Goodman: Hurley to UConn (not official)

[Huskyforlife]

Of course "not a dime back,' but does anyone think Calhoun might contribute to Hurley's contract? Speculation makes it seem like he's in on this deal, plus he knows we need financial support.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Of course "not a dime back,' but does anyone think Calhoun might contribute to Hurley's contract? Speculation makes it seem like he's in on this deal, plus he knows we need financial support.

What are you saying here? Jim Calhoun pay $ out of his own pocket to help fund Hurley’s salary???

 

[intlzncster]

When you look at this list the vast majority are much more experienced than Hurley. That said, we won't pay less than PC.

RK SCHOOL CONF COACH SCHOOL PAY TOTAL PAY MAX BONUS BONUSES PAID (2016-17) SCHOOL BUYOUT AS OF 4/1/18
1 Duke ACC Mike Krzyzewski $8,982,325 $8,982,325 -- -- --
2 Kentucky SEC John Calipari $7,450,000 $7,994,147 $50,000 $50,000 $30,000,000
3 Ohio State Big Ten Chris Holtmann $7,149,849 $7,149,849 $390,000 -- $19,575,000
4 Kansas Big 12 Bill Self $4,779,877 $4,954,877 $525,000 $88,333 $16,156,000
5 Michigan State Big Ten Tom Izzo $3,652,979 $4,359,979 $350,000 $25,000 $5,216,388
6 Arizona Pac-12 Sean Miller $3,654,853 $4,054,853 $1,260,000 $290,000 $5,033,334
7 West Virginia Big 12 Bob Huggins $3,750,000 $3,760,000 $640,000 $175,000 $11,015,000
8 Utah Pac-12 Larry Krystkowiak $3,390,000 $3,390,000 $280,000 $80,000 $15,750,000
9 Michigan Big Ten John Beilein $3,370,000 $3,370,000 $250,000 $100,000 $5,000,000
10 Indiana Big Ten Archie Miller $3,200,000 $3,200,000 $1,035,000 -- $20,477,397
11 Oklahoma Big 12 Lon Kruger $3,100,000 $3,100,000 $270,000 $25,000 $3,900,000
12 Texas Big 12 Shaka Smart $3,100,000 $3,100,000 $1,045,000 $0 $17,000,000
13 Wichita State Mo. Valley Gregg Marshall $3,000,000 $3,044,000 $813,000 $248,000 $15,000,000
14 Virginia ACC Tony Bennett $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $1,450,000 $50,000 $17,650,000
15 Alabama SEC Avery Johnson $2,899,497 $2,899,497 $450,000 $25,000 $9,000,000
16 Baylor Big 12 Scott Drew $2,865,975 $2,872,975 -- -- --
17 South Carolina SEC Frank Martin $2,850,000 $2,850,000 $735,000 $272,000 $15,500,000
18 Illinois Big Ten Brad Underwood $2,755,450 $2,755,450 $900,000 -- $15,479,167
19 Virginia Tech ACC Buzz Williams $2,750,000 $2,750,000 $290,000 $55,000 $15,417,708
20 Maryland Big Ten Mark Turgeon $2,700,915 $2,700,915 $445,000 $25,000 $15,640,624
21 Missouri SEC Cuonzo Martin $2,700,000 $2,700,000 $605,000 -- --
22 Oregon Pac-12 Dana Altman $2,700,000 $2,700,000 $575,000 $235,000 $14,321,232
23 UCLA Pac-12 Steve Alford $2,600,000 $2,604,000 $310,500 $60,000 $6,200,000
24 Villanova Big East Jay Wright $2,585,041 $2,585,041 -- -- --
25 Arkansas SEC Mike Anderson $2,550,000 $2,550,000 $1,000,000 $125,000 $3,980,769
26 Florida SEC Michael White $2,537,758 $2,537,758 $300,000 $100,000 $8,822,917
27 Auburn SEC Bruce Pearl $2,500,000 $2,527,000 $1,100,000 $175,000 $2,962,500
28 LSU SEC Will Wade $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $800,000 -- $13,125,000
29 Purdue Big Ten Matt Painter $2,478,795 $2,478,795 $854,425 $251,475 $12,392,244
30 Notre Dame ACC Mike Brey $1,227,910 $2,377,910 -- -- --
31 Texas A&M SEC Billy Kennedy $2,350,000 $2,350,000 $800,000 $12,000 $4,500,000
32 Kansas State Big 12 Bruce Weber $2,250,000 $2,250,740 $863,000 $189,000 $2,429,167
33 Nebraska Big Ten Tim Miles $2,250,080 $2,250,080 $550,000 $0 $2,520,000
34 Tennessee SEC Rick Barnes $2,250,000 $2,250,000 $700,000 $0 $3,041,667
35 Wisconsin Big Ten Greg Gard $2,250,000 $2,250,000 $400,000 $100,000 $2,500,000
36 Florida State ACC Leonard Hamilton $2,250,000 $2,250,000 $2,675,000 $475,000 --
37 Iowa Big Ten Fran McCaffery $2,225,000 $2,228,942 $1,030,000 $37,500 $10,200,000
38 Cincinnati AAC Mick Cronin $2,217,465 $2,217,465 $640,000 $145,000 $4,400,000
39 Providence Big East Ed Cooley $2,204,030 $2,204,030 -- -- --
40 North Carolina State ACC Kevin Keatts $2,200,000 $2,200,000 $1,000,000 -- $5,545,833
41 North Carolina ACC Roy Williams $2,182,986 $2,182,986 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $1,854,933
42 Georgia SEC Mark Fox $2,150,000 $2,153,500 $850,000 $50,000 $1,100,000
43 Syracuse ACC Jim Boeheim $2,151,736 $2,151,736 -- -- --
44 Arizona State Pac-12 Bobby Hurley $2,100,000 $2,100,000 $1,985,000 $150,000 $5,950,000
45 Mississippi State SEC Ben Howland $2,100,000 $2,100,000 $575,000 $0 --
46 Mississippi SEC Andy Kennedy $2,050,000 $2,050,000 $900,000 $25,000 --
47 Iowa State Big 12 Steve Prohm $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $675,000 $125,000 $4,500,000
48 Oregon State Pac-12 Wayne Tinkle $1,966,668 $1,966,668 $660,000 $16,000 $8,650,020
49 Minnesota Big Ten Richard Pitino $1,957,753 $1,957,753 $600,000 $200,000 $4,053,496
50 Gonzaga West Coast Mark Few $1,934,104 $1,934,104 -- -- --
51 Clemson ACC Brad Brownell $1,800,000 $1,803,324 $475,000 $20,000 $1,700,000
52 Washington Pac-12 Mike Hopkins $1,800,004 $1,800,004 $370,000 -- $10,500,020
53 Wake Forest ACC Danny Manning $1,748,878 $1,748,878 -- -- --
54 Georgia Tech ACC Josh Pastner $1,700,000 $1,700,000 $500,000 $150,000 $8,931,667
55 Xavier Big East Chris Mack $1,668,930 $1,668,930 -- -- --
56 Rutgers Big Ten Steve Pikiell $1,600,000 $1,600,000 $480,000 $0 $9,600,000
57 Miami (Fla.) ACC Jim Larranaga $1,526,735 $1,526,735 -- -- --

You're right, but take a look at some of the recent hires. If you want a good up and comer, you're paying for it:

LSU - Will Wade - $2.4m
Bobby Hurley - ASU - $2.1m
Iowa State - Steve Prohm - $2m
Pikiell at Rutgers, as mentioned, makes $1.5m

Even guys like Archie Miller (Indiana), who doesn't have Hurley's HC experience, makes $3.5m.

 

[intlzncster]

Of course "not a dime back,' but does anyone think Calhoun might contribute to Hurley's contract? Speculation makes it seem like he's in on this deal, plus he knows we need financial support.

 

[businesslawyer]

If that's the case, I would pass. There are others that could turn out to be better options. If he comes I will behind him 100% but just like any of the likely candidates, there are questions. We have to be willing to walk away if someone else wants to overpay. At this stage in his career and given the unknowns, we shouldn't be overpaying.

I have a question: if others are willing to pay him an amount, how is you paying him that amount "overpaying?" Isn't that by definition his market value? Or is "overpaying" an amount that you personally don't agree with?

 

[tentoes4rings]

Goodman: Fogler to Pitt (not official)

Eddie Fogler is a consulting firm that helps schools find coaches, not a coach himself, lol.

 

[Uconnfanatic]

It's not taxpayer money.

It sure is taxpayers' money. And yes UConn BB has been a net producer of revenues but it is part of an overall athletic budget and not overpaying should be a priority. There are other coaches that arguably may be even better than Hurley. Administration should not get caught in a bidding war for this year's anointed pick.

 

[JMick]

It sure is taxpayers' money. And yes UConn BB has been a net producer of revenues but it is part of an overall athletic budget and not overpaying should be a priority. There are other coaches that arguably may be even better than Hurley. Administration should not get caught in a bidding war for this year's anointed pick.

I'll do it for half. How's that?

 

[Uconnfanatic]

I have a question: if others are willing to pay him an amount, how is you paying him that amount "overpaying?" Isn't that be definition his market value? Or is "overpaying" an amount that you personally don't agree with?

As an investment professional, I can tell you that kind of thinking has led to a lot of overpaying on stocks over the years and some pretty lousy results. Look at the track record of corporate takeovers where there wetre bidding wars. In most cases, the company that outbid and won the bidding war overpaid and its shareholders came to regret that decision.

I would much prefer a disciplined approach where the administration narrows it to a top three or four candidates who are interested in the position and be prepared to move to a second or third choice if the first choice is not interested in your offer. Unfortunately athletic directors are not typically very skilled at negotiations or this kind of decision-making process but they should be.

 

[HawkHusky]

Eddie Fogler is a consulting firm that helps schools find coaches, not a coach himself, lol.

Do you think Basketball Insider Goodman doesn't know that or he's trolling a certain fan-base?

Weak minded betas like myself yearn to know...

 

[tcf15]

Eddie Fogler is a consulting firm that helps schools find coaches, not a coach himself, lol.

Eddie Fogler was a coach who now runs a consulting firm: Eddie Fogler - Wikipedia

Pitt using Fogler Consulting to assist in men's basketball coaching search
Pitt has turned to consultant Eddie Fogler to assist it in its search for a men’s basketball coach, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

Fogler was a Division I head coach for 15 seasons, leading programs at South Carolina (1993-2001), Vanderbilt (1989-93) and Wichita State (1986-89). He was named coach of the year in 1993 by the Associated Press and the National Association of Basketball coaches after leading Vanderbilt to a 28-6 record and an SEC regular season championship.

 

[Huskyforlife]

What are you saying here? Jim Calhoun pay $ out of his own pocket to help fund Hurley’s salary???

As any other donor would, yes. Personally, I'd be surprised if Calhoun wouldn't do what it takes to help the program. This doesn't mean paying Danny's entire salary, of course.

 

[fatlucy]

It sure is taxpayers' money. And yes UConn BB has been a net producer of revenues but it is part of an overall athletic budget and not overpaying should be a priority. There are other coaches that arguably may be even better than Hurley. Administration should not get caught in a bidding war for this year's anointed pick.

Yes, its taxpayer money but paying market rate isn't overpaying. Your cap of $1.5m is well under market rate and dooms us to mediocrity forever, at best. Just b/c we're a state school doesn't mean we don't may market rate. We have to make it attractive.

The money we pay for elite level basketball pays for itself by giving CT as sense of unity and one hell of a lot of positive publicity which is something we sorely need. Otherwise we're just a small suburban state no one cares about where people live who work in NY. Oh, and we're also known as the state that's perpetually broke b/c the unions (who are trying to bleed us for Ollie's unearned buyout Ollie) bleed us for every penny we can hope to make.

 

[businesslawyer]

As an investment professional, I can tell you that kind of thinking has led to a lot of overpaying on stocks over the years and some pretty lousy results. Look at the track record of corporate takeovers where there wetre bidding wars. In most cases, the company that outbid and won the bidding war overpaid and its shareholders came to regret that decision.

I would much prefer a disciplined approach where the administration narrows it to a top three or four candidates who are interested in the position and be prepared to move to a second or third choice if the first choice is not interested in your offer. Unfortunately athletic directors are not typically very skilled at negotiations or this kind of decision-making process but they should be.

Good god. Another "if only everyone was as smart as me" poster. Just what we need.

The price of a stock at any time represents the equilibrium between those who think it's overvalued and those who think it's undervalued. Nothing more, nothing less. You can think the market is wrong and invest accordingly. WTF does that have to do with coaching? They University has to decide who they want and then see if they can get him for a price they are willing to pay. But paying him what he can get elsewhere is not overpaying.

 

[intlzncster]

$1.5 million or move on to other candidates. I bet Otzelberger or Konkol would be excited to sign a $1 million contract and either one might prove to be a better choice in the long-term. Hurley is the most obvious choice but not necessarily the best choice.

If those two are in fact good, they can wait a couple years and pick up $3m offers at P5s. The market has shifted north.

If that's the case, I would pass. There are others that could turn out to be better options. If he comes I will behind him 100% but just like any of the likely candidates, there are questions. We have to be willing to walk away if someone else wants to overpay. At this stage in his career and given the unknowns, we shouldn't be overpaying.

Top 50 schools or so are approx $2mill+. If we go $1.5m we advertise that we're now a mid major, lower P5 at best.

 

[intlzncster]

As an investment professional, I can tell you that kind of thinking has led to a lot of overpaying on stocks over the years and some pretty lousy results. Look at the track record of corporate takeovers where there wetre bidding wars. In most cases, the company that outbid and won the bidding war overpaid and its shareholders came to regret that decision.

I would much prefer a disciplined approach where the administration narrows it to a top three or four candidates who are interested in the position and be prepared to move to a second or third choice if the first choice is not interested in your offer. Unfortunately athletic directors are not typically very skilled at negotiations or this kind of decision-making process but they should be.

If you are treating coaches as stocks, what is the value of a coach? How are you determining it? Is there some sort of NPV or DCF? You picked $1.5m out of thin air. Unlike stocks, the coaching market isn't going to fall in price any time soon, so that you can buy value.

If you are paying what you mentioned earlier in the article, the Top 5 candidates will have no interest, and will likely look elsewhere, as they will get paid. We'll settle for a lesser coach at a bigger gamble. If it ultimately sinks us lower, we reap the rewards down the road.

You seem to want to accept low major status. The rest of us are looking to be a Top 20 program. If you are Top 20, you pay well north of $1.5m.

I mean Rutgers, of all places, pays $1.5m with a $5m buyout. Over $14m guaranteed. And they did that so they could retain a guy who has gone ‎30-37 (.448). People were going to offer more for THAT record. That's the market. And again, unlike stocks, it's not going to come down anytime soon.

 

[intlzncster]

As any other donor would, yes. Personally, I'd be surprised if Calhoun wouldn't do what it takes to help the program. This doesn't mean paying Danny's entire salary, of course.

I think Jim feels like he's done way more than enough for the BB program (and he's right). Besides, he uses his time and money for other, let's face it, much more worthwhile causes (medical care/research).

 

[gtcam]

I have a question: if others are willing to pay him an amount, how is you paying him that amount "overpaying?" Isn't that by definition his market value? Or is "overpaying" an amount that you personally don't agree with?

I understand what you are getting at but if 1 other school offers him an outlandish amount - does that now place it at a true market value? Yes, "overpaying" turns into a personal decision due to the fact you don't think that item is worth it, in your opinion, the other consumer "overpaid". However if a multitude are willing to pay a certain price then, yes, it becomes a measurable and then a market price.
I'm not sure we can apply too much of that here because only two or three schools are pursuing one of a commodity. Set your price and stick to it is probably a safe bet - of course unless you are talking about a JC, MK, J Wooden or Geno, but we aren't. D Hurley is unproven in the national arena and in my opinion should not be paid on the level of anyone on that list - at least not now.
If UConn is to hire D Hurley, anywhere above$1.5 per annum makes no sense for first 3-4 years. Giving KO $3M was/is plain stupidity but a contract is a contract

 

[Uconnfanatic]

Good god. Another "if only everyone was as smart as me" poster. Just what we need.

The price of a stock at any time represents the equilibrium between those who think it's overvalued and those who think it's undervalued. Nothing more, nothing less. You can think the market is wrong and invest accordingly. WTF does that have to do with coaching? They University has to decide who they want and then see if they can get him for a price they are willing to pay. But paying him what he can get elsewhere is not overpaying.

My post was answering your question about how paying what others are willing to pay can be considered overpaying. I gave you my view from an investment manager's perspective since I've spent 44 years battling that perception that the market is always right. I do think UConn would be better off with a thorough search and a disciplined negotiation process. You don't have to agree but you also don't have to be an ass about it. You are the one with the ego problem.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

50 Gorgonzola West Coast Mark Few $1,934,104 $1,934,104

Most important piece of info from this post imo

 

[Uconnfanatic]

If you are treating coaches as stocks, what is the value of a coach? How are you determining it? Is there some sort of NPV or DCF? You picked $1.5m out of thin air. Unlike stocks, the coaching market isn't going to fall in price any time soon, so that you can buy value.

If you are paying what you mentioned earlier in the article, the Top 5 candidates will have no interest, and will likely look elsewhere, as they will get paid. We'll settle for a lesser coach at a bigger gamble. If it ultimately sinks us lower, we reap the rewards down the road.

You seem to want to accept low major status. The rest of us are looking to be a Top 20 program. If you are Top 20, you pay well north of $1.5m.

I mean Rutgers, of all places, pays $1.5m with a $5m buyout. Over $14m guaranteed. And they did that so they could retain a guy who has gone ‎30-37 (.448). People were going to offer more for THAT record. That's the market. And again, unlike stocks, it's not going to come down anytime soon.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. Everything has a value. I was just using the stock analogy to explain that the market is not always right and that disciplined negotiation is usually a better way to approach a hire. I gave a couple of examples of coaches who would probably take the job for $1 to $1.5 million. Hurley might as well. This idea that because we paid Ollie $3 million we should do again for an up & coming coach who's still relatively unproven doesn't make sense to me. If I'm wrong and we can't get a good coach for $1.5 million then of course we need to move up to what it takes. I just think having multiple options and not getting carried away on one guy is a more, disciplined, better approach that would likely yield better results.

 

[intlzncster]

If UConn is to hire D Hurley, anywhere above$1.5 per annum makes no sense for first 3-4 years. Giving KO $3M was/is plain stupidity but a contract is a contract

But that's just it, the market is higher than that now. Guys with similar experience are getting north of $2mil these days. And all candidates know this.

So you either have a choice, accept the fact that you'll get either the 6-7 best candidate on your list, or someone who has little experience whatsoever. Either way, you are increasing your risk substantially to save money.

You're looking to make money on your basketball program. If you don't invest like other schools do, you will not likely win on their level. If you don't win, fans lose interest, the school loses money. There's an ROI factor to consider here.

A few years ago, that $1.5m number would make sense. But the market changes (rises).

I said it before, but it bears repeating: Rutgers, of all places, pays $1.5m with a $5m buyout. Over $14m guaranteed. And they did that so they could retain a guy who has gone ‎30-37 (.448). People were going to offer more for THAT record. That's the market. And again, unlike stocks, it's not going to come down anytime soon.

 

[whaler11]

I have a question: if others are willing to pay him an amount, how is you paying him that amount "overpaying?" Isn't that by definition his market value? Or is "overpaying" an amount that you personally don't agree with?

As an investment professional, I can tell you that kind of thinking has led to a lot of overpaying on stocks over the years and some pretty lousy results. Look at the track record of corporate takeovers where there wetre bidding wars. In most cases, the company that outbid and won the bidding war overpaid and its shareholders came to regret that decision.

I would much prefer a disciplined approach where the administration narrows it to a top three or four candidates who are interested in the position and be prepared to move to a second or third choice if the first choice is not interested in your offer. Unfortunately athletic directors are not typically very skilled at negotiations or this kind of decision-making process but they should be.

Lotta words when you just need to say Winner’s Curse.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Fogler was a Division I head coach for 15 seasons, leading programs at South Carolina (1993-2001)...

So in an interesting connection to UConn and our history, Fogler was the second choice for South Carolina after they came thisclose to stealing Calhoun from UConn.

 

[upstater]

It all depends on what the CBA says. It is possible they can't formally offer it until the process resolves without giving up the "for cause" argument. But I don't think it matters. If they agree with Hurley on his deal and can explain when the process will be wrapped up either way, I'm not sure he cares.

It's a university position. Theoretically, they can hire millions of coaches if they wanted to. There is no language that says there can be only one basketball coach.