OT: GOAT of all GOATs

[SCNCHuskie]

So he trumps everyone else in every sport all time because he is the fastest guy (right now) to run a straight line for a very short distance.

Which is why I would not include swimmers or track and field people because as nutrition, training, technology, training techniques, etc. gets better and better athletes will be bigger, stronger and faster than they ever were before. You cannot compare a track and field person today with people in other eras strictly based on speed. With these sports you would have to look at overall domination in the field at that time. Jim Thorpe was a great athlete of his day, but I’m willing to bet his feats would not be much better than what high school athletes are doing today. Chin Diesl mentioned that running hasn’t changed in a millennia, but that is completely and totally untrue for the reasons outlined above.

 

[Kajik]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

 

[tzznandrew]

Jordan retired (again) at 40 and was definitely not remotely the same player he was in his prime. There is a basketball player whose sustained dominance after 20 years is absolutely freakish and maybe unprecedented but I don't expect him to get much traction here.

Jordan's averages at 40 were insane for a 40 year old. He wasn't remotely the same as he was in his prime, but some of that is a knee injury he had at 39. He worked himself into shape and was getting MVP buzz until that moment.

 

[Chin Diesel]

One could absolutely make a case for Teddy Ballgame. Probably the greatest hitter of all time. Last to hit .400, and played the 2nd game of a doubleheader with his average at .3999 which would have been rounded to .400 and brought it up to .406. My guess is nobody would do that today. Hit 521 home runs, and missed prime years to go into the Navy in both World War II and Korea where he saw active duty and was shot down. While those obviously aren’t part of his baseball records, they are significant And actually hurt him In his baseball career.

Michael Jordan wasn’t even the best player in his sport for a chunk of his career.

I might also add Roger Banister. First man to break the 4 minute mile, on a cinder track on a cold rainy day. Wasn’t a professional, but a medical student.

or Bobby Jones. Only man to win 4 majors in a single year. He was also an amateur. Won multiple US and British Opens AND US Amateurs when that was considered a major. 13 Majors in 7 years. And played with wooden shafts!

And I think a case could be made for Bill Russell…2 NCAA titles, Olympic gold, 11 NBA championships including 2. As a player-coach. Think of that. And he redefined the center position in his career. Pre-Russell it was not a highly athletic position.

While Ted Williams served in the Department of the Navy, he was most definitely a United States Marine Corps pilot.
Dept of Navy is broken down to Navy Dept and USMC.

 

[Hoophound]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

Lol. I only got this joke due to the neighborhood pervert kid talking about her all the time in the 80’s.

 

[Stinger92860]

My vote is John Wooden

 

[tzznandrew]

Look you can’t even say his name lmao the ire that results

He really is like Voldemort to many people

And no it’s not “maybe” unprecedented

LeBron is great. He has his irrational critics. He also has his irrational cape-wearers. It's not unreasonable to consider him the GOAT.

It's also not unreasonable to find flaws in his performances at time and instead consider him among the handful of greats out there. I think his Top 5—either 2 or 3, but in the same conversation with MJ and Kareem.

 

[Deepster]

Seka.The greatest pole vaulter of all time

Reminds me of the old GoUconn days….

 

[Fishy]

Toss out the team guys. Toss out the male tennis players because it’s impossible to decide which is even the best male tennis player. Toss out Biles because the last Olympics happened the way they happened.

So, Bolt, Woods, Phelps, Williams and Ali. Dropped Bolt because he’s certainly an all time great, you can make an argument for Carl Lewis as the best track and field athlete - he was a tremendous sprinter…and also a long jumper.

Of the remaining four, I would go 1) Williams, 2) Woods, 3) Ali, 4) Phelps…

 

[Kajik]

Seka was actually native American.After her career she made her way back to her reservation.At the moment she is actively pursuing buffalo during their annual migration.You see native Americans like seka need the hides and sinew to make clothes and thread to make it through the winter.Seka's role will be to smoke and dry the protein rich meat to sustain her tribe through the challenging winter on the great plains,which is why I nominate seka as the greatest native American pole vaulter of all time.

 

[Doginaus]

The "King" of "The King and His court" softball pitcher, Eddie Feigner. Some of his accomplishments: 9,743 victories, 141,517 strikeouts, 930 no-hitters and 238 perfect games. pretty hard to top those numbers.

 

[storrsroars]

Toss out the team guys. Toss out the male tennis players because it’s impossible to decide which is even the best male tennis player. Toss out Biles because the last Olympics happened the way they happened.

So, Bolt, Woods, Phelps, Williams and Ali. Dropped Bolt because he’s certainly an all time great, you can make an argument for Carl Lewis as the best track and field athlete - he was a tremendous sprinter…and also a long jumper.

Of the remaining four, I would go 1) Williams, 2) Woods, 3) Ali, 4) Phelps…

I think you can make the same argument for Nicklaus as you did with Lewis. And early in his career, Jack was winning championships as a fatty. Imagine if he were in shape?

I think Graf had better competition than Serena, so while I might concede GOAT in women's tennis, I can't concede GOAT of GOATs.

Ali... tough one. I loved the guy, and If he didn't miss those five years, he might've been able to take Frazier earlier in his career, and possibly retired earlier and undefeated. He had to fight for money late in his career which damaged his record. And Marciano did retire undefeated.

Phelps - I just have a hard time giving a GOAT of GOATs to a swimmer.

So here's my pick: Caitlyn Jenner. Won the Olympic decathlon as a woman. Never been done before or since.

 

[freescooter]

While Ted Williams served in the Department of the Navy, he was most definitely a United States Marine Corps pilot.
Dept of Navy is broken down to Navy Dept and USMC.

You’re right. He was a Marine pilot, not Navy.

 

[huskyfan224]

Tiger or MJ, but gotta go with Tiger. Nobody was as dominant as Tiger in their given sport, what he did will never be touched.

There was a time when the difference between him and the number 2 ranked player in the world rankings was compared to the number 2 ranked player in the world to a guy ranked 1000. That’s how much better he was than everyone else. Lol

There are so many other countless stats that just don’t even make sense that he did

 

[temery]

Gotta separate individual vs team sports.

As far as individuals are concerned - No athlete has been as dominant as Serena Williams. I'm not a fan, especially with her whining about gender bias in rules violations, and steroid issues. But there has been no one as dominant, apples to apples, as Serena Williams.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Tiger or MJ, but gotta go with Tiger. Nobody was as dominant as Tiger in their given sport, what he did will never be touched.

There was a time when the difference between him and the number 2 ranked player in the world rankings was compared to the number 2 ranked player in the world to a guy ranked 1000. That’s how much better he was than everyone else. Lol

There are so many other countless stats that just don’t even make sense that he did

The dilemma with Tiger v. Jack for dominance is Jack took out Arnie, Player, Trevino, Watson and several second-tier hall of fame golfers in their prime (Miller, Floyd and a few others). Tiger never had that level of talent chasing him. Jack's quantity of second place finishes to go with his wins is an incredible accomplishment as well. That said I think peak Tiger from age 25-35 is probably a bit better than peak Jack. Of course Jack had to hit marshmallows using a metal shaft and wooden drivers.

For team sports put me in team MJ and Gretzky. As @superjohn mentioned, many of us getting old enough and we are far enough from MJ's prime where we are forgetting how dominant he was as a player.

Individual sports for me would come down to Tiger, Jack, Serena, Bolt or Phelps for their dominance over extended periods of time. I've already stated why I'm in the Bolt camp.

 

[huskyfan224]

The dilemma with Tiger v. Jack for dominance is Jack took out Arnie, Player, Trevino, Watson and several second-tier hall of fame golfers in their prime (Miller, Floyd and a few others). Tiger never had that level of talent chasing him. Jack's quantity of second place finishes to go with his wins is an incredible accomplishment as well. That said I think peak Tiger from age 25-35 is probably a bit better than peak Jack. Of course Jack had to hit marshmallows using a metal shaft and wooden drivers.

For team sports put me in team MJ and Gretzky. As @superjohn mentioned, many of us getting old enough and we are far enough from MJ's prime where we are forgetting how dominant he was as a player.

Individual sports for me would come down to Tiger, Jack, Serena, Bolt or Phelps for their dominance over extended periods of time. I've already stated why I'm in the Bolt camp.

Tiger Turns 44: Woods' 44 Greatest Statistics - 15th Club

Tiger Woods turns 44 years old on December 30. This is the first birthday for Woods as the reigning Masters champion since…

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I love Jack, but the game/technology changed quite a bit and Tiger was a reason why. If Jack had that he would most certainly be in contention and get his fair share of wins and be a factor, but Tiger is just more talented. TIger may not have had some of the bigger names like you mentioned, but the depth and having anyone win on a given week was more prominent 20 ish years ago than it was back in the 60s

 

[Chin Diesel]

Tiger Turns 44: Woods' 44 Greatest Statistics - 15th Club

Tiger Woods turns 44 years old on December 30. This is the first birthday for Woods as the reigning Masters champion since…

www.15thclub.com

I love Jack, but the game/technology changed quite a bit and Tiger was a reason why. If Jack had that he would most certainly be in contention and get his fair share of wins and be a factor, but Tiger is just more talented. TIger may not have had some of the bigger names like you mentioned, but the depth and having anyone win on a given week was more prominent 20 ish years ago than it was back in the 60s

There were metal woods, square grooves for wedges and plenty of technology changes between Jack and Tiger. I think Tiger's bigger contribution was fitness and swing speed.

All this goes back to my point about Bolt being the best. Carl Lewis may have won more medals because he competed in more events but Bolt is objectively a faster runner in a sport where the skill is speed.

 

[Kolumbo]

I think the great running backs and receivers are far better football players and athletes than quarterbacks so I'm going with the beast. You know.

Bo.

 

[Kolumbo]

That is why Bolt is the answer.

I love Bolt but the issue I have is he is more a freak of nature than a great athlete. 6'5" guys don't become track sprinters but he has the ability even with his height to get up to speed very quickly and with his stride it's game over. He does one thing better than anyone else but he can't be considered greater than athletes doing things which require far more skill. He should have at least learned to catch a football like Renaldo Nehemiah.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I love Bolt but the issue I have is he is more a freak of nature than a great athlete. 6'5" guys don't become track sprinters but he has the ability even with his height to get up to speed very quickly and with his stride it's game over. He does one thing better than anyone else but he can't be considered greater than athletes doing things which require far more skill. He should have at least learned to catch a football like Renaldo Nehemiah.

Fortunately GOAT doesn't mean greatest athlete of all-time. The GOAT is the greatest player in their field. GOAT of GOATs starts looking at how to compare dominance.

You have people on this thread who have voted for Ruth or Ali. No one thinks they were great athletes.

 

[Chasm64]

Wilt Chamberlain, Wayne Gretzky, Jim Thorpe, Michael Jordan, Mickey Mantle 1-5
Honorable mention: Babe Zaharias, Bo Jackson, Bobby Orr, Tom Brady, Lawrence Taylor

 

[Deadrody]

With Tom Brady’s recent retirement, I’ve seen this question come up several times in the media. Is Tom Brady the GOAT of all GOATs at their respective sport? I’ve put several other athletes I feel deserve to be mentioned as options, I probably missed a few- but I’m curious to see what the BY thinks. I also couldn’t pick among the 3 tennis greats so I included all of them.

Haven't read through the whole thing, but IMO, what holds MJ back from being better than Brady is letting his world class narcissism get between him and excellence. Both the ridiculous flirtation with baseball and the first temporary retirement detract from him being as good as he could have been. Tom Brady is the exact opposite. Singular focus on one and only one goal - winning.

Not to mention that Brady is the undisputed greatest player in all of NFL history. While I definitely put MJ at the top of the list in the NBA, you can't argue that other guys haven't had comparable team success, including Bill Russell and Lebron.

 

[Deadrody]

And I'll just leave this here... For all those complaining that a QB only plays half the game, there are 11 guys on offense, 11 on defense, etc... This is a guy commenting on a post at a Cowboys blog about their lack of success relative to the number of pro-bowl players on the team (Cowboys have 4 playoff wins - total - in the last 25 years, and 139 pro bowl appearances over that time)

In Tom Brady's six Super Bowl wins with the Patriots, the Patriots were ranked 6th, 12th, 4th, 4th, 3rd, and 4th in points scored. Aside from Tom Brady, do you know how many "Pro Bowl players" there were on the offensive side of the ball during those 6 seasons? The answer to that would be: 3. Troy Brown in 2001. None in 2003. Corey Dillon in 2004. Rob Gronkowski in 2014. None in 2016. None in 2018.

 

[Kolumbo]

Fortunately GOAT doesn't mean greatest athlete of all-time. The GOAT is the greatest player in their field. GOAT of GOATs starts looking at how to compare dominance.

You have people on this thread who have voted for Ruth or Ali. No one thinks they were great athletes.

Both Ali and Babe were tremendous athletes, no question. Baseball of all sports arguably requires the most skill. And Bolt wasn't a player. He was a runner. A freakish runner. I'd say Carl Lewis was a better, more successful track athlete.

Allison Stokke

In support of MJ, he did it all and far better than everyone else. Offense, defense, he literally willed his team to wins. He would have won on any team. I remember they were about to lose to the Jazz and he still found a way to strip the ball from Malone and then hit the winning basket.

Football players play half the game, at a snails pace, perhaps 15 minutes of actual action. brady owes at least 60% credit to the defense and special teams for his wins.

 

[superjohn]

Haven't read through the whole thing, but IMO, what holds MJ back from being better than Brady is letting his world class narcissism get between him and excellence. Both the ridiculous flirtation with baseball and the first temporary retirement detract from him being as good as he could have been. Tom Brady is the exact opposite. Singular focus on one and only one goal - winning.

Not to mention that Brady is the undisputed greatest player in all of NFL history. While I definitely put MJ at the top of the list in the NBA, you can't argue that other guys haven't had comparable team success, including Bill Russell and Lebron.

Narcissism? His dad who was his best friend was brutally murdered. He took 2 years off in the absolute prime of his career right after three peating to honor his dad's love of baseball and to take a break from the insanity of everything. He was the most popular person in the world and again his dad was just brutally murdered. No other athlete was under the microscope like him, the guy couldn't ever leave his hotel room without being mobbed. He wasn't chasing some ghost for titles, if he was he would probably have 10 of them. Holding it against him for retiring twice in his prime, especially after the murder of his father is a pretty strange take.

You can absolutely make a case for other football players being better than Brady and other basketball players being better than Jordan.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Both Ali and Babe were tremendous athletes, no question. Baseball of all sports arguably requires the most skill. And Bolt wasn't a player. He was a runner. A freakish runner. I'd say Carl Lewis was a better, more successful track athlete.

Allison Stokke

In support of MJ, he did it all and far better than everyone else. Offense, defense, he literally willed his team to wins. He would have won on any team. I remember they were about to lose to the Jazz and he still found a way to strip the ball from Malone and then hit the winning basket.

Football players play half the game, at a snails pace, perhaps 15 minutes of actual action. brady owes at least 60% credit to the defense and special teams for his wins.

Your confusing skill and athleticism. It's possible to have great skill without being a great athlete.

Which is the exact point I was responding to for this debate. GOAT doesn't mean greatest athlete; it is the person who has performed better than anyone else in their sport.

And no, Ali or Ruth weren't great athletes.

 

[Deepster]

Your confusing skill and athleticism. It's possible to have great skill without being a great athlete.

Which is the exact point I was responding to for this debate. GOAT doesn't mean greatest athlete; it is the person who has performed better than anyone else in their sport.

And no, Ali or Ruth weren't great athletes.

To be Ali's size and weight and to move with that footwork and have the power he did to knock out who he did? Laughable you don't think he's a great athlete.

 

[Kolumbo]

Your confusing skill and athleticism. It's possible to have great skill without being a great athlete.

Which is the exact point I was responding to for this debate. GOAT doesn't mean greatest athlete; it is the person who has performed better than anyone else in their sport.

And no, Ali or Ruth weren't great athletes.

No, I am not. GOATs need great skill and great athleticism. I don't particularly think running fast takes a great deal of skill. You have to master getting out of the blocks but that's about it, and you might even get lucky timing the gun perfectly. The best sprinter of all time simply doesn't belong in the conversation of all time overall GOATs. Your game literally lasts 10 seconds. That doesn't compare to anything, especially something like multiple 5-hour tennis matches during numerous tournaments.

Golf - Tiger may be very athletic and exceptionally skilled but we know there were some good golfers who were not particularly athletic. I remember a commentary following the Craig Stadler incident, something to the effect, a game where a towel is considered an aid is not a sport, and a player who needs to kneel on a towel is not an athlete. A game where there isn't any running at all is not GOAT worthy.

I have no idea how anyone would not consider Ali and Ruth great athletes. That's just wrong on every level.

 

[HuskylnSC]

The GOAT of GOATS isn't even on your list. The G of G won 7 NFL championships in 10 years. He started the championship game all 10 years in the league. He has the highest winning percentage of any starting quarterback at 81%. He holds the record for career yards per pass as 8.9. Until recently he held the record for most running touchdowns by a quarterback at 44. During his career he has led the league in every statistical category. He was an NFL head coach and his college coaching career was in Connecticut.