OT: GOAT of all GOATs

[the Q]

It’s babe Ruth or Gretzky

Brady isn’t even the best of his own era

Team success is not individual

 

[UncleSpliff]

This isn’t really a discussion. Jordan went 6 for 6 in title games (6 in a row for him) and would have won 8 straight if he didn’t take 2 years off to play baseball (wasn’t suspended by the league for gambling). Brady won 7 rings and lost 3 times.

Hell the biggest winner of all time in sports isn’t even on this list… Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 seasons. No team was more dominant in the history of sports than the Celtics from 57-70 and Russell was the leader of those teams.

 

[buddy]

Khalid El Amin for making the free throw in the national championship of 1999

 

[Rocktheworld]

Jordan retired (again) at 40 and was definitely not remotely the same player he was in his prime. There is a basketball player whose sustained dominance after 20 years is absolutely freakish and maybe unprecedented but I don't expect him to get much traction here.

Look you can’t even say his name lmao the ire that results

He really is like Voldemort to many people

And no it’s not “maybe” unprecedented

 

[Conndog]

I think their accomplishments are all so similar you could make a case for any of them. They have 21, 20 and 20 titles.

And speaking of tennis, what about other eras? Some people think Rod Laver was greatest of all time. For women, why only Serena and not Steffi Graf? What about careers cut short? I actually think that Monica Seles would have been the greatest tennis player, she had such unique skills (name another player with two handed backhand and two handed forehand), and she was so dominant but then she was stabbed by a crazy fan and she just wasn't the same afterward. As far as Brady being the GOAT in football, why no other football players? Even if people think he is the greatest quarterback, is that more important in football than being the greatest running back or receiver? Sticking with Brady for a moment, do people say he is GOAT because he (or this team really) has won more Super Bowls than any other team/quarterback? In sports with the largest number of players on a team (11, same as soccer), would Brady's team have won as many championships if they had a bad running game or poor receivers or lousy coaching etc? Don't football championships depend on combinations of performances by many people and not just the quarterback? At least in solo sports such as tennis or golf or swimming,, it is just one person who determines success and championships. I think to determine who is GOAT, you first at least need to divide sports into either individual or team sports. In fact, I would go further and try to have greatest of all time for all sports, and I think you'd have to separate men & women. Even then, you have to include athletes from multiple historical eras, and how much do performances improve when equipment improves? Look at golf, it is crazy how much farther the ball flies today, imagine if Tiger or any of today's golfers had to play with the same equipment that Hogan or even Nicklaus had to use.

bottom line, I think it is ludicrous to try to proclaim one person as the GOAT, it must be for bragging. I think the best fans of sports realize there are many athletes who qualify or could be considered one of the GOAT, hundreds really, and that is what makes sports so rich and fun to watch and appreciate!

 

[UCLJ0211]

And speaking of tennis, what about other eras? Some people think Rod Laver was greatest of all time. For women, why only Serena and not Steffi Graf? What about careers cut short? I actually think that Monica Seles would have been the greatest tennis player, she had such unique skills (name another player with two handed backhand and two handed forehand), and she was so dominant but then she was stabbed by a crazy fan and she just wasn't the same afterward. As far as Brady being the GOAT in football, why no other football players? Even if people think he is the greatest quarterback, is that more important in football than being the greatest running back or receiver? Sticking with Brady for a moment, do people say he is GOAT because he (or this team really) has won more Super Bowls than any other team/quarterback? In sports with the largest number of players on a team (11, same as soccer), would Brady's team have won as many championships if they had a bad running game or poor receivers or lousy coaching etc? Don't football championships depend on combinations of performances by many people and not just the quarterback? At least in solo sports such as tennis or golf or swimming,, it is just one person who determines success and championships. I think to determine who is GOAT, you first at least need to divide sports into either individual or team sports. In fact, I would go further and try to have greatest of all time for all sports, and I think you'd have to separate men & women. Even then, you have to include athletes from multiple historical eras, and how much do performances improve when equipment improves? Look at golf, it is crazy how much farther the ball flies today, imagine if Tiger or any of today's golfers had to play with the same equipment that Hogan or even Nicklaus had to use.

bottom line, I think it is ludicrous to try to proclaim one person as the GOAT, it must be for bragging. I think the best fans of sports realize there are many athletes who qualify or could be considered one of the GOAT, hundreds really, and that is what makes sports so rich and fun to watch and appreciate!

And that is what the “other” option would be for. You make some good points. Makes for a good debate on the topic!

 

[TheChamps990411]

With Tom Brady’s recent retirement, I’ve seen this question come up several times in the media. Is Tom Brady the GOAT of all GOATs at their respective sport? I’ve put several other athletes I feel deserve to be mentioned as options, I probably missed a few- but I’m curious to see what the BY thinks. I also couldn’t pick among the 3 tennis greats so I included all of them.

There is only one GOAT. Muhammed Ali. End of story. That being said if you only take into account achievemnt in sport its Brady. I grew up a Bulls fan and was their to see Jordans run and it was incredible but Brady did something that should not be possible in his sport. He won two superbowls 20 years apart. That is absolutely insane!!! 10 Superbowls and 7 titles. Its not even debatable.

 

[freescooter]

I would take Ted Williams. Besides being a better baseball player he was a better pilot.

One could absolutely make a case for Teddy Ballgame. Probably the greatest hitter of all time. Last to hit .400, and played the 2nd game of a doubleheader with his average at .3999 which would have been rounded to .400 and brought it up to .406. My guess is nobody would do that today. Hit 521 home runs, and missed prime years to go into the Navy in both World War II and Korea where he saw active duty and was shot down. While those obviously aren’t part of his baseball records, they are significant And actually hurt him In his baseball career.

Michael Jordan wasn’t even the best player in his sport for a chunk of his career.

I might also add Roger Banister. First man to break the 4 minute mile, on a cinder track on a cold rainy day. Wasn’t a professional, but a medical student.

or Bobby Jones. Only man to win 4 majors in a single year. He was also an amateur. Won multiple US and British Opens AND US Amateurs when that was considered a major. 13 Majors in 7 years. And played with wooden shafts!

And I think a case could be made for Bill Russell…2 NCAA titles, Olympic gold, 11 NBA championships including 2. As a player-coach. Think of that. And he redefined the center position in his career. Pre-Russell it was not a highly athletic position.

 

[8893]

Jim Thorpe

 

[Scoe]

Thurman was a much better hitter/catcher than Varitek.

Posada>Varitek, ok I’ll put Varitek ahead of Sanchez.

 

[SCNCHuskie]

So he trumps everyone else in every sport all time because he is the fastest guy (right now) to run a straight line for a very short distance.

Which is why I would not include swimmers or track and field people because as nutrition, training, technology, training techniques, etc. gets better and better athletes will be bigger, stronger and faster than they ever were before. You cannot compare a track and field person today with people in other eras strictly based on speed. With these sports you would have to look at overall domination in the field at that time. Jim Thorpe was a great athlete of his day, but I’m willing to bet his feats would not be much better than what high school athletes are doing today. Chin Diesl mentioned that running hasn’t changed in a millennia, but that is completely and totally untrue for the reasons outlined above.

 

[Kajik]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

 

[tzznandrew]

Jordan retired (again) at 40 and was definitely not remotely the same player he was in his prime. There is a basketball player whose sustained dominance after 20 years is absolutely freakish and maybe unprecedented but I don't expect him to get much traction here.

Jordan's averages at 40 were insane for a 40 year old. He wasn't remotely the same as he was in his prime, but some of that is a knee injury he had at 39. He worked himself into shape and was getting MVP buzz until that moment.

 

[Chin Diesel]

One could absolutely make a case for Teddy Ballgame. Probably the greatest hitter of all time. Last to hit .400, and played the 2nd game of a doubleheader with his average at .3999 which would have been rounded to .400 and brought it up to .406. My guess is nobody would do that today. Hit 521 home runs, and missed prime years to go into the Navy in both World War II and Korea where he saw active duty and was shot down. While those obviously aren’t part of his baseball records, they are significant And actually hurt him In his baseball career.

Michael Jordan wasn’t even the best player in his sport for a chunk of his career.

I might also add Roger Banister. First man to break the 4 minute mile, on a cinder track on a cold rainy day. Wasn’t a professional, but a medical student.

or Bobby Jones. Only man to win 4 majors in a single year. He was also an amateur. Won multiple US and British Opens AND US Amateurs when that was considered a major. 13 Majors in 7 years. And played with wooden shafts!

And I think a case could be made for Bill Russell…2 NCAA titles, Olympic gold, 11 NBA championships including 2. As a player-coach. Think of that. And he redefined the center position in his career. Pre-Russell it was not a highly athletic position.

While Ted Williams served in the Department of the Navy, he was most definitely a United States Marine Corps pilot.
Dept of Navy is broken down to Navy Dept and USMC.

 

[Hoophound]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

Lol. I only got this joke due to the neighborhood pervert kid talking about her all the time in the 80’s.

 

[Stinger92860]

My vote is John Wooden

 

[tzznandrew]

Look you can’t even say his name lmao the ire that results

He really is like Voldemort to many people

And no it’s not “maybe” unprecedented

LeBron is great. He has his irrational critics. He also has his irrational cape-wearers. It's not unreasonable to consider him the GOAT.

It's also not unreasonable to find flaws in his performances at time and instead consider him among the handful of greats out there. I think his Top 5—either 2 or 3, but in the same conversation with MJ and Kareem.

 

[Deepster]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

Reminds me of the old GoUconn days….

 

[Fishy]

Toss out the team guys. Toss out the male tennis players because it’s impossible to decide which is even the best male tennis player. Toss out Biles because the last Olympics happened the way they happened.

So, Bolt, Woods, Phelps, Williams and Ali. Dropped Bolt because he’s certainly an all time great, you can make an argument for Carl Lewis as the best track and field athlete - he was a tremendous sprinter…and also a long jumper.

Of the remaining four, I would go 1) Williams, 2) Woods, 3) Ali, 4) Phelps…

 

[Kajik]

Seka was actually native American.After her career she made her way back to her reservation.At the moment she is actively pursuing buffalo during their annual migration.You see native Americans like seka need the hides and sinew to make clothes and thread to make it through the winter.Seka's role will be to smoke and dry the protein rich meat to sustain her tribe through the challenging winter on the great plains,which is why I nominate seka as the greatest native American pole vaulter of all time.

 

[Doginaus]

The "King" of "The King and His court" softball pitcher, Eddie Feigner. Some of his accomplishments: 9,743 victories, 141,517 strikeouts, 930 no-hitters and 238 perfect games. pretty hard to top those numbers.

 

[storrsroars]

Toss out the team guys. Toss out the male tennis players because it’s impossible to decide which is even the best male tennis player. Toss out Biles because the last Olympics happened the way they happened.

So, Bolt, Woods, Phelps, Williams and Ali. Dropped Bolt because he’s certainly an all time great, you can make an argument for Carl Lewis as the best track and field athlete - he was a tremendous sprinter…and also a long jumper.

Of the remaining four, I would go 1) Williams, 2) Woods, 3) Ali, 4) Phelps…

I think you can make the same argument for Nicklaus as you did with Lewis. And early in his career, Jack was winning championships as a fatty. Imagine if he were in shape?

I think Graf had better competition than Serena, so while I might concede GOAT in women's tennis, I can't concede GOAT of GOATs.

Ali... tough one. I loved the guy, and If he didn't miss those five years, he might've been able to take Frazier earlier in his career, and possibly retired earlier and undefeated. He had to fight for money late in his career which damaged his record. And Marciano did retire undefeated.

Phelps - I just have a hard time giving a GOAT of GOATs to a swimmer.

So here's my pick: Caitlyn Jenner. Won the Olympic decathlon as a woman. Never been done before or since.

 

[freescooter]

While Ted Williams served in the Department of the Navy, he was most definitely a United States Marine Corps pilot.
Dept of Navy is broken down to Navy Dept and USMC.

You’re right. He was a Marine pilot, not Navy.

 

[huskyfan224]

Tiger or MJ, but gotta go with Tiger. Nobody was as dominant as Tiger in their given sport, what he did will never be touched.

There was a time when the difference between him and the number 2 ranked player in the world rankings was compared to the number 2 ranked player in the world to a guy ranked 1000. That’s how much better he was than everyone else. Lol

There are so many other countless stats that just don’t even make sense that he did

 

[temery]

Gotta separate individual vs team sports.

As far as individuals are concerned - No athlete has been as dominant as Serena Williams. I'm not a fan, especially with her whining about gender bias in rules violations, and steroid issues. But there has been no one as dominant, apples to apples, as Serena Williams.