Hockey East move is official.

[brasssbonanzaa]

Can you please explain to me the purpose of the Beanpot? I understand the fierce rivalries of the local teams, but three out of the four are in the same conference and already play home and home every year, on top of meeting in the Hockey East Tournament some years, right? It's not like a large football conference where you sometimes don't play a team for years.

The Big Five in Philly makes a lot more sense to me; most of those teams only face each other, there.

If we played Syracuse or St John's twice in basketball in the regular season, again in the Big Apple Classic, and then again in the Big East Tournament, I think that the Classic might be redundant and/or detract from the excitement of the B.E.T.

If I had a nickel for every time....

The Beanpot really makes no sense. All it is is bragging rights tournament that holds no postseason significance whatsoever. For the rest of the year, no one really cares about it for the most part. But I'll tell you, on those two nights, it's more important than the Super Bowl. There's something about being a fan of one of those teams when you walk into the Garden for a Beanpot game. It's like a haze comes over you and you're transported to this world where the Beanpot is the single most important thing in the world. Then after it's over the winner gloats, the losers are bitter for a while, and then it fades back into irrelevance.

I've been going now for eight years, and I still can't figure out why it's such a big deal when it happens, but for those who follow the three teams, (Harvard has no fans) it's an indescribably huge deal. The playoff OT rules sure help. Also the fact that every Beanpot team that ever won a national title also won the Beanpot, so if you don't win in February, there's no use in playing the rest of the season.

Edit: Forgot to mention the atmosphere, with the balcony being taken up mostly by students and the bands. It's incredibly unique. This is from my senior year, the 09 Beanpot when NU had a good team for the first time in god knows how long, and everyone who ever thought about NU hockey in their lifetime was there. This picture was taken from the edge of the BU student section which literally abutted the NU sections, which wrapped another three sections passed the edge of this picture. Notice the security guards lining the steps between the two.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I'll begrudgingly post this too...

 

[huskymedic]

I'll begrudgingly post this too...

Now If we can keep the majority of the future Pat Mullanes, jonathon Quicks, Brian Leetchs, Craig Janneys and Chris Drurys @ home and skating as Huskies - it will get interesting!

 

[huskypantz]

These:
Minny: 10K - usually at or near capacity.
Wisconsin: ~15K - usually about 80% capacity.
Ohio State: ~18K - they average 4K if they're lucky.
Michigan: 6,800 - usually at or nearcapacity.
Michigan State: 6,500 - usually about 80% capacity.
Penn State: 6K - ???

For other reference:
Notre Dame: 5K - usually at or near capacity.

I was in Minneapolis this past week and visited Minnesota's campus. Not only do they have a 10k seat men's arena, they have a 3400 seat women's hockey arena. This is a little painful to say, but we'd be in good shape if we had an on-campus arena that was as nice as their women's facility.

 

[HartfordHank]

Can you please explain to me the purpose of the Beanpot? I understand the fierce rivalries of the local teams, but three out of the four are in the same conference and already play home and home every year, on top of meeting in the Hockey East Tournament some years, right? It's not like a large football conference where you sometimes don't play a team for years.

The Big Five in Philly makes a lot more sense to me; most of those teams only face each other, there.

If we played Syracuse or St John's twice in basketball in the regular season, again in the Big Apple Classic, and then again in the Big East Tournament, I think that the Classic might be redundant and/or detract from the excitement of the B.E.T.

Cannot be explained, needs to be experienced. Truly a special event. They have tried a basketball version but it never worked. Baseball version has not worked well either, even playing at Fenway on occasion.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Cannot be explained, needs to be experienced. Truly a special event. They have tried a basketball version but it never worked. Baseball version has not worked well either, even playing at Fenway on occasion.

I remember years ago, they had UConn, BC, UMass and Holy Cross in for hoops . PC at that time was at another level and played a more national schedule. Just before the BE was formed.

 

[whaler11]

Cannot be explained, needs to be experienced. Truly a special event. They have tried a basketball version but it never worked. Baseball version has not worked well either, even playing at Fenway on occasion.

Maybe it's because relative to the hockey teams the basketball and baseball teams suck?

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Maybe it's because relative to the hockey teams the basketball and baseball teams suck?

That's certainly a big part, of course BU and BC are two of the most successful programs of all time. Northeastern and Harvard, not nearly as much, but they have some limited success in their past.

I really don't know what it is. Before I typed out that answer I kind of sat back and thought, why the hell does this thing matter? I hadn't thought about it for months since the season ended, so I went back and watched the video I posted and was sick for the next 15 minutes with memories of Bill Arnold, so that answered that question. It really defies all logic. The tournament is completely meaningless 363 days of the year, but those two nights, it's the most important thing that will ever happen to your team.

Yes, 09 was a special one, especially with the #1-#2 match up, so I'll make myself feel a little better and post that video too.


But seriously, anyone who's a fan of the sport or wants to experience a little of what Hockey East play is like, make a trip this February, it's basically a Final Four-esque atmosphere, especially for the second Monday.

 

[HartfordHank]

I remember years ago, they had UConn, BC, UMass and Holy Cross in for hoops . PC at that time was at another level and played a more national schedule. Just before the BE was formed.

Wasn't it call the Colonial Classic?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Wasn't it call the Colonial Classic?

Yep, remember seeing Ronnie Perry play against us one year. Think ran through the last half of that decade.

 

[upstater]

I think BrassBonanza's last point is the big one. The arena is divided into quadrants by 4 schools, and the atmosphere is intense. BC and BU students ride to the game on the Green Line in the same cars. And they have to hear it from the winning fans afterward.

I've been to only 2 Beanpots since they opened the "Fleet Center" and think the atmosphere is not what is used to be. Harvard used to have plenty of fans. Also, the old Garden was stocked from the glass all the way up to the rafters with students, not just the balconies.

The old Garden was just a special place, by far the best sporting arena I have ever been in. I used to be a bigger baseball fan than hockey or basketball, but I would easily rather watch a game in the Garden than in Fenway. 1st row of the balcony was the best seat in the house. If you want to know what the Garden was like, go to Northeastern's Matthews Arena, sit in the first row of the balcony, imagine there's more light to scare away the rats, and 15,000 screaming lunatics around you.

 

[HartfordHank]

Yep, remember seeing Ronnie Perry play against us one year. Think ran through the last half of that decade.

Ronnie Perry was definitely the best High School player I ever saw in person. Maybe the best College player I ever saw play as well. Second leading scorer all time in New England behind Reggie Lewis. So many of the jumpers he took counted for two points but would have been three pointers in today's game. Might have ended up over 3,000 points for his career with the three pointer.

He was also a superb baseball player. Played in the White Sox organization after he was cut by the Celtics. His father, who was AD at Holy Cross, played on an NCAA Championship Baseball team and an NIT Champion Basketball team. Pretty impressive legacy.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

You could also show the video of Kreider undressing Nicastro

A lot of different ways this statement could go...

I never had the opportunity to see a game at the old Garden, but would have loved to. And yes, those T rides are either incredibly amazing or incredibly brutal. It's also fun to waive to the Northeastern kids having to take the E line home. It's part of the luster of the whole experience, it's basically a yearly neighborhood brawl in the stands and on the ice. Recently, a lot of the players on the teams are more friendly than they were in years past due to playing on national and/or junior teams prior to playing in college, and normal regular season games aren't usually as fierce, but for those games, friends on other teams become total enemies, and the hits are amped up all night on everyone.

Sorry this thread turned into a Beanpot thread, though while not a Hockey East event, it's at least a small snapshot of how much fun it is to be a part of the league, namely how close geographically and personally the schools are to one another. The fact that I can walk (theoretically) to 30% of the rinks in the league from my apartment is unreal. It's not like the Big East where your rival is hundreds of miles away, they're right up the highway, or in some cases, down the street. It really is the most fun conference to be a part of in all of college sports, with some of the best collegiate sports environments you'll find anywhere. You can drive to see every conference game on your team's schedule with little difficulty, except now for ND. With not a whole lot of effort, and not owning a car, I've not been to three or four Hockey East games, home or away, over the past three seasons.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Ronnie Perry was definitely the best High School player I ever saw in person. Maybe the best College player I ever saw play as well. Second leading scorer all time in New England behind Reggie Lewis. So many of the jumpers he took counted for two points but would have been three pointers in today's game. Might have ended up over 3,000 points for his career with the three pointer.

He was also a superb baseball player. Played in the White Sox organization after he was cut by the Celtics. His father, who was AD at Holy Cross, played on an NCAA Championship Baseball team and an NIT Champion Basketball team. Pretty impressive legacy.

He was a good athlete, had Chris Potter with him. UMass had Mike Pyatt and Lenny Kohlhaas. BC had Ernie Cobb, Meggers and I think Rob Carrington in the first year. Carrington continues to be one of my all time favorite players. Nice event.

 

[businesslawyer]

Not a fan of the Boston teams specifically, but I can field it as it's mostly a history thing.

The Beanpot started in the 1950s, before there was an official "organized" Eastern conference*, and the teams didn't have formalized schedules** like at current. In that context, having a Boston-wide tournament for those teams and matchups makes sense.

*i.e. the ECAC, from which Hockey East devolved in the 1980s; UConn was actually one of the league's initial participants, before it split into a pair of leagues: "university"(D-I) and "college" (D-III); UConn joined the latter.
**The first few decades or so of the ECAC didn't even have an organized schedule; the teams regularly just played whoever they wanted, and standings were kept haphazardly, as access to the tournament came from the decree of the committee rather than with automatic bids. It wasn't until just before the Hockey East teams broke off that there was an attempt at a regularized schedule.

The ECAC, because it existed for basketball as well, was originally not a "league" in the sense that you had a conference, a schedule and a champion. It was an administrative organization that trained officials so that they would be available for northeastern independents.

 

[freescooter]

I think that the feel of theBeanpot, especially on Championship night, is almost unrivaled in any sport...it is one of those things that has to be experienced. you can't describe it. And I think the intensity is really related to the history of the participating schools, their proximity to each other, I mean you can spit out the window of a Bu building and hit both Northeastern and BC, but also their backgrounds. Harvard was and remains, well, Harvard. BC and BU are both on Commonwealth Ave. One historically even in the 50s and 60s when the Beanpot originated, Catholic and heavily first and second generation Irish, Italian, Polish. BU, the old line Protestant Methodist school that saw itself as better than BC and Northeastern but had an inferior complex to the college across the river...and then you had Northeastern which was the workingman's school, with their co-op model. Even BC viewed them as little more than a glorified trade school...So this thing had everything..class warfare, ethnic hatred, religious conflicts,people with chips on their shoulders and they all played in the same arena, recruited the same kids, many of whom knew each other and played with or against each other in high school, and you could walk from one school to the other. Then consider that through the 1950s and 1960s, BU and Northeastern shared the Boston Arena (Now NU's Mathews Arena) as a home and practice facility, and in the really early years of the tournament, that was BC's home too. They moved to McHugh Forum later, around 1960 or so. The Beanpot began in the early 1950s, '52 I think, so you had 3 teams sharing home ice. All these things contribute to why it is what it is and why you can't recreate it with "other" teams....nobody else has the same history nor the same "tensions."

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

BCU's Grey Poupon-colored hockey uniforms are a glove fit for a few too many of the school's inexplicably pompous recent alumni. The uniforms aren't quite on par with Maryland's turtle skins or whatever they are, but Flipper must have squeezed CCM, Bauer, or Nike for some serious dough. No doubt, it must confuse the few French's yellow bedecked stupor fans. Regrettably, Jerry York's created a monster.

 

[freescooter]

Building off the above, while Frozen Fours and NCAA Regionals are far more important there's a different feel in the arena -a more corporate, ambivalent environment outside of the schools allotments just like in basketball.

The closest thing I could equate it to for you guys would be the semis of the BE tournament where it's UConn, Cuse, GTown, & say Nova, except all 4 schools are within a 3 mile radius of each other.

One other thing that helps make this Tournament work, I think, is that everyone has a shot. And that is something you wouldn't get in a Beanpot basketball event, for example. Harvard, BC, BU and Northeastern all play "at the same level" more or less, in hockey. although Northeastern has never been quite as successful, and you can make the case that Harvard and the ECAC has fallen behind in recent years, they aren't so far behind the other two that you think they have no chance. While the current state of BC basketball is, let's charitably say a mess, under "normal" conditions they would be virtually unchallenged against the other 3. Related to that is the tourney structure. Harvard and Northeastern are going to the finals some years. It isn't rigged to always have BC-BU because every 3 years, BC-BU is the first round. Even if they are tied for #1 in the country...And to some degree that helpd to legitimize the event.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

One other thing that helps make this Tournament work, I think, is that everyone has a shot. And that is something you wouldn't get in a Beanpot basketball event, for example. Harvard, BC, BU and Northeastern all play "at the same level" more or less, in hockey. although Northeastern has never been quite as successful, and you can make the case that Harvard and the ECAC has fallen behind in recent years, they aren't so far behind the other two that you think they have no chance. While the current state of BC basketball is, let's charitably say a mess, under "normal" conditions they would be virtually unchallenged against the other 3. Related to that is the tourney structure. Harvard and Northeastern are going to the finals some years. It isn't rigged to always have BC-BU because every 3 years, BC-BU is the first round. Even if they are tied for #1 in the country...And to some degree that helpd to legitimize the event.

Sure, Harvard and Northeastern "have a chance", but the gap between those two programs and where BC and BU are is very large. Granted, the current gap between BC and everyone else in the nation is very large, but the point is still the same. In fact, one of the knocks on the Beanpot of late is that it's the same result every year, not that I (usually) have a problem with that. One of the things that made the 09 one so great was that it was the first time in a LONG time that one of Harvard and Northeastern were highly ranked in the national polls, and were far ahead of one of BC/BU. That rarely happens.


On a related note, apparently the president of XL said at the press conference today that he was going to bid on getting the Hockey East tournament championships brought to the XL. Every hockey writer at the event subsequently tweeted laughter at him. Have fun with that one, pal. You can't even keep an AHL team and you want a nationally televised conference championship brought to your arena? Sounds good.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

First, BC's gold jersey are a work of art you shut your mouth (and I believe BC was 13-0 in them this year)

Second, while there has been some talk of the event getting "stale" (only BC & BU have won since 1993), I tell that person to attend the finals -regardless of who is playing.

Third, to veer away from the Beanpot and towards something more relevant towards you (and to lob a little grenade). Tell your president to let sleeping dogs lie no need to draw attentio to yourself from the most dominant program in the sport.

What did she say? And yes, the event is not going stale at all. If NU and Harvard suck, that's their fault.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I'm a Boston hater as well. Living up here has only reinforced that, grew up in Fairfield County. I enjoyed going to the Whale for the BC-Yale game this past Thanksgiving weekend (brought back memories from high school where Prep was there every year) so I hope CT hockey continues to improve.

As for what was said, "We look forward to beating whoever is first, especially Boston College". Relax lady.

Eek, yeah, maybe that's just because they're the top program and defending champs right now? Probably not. I would love to see a game at Yale, though.

But yes, it'll be great to see if they can build the program and build the fanbase. UConn could turn into a very strong addition to the conference, even better than UMass or UVM. It was encouraging to hear them note the possibility of moving HE games back to campus in the future, that's definitely a step in the right direction. Also heard from the HE commish that apparently most HE teams will be playing UConn OOC in 13-14, though I have trouble seeing any of the Big 4 coming to Storrs/Hartford, certainly not BU, BC, or UNH. Maybe Maine because Timmay's a moron.

A CT tournament would be a nice addition, especially since Ylae and QU are doing a good job building their program. Unfortunately there's really no viable fourth team, Sacred Heart is one of the worst programs in the country and absolutely no one follows them. Maybe UMass instead? For reference, Ylae is not a type-o.

 

[Sky ball]

The ECAC, because it existed for basketball as well, was originally not a "league" in the sense that you had a conference, a schedule and a champion. It was an administrative organization that trained officials so that they would be available for northeastern independents.

Although not a "conference" in for standings, scheduling etc. It was more than an administrative org. The "ECAC Basketball Tournament Champions" went to the NCAA's just like they do now. I am not 100% sure it was an official ECAC Tournament or the ECAC put 4 teams into the NCAA 1st round? I remember going to Providence and watching UConn play Syracuse in the mid/late 70's for an NCAA berth. Syr had Leo Routins and I believe these were Corney Thompson years?

 

[freescooter]

I'm a Boston hater as well. Living up here has only reinforced that, grew up in Fairfield County. I enjoyed going to the Whale for the BC-Yale game this past Thanksgiving weekend (brought back memories from high school where Prep was there every year) so I hope CT hockey continues to improve.

As for what was said, "We look forward to beating whoever is first, especially Boston College". Relax lady.

claver, She said that because she knew it would get a positive response form the locals...no different from when the owner of the Sox referred to the Yanks as the Evil Empire...you have to know your audience and President Herbst form what I can tell, knows hers...

 

[businesslawyer]

Although not a "conference" in for standings, scheduling etc. It was more than an administrative org. The "ECAC Basketball Tournament Champions" went to the NCAA's just like they do now. I am not 100% sure it was an official ECAC Tournament or the ECAC put 4 teams into the NCAA 1st round? I remember going to Providence and watching UConn play Syracuse in the mid/late 70's for an NCAA berth. Syr had Leo Routins and I believe these were Corney Thompson years?

I said the ECAC was "originally" not a league. When the NCAA Tourney expanded, the cut a deal with the ECAC that it could send 3 or 4 teams. The ECAC organized seperate geographic pools and ran 4-team tourneys for an NCAA berth. But that still wasn't a real league, in that UConn, in the New England pool, and VCU, in the southernmost area, still belonged to the same organization and didn't have seperate organizations that met and voted.

The game you're thinking of, by the way, was an NCAA tourney game the year Magic beat Bird in the final. UConn and Syracuse were in different ECAC regions.

So while it's certainly possible that I could be wrong ....

 

[freescooter]

I think a Connecticut tournament might be pretty decent, too. Yale, UCONN, Quinnipiac and you'd almost have to include Sacred Heart. Play it in Bridgeport sometimes and hartford others perhaps. I actually like Harbor Yard. It is really the "right" size for an arena whereas the XL is really too big for the market. Seats 8400 for hockey which is fine for Connecticut. XL seats almost twice as many. too big for most basketball games too...