Game of Thrones Season 8

[HuskyHawk]

This is one of those things where they had the idea for the shot conceived without the writing being done and/or thinking it through.

The scene itself was really cool. Bird's eye view of the charge, lights slowly getting extinguished, unearthly screams. The effect chilling. Which is great.

Only problem was it being the dumbest tactic in the history of dumb tactics.

Jon Snow says "hold my beer" with his charge at the Battle of the Bastards.

Ultimately, this was poorly designed, but... Jon told them they can't win, it was just about luring the Night King to Bran and taking him out. Which they did. The failure was inadequately defending Bran. Or understanding that they needed an invisible assassin waiting there, and telling Arya that.

The God of Light played a pretty significant role here. The fire swords and lighting the trench, etc. But most importantly, bringing Beric back from the dead several times so he could be there to rouse the Hound and get Arya to safety and Melisandre's message. The Night King's army went down in one large battle, but there was divine interference.

 

[coachcap]

The head scratcher for me on last night's episode: Mellisandre majestically rides in at the beginning unaccompanied by her fellow members of the "red witch monastery". When last seen, I was under the impression that she left to conscript her cohorts of the "Lord of Light" to participate in this battle. Instead, her whole purpose is to announce to Jorah that she will be dead by morning, light up Dothraki swords, remind Arya that there will be a day to die, just "NOT today!", then calmly walk out of Winterfell, disrobe & wither away? Ultra lame.
By my count, the remnants of the Army of the North have 3 units of reinforcement left immediately to them: said "Red Witch monastics, Theon's sister & her boats, & that traitorous bannerman & his contingent that said good luck against the Night King, but we'll sit this one out.
It's not much, but it's something. (But I don't give these screen writers credit to even think beyond their noses.)

 

[Excalibur]

The head scratcher for me on last night's episode: Mellisandre majestically rides in at the beginning unaccompanied by her fellow members of the "red witch monastery". When last seen, I was under the impression that she left to conscript her cohorts of the "Lord of Light" to participate in this battle. Instead, her whole purpose is to announce to Jorah that she will be dead by morning, light up Dothraki swords, remind Arya that there will be a day to die, just "NOT today!", then calmly walk out of Winterfell, disrobe & wither away? Ultra lame.
By my count, the remnants of the Army of the North have 3 units of reinforcement left immediately to them: said "Red Witch monastics, Theon's sister & her boats, & that traitorous bannerman & his contingent that said good luck against the Night King, but we'll sit this one out.
It's not much, but it's something. (But I don't give these screen writers credit to even think beyond their noses.)

I don't recall any indication that Melisandre was bringing anyone back. The conversation with Arya was more than just repeating Syrio Forel's words -- she basically told Arya what she meant when she last saw her 5 years prior; that she was going to kill the night king and, by extension, his army.

 

[Deepster]

On one hand, it's pretty cool that no one predicted how the Night King would fall. Arya training as an "assassin" this entire time and maybe training for this assassination. The trail of that dagger from the 2nd episode through last night with Bran recently telling her she'd need it was entertaining.

On the other hand, seeing the invincible Night King die at the hands of a young girl is a little anticlimactic in a show with huge battles and interpersonal confrontation.

And, looking ahead, I worry they're teeing up Jon Snow on the Iron Throne at the end and I definitely don't think I want that happy an ending.

 

[Horatio]

Here's some basics for the noobz.

One Dragon on the walls.
One Dragon flying after the Knight king with focus being protecting the God's wood. Can't be there too early.
Love Theon and his pluck, but gimme Jorah or somebody like that guarding Bran
(Melisandre really has to show up earlier quite frankly and actually participate in the plan - but even so, clue in Arya in up front that she's gotta get it done)
Arya hides in God's Wood tree like a proper assassin would.

If you have the time, 6 or so similar trenches surrounding. the battle field. Allow the undead army to get most of the way across (it will be spread out). Use the dragon to light up all six trenches. So now the undead army is broken into 'slices'. Each slice can be dealt with. Dragon cleans up the farthest slices. Trebuchet's fire into the medium range slices. Fire burning arrows into the nearest slices. The Dothraki with their flaming swords are stationed around the back/sides of Winterfell. Once this is all going down, they ride around the back and pick off the undead horde from behind, including attacking the White Walkers.

Once they finally break through to the fortress, you have the walls slathered with pitch. Dragon lights the outside walls on fire while the undead are climbing up. Entire top of the castle lined with Dragon glass. More fire on the ramparts maybe.

And so on and so forth. You are gonna take heavy losses, but you sure as snow are gonna give yourself more time.

So basically, you wanted Calhoun to coach the Living/ Team Winterfell.

 

[ZooCougar]

1. What happened to Jon’s Dragon?

2. What sort of plot armor will allow Team Dany to continue on against Cersei? There can’t be much left of that Army.

 

[Fishy]

I will never stop marveling how everyone turns into Sun Tzu when reviewing a television show because Jon Snow didn't deploy his troops the way Napolean would have.

Besides, the worst military mind in the history of television is the night king. He has 10,000 years to figure out how to kill a crippled kid, his army grows exponentially after every battle and he has the ability to conjure a winter storm that would kill every possible source of food for his enemy.

But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

That was a pretty entertaining 90-minutes of television.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.

 

[businesslawyer]

The Dothraki died fighting the way they’ve fought the whole series. They charge and destroy. There’s no strategy to it and no general was gonna change their traditional way of battle. John Snow wasn’t gonna meet with them and re-train them to fight differently.
Lol. Cmon man

My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.

 

[businesslawyer]

But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.

The two most important statements. No explanation why the Night King didn't wait a few more minutes for everyone to be killed. And I had real trouble telling which characters were in trouble half the time from the lighting (or lack thereof).

 

[John]

Hot tip: if you don't land an A-10 on an active battlefield for no good reason, then you sure-as-hell don't land a dragon.

 

[Rico444]

Who is the Knight King?

 

[Tommyboy]

 

[goskis2018]

My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.

Well to be fair we don't have any idea how much damage the Dothraki did. A few thousand cavalryman charging in the dark at an army of 100,000 was always going to get wiped out eventually. They charged in got surrounded by a massive swarm of zombies and got wiped out. Its different when defending a castle.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I will never stop marveling how everyone turns into Sun Tzu when reviewing a television show because Jon Snow didn't deploy his troops the way Napolean would have.

Besides, the worst military mind in the history of television is the night king. He has 10,000 years to figure out how to kill a crippled kid, his army grows exponentially after every battle and he has the ability to conjure a winter storm that would kill every possible source of food for his enemy.

But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

That was a pretty entertaining 90-minutes of television.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.

Definitelty too dark. So dark that it had artifacts all over in the darker portions of the screen because the cameras had insufficient light. That was really noticeable in 4k.

 

[intlzncster]

Definitelty too dark. So dark that it had artifacts all over in the darker portions of the screen because the cameras had insufficient light. That was really noticeable in 4k.

Yeah, I was disappointed in that. At one point I thought I was looking at an Atari screen.

 

[intlzncster]

Who is the Knight King?

Damn it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well to be fair we don't have any idea how much damage the Dothraki did. A few thousand cavalryman charging in the dark at an army of 100,000 was always going to get wiped out eventually. They charged in got surrounded by a massive swarm of zombies and got wiped out. Its different when defending a castle.

Fishy's Sun Tzu comment aside, the humans had a fortification, two dragons, some flaming swords and dragon glass, and the other side had overwhelming numbers and the ability to turn dead humans (and horses) into soldiers for them. Why in the world would you engage them early, away from your defenses? The only thing I can think of is that the Dothraki have something the Unsullied no longer have, and that caused them to be stupid and arrogant.

It was like watching a frat boy jump from a deck into a swimming pool and come up just short.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

I was genuinely surprised at how the Night King died; I thought arya was dead as soon as she made her leap. Where did she leap from? Seems like she came out of nowhere, but hopefully that'll get answered next week. Still have so many questions about the Night King and White Walkers. I think they may be holding back some of the hisotry for the prequel that's supposed to start next year i think.

 

[KembaStepback]

As far as predictions go, Im thinking Jaime will be the one to kill Cersei.

A lot of people died, but no one really major except for Theon. What kind of numbers do they have left? Cersei SHOULD stomp them (aside from the dragon or 2).

 

[Fishy]

My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.

A cavalry charge in the dark into a overwhelming mass of previously killed warriors probably ends the way it did. A simple infantry square used to mangle cavalry charges 200 years ago, so I’m guessing it would not work against five zillion dead people.

Logically, and I’m using the word loosely, last night really had to end the way it did.

If I have an army of 10 dead people and you have an army of 10 live people, I’m going to win and win quickly.

You have to kill my dead soldiers in one of two particular ways. Both are really inconvenient. I can kill your soldiers in any fashion I would like. If I kill one of yours, the game is now 11 to 9. Two, and it becomes 12-8.

My soldiers never get tired. They don’t care about the weather or the time of day. They don’t need food, water, clothes, shoes, tents, sleep or any sort of provision whatsoever. Your soldiers need all of those things every few hours.

And given the numbers game above, you’re going to lose in hours. I don’t need replacements or reserves - I make those every time I kill one of yours. You need both.

Basically, the only way to end that battle is how it did last night - with a home run. If not for that, the show’s pretty much over.

Either that, or Jon Snow learns that the night king is actually his father and then after some soul searching, they form an unlikely alliance and defeat Cersei. And then we can have some unsatisfying prequels in a few years.

 

[Lefty2one]

IMO the show is not great anymore and hasn't been for at least the past season and a half at least. Just a collection of dumb plans failing and important characters getting stuck in the same impossible situation only to be saved at the last second last night. The Night King deserved to best these dummies. The hype of the episode was to great to contend with and I am slightly underwhelmed. Not bad by any stretch but not amazing.

It's been said by a lot of folks and it's true that the show has noticeably gone downhill since it surpassed the books. It's felt like normal Hollywood action BS instead of the harsh, pragmatic style of GRRM. The fan-service and quippy one-liners need to die in a fire.


All in all, last night's episode was great. Kudos to the behind-the-scenes folks for making an hour-long battle sequence that never got boring and kept the tension high throughout. It wasn't too dark on my TV, a nine-year-old Panasonic plasma. The music was outstanding as was 99% of the CGI. I was shocked we didn't get more deaths of important characters.

As awesome as Arya is, the ending was ridiculous. Out of all the cool options they had--Bran warging or Arya's abilities as a Faceless Man--we get her magically leaping out of the nighttime sky, somehow undetected by the 50 White Walkers and wights standing in a circle. Arya either lept 75 feet from outside the circle or the WW are in fact blind. The deus ex machina the last two seasons has gotten annoying.

Like everyone else, I'd love to know what Bran was doing while warging that entire time. We saw him use the crows to attract the Night King to himself, then what? I hope we get an answer next week.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If Bran can see everything, then he must have known his sister was hiding in a tree or wherever she was, about to off the Night King. Yet he let Theon do the suicide charge at the Night King anyway. The Starks are such scalitoholes.

 

[intlzncster]

Fishy's Sun Tzu comment aside, the humans had a fortification, two dragons, some flaming swords and dragon glass, and the other side had overwhelming numbers and the ability to turn dead humans (and horses) into soldiers for them. Why in the world would you engage them early, away from your defenses? The only thing I can think of is that the Dothraki have something the Unsullied no longer have, and that caused them to be stupid and arrogant.

It was like watching a frat boy jump from a deck into a swimming pool and come up just short.

Thing is, you don't need to be Sun Tzu. There's light years between Napoleon and what Jon Snow was peddling.

It's fashionable to rip the Night King's strategy. But really, the bad guys have to be stupid or the good guys would never win. Maybe he was more automaton than thinker.

You knew there'd be a deus-ex-machina moment or two because there's no other way for it all to go down.

It was competition between who could be dumber and the Night King lost.

All that said, I enjoyed it.

 

[Lefty2one]

Basically, the only way to end that battle is how it did last night - with a home run. If not for that, the show’s pretty much over.

This is what I realized about two-thirds of the way into the episode, after the wights had infiltrated the crypts. Things had gotten too bleak, too hopeless. The only way out at that point was to kill the Night King.

I had read some theories that the Night King storyline would be wrapped up last night and I thought that was unlikely given we still have three more episodes, but it became apparent that it had to end last night. There was no way out besides complete victory.

 

[Horatio]

My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.

I think the flaw in the Dothraki was -

A. Everyone knew that the most effective weapons against the Night King/dead
would have to be made of valerian steel or
Dragon glass. They had neither and got their swords lit on fire at the last minute. They should’ve had new weapons for the situation .
Doomed.

B. The weapons they did have were close proximity weapons and curved. Add that flaw to the fact that the horses were just a
Defenseless Popeyes three piece and a biscuit to the dead army and you get the results we saw, Doom.

The Dothraki most likely rejected all suggestions, advice and modifications.