Game of Thrones Season 8 | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Game of Thrones Season 8

1. What happened to Jon’s Dragon?

2. What sort of plot armor will allow Team Dany to continue on against Cersei? There can’t be much left of that Army.
 
I will never stop marveling how everyone turns into Sun Tzu when reviewing a television show because Jon Snow didn't deploy his troops the way Napolean would have.

Besides, the worst military mind in the history of television is the night king. He has 10,000 years to figure out how to kill a crippled kid, his army grows exponentially after every battle and he has the ability to conjure a winter storm that would kill every possible source of food for his enemy.

But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

That was a pretty entertaining 90-minutes of television.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.
 
Horatio said:
The Dothraki died fighting the way they’ve fought the whole series. They charge and destroy. There’s no strategy to it and no general was gonna change their traditional way of battle. John Snow wasn’t gonna meet with them and re-train them to fight differently.
Lol. Cmon man
Expand ...

My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.
 
Fishy said:
But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.
Expand ...

The two most important statements. No explanation why the Night King didn't wait a few more minutes for everyone to be killed. And I had real trouble telling which characters were in trouble half the time from the lighting (or lack thereof).
 
Hot tip: if you don't land an A-10 on an active battlefield for no good reason, then you sure-as-hell don't land a dragon.
 
.-.
businesslawyer said:
My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.
Expand ...
Well to be fair we don't have any idea how much damage the Dothraki did. A few thousand cavalryman charging in the dark at an army of 100,000 was always going to get wiped out eventually. They charged in got surrounded by a massive swarm of zombies and got wiped out. Its different when defending a castle.
 
Fishy said:
I will never stop marveling how everyone turns into Sun Tzu when reviewing a television show because Jon Snow didn't deploy his troops the way Napolean would have.

Besides, the worst military mind in the history of television is the night king. He has 10,000 years to figure out how to kill a crippled kid, his army grows exponentially after every battle and he has the ability to conjure a winter storm that would kill every possible source of food for his enemy.

But after 10,000 years, he couldn't wait ten more minutes for his army to wipe out every single soul on the other side and he got killed by a middle-school girl.

That was a pretty entertaining 90-minutes of television.

The one thing that I read that I really agree with is that the show was just too dark. Literally, too dark. I turned the lights off, tilted the screen, etc. I get that it was filmed at night, but we still have to be able to see it.
Expand ...

Definitelty too dark. So dark that it had artifacts all over in the darker portions of the screen because the cameras had insufficient light. That was really noticeable in 4k.
 
goskis2018 said:
Well to be fair we don't have any idea how much damage the Dothraki did. A few thousand cavalryman charging in the dark at an army of 100,000 was always going to get wiped out eventually. They charged in got surrounded by a massive swarm of zombies and got wiped out. Its different when defending a castle.
Expand ...

Fishy's Sun Tzu comment aside, the humans had a fortification, two dragons, some flaming swords and dragon glass, and the other side had overwhelming numbers and the ability to turn dead humans (and horses) into soldiers for them. Why in the world would you engage them early, away from your defenses? The only thing I can think of is that the Dothraki have something the Unsullied no longer have, and that caused them to be stupid and arrogant.

It was like watching a frat boy jump from a deck into a swimming pool and come up just short.
 
.-.
I was genuinely surprised at how the Night King died; I thought arya was dead as soon as she made her leap. Where did she leap from? Seems like she came out of nowhere, but hopefully that'll get answered next week. Still have so many questions about the Night King and White Walkers. I think they may be holding back some of the hisotry for the prequel that's supposed to start next year i think.
 
As far as predictions go, Im thinking Jaime will be the one to kill Cersei.

A lot of people died, but no one really major except for Theon. What kind of numbers do they have left? Cersei SHOULD stomp them (aside from the dragon or 2).
 
businesslawyer said:
My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.
Expand ...

A cavalry charge in the dark into a overwhelming mass of previously killed warriors probably ends the way it did. A simple infantry square used to mangle cavalry charges 200 years ago, so I’m guessing it would not work against five zillion dead people.

Logically, and I’m using the word loosely, last night really had to end the way it did.

If I have an army of 10 dead people and you have an army of 10 live people, I’m going to win and win quickly.

You have to kill my dead soldiers in one of two particular ways. Both are really inconvenient. I can kill your soldiers in any fashion I would like. If I kill one of yours, the game is now 11 to 9. Two, and it becomes 12-8.

My soldiers never get tired. They don’t care about the weather or the time of day. They don’t need food, water, clothes, shoes, tents, sleep or any sort of provision whatsoever. Your soldiers need all of those things every few hours.

And given the numbers game above, you’re going to lose in hours. I don’t need replacements or reserves - I make those every time I kill one of yours. You need both.

Basically, the only way to end that battle is how it did last night - with a home run. If not for that, the show’s pretty much over.

Either that, or Jon Snow learns that the night king is actually his father and then after some soul searching, they form an unlikely alliance and defeat Cersei. And then we can have some unsatisfying prequels in a few years.
 
Walker11 said:
IMO the show is not great anymore and hasn't been for at least the past season and a half at least. Just a collection of dumb plans failing and important characters getting stuck in the same impossible situation only to be saved at the last second last night. The Night King deserved to best these dummies. The hype of the episode was to great to contend with and I am slightly underwhelmed. Not bad by any stretch but not amazing.
Expand ...

It's been said by a lot of folks and it's true that the show has noticeably gone downhill since it surpassed the books. It's felt like normal Hollywood action BS instead of the harsh, pragmatic style of GRRM. The fan-service and quippy one-liners need to die in a fire.


All in all, last night's episode was great. Kudos to the behind-the-scenes folks for making an hour-long battle sequence that never got boring and kept the tension high throughout. It wasn't too dark on my TV, a nine-year-old Panasonic plasma. The music was outstanding as was 99% of the CGI. I was shocked we didn't get more deaths of important characters.

As awesome as Arya is, the ending was ridiculous. Out of all the cool options they had--Bran warging or Arya's abilities as a Faceless Man--we get her magically leaping out of the nighttime sky, somehow undetected by the 50 White Walkers and wights standing in a circle. Arya either lept 75 feet from outside the circle or the WW are in fact blind. The deus ex machina the last two seasons has gotten annoying.

Like everyone else, I'd love to know what Bran was doing while warging that entire time. We saw him use the crows to attract the Night King to himself, then what? I hope we get an answer next week.
 
If Bran can see everything, then he must have known his sister was hiding in a tree or wherever she was, about to off the Night King. Yet he let Theon do the suicide charge at the Night King anyway. The Starks are such scalitoholes.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Fishy's Sun Tzu comment aside, the humans had a fortification, two dragons, some flaming swords and dragon glass, and the other side had overwhelming numbers and the ability to turn dead humans (and horses) into soldiers for them. Why in the world would you engage them early, away from your defenses? The only thing I can think of is that the Dothraki have something the Unsullied no longer have, and that caused them to be stupid and arrogant.

It was like watching a frat boy jump from a deck into a swimming pool and come up just short.
Expand ...

Thing is, you don't need to be Sun Tzu. There's light years between Napoleon and what Jon Snow was peddling.

It's fashionable to rip the Night King's strategy. But really, the bad guys have to be stupid or the good guys would never win. Maybe he was more automaton than thinker.

You knew there'd be a deus-ex-machina moment or two because there's no other way for it all to go down.

It was competition between who could be dumber and the Night King lost.

All that said, I enjoyed it.
 
.-.
Fishy said:
Basically, the only way to end that battle is how it did last night - with a home run. If not for that, the show’s pretty much over.
Expand ...

This is what I realized about two-thirds of the way into the episode, after the wights had infiltrated the crypts. Things had gotten too bleak, too hopeless. The only way out at that point was to kill the Night King.

I had read some theories that the Night King storyline would be wrapped up last night and I thought that was unlikely given we still have three more episodes, but it became apparent that it had to end last night. There was no way out besides complete victory.
 
businesslawyer said:
My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.
Expand ...

I think the flaw in the Dothraki was -

A. Everyone knew that the most effective weapons against the Night King/dead
would have to be made of valerian steel or
Dragon glass. They had neither and got their swords lit on fire at the last minute. They should’ve had new weapons for the situation .
Doomed.

B. The weapons they did have were close proximity weapons and curved. Add that flaw to the fact that the horses were just a
Defenseless Popeyes three piece and a biscuit to the dead army and you get the results we saw, Doom.

The Dothraki most likely rejected all suggestions, advice and modifications.
 
Lefty2one said:
It's been said by a lot of folks and it's true that the show has noticeably gone downhill since it surpassed the books. It's felt like normal Hollywood action BS instead of the harsh, pragmatic style of GRRM. The fan-service and quippy one-liners need to die in a fire.
Expand ...

The show had to deal with the fact that the author went in circles for 1200 pages and then thought "#*$#*, how do I tie all of this up?" There have been a few ridiculous moments, but overall they've done an admirable job.

My biggest issue is that the showrunners are suddenly afraid to kill off major characters. There's just no way in hell that one-handed Jamie, fat Sam, and Grey Worm armed only with his spear survive that onslaught.
 
Fishy said:
A cavalry charge in the dark into a overwhelming mass of previously killed warriors probably ends the way it did. A simple infantry square used to mangle cavalry charges 200 years ago, so I’m guessing it would not work against five zillion dead people.

Logically, and I’m using the word loosely, last night really had to end the way it did.

If I have an army of 10 dead people and you have an army of 10 live people, I’m going to win and win quickly.

You have to kill my dead soldiers in one of two particular ways. Both are really inconvenient. I can kill your soldiers in any fashion I would like. If I kill one of yours, the game is now 11 to 9. Two, and it becomes 12-8.

My soldiers never get tired. They don’t care about the weather or the time of day. They don’t need food, water, clothes, shoes, tents, sleep or any sort of provision whatsoever. Your soldiers need all of those things every few hours.

And given the numbers game above, you’re going to lose in hours. I don’t need replacements or reserves - I make those every time I kill one of yours. You need both.

Basically, the only way to end that battle is how it did last night - with a home run. If not for that, the show’s pretty much over.

Either that, or Jon Snow learns that the night king is actually his father and then after some soul searching, they form an unlikely alliance and defeat Cersei. And then we can have some unsatisfying prequels in a few years.
Expand ...

The only thing we know about the Night King is that he is a Children of the Forest weapons program that got out of control. Who knows what the dead and White Walkers are capable of? The lack of motivation for the Night King is the biggest problem with last night's episode.
 
Lefty2one said:
All in all, last night's episode was great. Kudos to the behind-the-scenes folks for making an hour-long battle sequence that never got boring and kept the tension high throughout. It wasn't too dark on my TV, a nine-year-old Panasonic plasma. The music was outstanding as was 99% of the CGI. I was shocked we didn't get more deaths of important characters.
Expand ...
I miss my Samsung plasma. Such deep blacks with it.

You’re spot on with the rest of your commentary. Arya must’ve used her faceless skills to get to him. There was that whoosh that one of the white walkers noticed as it ruffled his hair on the way by, not sure how she got such elevation though.
 
Excalibur said:
The show had to deal with the fact that the author went in circles for 1200 pages and then thought "#*$#*, how do I tie all of this up?" There have been a few ridiculous moments, but overall they've done an admirable job.

My biggest issue is that the showrunners are suddenly afraid to kill off major characters. There's just no way in hell that one-handed Jamie, fat Sam, and Grey Worm armed only with his spear survive that onslaught.
Expand ...
So true. One hand Jamie should’ve died. There’s just no way.
 
.-.
Excalibur said:
My biggest issue is that the showrunners are suddenly afraid to kill off major characters. There's just no way in hell that one-handed Jamie, fat Sam, and Grey Worm armed only with his spear survive that onslaught.
Expand ...

That's the conundrum when you stage the battle to end all battles before the final season is half over. You need characters for story lines.

I'm a little worried they're going to give us too many Hollywood moments, with characters riding off into sunset.

Really, most everyone should be dead at the end of this thing, but I don't see it.
 
businesslawyer said:
My problem with the Dothraki wasn't the military strategy -- it was the result. Think about it. For an hour after their charge failed, we saw individual brave men and women on foot hold off the dead far in excess of their numbers. We saw Arya kill a White Walker. We saw baby Mormont kill a giant.

And yet we're supposed to believe that in a matter of seconds a few thousand mounted Dothraki were massacred by wights? Please. yes, at the end the Dothraki might have lost to overwhelming numbers, but given what we had actually seen in this and other battles the Dothraki would have cut through their lines slicing the dead left and right like the human cavalry killing infantry orgs in the Lord of the Rings movie.

It was beyond unrealistic. Even for a movie about dragons, the dead and dead dragons fighting.

Was also disappointed that there were no real plot developments and no one of any importance died.
Expand ...

Stick to your day job Clausewitz.

Massed infantry beats unsupported cavalry making a blind charge every time.

You don’t need to be Napoleon or Alexander to know this.

The only unbelievable thing was them making the charge to begin with.
 
Excalibur said:
The show had to deal with the fact that the author went in circles for 1200 pages and then thought "#*$#*, how do I tie all of this up?" There have been a few ridiculous moments, but overall they've done an admirable job.

My biggest issue is that the showrunners are suddenly afraid to kill off major characters. There's just no way in hell that one-handed Jamie, fat Sam, and Grey Worm armed only with his spear survive that onslaught.
Expand ...

Admirable, yes, but still the difference is stark, pun not intended.

Too much deus ex machina.
Too many silly action sequences main characters shouldn't survive.
I hate what they've done with Tyrion's character.
The fan service stuff with Lyanna Mormont was annoying.
 
Lefty2one said:
Admirable, yes, but still the difference is stark, pun not intended.

Too much deus ex machina.
Too many silly action sequences main characters shouldn't survive.
I hate what they've done with Tyrion's character.
The fan service stuff with Lyanna Mormont was annoying.
Expand ...

I agree with all of that.

I wanted her to be the one to do it, but the way they did it was cheesy. Dropping the dagger and catching it was a nice touch though.
 
.-.
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