinipiac is a conference game in those years they play each other in round 1. Who knows. As an aside, Quinipiac, I think, has some minor risk of being pushed into the background if UConn is reasonably successful in Hockey East. So I would think they would likely favor something like this.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

QU certainly could get pushed to the background in terms of publicity in the state, but they do have the facilities to continue to be a competitive program in ECAC, they probably would just have to do even more of their recruiting in Canada and outside of the northeast.

 

[kingdobbs]

I had forgotten about the Yale schedule thing, so that's a problem. And I know this isn't the Beanpot, but there are ways to make it work, maybe Yale-Quinipiac is a conference game in those years they play each other in round 1. Who knows. As an aside, Quinipiac, I think, has some minor risk of being pushed into the background if UConn is reasonably successful in Hockey East. So I would think they would likely favor something like this.

Well, I don't think it's a huge deal breaker for the Yalies, especially if they get to play it in Bridgeport; they've been playing an "Ivy shootout" tournament at the beginning of the season with the other Ivies (minus Cornell and Harvard, the latter of which already sacrifices two NC matches to the Beanpot, and in some years a third to another one of the Beanpot teams), so I think the idea of "playing league opponents in non-con matchups" is not precisely anathema. While a "Nutmeg" tournament certainly doesn't provide an "Ivy camaraderie" feeling that the Ivy Shootout does, it's certainly something Yale might think of.

I think the toughest position on this is Sacred Heart's, though; while the exposure would certainly be great, I think they'd have to know that they're sort of the black sheep competition wise.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

It could be modeled after the Great Lakes Invitational with UConn, QU, Yale, plus an invited team. I agree SHU would be a poor addition because of how bad they are and how few fans they have, but I doubt they'd turn down an invite, if anything, they'd push for one to get more relevance. But those three plus a different yearly invited team might be a good choice, probably a Hockey East team or top tier ECAC team like Cornell.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

aic isn't anything special i know but they would also fit the tney if shu is a no go.

ugh, no. they're the only team in the country that is worse and has a smaller following than SHU. if you're going to go into Massachusetts, take Amherst.

 

[kingdobbs]

ugh, no. they're the only team in the country that is worse and has a smaller following than SHU. if you're going to go into Massachusetts, take Amherst.

That could make for an interesting little grouping. UConn and UMass play home and home, Quinny and Yale play home and home, the rubber match of the series plays at a neutral site for some form of trophy (QU and Yale do play for the not-very-well-known Heroes' Hat, which used to be contested between UConn and QU); the winners play the cup championship, the losers play the consolation.

 

[HartfordHank]

It could be modeled after the Great Lakes Invitational with UConn, QU, Yale, plus an invited team. I agree SHU would be a poor addition because of how bad they are and how few fans they have, but I doubt they'd turn down an invite, if anything, they'd push for one to get more relevance. But those three plus a different yearly invited team might be a good choice, probably a Hockey East team or top tier ECAC team like Cornell.

A different version could be Yale and UConn from CT and Brown and PC from RI?

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

A different version could be Yale and UConn from CT and Brown and PC from RI?

Brown and PC already play their annual Mayor's Cup game, so I doubt they'd tack on another one.

 

[Waquoit]

Gampel was originally built with capacity of 8800 because the powers that be felt that UConn would not support basketball on campus & to cut corners.

I don't think that was the case. I thought it was the sized it was so as not to conflict with the Civic Center.

And add me to the under list for any attendance projections at the XL Center. There was no clamor for Hockey East. Any good crowds will be because the visitors travelled well. This will be huge money burner for the athletic department. How does this affect Title 9? Will we have to start a 2nd women's crew team?

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

About Marshall? How many years?

 

[kingdobbs]

How does this affect Title 9? Will we have to start a 2nd women's crew team?

Scholarships would be added to the existing women's crew and to women's tennis.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

About Marshall? How many years?

I was in the camp that in order to move up, he had to be canned, but I suppose he deserves a shot now that he'll have scholarships to offer recruits and the financial and administrative support of the school. But I would guess that he's on a very, very short leash since his overall performance since the program went D1 has been very, very poor in an overall bad league.

 

[zls44]

This will be huge money burner for the athletic department.

Congratulations, you just showed off how little you know about the subject.

 

[Dann]

I was in the camp that in order to move up, he had to be canned, but I suppose he deserves a shot now that he'll have scholarships to offer recruits and the financial and administrative support of the school. But I would guess that he's on a very, very short leash since his overall performance since the program went D1 has been very, very poor in an overall bad league.

well umass just stole the #1 coach on warde's sheet i assume so now where to look?

 

[uconndennis]

well umass just stole the #1 coach on warde's sheet i assume so now where to look?

He turned down umass....staying at Quinnipiac

 

[freescooter]

About Marshall? How many years?

I think you need to give him a shot. Probably 5 years...two more in AHA then 3 in Hockey East. If his teams seem to be making progress, you maybe give him a few more years. If not, he gets a thank you card and kicked up stairs as Assistant AD for facilities or something and you go out and get somebody. He was successful in D3. He has been less so in D1 though I give him some slack since UConn has 0 scholarships compared with others who had more. Remember he annually has 7 games he has little chance to win among his non-league games, almost all on the road. He hasn't done a great job, but he gets a couple of years in my book.