OT: - Hats off to Tom Brady | Page 9 | The Boneyard

OT: Hats off to Tom Brady

Huh? Maybe true in the recent past, but Brady has had some pretty damn good targets in his career, including the Welker, Amendola, Edelman trio. Moss didn't suck either. But I agree with your broader point.
While don't agree with the idea that Rodgers had a great set of receivers his career (implying they made him), Brady only had Moss for one year. The other guys you mentioned were excellent slot WRs, and really Amendola is not considered a great WR. Brady sometimes had years in which players like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney were his best WRs.
 
Yeah, I feel like some people ignore this or put very little weight on it. In 8 of 9 SB trips the Patriots had a Top 8 defense. Eight out of his 20 seasons he had a Top 5 defense. He had a coach and a defense who shut down two historically great Rams offenses, nearly 20 years apart. Defenses that almost always gave Peyton Manning fits. Not to mention Brady had an outstanding OL for most of his career, even though he always got the ball out quickly. In the middle of their quasi-dynastic run they went 11-5 with Matt Cassell under center.

Brady is great, sure he's the GOAT, but he's just like Montana to me. They played in insanely great situations. Supporting casts, great coaches, great defenses. Even after leaving New England, Brady went to a team with arguably the second-best group of weapons in the league and one of the best offensive minds out there. I'm not convinced that Brady is actually better than someone like Rodgers or Dan Marino if you flipped their situations but he's obviously the most accomplished QB ever.

So much of this is just wrong.

1. The defenses were great in the first 4 years but the defense just broke open like a sieve against Jake Delhomme in 2003. Then the defenses were pretty bad in the 2009 through 2013 years when the Patriots had their best offense (I say best because they put up a historic amount of points). The defenses during their second Super Bowl run were mostly just OK (no great shakes against Seattle, Atlanta, etc. and absolutely horrible against Philadelphia). They had a great defense against the Rams.

2. Outstanding OL? How did they build this outstanding OL? 7th round draft picks and free agents cut by other teams. UDFAs? You had players no one wanted like Hochstein, Andruzzi, Compton, heck Stephen Neal didn't even play college football! So many of these guys. The Patriots hardly spent any draft capital on OL, and they never brought in top FAs. It amazes me that so many of these guys came to New England, were plug and play, and they suddenly became very good OL in front of Brady. A guy who knew how to move in the pocket and got the ball out fast, making OL look great. So many examples year after year. UConn's own Donald Thomas was looking for work when the Patriots picked him up. Next thing you know he signs a big contract to leave New England and is never heard from again. Look at the Giants Nate Solder. Exposed. Look at Trent Brown, talented but considered a bust, signed with New England for nothing. Then goes on and cashes in big, but isn't really doing much. And the best example of all: when Brady signed with Tampa this year, so many articles were written in the Tampa papers about how Brady was going to get crushed behind that porous OL. Look at Jameis Winston's sack totals. They are very high. But instead this OL has improved massively in front of Brady. They are very talented and highly drafted, but compared to the sacks given up early, they are doing pretty well now, with the exception of LT Donovan Smith, who is not very good.

3. The reason why New England went 11-5 and DIDN'T make the playoffs with Matt Cassel is because they didn't deal any of those 11 losses to teams they were actually competing against for playoff spots. There was a huge dropoff in games lost from the prior year when they didn't lose any, a year in which they had a very touch schedule against 8 playoff teams. Finally, and this doesn't seem to be said much, Cassel didn't even have a career year in New England. When he went to KC, not only did he take the Chiefs to the playoffs, but he had more TDs thrown, more yards, higher passing %, and he even made the Pro Bowl.

Amazes me that Brady has done so much with so little talent around him other than Gronk and yet he doesn't get the credit. Not to mention the fact that Gronk has been injured in 3 of those Super Bowls.
 
Amazes me that Brady has done so much with so little talent around him other than Gronk and yet he doesn't get the credit. Not to mention the fact that Gronk has been injured in 3 of those Super Bowls.
The dude gets a ton of credit, here and elsewhere, from 99% of people.

You being you, you will die on a hill fighting the 1%.
 
The dude gets a ton of credit, here and elsewhere, from 99% of people.

You being you, you will die on a hill fighting the 1%.

Have you even read this thread?
 
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I'd add I was pretty consistent in previous threads from last season (yes, I searched them) that stated Brady wasn't washed, that he could still make the throws, and that it wasn't his receiving crew from last year that caused the offense to flounder. Instead, it was having Marshall Newhouse as his LT and 4 injured OL that caused him to purposely throw the ball in the dirt repeatedly. His receivers last year were OK (heck, Julian caught 100 balls and had broken ribs!). Brady has proven he still has his fastball.

The threads from a year ago are still around, and it's pretty funny to see the really bad predictions from so many people (Brady would get killed behind Tampa's OL, Brady is going for the $$ in Tampa because they'll have a losing season, BB will find a QB that fits his system and will have as much success as he did with Brady, etc.) Pretty hilarious.
 
So, there are 6 posters I was responding to.

I'd add I was pretty consistent in previous threads from last season (yes, I searched them) that stated Brady wasn't washed, that he could still make the throws, and that it wasn't his receiving crew from last year that caused the offense to flounder. Instead, it was having Marshall Newhouse as his LT and 4 injured OL that caused him to purposely throw the ball in the dirt repeatedly. His receivers last year were OK (heck, Julian caught 100 balls and had broken ribs!). Brady has proven he still has his fastball.

The threads from a year ago are still around, and it's pretty funny to see the really bad predictions from so many people (Brady would get killed behind Tampa's OL, Brady is going for the $$ in Tampa because they'll have a losing season, BB will find a QB that fits his system and will have as much success as he did with Brady, etc.) Pretty hilarious.
My point is that you will fight until there are none.

You arguing that Brady doesn't get enough respect is like Dickie V. arguing that Duke doesn't get enough respect. But I don't expect either one of you to stop doing it as long as you are alive.
 
My point is that you will fight until there are none.

You arguing that Brady doesn't get enough respect is like Dickie V. arguing that Duke doesn't get enough respect. But I don't expect either one of you to stop doing it as long as you are alive.

Billy B should get just as much respect for his coaching if Brady was able to be the GOAT without ever having a receiver worthy to play in the NFL I guess huh? lol
 
While don't agree with the idea that Rodgers had a great set of receivers his career (implying they made him), Brady only had Moss for one year. The other guys you mentioned were excellent slot WRs, and really Amendola is not considered a great WR. Brady sometimes had years in which players like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney were his best WRs.
Brady had Moss for over 2 years. Moss caught 39 regular season TD's from Brady in their 36 regular season games together.
 
My point is that you will fight until there are none.

You arguing that Brady doesn't get enough respect is like Dickie V. arguing that Duke doesn't get enough respect. But I don't expect either one of you to stop doing it as long as you are alive.
This is a thread. On a UConn board. Stating things about Brady from multiple people that I disagree with. I don't understand why you're having such difficulty.
 
This is a thread. On a UConn board. Stating things about Brady from multiple people that I disagree with. I don't understand why you're having such difficulty.
I'm not the one having difficulty, but please keep going.

Any updates on your Deflategate data?
 
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Obviously the odds are not in his favor, but he is a Dee Ford offsides away from going 3 times in his first 3 years as a starter
Oh come on--so many calls in that game changed the complexion of the game. This is a silly exercise
 
I'm not the one having difficulty, but please keep going.

Any updates on your Deflategate data?

No updates. Just proven facts. Uncountered by anyone. Have at it, genius.
 
Very narrow discussion, compared to most of what's been discussed here, but it speaks to overall skills and big game crunch time performance...

I think Rodgers saw a possibility but wisely chose against running for the end zone on 2nd down, and then unwisely chose against it on 3rd down, when the view was clearer toward the end zone.

Running would have been a touchdown, or improved position for the 4th down choice that's gotten more discussion here and elsewhere.

I think he flinched.

What do you think his chances would have been for the 3rd down running TD?
It looked open for a split second but I think it would've closed down before he got in leaving him at the 2 or 3 yard line which would've forced LaFleur to go for it but who knows with him. Rodgers doesn't have the wheels he used to.
 
Oh come on--so many calls in that game changed the complexion of the game. This is a silly exercise
It is the response I expect from you, but at the end of the day what I said is a fact.
 
It is the response I expect from you, but at the end of the day what I said is a fact.
You can say this about every single game. And even that game had plenty of other calls (or miscalls) that changed the game. It's every game.

By the way, it's not a fact.
 
My point is that you will fight until there are none.

You arguing that Brady doesn't get enough respect is like Dickie V. arguing that Duke doesn't get enough respect. But I don't expect either one of you to stop doing it as long as you are alive.
My posts are directed at fans like upstater who pretend Brady has done it with limited talent around him. Of course he comes in and proves my point by denigrating Patriots defenses and offensive line play which any objective fan knows have been great. Next he'll be ripping on the Patriots coaching.
 
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My posts are directed at fans like upstater who pretend Brady has done it with limited talent around him. Of course he comes in and proves my point by denigrating Patriots defenses and offensive line play which any objective fan knows have been great. Next he'll be ripping on the Patriots coaching.
WRONG. And this is typical. You're actually on the record here, you know? There are posts from you a year back. My posts accurately predicted all this.

And explain to me how Donald Thomas, Dan Connolly, Stephen Neal, Trent Brown, Nate Soldere, etc, all these great OL over the years, leave New England, sign big contracts, and flame out? What's the common denominator? Why was everyone predicting the Tampa OL was going to end up with Brady in the hospital? What did Deion Branch do in Seattle? Givens in Tennessee? Wes Welker is the ONLY WR who left New England and made the same impact elsewhere. In 20 years. But there have been career years from retreads in New England from the likes of Stallworth, Gaffney, Caldwell, Brandon Lloyd, and many others.

The defense was great early on. Then they fell off. A lot. They were horrible in some Super Bowls. Absolutely were. Brady threw for 500+ yards. AND LOST. The D was awful.
 
So much of this is just wrong.

Speaking of "just wrong". Holy moly, impressive work my guy.

1. They are facts. Look for yourself:


"Pretty bad" 2009-13. Okay, ranking 5th, 8th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 15th. Four Top 10 defenses, oh the horror. I'm not talking about just their performance in the Super Bowl.

2. Part of how an OL performs always has to do with the QB, but I watched a ton of Patriots games over the years--there were so many games where Brady had forever to throw the ball. Part of it was Brady, part of it was coaching. Hell, many teams simply stopped blitzing Brady because it was suicide, leaving him more time vs a 4-man rush. Belichick was always great at cutting bait on OL at the right time. Jameis held the ball forever, that's no secret. That TB OL was never that bad and they spent a 1st rounder on Wirfs.

3. No one mentions this about Cassell because he made the Pro Bowl averaging 207 yards per game and the Chiefs led the NFL in rushing lol. Yee-haw. Fun fact: in 10 games that year KC had more rushing yards than passing yards. Four times KC had fewer than 100 passing yards. Just more proof that the Pro Bowl is a joke. Dude made the Pro Bowl with two games over 250 passing yards. You can plug a lot of poor QBs into a top rushing attack in the league and they'll be fine living off play-action (see Baker Mayfield). Why do you think Cassell fell off a cliff the following season when Jamaal Charles tore his ACL and suddenly KC was 15th in the NFL in rushing? He also did not throw for more yards or a higher completion percentage in KC. Try again.

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This is a classic example of spoiled Patriots fans having zero self-awareness of just how fortunate they've been in all aspects of the game the last two decades.
 
WRONG. And this is typical. You're actually on the record here, you know? There are posts from you a year back. My posts accurately predicted all this.

And explain to me how Donald Thomas, Dan Connolly, Stephen Neal, Trent Brown, Nate Soldere, etc, all these great OL over the years, leave New England, sign big contracts, and flame out? What's the common denominator? Why was everyone predicting the Tampa OL was going to end up with Brady in the hospital? What did Deion Branch do in Seattle? Givens in Tennessee? Wes Welker is the ONLY WR who left New England and made the same impact elsewhere. In 20 years. But there have been career years from retreads in New England from the likes of Stallworth, Gaffney, Caldwell, Brandon Lloyd, and many others.

The defense was great early on. Then they fell off. A lot. They were horrible in some Super Bowls. Absolutely were. Brady threw for 500+ yards. AND LOST. The D was awful.
The Patriots had the #1 defense in the league just last season and averaged the the third or fourth best defense over Brady's last four seasons in New England, #1 defense in '16 as well. This is comical.
 
You can say this about every single game. And even that game had plenty of other calls (or miscalls) that changed the game. It's every game.

By the way, it's not a fact.
By the way, it is. If the offsides is not called the game is over. But hey, I've seen you argue Foxboro was packed in the 90s and 80s when the Patriots were the equivalent to the Browns, so I know who I am dealing with in terms of what is reality and what is fiction.
 
Why was the equipment guy named "the Deflater"?
Did the NFL ever answer that? Because the ex-FBI guys sat in the room with him for 16 hours grilling him, and didn't manage to get anything incriminating out of him. He must be an amazing criminal mastermind to outwit the FBI and still be earning minimum wage "deflating" balls for the Patriots.

Why not look at when the Deflater texts were actually made to see what they had to do with deflating balls. One was made in May and the other was made on the road 30 seconds after the equipment guy appeared on the TV screen (away teams don't handle footballs).

All of this is of course moot since all the balls measured exactly where they should have been, according to the NFL.
 
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By the way, it is. If the offsides is not called the game is over. But hey, I've seen you argue Foxboro was packed in the 90s and 80s when the Patriots were the equivalent to the Browns, so I know who I am dealing with in terms of what is reality and what is fiction.

The second part of what you wrote is just a flat out LIE.

The ref on that KC play had his hand on the flag ready to throw long before the ball was even snapped. He was on the Patriots sideline and it's likely Belichick was in his ear, because he surely WANTED to throw that flag. Flag thrown as the ball is snapped. Brady quickly looks left. He has a free play. So many variables come into play when a flag is thrown that you can't say it's a definitive fact that the game is decided there. You don't know what the players are going to do given the flag.
 

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