OT: Hartford Athletics Possible Drop to D3

[UConnJim]

UHartford is in a tough spot. With falling enrollment, dropping from D1 to D3 is another signal that the university is in a financial tailspin.

 

[UCTitleTown]

Big mistake.

 

[Slick]

UHartford is in a tough spot. With falling enrollment, dropping from D1 to D3 is another signal that the university is in a financial tailspin.

This is going to happen at many other schools. If your not in a power conference where is the money going to come from to run a D1 program?

 

[ScottVib]

They should've just come out and said from the start that they wanted to move down. You can read it from the initial assumptions in the report that the current model was unsustainable and they assumed there would be greater costs coming due to NIL legislation. From there it was a matter of spinning the numbers to make an anticipated $2.8M savings look like $9M in savings, while also excluding any consideration for entrance/exit fees.

The crazy thing in their report is the plan for them is that they should actually increase the size of their athletic rosters and offer more sports to get athletes to pay tuition to bolster the enrollment..

 

[UConnJim]

This is going to happen at many other schools. If your not in a power conference where is the money going to come from to run a D1 program?

I disagree. UHartford doesn’t have a D1 football program which is a big cash drain. The D1 programs are for marketing the university and this year was a big marketing opportunity for UHartford playing in the NCAA March Madness. Instead, they are attracting attention that they are downgrading their athletic programs. I doubt any kid is thinking “Gee, I should go to UHartford because they are downgrading sports to D3.”

 

[businesslawyer]

I’m not saying this because I’m a Fairfield U alum, but I dislike Sacred Heart. Its like a small annoying little brother to Fairfield with worse academics.

In the heirarchy of smaller CT universities, Fairfield is at the top followed by Quinnipiac and Sacred Heart. Hartford is closer to the bottom.

There was a time where FAirfield was a better academic institution than Sacred Heart or Quinnipiac. You need to look at it harder today. In its own deep financial trouble, Fairfield is focused on giving up being a mid-tier liberal arts school and is focused on being a glorified trade school focused on nursing and business. While QU and SHU are still focused on growing the breadth of an education you can get there.

 

[businesslawyer]

I disagree. UHartford doesn’t have a D1 football program which is a big cash drain. The D1 programs are for marketing the university and this year was a big marketing opportunity for UHartford playing in the NCAA March Madness. Instead, they are attracting attention that they are downgrading their athletic programs. I doubt any kid is thinking “Gee, I should go to UHartford because they are downgrading sports to D3.”

If someone has a single example of a non-elite school moving from D-1 to D-3 and turning around their fortune as a college or university, I’d be glad to hear about it. Who does UHa think they are going to play in Division 3? It’s not like Trinity and Wesleyan are going to be scheduling them once NESCAC begins conference play.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

If someone has a single example of a non-elite school moving from D-1 to D-3 and turning around their fortune as a college or university, I’d be glad to hear about it. Who does UHa think they are going to play in Division 3? It’s not like Trinity and Wesleyan are going to be scheduled them once NESCAC begins conference play.

They will probably try to join the LEC I guess, but not sure the LEC would want them.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

That stinks, especially after winning the America East and three straight offseasons of bringing in good talent, even some solid transfers.

Gallagher seems like a great guy too.

 

[CTBasketball]

There was a time where FAirfield was a better academic institution than Sacred Heart or Quinnipiac. You need to look at it harder today. In its own deep financial trouble, Fairfield is focused on giving up being a mid-tier liberal arts school and is focused on being a glorified trade school focused on nursing and business. While QU and SHU are still focused on growing the breadth of an education you can get there.

This is completely wrong on all accounts.

Outside of a law program, QU and SHU are basically the same school. They attract over-performing private high school kids who can’t get into Fairfield, Fordham, Holy Cross, Providence, etc.

QU and Sacred Heart accept nearly 75% of their applicants. Fairfield has a world renowned business school, as well as a great nursing school. Trade school? No way.

 

[UCONNJACK]

This is completely wrong on all accounts.

Outside of a law program, QU and SHU are basically the same school. They attract over-performing private high school kids who can’t get into Fairfield, Fordham, Holy Cross, Providence, etc.

QU and Sacred Heart accept nearly 75% of their applicants. Fairfield has a world renowned business school, as well as a great nursing school. Trade school? No way.

You forgot QU Medical School.

 

[UofCT]

Can we pluck Hartford’s best player?

 

[businesslawyer]

This is completely wrong on all accounts.

Outside of a law program, QU and SHU are basically the same school. They attract over-performing private high school kids who can’t get into Fairfield, Fordham, Holy Cross, Providence, etc.

QU and Sacred Heart accept nearly 75% of their applicants. Fairfield has a world renowned business school, as well as a great nursing school. Trade school? No way.

Is Fairfield more prestigious, and still able to attract more students. Yes. But it's living off it's past. The rest of your post made my point completely. It's great to have a great nursing school. We need good nurses. But training nurses is nothing like training well rounded and intellectually curious college students. Is Dolan good, for an institution of Fairfield's quality? Yes. That is the school's biggest asset. But they are moving away from being a true college, and towards training people for jobs in these two particular fields.

I'm glad you are a proud alum, but I'm not making this stuff up. I live in town. This is what I'm hearing from trustees, employees and grown ups who attend classes in Fairfield's "lifetime learning" program.

 

[CTFIRERETIRED]

Long before the internet, the glut of cable sports channels, Uhart decided to jump from D3 to D1 sports. At the time UCONN was in a moribund condition. Jim Calhoun had just taken over, but UC was not where it is today. There was no Gampel, as we all know most of the home games were in the decrepit Field House. The Hartford Civic Center's roof had fallen in, and the rebuilding effort was going on, and even some games were played in the old New Haven Coliseum. UC was at the bottom of the Big East. Many fans thought that UHart's program would take off. I was one of them. Here we are today, and UC is a national power, with a number of National championships under it's belt, a number of former players are in the NBA, and some are even head coaches. One has to ask WHY UHart's progam never got off the ground? It's an interesting question to be discussing.

 

[aburks41]

This is completely wrong on all accounts.

Outside of a law program, QU and SHU are basically the same school. They attract over-performing private high school kids who can’t get into Fairfield, Fordham, Holy Cross, Providence, etc.

QU and Sacred Heart accept nearly 75% of their applicants. Fairfield has a world renowned business school, as well as a great nursing school. Trade school? No way.

World renowned business school is a massive stretch. It's not even ranked on USNews lol. Maybe in the northeast it's well known, but it doesn't have a national brand at all.

I graduated from UConn's school of business which is ranked #60 and even I wouldn't consider them to be world renowned. UConn still gets almost no respect from anywhere on the Street

 

[CL82]

But training nurses is nothing like training well rounded and intellectually curious college students.

Lol, wow. Condescend much?

 

[businesslawyer]

Lol, wow. Condescend much?

Yes, cut a quote in half and then conclude the half you quoted is condescending. Thank you much.

We need nurses, and they may as a group be more useful and better people than lawyers. But at schools with dedicated nursing programs, you are teaching a trade. It is not the same as providing a liberal arts education. If you really find that condescending, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's not a good one.

 

[CCSU97]

Long before the internet, the glut of cable sports channels, Uhart decided to jump from D3 to D1 sports. At the time UCONN was in a moribund condition. Jim Calhoun had just taken over, but UC was not where it is today. There was no Gampel, as we all know most of the home games were in the decrepit Field House. The Hartford Civic Center's roof had fallen in, and the rebuilding effort was going on, and even some games were played in the old New Haven Coliseum. UC was at the bottom of the Big East. Many fans thought that UHart's program would take off. I was one of them. Here we are today, and UC is a national power, with a number of National championships under it's belt, a number of former players are in the NBA, and some are even head coaches. One has to ask WHY UHart's progam never got off the ground? It's an interesting question to be discussing.

Exactly. And CCSU was ridiculed by the media and the State for doing the same thing - going from D-II to D-I in the 1980s. We we stuck as an independent for years, blocked by Hartford's admission to the North Atlantic Conference, and we had many other political and institutional challanges over the years.

Hartford never had the success, size, or alumni support as CCSU, but they were private and had more flexibilities so everyone just thought they would be successful like an Xavier or Richmond. But the lack of any private academic prestige, ugly campus and a lot of other issues were always there.

In hindsight, this is the logical choice and too many people are just clinging to a single and recent NCAA appearance. They had to bribe fans with concerts to draw a few thousand at the Civic Center and draw flies for the last decades in West Hartford.

 

[CL82]

Yes, cut a quote in half and then conclude the half you quoted is condescending. Thank you much.

The whole post is condescending. If you don't realize that in retrospect, you aren't particularly self-aware.

We need nurses, and they may as a group be more useful and better people than lawyers. But at schools with dedicated nursing programs, you are teaching a trade. It is not the same as providing a liberal arts education. If you really find that condescending, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's not a good one.

Lol, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not a good one? That's not doubling down on condescension. ?

In any event condescension is a tool that the uniformed use to insulate themselves from criticism. The notion that nursing is a trade rather than a profession is woefully ignorant. So let's consider what the criteria for a profession is.

A profession is described as an occupation in which specialized training is required. It requires prolonged training and formal qualifications to ensure competent performance of individuals within its ranks. Typically, within the US, professions are distinguished by certain specific characteristics; these include, but are not limited to: formal educational requirements, autonomy of practice, adherence to an established code of ethics, expansion of the level of knowledge, and a common culture and values present among members. Nursing meets all of this criteria.

(FWIW many 4 years degrees do not. By wrongly sneering that nursing was not a profession you showed your distain for all non-professional careers. It isn't a particularly good look.)

Independent of your lack awareness of nursing as a profession, you are also, apparently unaware that a BSN is a four year degree. So nursing students receive all the benefits of a broad based college education in the same way that all college students do.

So, yes, your post was stunningly condescending and, well let's just say it, ignorant. Hopefully, you are now better informed and perhaps just a bit more self-aware.

You're welcome.

 

[businesslawyer]

The whole post is condescending. If you don't realize that in retrospect, you aren't particularly self-aware.

Lol, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not a good one? That's not doubling down on condescension. ?

In any event condescension is a tool that the uniformed use to insulate themselves from criticism. The notion that nursing is a trade rather than a profession is woefully ignorant. So let's consider what the criteria for a profession is.

A profession is described as an occupation in which specialized training is required. It requires prolonged training and formal qualifications to ensure competent performance of individuals within its ranks. Typically, within the US, professions are distinguished by certain specific characteristics; these include, but are not limited to: formal educational requirements, autonomy of practice, adherence to an established code of ethics, expansion of the level of knowledge, and a common culture and values present among members. Nursing meets all of this criteria.

(FWIW many 4 years degrees do not. By wrongly sneering that nursing was not a profession you showed your distain for all non-professional careers. It isn't a particularly good look.)

Independent of your lack awareness of nursing as a profession, you are also, apparently unaware that a BSN is a four year degree. So nursing students receive all the benefits of a broad based college education in the same way that all college students do.

So, yes, your post was a stunningly condescending and, well let's just say it, ignorant. Hopefully, you are now better informed and perhaps just a bit more self-aware.

You're welcome.

1. I don't at all mind being condescending to you. I'm only bothered when you pretend I'm being condescending to nurses.

2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.

3. I have no problem with people with non-professional careers. At the dinner party at my house last weekend with ten people, probably are closest group of friends, exactly half had professional careers and half didn't. But I refuse to pretend that there isn't a difference between going to college to become well educated and going to college to learn a particular skill just because you find it condescending. Those two paths mean different things for both universities and students.

 

[pepband99]

But training nurses is nothing like training well rounded and intellectually curious college students.

As the husband of a brilliant nurse who would have run academic circles around me (and still would), and went to Fairfield - go find a cinder block and a lake.

 

[CL82]

1. I don't at all mind being condescending to you. I'm only bothered when you pretend I'm being condescending to nurses.

Since your initial post wasn't aimed at me, it's kind of hard to claim it's condescension was aimed at me, but the fact that you are trying to distance yourself from it... is growth... of a sort. So good for you.

2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.

Ah, so the profession of nursing is a mere trade because you "know people who believe that people in their classes have little interest in political science classes." Lol, c'mon biz SMH. That's a bit of a reach wouldn't you say?

3. I have no problem with people with non-professional careers. At the dinner party at my house last weekend with ten people, probably are closest group of friends, exactly half had professional careers and half didn't. But I refuse to pretend that there isn't a difference between going to college to become well educated and going to college to learn a particular skill just because you find it condescending. Those two paths mean different things for both universities and students.

Lol, let me get this right, you believe that you are the arbiter, based upon your impression of the career path as to which students are attending "to become better educated" and which are merely "learning a particular skill." Seriously, do you hear yourself? You are amazingly lacking in self-awareness.

(Oh and thanks for letting us know that you deign to associate with non-professionals. It is really quite noble of you.) ?

 

[pepband99]

2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.

Come on. How many business majors actually have interest in accounting? How many engineers for calculus? How many sane people had an interest in what was Chem 127 many years ago?

Shoot - how many law school people get a JD to go into Politics? (coughChrisMurphycough)

You're smarter than this.

 

[the Q]

They will probably try to join the LEC I guess, but not sure the LEC would want them.

Lec or the commonwealth coast conference

 

[crazyUCfan23]

Lec or the commonwealth coast conference

I doubt Eastern or Westconn would want another team in the conference from CT. LEC is all public schools too (at least I think so)