Hmmm, sounds like UConn to the ACC?

[AZHuskiePop]

None of ESPN's top 25 football markets are north of Virginia while being east of Ohio...

That's our point

 

[superjohn]

Never said UConn was still a safety school, I said it takes time to overcome that old way of thinking.

Never said someone who didn't go to UConn couldn't be a UConn fan. I explained that I, and many of my friends are, despite not going to UConn.

Never said that all of he Bama/PSU fans are alumni.

My point exactly about UConn FB is we have to build, because we're young to the big time football stage.

In fact, I said it doesn't happen overnight and it is a generational thing.

So thank you for building that long and arduous strawman, only to come to an agreement with me at the end.

You don't have a point.

 

[BlueMAB]

I've never seen such a pile of pointless data. It assumes that each one of the institutions you list have equal support among sports fans. Kind of silly don't you think? But let's assume for a moment that that concept has any validity. You neglect to address the population difference. CT. MA, and NJ have a population of about 18 million while Iowa, though roughly the same land mass has a population of only 3 million.

Wing U, I just don't understand you at all. I don't think that you are trolling, but I've never seen a CT fan so motivated to ignore Connecticut's strengths and work so hard to find manufacture weaknesses. I don't get it.

But hey, at least you now acknowledge the ACC's prior interest in UConn and Boston's College's role in blocking us. Baby steps.

The data is what it is. Upstate brought up Iowa choosing to ignore the VAST cultural differences and the impact on education/allegiances between the states.

If the weaknesses were manufactured, we'd already be in the P5 because the rest of the ACC would have told BCU to S _T_F_U and take UConn as the obvious most valuable choice. FSU wouldn't have been so turned off by our football program and lack of history. Sadly, I don't think you'll ever understand that because you want to pretend as if we don't have any weaknesses.

We have many strengths, our academics, our market potential, our football potential, our basketball history. Unfortunately potential is a hard sell. Of course we have a track record of elite athletic achievement across multiple sports, but as whaler (i think) said in another thread, the list of schools that are very successful at both Football and Basketball is very, very, very small. So hopefully the B12 is buying, because all we need is a seat at the table and the right coach to sustain success. How this makes me unfit to be a fan I'll never understand, but thankfully, I don't answer to anyone here.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Never said UConn was still a safety school, I said it takes time to overcome that old way of thinking.

Never said someone who didn't go to UConn couldn't be a UConn fan. I explained that I, and many of my friends are, despite not going to UConn.

Never said that all of he Bama/PSU fans are alumni.

My point exactly about UConn FB is we have to build, because we're young to the big time football stage.

In fact, I said it doesn't happen overnight and it is a generational thing.

So thank you for building that long and arduous strawman, only to come to an agreement with me at the end.

Here's a hint... when you feel like you have to keep responding with "You're missing my point", maybe it's because the point is missing!!!!

I think you threw out some random numbers about schools per square mile and then said, "then there's the obvious cultural differences and the fact that most people in the northeast place far more weight and value on a private school education, where as most people in the Midwest and south have more pride in their state school." And then you said "that doesn't change overnight, not when you have as many quality private school options as we have in the northeast."

I was simply responding to this post. There is no mention of you or your friends going or not going to UCONN. If you think I follow your other posts and keep a log, I think you're flattering yourself.

Maybe instead of Wing-U, you should change your name to Wing-Nut.

 

[CL82]

The data is what it is. Upstate brought up Iowa choosing to ignore the VAST cultural differences and the impact on education/allegiances between the states.

If the weaknesses were manufactured, we'd already be in the P5 because the rest of the ACC would have told BCU to and take UConn as the obvious most valuable choice. Sadly, I don't think you'll ever understand that because you want to pretend as if we don't have any weaknesses.

We have many strengths, our academics, our market potential, our football potential, our basketball history. Unfortunately potential is a hard sell. Of course we have a track record of elite athletic achievement across multiple sports, but as whaler (i think) said in another thread, the list of schools that are very successful at both Football and Basketball is very, very, very small. So hopefully the B12 is buying, because all we need is a seat at the table and the right coach to sustain success. How this makes me unfit to be a fan I'll never understand, but thankfully, I don't answer to anyone here.

The data is what it is...utterly meaningless at least in the way you chose to try to parse it. You seem to be back sliding a bit on the BCU point as well. Let me try the same soft logic... if UConn didn't bring value why would they have been the ACC's intial choice twice?

BCU held a position on a small committee vetting candidates. Their objection to us wasn;t that we didn't bring value but rather that they wanted to be the only ACC school in New England. Their AD admitted this in writing and you've acknowledged this previously. Likewise BCU joined with FSU and Clemson to push for a Louisville FSU felt that the conference was favoring basketball in additions. That's been discussed as nauseum here, yet you seem to discount it. I have no idea why.

 

[BlueMAB]

How about Alaska, they must be the best option for the P5s under your square mile metric?

Also, UConn is really worried about Albertus Magnus eating into its ratings.

Never said the square mile metric was a factor in what made a P5 school most attractive. I'm not even speaking to realignment with that point. It's pretty ironic that Waquoit is telling me to pipe down because "we know the score" while you ignore the fact that there a ton of options for school in the area. And those options don't preclude anyone from being a UConn fan, but they can impact how deep that allegiance runs when you take into account the short period of time we've been playing football at a high level.

Also, never said anything about ratings. But if we're talking about Fairfield County and the NY market, it would be nice if you and a few others could stop pretending like UConn isn't worried about the 9 major professional sports teams in the NY metro area. Or is that just another "manufactured" weakness. This comment will be ignored, but it's a weakness that I think we can overcome, but it is something that should be open to discussing.

What's the danger of talking about this? Do people think the B12 presidents don't know this?

 

[J187Money]

Still not following how that has much to do with the ability of the state to support 1 FBS team.

I'd wager about half the people on here went to state schools in CT or private schools in New England and still support UConn athletics.

I don't think anybody is making a Penn State comparison, but to say with a big time schedule we couldnt pack in 50k most weeks is short sighted given that in 8 win seasons in the Big East with some of the worst offenses in FBS we sold the place out at 40k.

I understand that some of us have an inflated view of UConn on here and you've been trying to ground some of that in reality, most of which I tend to agree with btw, but on this matter I dont see your point of view.

They don't support it with tickets and/or donations to the program. Sadly.

 

[BlueMAB]

Here's a hint... when you feel like you have to keep responding with "You're missing my point", maybe it's because the point is missing!!!!

I think you threw out some random numbers about schools per square mile and then said, "then there's the obvious cultural differences and the fact that most people in the northeast place far more weight and value on a private school education, where as most people in the Midwest and south have more pride in their state school." And then you said "that doesn't change overnight, not when you have as many quality private school options as we have in the northeast."

I was simply responding to this post. There is no mention of you or your friends going or not going to UCONN. If you think I follow your other posts and keep a log, I think you're flattering yourself.

Maybe instead of Wing-U, you should change your name to Wing-Nut.

Marty, there's a discussion happening. Choosing to interject into the middle of the discussion, without first taking the time to read the other posts for proper context, doesn't make me a wingnut, it makes you lazy.

have a good day.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I hope Uconn eventually gets into the ACC, because it will help their presence a bit in Massachusetts, particularly around Greater Boston, and would be good for both programs, and a boost to college sports interest in Greater Boston.

Boston is a Pro Sports town. BC is an afterthought, and Uconn frankly does not exist. I've lived and worked in Boston for half a century, and believe me I never met a Uconn grad in Boston,and spent years in sales, and traveled around every day to Greater Boston. Now that I'm semi retired, I spend winters in SW Florida, and never see Uconn gear on when I'm there. I see BC gear( and Northeastern gear) as for over a decade now BC plays the Red Sox as the teams opener at JetBlue Park, Ft. Myers). If Uconn goes to the B12, that won't do anything for Uconn is Greater Boston, as nobody has any ties, nor any interest to that part of the B12 league's Country. I'm also trying to figure out if the Uconn Basketball Coaches are interested in 10 hour 2,000 flights back and forth every week for months on end to play a dozen or so league games out in that distant part of the country.... or if the B12 Basketball teams are likewise enthralled with that thought. Coach Diaco let the cat out of the bag when he alluded to his position that even he isn't enthralled with the travel his football team would make in going 2,000 miles one way to play schools out in a region of the country where air flights are not that frequent, nor desireable airports. And the Uconn Basketball program would go out there more frequently, due to playing more games. Thats why I hope Uconn holds out for an ACC invite, as going to the B12 will do nothing for college sports interest in New England, except in the state of Connecticut alone.

 

[J187Money]

I'm in Louisville today - all of their athletic facilities are visible from the highway, including a big sign with a cardinal and the ACC logo. Ugh.

 

[BlueMAB]

The data is what it is...utterly meaningless at least in the way you chose to try to parse it. You seem to be back sliding a bit on the BCU point as well. Let me try the same soft logic... if UConn didn't bring value why would they have been the ACC's intial choice twice?

BCU held a position on a small committee vetting candidates. Their objection to us wasn;t that we didn't bring value but rather that they wanted to be the only ACC school in New England. Their AD admitted this in writing and you've acknowledged this previously. Likewise BCU joined with FSU and Clemson to push for a Louisville FSU felt that the conference was favoring basketball in additions. That's been discussed as nauseum here, yet you seem to discount it. I have no idea why.

Never discounted it. never denied it. NEVER said we didn't have value. Your problem with me would largely be solved if you didn't choose to ignore the multiple times where I explicitly said we have P5 value, and deserve to be in a P5 conference.

 

[Sea Goat]

You're missing my point.

There are 261 schools in MA, 207 in NJ, and 114 in CT. That's 582 options within a 3-4 hour drive from most places in the state.

CT is 5,000+ square miles
MA is 10,000 + square miles
NJ is 8,000+ square miles

That's 582 options in 23,000+ square miles.

Iowa has 107 schools and 56,000 square miles.

Then there's the obvious cultural differences and the fact that most people in the northeast place far more weight and value on a private school education, where as most people in the Midwest and south have more pride in their state school. Going to a state school in CT was, for generations, a plan b. That doesn't change overnight, not when you have as many quality private school options as we have in the northeast.

You are arguing from a 1970s or 80s perspective. The world of public higher education has changed dramatically in the Northeast for myriad reasons. This was driven by a couple of important developments. First, CT and many other states started making the necessary investment in public higher education. This region has long had the best elementary and secondary school education and we started putting money into our public colleges and universities. Second, the cost/value gap has widened substantially between public and private higher education. In the 70s, the cost differential wasn't as great as it is now and people could choose a private education and not break the bank..

UConn is attracting the best students because it provides a great education in a challenging atmosphere at a cost of tens of thousands less per year than the typical private school. For the top privates i.e. the Ivies, Nescac schools, MIT, this hasn't impacted applications or desire to go there and pay $65k a year. But for 2nd tier privates that charge in the $60+k range, people are balking. The Syracuses and Providences of the world have to figure out how to compete against highly rated public schools in the region that offer every bit a good education (and are rated higher in many cases) at a relative bargain. UConn has eclipsed many private institutions academically and people long ago started wondering why they should pay 21/2 times the cost for an inferior education at some nearby private school. This new reality has terrified second tier private schools because the endless supply of private school lemmings will dry up as people see the light. As far as your "plan B" reference, I know families that hoped like hell for UConn and had to settle for Syracuse. It's happening - you'll see it if you open your eyes.

Frankly the growth and development of UConn as a nationally recognized public institution is about the best thing the politicians in this state has accomplished in the last 30 years. Let's hope it continues.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm in Louisville today - all of their athletic facilities are visible from the highway, including a big sign with a cardinal and the ACC logo. Ugh.

I was there when we beat them in OT under dumb and dumber, and they got the ACC invite 24-48 hours later. Their setup is awesome. Everything is right there, including downtown Louisville and the KFC Yum center.

 

[J187Money]

I was there when we beat them in OT under dumb and dumber, and they got the ACC invite 24-48 hours later. Their setup is awesome. Everything is right there, including downtown Louisville and the KFC Yum center.

It is - impressive, on campus, everything close.

 

[CL82]

Never discounted it. never denied it. NEVER said we didn't have value. Your problem with me would largely be solved if you didn't choose to ignore the multiple times where I explicitly said we have P5 value, and deserve to be in a P5 conference.

And yet your core premise is that if we'd had value we'd have been taken already, so since we haven't been taken we must lack value. Setting aside for the moment that that 'argument' is based upon the logical fallacy know as circular reason, it demonstrably false.

I'll step out here because I don't see much point in continuing, but as a few posters have noted above, if everyone here is "missing your point" perhaps it isn’t quite a well founded as you believe.

 

[BlueMAB]

You are arguing from a 1970s or 80s perspective. The world of public higher education has changed dramatically in the Northeast for myriad reasons. This was driven by a couple of important developments. First, CT and many other states started making the necessary investment in public higher education. This region has long had the best elementary and secondary school education and we started putting money into our public colleges and universities. Second, the cost/value gap has widened substantially between public and private higher education. In the 70s, the cost differential wasn't as great as it is now and people could choose a private education and not break the bank..

UConn is attracting the best students because it provides a great education in a challenging atmosphere at a cost of tens of thousands less per year than the typical private school. For the top privates i.e. the Ivies, Nescac schools, MIT, this hasn't impacted applications or desire to go there and pay $65k a year. But for 2nd tier privates that charge in the $60+k range, people are balking. The Syracuses and Providences of the world have to figure out how to compete against highly rated public schools in the region that offer every bit a good education (and are rated higher in many cases) at a relative bargain. UConn has eclipsed many private institutions academically and people long ago started wondering why they should pay 21/2 times the cost for an inferior education at some nearby private school. This new reality has terrified second tier private schools because the endless supply of private school lemmings will dry up as people see the light. As far as your "plan B" reference, I know families that hoped like hell for UConn and had to settle for Syracuse. It's happening - you'll see it if you open your eyes.

Frankly the growth and development of UConn as a nationally recognized public institution is about the best thing the politicians in this state has accomplished in the last 30 years. Let's hope it continues.

Apparently people don't understand tense.

Here's what I said

"Going to a state school in CT was, for generations, a plan b." (emphasis added).

"WAS". NOT "IS"

This means, I understand and acknowledge that this is no longer the case. I agree with everything you said in your post.

 

[BlueMAB]

And yet your core premise is that if we'd had value we'd have been taken already

No. That's not my premise. That's not what I said.

Conferences expand for different reasons. Teams agree or oppose expansion for different reasons.

Unfortunately, our core value wasn't in areas significant and unique enough to overcome some of those obstacles.

 

[Stinger92860]

Ignore is a beautiful thing.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

They don't support it with tickets and/or donations to the program. Sadly.

You think everyone at the rent is an alumni? I'd agree that it would seem likely that donations would mostly be alumni, but just in my

I'm not sure where we disagree....here's what I said



Penn State has 100,000+ seat stadium.

There's a pretty wide gap between selling out 40,000 and selling out 105,000 no? Like about a generation wide?

I guess I misinterpreted your stance and mixed what upstater was saying.

I'm saying the foundation is there to be at a level of most the non Texas/OU schools, without needing a generation to build it up. That's all.

 

[BlueMAB]

You think everyone at the rent is an alumni? I'd agree that it would seem likely that donations would mostly be alumni, but just in my


I guess I misinterpreted your stance and mixed what upstater was saying.

I'm saying the foundation is there to be at a level of most the non Texas/OU schools, without needing a generation to build it up. That's all.

I totally agree. The generation comment referred to the building it to the UT/OU level.

What started this is I took exception to the phrase "huge, captive audience".

There are lots of options out there, the audience isn't captive, especially when talking about the NY metro area (which IMO would include Fairfield County). And "huge" is relative. Our women's BB following is huge. Our football following is not. And if we acknowledge that we have a large relatively untapped market in fairfield county, then I don't know that we should call our audience "huge". It could be though. Especially with a P5 invite.

 

[Sea Goat]

Apparently people don't understand tense.

Here's what I said

"Going to a state school in CT was, for generations, a plan b." (emphasis added).

"WAS". NOT "IS"

This means, I understand and acknowledge that this is no longer the case. I agree with everything you said in your post.

So you know, I was a private school kid - prep school in Connecticut, Ivy undergrad, but then UConn for grad school. Regarding UConn, I wasn't thrilled initially, but I had great profs and fellow students and it was the only place I could afford to go. I never could have been happier. It was great experience that set me up for the future. This was decades ago and UConn has only gotten better in every aspect. I saw kids turn their noses up at the mention of UConn, but look at us now. It is a great story - and one that is not lost on leaders in the other great universities in this country. Whatever else matters in e-f-f-i-n-g CR, when academics seeps into the conversation, everyone acknowledges our superiority. As a life long Nutmegger, I'm proud of that.

 

[BlueMAB]

Ignore is a beautiful thing.

I agree, ignorance is bliss.

 

[upstater]

Never said the square mile metric was a factor in what made a P5 school most attractive. I'm not even speaking to realignment with that point. It's pretty ironic that Waquoit is telling me to pipe down because "we know the score" while you ignore the fact that there a ton of options for school in the area. And those options don't preclude anyone from being a UConn fan, but they can impact how deep that allegiance runs when you take into account the short period of time we've been playing football at a high level.

Also, never said anything about ratings. But if we're talking about Fairfield County and the NY market, it would be nice if you and a few others could stop pretending like UConn isn't worried about the 9 major professional sports teams in the NY metro area. Or is that just another "manufactured" weakness. This comment will be ignored, but it's a weakness that I think we can overcome, but it is something that should be open to discussing.

What's the danger of talking about this? Do people think the B12 presidents don't know this?

I'll say it again, most states UConn's size (and smaller) have 2 P5 schools, AND a pro team.

UConn is in excellent shape when it comes to fanbase.

And here's another big factor. The state's wealth. This is why no one seemed to bat an eyelash when SNY increased their monthly from 1.40 to 2.60 after the state's cable stations elevated it from sports tier to basic.

In other states, you would have heard an uproar. In Connecticut, the extra $24 a year didn't seem to mean much to anyone.

 

[uc1974]

I don't think BDL to anywhere in the Big 12 (charter) is anywhere close to ten hours unless one is flying in a DC-4. JFK to HKG is only 14 hours commercial. I am glad to see that UConn grads are apparently non-existent in Boston as I have always found Boston to be one of the most insular and droll cities in the United States. UConn has NY to worry about. The Commonwealth can be ignored to no disadvantage.

 

[J187Money]

You think everyone at the rent is an alumni? I'd agree that it would seem likely that donations would mostly be alumni, but just in my

No - but we have a LOT of alumni, and our giving is way below the "schools" we are competing against.

And our ticket revenue lags most of the larger programs by a large margin.

 

[upstater]

It is - impressive, on campus, everything close.

Downtown Louisville?

Uh.... There's no there there.

 

[IMind]

This whole conversation is crazy. We already filled a 40k stadium with Big East slate on a regular basis... (quiet Whaler I know they didn't really always fill it, but close enough) to argue that we couldn't fill a 50k stadium with WV, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, OK, and Texas is absurd. We already did it with Baylor. F- Baylor... and that was before RGIII was a thing (or at least in it's infancy.)

We already get decent ratings for good games against P5 opponents, SNY paid us millions of dollars for our third tier rights (including football), we're already near the top of attendance in HE with a losing team. I'm curious exactly what "support" you think we need?

No we're not PSU, Alabama, and Michigan... but who is? We're already ahead of P5 programs like Indiana, Wake, etc... right now in the AAC. I'm at a loss to figure out what you're point is...

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Why is this thread still going on and on?

 

[BlueMAB]

UConn is in excellent shape when it comes to fanbase.

Been to a game at the Rent lately?

 

[BlueMAB]

Why is this thread still going on and on?

Because people took my disagreement with the statement that UConn's audience is "huge and captive" and turned it into something it's not.

Because posters like CL82 like to rehash old conversations by assigning people ownership of fabricated opinions.

Because posters like Marty Jackson (and apparently IMind) hop in the middle of discussions without starting at the beginning for proper context. For example, no matter how many times I say we can fill the 40k stadium, people keep asking my why I think we can't. Irony is, they're calling me crazy.

And because posters like myself have some time to kill.