Goodman: Hurley to UConn (not official)

[intlzncster]

You are making a lot of assumptions here. Everything has a value. I was just using the stock analogy to explain that the market is not always right and that disciplined negotiation is usually a better way to approach a hire. I gave a couple of examples of coaches who would probably take the job for $1 to $1.5 million. Hurley might as well. This idea that because we paid Ollie $3 million we should do again for an up & coming coach who's still relatively unproven doesn't make sense to me. If I'm wrong and we can't get a good coach for $1.5 million then of course we need to move up to what it takes. I just think having multiple options and not getting carried away on one guy is a more, disciplined, better approach that would likely yield better results.

Of course you don't want to pay Hurley $4m in a bidding war with Pitt. Doesn't make sense.

But right now Danny Hurley makes more than $1m in total compensation (base+incentives). I think people are forgetting that.

My whole point is that the market for guys of a similar level of experience is higher than that $1.5m number.

The key for UCONN will be to somehow avoid the big buyout to start.

 

[whaler11]

It's a university position. Theoretically, they can hire millions of coaches if they wanted to. There is no language that says there can be only one basketball coach.

Maybe they can just pay Hurley enough to fund the buy-out.

 

[businesslawyer]

It's a university position. Theoretically, they can hire millions of coaches if they wanted to. There is no language that says there can be only one basketball coach.

You can't have two head basketball coaches. If you hire one while KO is technically head basketball coach, you may be viewed as having violated his agreement.

 

[gampelcrazies]

If they hire Hurley its going to be for $3+ mil. It's the going rate for big time schools. The problem with Ollie is he shouldn't have been extended for so long.

 

[intlzncster]

If they hire Hurley its going to be for $3+ mil. It's the going rate for big time schools. The problem with Ollie is he shouldn't have been extended for so long.

He shouldn't have been given the onerous buyout. 4 years at $3m per, with a buyout of half the remainder of the deal would have been doable, and still high level. After 2 years, you are looking at a $3m buyout. Extend him if he makes it 3 years into the deal.

 

[husky429]

What's better for you all:

High salary/low buyout

Or

Low salary/high buyout


Because that's probably what were looking at with any coach. If I were hurley id go for a longer contract or high buyout. It could take a while to turn this around

 

[Uconnfanatic]

If they hire Hurley its going to be for $3+ mil. It's the going rate for big time schools. The problem with Ollie is he shouldn't have been extended for so long.

I call that overpaying. There are likely better young coaches than Hurley out there that would jump at the chance to bring UConn back to its former status and would would see $1.5 million as a very good offer and a big step up in pay. Otzelberger and Konkol are two and I'm sure there are many others and they could prove to bhe better coaches than Hurley. I'm not against Hurley. I just want DB to be thorough and disciplined and not just go with the popular choice, particularly if it involves a bidding war. I am also not suggesting we settle. I just think that there are several good, young coaches out there. We just have to find them.

 

[Paesano]

If they hire Hurley its going to be for $3+ mil. It's the going rate for big time schools. The problem with Ollie is he shouldn't have been extended for so long.

Um, no. He will get somewhere between the ludicrous 1.5 and 3 numbers. I would guess 2 with a ton of incentives. 1.5 mill bonus for winning a championship, 1 mill bonus for a final four and so on. If he performs at high major levels, he will get high major money. It also keeps the buyout reasonable.

 

[upstater]

You can't have two head basketball coaches. If you hire one while KO is technically head basketball coach, you may be viewed as having violated his agreement.

Under the AAU guidelines, it is Ollie's faculty position that is protected in the contract.

In other words, this is a matter of employment and the money owed from the university, not a matter of his actual duties. I've seen Deans and Provosts dismissed (just recently, one at my school for "just cause") and they fought it, but that didn't stop the school from relieving them of their duties. In other words, this is a matter of money. The school has the right to assign duties elsewhere immediately.

 

[nomar]

Most important piece of info from this post imo

That's a lot of cheddar

 

[Jaybird65]

Are you sure about that there an article on the courant with members from the higher learning committee talking about this

Legislators Say More Money Isn't There If UConn Is Forced To Pay Ollie

According the State of CT Transparency website, his 2016-2917 salary from taxpayer monies was $342k including fringe benefits. The remainder is from funds generated from fundraising efforts by the UConn Foundation.

 

[Confident Carl]

But that's just it, the market is higher than that now. Guys with similar experience are getting north of $2mil these days. And all candidates know this.

So you either have a choice, accept the fact that you'll get either the 6-7 best candidate on your list, or someone who has little experience whatsoever. Either way, you are increasing your risk substantially to save money.

You're looking to make money on your basketball program. If you don't invest like other schools do, you will not likely win on their level. If you don't win, fans lose interest, the school loses money. There's an ROI factor to consider here.

A few years ago, that $1.5m number would make sense. But the market changes (rises).

I said it before, but it bears repeating: Rutgers, of all places, pays $1.5m with a $5m buyout. Over $14m guaranteed. And they did that so they could retain a guy who has gone ‎30-37 (.448). People were going to offer more for THAT record. That's the market. And again, unlike stocks, it's not going to come down anytime soon.

These historical UCONN men's BB attendance figures show the sense of urgency to turn the program around .Benedict can't afford to hire a coach who won't make a difference at the box office, otherwise Ollie may have been given 1 more year to turn things around. It's pretty obvious that Benedict needs to do something dramatic and impactful now!

The program is in the balance and a good up and coming mid major coach or a Major retread have their risks.. We need a name who can win immediately! If we get back to winning, attendance should get back to over 10k/game avg. In 2017 UCONN averaged an abysmal 8,500 per game. I like Danny Hurley but for some reason I can't get the idea of Calhoun coming back with Glen Miller at his side. Certainly Miller could have done better career wise than a DIII start up assistants job. Was this the plan all along? I think the idea of Calhoun coming back at a lower salary to save the program visa vi Randy Edsal, especially because he was the guy that recommended KO is a good possibility!

Things deteriorated too far. The bleeding has to stop!

Last 20 years UCONN men's basketball attendance and rank amount D-1 programs:

2017 - 8,500 - 52
2016 - 10,413 - 40
2015 - 10,687 - 37
2014 - 10,134 - 40
2013 - 10,728 - 34
2012 - 12,640 - 26
2011 - 11,569 - 32
2010 - 11,685 - 34
2009 - 12,518 - 28
2008 - 11,887 - 32
2007 - 13,012 - 20
2006 - 13,948 - 19
2005 - 13,771 - 15
2004 - 13,549 - 20
2003 - 13,229 - 21
2002 - 13,709 - 19
2001 - 12,543 - 20
2000 - 13,543 - 21
1999 - 13,345 - 22

 

[Mr. French]

Goodman reminds me of a Shallow Hal character. Glamorized to be a handsome reporter, but when Hal sees clearly after ESPN’s budget cuts, he sees Goodman’s real face.

Liked for everything Shallow Hal related.

 

[Kathy]

Coincidentally 2014 was the 1st year in the American and last year for Louisville and Rutgers.

 

[intlzncster]

I call that overpaying. There are likely better young coaches than Hurley out there that would jump at the chance to bring UConn back to its former status and would would see $1.5 million as a very good offer and a big step up in pay. Otzelberger and Konkol are two and I'm sure there are many others and they could prove to bhe better coaches than Hurley. I'm not against Hurley. I just want DB to be thorough and disciplined and not just go with the popular choice, particularly if it involves a bidding war. I am also not suggesting we settle. I just think that there are several good, young coaches out there. We just have to find them.

Why are Otzelberger and Konkol better than Hurley? They have less experience and less success as HCs.

Otzelberger only has 2 years of HC experience. He has done well by winning the Summitt league once, the tournament twice. But this is a team that over the last few years finished 1st or 2nd. Credit for sustaining success.

Konkol only has 3 years of HC experience. He won his first two years with Mike White's recruits and barely went .500 his last year. His next year might determine who he is. Could very well be Ollie in disguise. No conference championships. No NCAA tournament experience.

 

[the Q]

Why are Otzelberger and Konkol better than Hurley? They have less experience and less success as HCs.

Otzelberger only has 2 years of HC experience. He has done well by winning the Summitt league once, the tournament twice. But this is a team that over the last few years finished 1st or 2nd. Credit for sustaining success.

Konkol only has 3 years of HC experience. He won his first two years with Mike White's recruits and barely went .500 his last year. His next year might determine who he is. Could very well be Ollie in disguise. No conference championships. No NCAA tournament experience.

Oh good. This game is fun.

now try Oats and CB McGrath on for size.

 

[8893]

That's a lot of cheddar

No, it’s not.

“That’s rich” would have been acceptable, but Gorgonzola is light years away from cheddar.

 

[Matrim55]

Oh good. This game is fun.

now try Oats and CB McGrath on for size.

Oats has the same issue as Otz & Konkol: Only three years of HC experience at the college level. He's done great work and has a UConn tie (Donyell), but you don't know if his team's current good form is because he got lucky with one group of recruits or if it's something he can sustain and build upon. Same goes for guys like Dooley (FGCU) and Earl Grant (Charleston).

McGrath is in even worse shape, as he's had only one year and that team was miserable. There's no track-record.

The other issue with Oats in particular is he's never recruited elite players – Buffalo's the biggest team (only team) he's been HC or AC of. That's less of an issue with most other guys who are rumored here or elsewhere.

What makes Hurley so appealing are three things:

1. He has a track-record as a head coach. URI have gotten progressively better, but he's shown he can have guys graduate and/or get hurt and still produce a winning team. He's not a "got lucky with one group of recruits and rode them to a few good years" coach. There's a level of certainty there that doesn't exist with most of the other guys being rumored.

2. He has a track-record as a program re-builder. He turned Wagner around in two years and turned URI around in three.

3. He has a track-record as a recruiter. Dude's not Calipari, but he's won his share of 4-star recruits and has recruited in the Big East before. He won't be out of place going after the types of guys that we want.

Is it a guarantee that we get him, or that he's the right pick? Nope. But he checks more boxes than any other realistic candidate, balancing certainty (the guy can clearly coach and recruit) and upside (he's at a stage where his best years are probably ahead of him).

I also like that his guys don't transfer. I want some stability back in the program, and hopefully he brings that with him.

 

[UConnNick]

He shouldn't get more than half of Ollie's salary. We way overpaid Ollie. We shouldn't make the same mistake again. I think half of Ollie's salary is still 2 1/2 times what Hurley makes at URI. Let him prove himself before we pay the kind of money Ollie was given. He's not going to Pitt. He knows UConn is a far better opportunity with less risk of failure. Plus his kids don't have to be disrupted from the schools they are in if he's at UConn.

Are you suggesting he's going to live in Kingston and commute to Storrs? That's at least a 100 mile round trip. That's quite a commute over nothing but secondary roads, particularly in the winter with ice and snow.

 

[DAC17]

No matter what happens, this is likely the last chance for the hopes of UConn to go back to anywhere near its prior glory. If this fails (and football is likely to go with it), we're back to being a mid-major in perpetuity.

Pray for success, whoever it might be.

 

[the Q]

Oats has the same issue as Otz & Konkol: Only three years of HC experience at the college level. He's done great work and has a UConn tie (Donyell), but you don't know if his team's current good form is because he got lucky with one group of recruits or if it's something he can sustain and build upon. Same goes for guys like Dooley (FGCU) and Earl Grant (Charleston).

McGrath is in even worse shape, as he's had only one year and that team was miserable. There's no track-record.

The other issue with Oats in particular is he's never recruited elite players – Buffalo's the biggest team (only team) he's been HC or AC of. That's less of an issue with most other guys who are rumored here or elsewhere.

What makes Hurley so appealing are three things:

1. He has a track-record as a head coach. URI have gotten progressively better, but he's shown he can have guys graduate and/or get hurt and still produce a winning team. He's not a "got lucky with one group of recruits and rode them to a few good years" coach. There's a level of certainty there that doesn't exist with most of the other guys being rumored.

2. He has a track-record as a program re-builder. He turned Wagner around in two years and turned URI around in three.

3. He has a track-record as a recruiter. Dude's not Calipari, but he's won his share of 4-star recruits and has recruited in the Big East before. He won't be out of place going after the types of guys that we want.

Is it a guarantee that we get him, or that he's the right pick? Nope. But he checks more boxes than any other realistic candidate, balancing certainty (the guy can clearly coach and recruit) and upside (he's at a stage where his best years are probably ahead of him).

I also like that his guys don't transfer. I want some stability back in the program, and hopefully he brings that with him.

Oats finally got some guys who were 3-4 stars for this upcoming class.

McGrath was with Roy will for over a decade and has 2 titles as an asst coach and was one of their key recruiters.

But fair on the points with Hurley.

 

[Matrim55]

No matter what happens, this is likely the last chance for the hopes of UConn to go back to anywhere near its prior glory. If this fails (and football is likely to go with it), we're back to being a mid-major in perpetuity.

Stop it. Even if we're in the AAC for good (please god no) we're only one good coaching hire away from being relevant again.

McGrath was with Roy will for over a decade and has 2 titles as an asst coach and was one of their key recruiters.

Yup. But so far it's not clear he can coach worth a damn.

I'd take a look at him after Year 4 at the earliest. We just had our run with "assistant who can recruit but has insufficient head coaching experience" and look where we are now.

 

[intlzncster]

Most important piece of info from this post imo

I would call this the extreme exception. Few could name his price at any school. He'd have no problem commanding $4m.

 

[Huskyforlife]

The fact there are still people trying to shat on Hurley is incredible. Guys, Brad Stevens isn’t available anywhere. Hurley is a great coach, who has done all of his coaching in NE, and is by far the most ready mid major coach to go up a level.

 

[Uconnfanatic]

Why are Otzelberger and Konkol better than Hurley? They have less experience and less success as HCs.

Otzelberger only has 2 years of HC experience. He has done well by winning the Summitt league once, the tournament twice. But this is a team that over the last few years finished 1st or 2nd. Credit for sustaining success.

Konkol only has 3 years of HC experience. He won his first two years with Mike White's recruits and barely went .500 his last year. His next year might determine who he is. Could very well be Ollie in disguise. No conference championships. No NCAA tournament experience.

I didn't say they were better. I said they could turn out to be better coaches. the point is we don't know. I like what I see in their overall resumes. Otzelberger looks like he really helped develop players at Iowa State before becoming the head coach at South dakota State. I'm not endorsing anyone and i'm not opposed to Hurley. I am saying I would prefer they not get caught up in a bidding war and overpay for Hurley. If that happens I would look at some of these alternatives.