Game of Thrones Season 8

[SubbaBub]

Overall, I think most of us are not frustrated with the ultimate conclusions, but how we got there. Yes, there has been foreshadowing throughout the series of Dany becoming the Mad Queen, but this episode it almost felt like she didn't care about the iron throne as much anymore and just wanted to kill everybody because they killed Missandei and because she could- what/who is she going to rule over now?. The whole Jaime, Euron, and Cersei parts were all dumb.

This is the Anakin Skywalker problem. How do you create a character that people will like but must eventually hate?

Step one is not to cast a hot actress and then parade her around naked for 6 years. Just saying...

Seriously, Emilia Clark was probably too likeable as an actress. Hayden Christiansen was not likeable as an actor. Opposites side of the same casting coin.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

FWIW, dany is not quite so likable in the books.

 

[SubbaBub]

FWIW all the spoilers were right. I read them bc I gave up on this crap show and I am not even really bummed that I did.

D and D are at fault because they had the opportunity from HBO to finish the series in 2 more full seasons but wanted to move on.

Every Euron scene was stupid. The entire Jaime arc was ruined with one scene. Neither of the much alluded to prophecies came true. Tyrion rats out Varys for treason and immediately committed treason. Varys is the master of spiders and straight up admits his collusion to John. So much stupid rushed writing.

I agree on Jaime. There has to be a scene missing explaining him going from Brianne's bed back to Cersei. It's a minor thing for me but it is an error.

 

[Lefty2one]

I agree on Jaime. There has to be a scene missing explaining him going from Brianne's bed back to Cersei. It's a minor thing for me but it is an error.

I thought it was the snarky comment from Sansa about Cersei's death.

 

[Walker11]

I agree on Jaime. There has to be a scene missing explaining him going from Brianne's bed back to Cersei. It's a minor thing for me but it is an error.

Jaime had this amazing redemption arc over 7 seasons and inexplicably goes back to Cersei, who he had deserted 4 episodes earlier.

Jaime knowingly assassinated his reputation by killing the Mad King in order to protect the people of KL. When Tyrion asks him what about all of the innocent who will be killed when Dany sacks the city: "I never cared about the innocent people."

Almost every arc has been ruined in the matter of 5 episodes. Every scene involving Bran has been rendered pointless when his pivotal moment is becoming bait. FYI, I guess we will never find out about his bizarre warging in the earlier battle.

 

[intlzncster]

Well I will say one thing, they mitigated my hatred of GRRM .

I'm the opposite. This makes me even more mad at George. If he's just bloody finished, we likely wouldn't have had so many plot holes. Never leave narrative to supremely funded Hollywood producers.

 

[intlzncster]

End of season 1 Dany burned the witch at the stake for crossing her. Been a long set up for this.

Burned all the dothraki khals too. She's always been ruthless.

 

[Lefty2one]

She's never murdered thousands of innocent people before. She killed people who crossed her or who were her enemies. Being ruthless towards one's enemies and mass slaughtering innocent people is the difference between an effective general and Hitler.

 

[ZooCougar]

I thought last night was logical. She has always had a tyrannical dark side. Being betrayed by literally everyone made her unmoored.

She always resorted to the dragons to solve problems.

I just thought Cersei got off too easy.

 

[Scalito]

Who knows what Ned Stark would have done if he had absolute power? The Hound tells Sansa in season 2 that "the world is built by killers" when he tries to convince him to flee with her during the Battle of Blackwater. The writers referenced that scene during the Hound/Sansa reunion in the last episode for a reason.

No genocidal murderer is a genocidal murderer until they have the power to be a genocidal murderer. Once the only weapons capable of taking Drogon out were destroyed, Danaerys' fun could begin. No one, not Cersei, and certainly not her own troops, were capable of stopping her.

The last 2+ seasons have been about Danaerys holding back her urge to destroy everything. She has been killing innocents since the beginning of her rise, and now that she had reached the peak, she was going to teach everyone a lesson.

The message from the writers from the start was that war is horrific and should not be glorified. The fans did anyway. That's on the fans, not the writers.

Great rationalization of a suck ass ending from a fan who wants to like the show and therefore cannot admit it is suck ass.

 

[Scalito]

This. Willful blindness.

Yes, there was previous poor writing that technically foreshadowed this like Varys stupid reaction to the Tarly executions. But one could write that off as forced and contrived until now. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[navery12]

Great rationalization of a suck ass ending from a fan who wants to like the show and therefore cannot admit it is suck ass.

Or people actually like the ending, shocking I know

 

[Scalito]

What it really comes down to is that Jon is responsible for the fall of Westeros. Any of his billion wrong decisions go another way and Westeros is probably saved.

I blame the gimp in a wheelchair. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut and everything works out fine. No dissension, no Mad Queen nonsense.

 

[Scalito]

Or people actually like the ending, shocking I know

It's inconceivable that sentient human beings believe there was an adequately developed character arc. The Excalibur's and Deepster's can point to the time Dany was as ruthless as Arya or Jon or Ned. Fine, whatever. There was a C, B and D in between A and Z. The rest of the alphabet was missing in that little "development" of Dany's character.

 

[Scalito]

The Valonqar Prophecy says: When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

George R.R. Martin says ‘Valonqar’ means ‘younger sibling’, which could be either her twin brother Jaime (born after her) or Tyrion, whose relationship with Cersei is already toxic.

As last night played out, Jamie (her younger sibling) had his hands "around her throat" as she was crying and the crumbling stone choked the life out of her. So, you could say, that's exactly what happened. And, Jamie's hand placement isn't a coincidence.

Holy excuses Batman!

 

[navery12]

It's inconceivable that sentient human beings believe there was an adequately developed character arc. The Excalibur's and Deepster's can point to the time Dany was as ruthless as Arya or Jon or Ned. Fine, whatever. There was a C, B and D in between A and Z. The rest of the alphabet was missing in that little "development" of Dany's character.

For Dany there was absolutely a character arc leading to yesterday's events. Did they rush the end parts a bit, yeah. But that doesn't mean the show is bad and can't be enjoyed

 

[Scalito]

For Dany there was absolutely a character arc leading to yesterday's events. Did they rush the end parts a bit, yeah. But that doesn't mean the show is bad and can't be enjoyed

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

 

[navery12]

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

I don't know what's so hard to understand, I'm not denying it's bad writing. It's just possible to still enjoy it.

But sure keep making strawman arguments and taking pot shots

 

[Scalito]

I don't know what's so hard to understand, I'm not denying it's bad writing. It's just possible to still enjoy it.

We don't disagree then. Why you hassling me?

 

[intlzncster]

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

While I don't disagree that the last two episodes were written poorly, I thought it was damn near inevitable that Dany became the tyrant queen. Surprised people are pushing back on that.

They could have executed it better right there at the end. But in the back of my head, wrecking Kings landing in some fashion made sense in general.

Maybe have the people back Jon because of heritage, and then have Dany snap. Idk

 

[Scalito]

While I don't disagree that the last two episodes were written poorly, I thought it was damn near inevitable that Dany became the tyrant queen. Surprised people are pushing back on that.

They could have executed it better right there at the end. But in the back of my head, wrecking Kings landing made sense in general.

Maybe have the people back Jon because of heritage, and then have Dany snap. Idk

We knew Annakin Skywalker would become Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the character arc offered up was believable or well done. And for the record? As crappy as the prequels were, Lucas provided a much more convincing attempt to transform a hero into the devil.

 

[intlzncster]

We knew Annakin Skywalker would become Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the character arc offered up was believable or well done. And for the record? As crappy as the prequels were, Lucas provided a much more convincing attempt to transform a hero into the devil.

What exactly were you looking for?

Dany burned the crap out of something every single season of the series. Her first instinct was always to burn something. She used ’honorable intentions' to justify her methods in her mind. even when the methods weren't always honorable. At some point burning people becomes de rigeur.

People held her back from it at every turn. To her credit, she did listen sometimes. Until she didn't. When she was held back or changed course from her first instinct,it often blew up in her face. Especially in westeros. She'd been betrayed in some form or fashion by a lot of people (Jon, Tyrion, varys,Jaime, jorah, cersei etc) I guess she had enough.

Throughout the series, I got the feel that she wanted to be good,to do good, but only if it didn't hinder her from taking the throne. People oftened questioned her character behind her back.

Westeros not being what she thought it was, and her no longer being the rightful heir (a problem compounded by the Jon denial) were probably her two biggest drivers in her full metamorphosis. The issue there is that the reveal occurred too late in the story.

The final 2 seasons should have been 10 episodes each and it could have been done more smoothly.

 

[Walker11]

What exactly were you looking for?

Dany burned the crap out of something every single season of the series. Her first instinct was always to burn something. She used ’honorable intentions' to justify her methods in her mind. even when the methods weren't always honorable. At some point burning people becomes de rigeur.

People held her back from it at every turn. To her credit, she did listen sometimes. Until she didn't. When she was held back or changed course from her first instinct,it often blew up in her face. Especially in westeros. She'd been betrayed in some form or fashion by a lot of people (Jon, Tyrion, varys,Jaime, jorah, cersei etc) I guess she had enough.

Throughout the series, I got the feel that she wanted to be good,to do good, but only if it didn't hinder her from taking the throne. People oftened questioned her character behind her back.

Westeros not being what she thought it was, and her no longer being the rightful heir (a problem compounded by the Jon denial) were probably her two biggest drivers in her full metamorphosis. The issue there is that the reveal occurred too late in the story.

The final 2 seasons should have been 10 episodes each and it could have been done more smoothly.

Dany was also devastated when her dragon killed an innocent kid. Bad and inconsistent writing.

 

[intlzncster]

Dany was devastated when her dragon killed an innocent kid. Bad and inconsistent writing.

She obviously changed for a number of of reasons mentioned ITT. "A Targaryen left alone in the world is a terrible thing".

 

[Walker11]

She obviously changed for a number of of reasons mentioned ITT. "A Targaryen left alone in the world is a terrible thing".

I agree with you that the show would have been better with 14 more episodes. Unfortunately, it is just 6.