Game of Thrones Season 8

[Scalito]

Ned Stark in Episode One: Chops the head off a Night's Watch man for fleeing south after watching a whitewalker kill his fellows and wildlings rise from the dead.

Ned Stark is a selfless hero.

Danaerys Targaryean. Spends 6 seasons off in the middle of nowhere, setting aside her personal goals to save slaves from bondage. In the seventh season she kills two rebels after they refuse a pardon and refuse to take the black. In the seventh and eighth season she also insists the Seven Kingdoms means seven kingdoms.

Daenerys Targyean is credibly considered a likely genocidal murderer.

No.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Ned Stark in Episode One: Chops the head off a Night's Watch man for fleeing south after watching a whitewalker kill his fellows and wildlings rise from the dead.

Ned Stark is a selfless hero.

Danaerys Targaryean. Spends 6 seasons off in the middle of nowhere, setting aside her personal goals to save slaves from bondage. In the seventh season she kills two rebels after they refuse a pardon and refuse to take the black. In the seventh and eighth season she also insists the Seven Kingdoms means seven kingdoms.

Daenerys Targyean is credibly considered a likely genocidal murderer.

No.

Who knows what Ned Stark would have done if he had absolute power? The Hound tells Sansa in season 2 that "the world is built by killers" when he tries to convince him to flee with her during the Battle of Blackwater. The writers referenced that scene during the Hound/Sansa reunion in the last episode for a reason.

No genocidal murderer is a genocidal murderer until they have the power to be a genocidal murderer. Once the only weapons capable of taking Drogon out were destroyed, Danaerys' fun could begin. No one, not Cersei, and certainly not her own troops, were capable of stopping her.

The last 2+ seasons have been about Danaerys holding back her urge to destroy everything. She has been killing innocents since the beginning of her rise, and now that she had reached the peak, she was going to teach everyone a lesson.

The message from the writers from the start was that war is horrific and should not be glorified. The fans did anyway. That's on the fans, not the writers.

 

[Walker11]

I am happy with the episode. After losing all hope in the show during the past 2 seasons I only hoped that it would go completely off the rails to piss everyone off. Mission accomplished.

Whose excited for the new Benioff + Weiss Star Wars Trilogy!

 

[Horatio]

How many ravens did Varys send before he got killed?

I’m thinking maybe his Ravens got intercepted and that’s why he got killed.

 

[Horatio]

I’m not buying the “Mad Queen “ tiltle for Dany. I just don’t see it and the writers just didn’t develop it properly. She did sacrifice herself, her advisers, army and dragon by standing in front of Cersei and offering her a chance to surrender. A “Mad Queen” doesn’t offer a surrender. Cersei rigged Kings Landing with that green explosive anyway so
If Dany gave them that second opportunity to
Peacefully surrender, she would’ve regretted it
When the bombs went off.

Edit: Also, people easily forget that Cersei
And Her people lied to Dany about showing up For the war against the Night King. Dany can’t allow that plus two opportunities to
Surrender. She would then be titled “Soft Queen”. How many breaks was Dany supposed to give out?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I’m thinking maybe his Ravens got intercepted and that’s why he got killed.

Tyrion narced him out.

 

[navery12]

You don't go from "breaking the wheel," lecturing your Queen of Thorne ally about not being here to murder, sacrificing everything to fight the dead to . . . burning an entire city of people because the bad queen of 8 seasons killed your best friend.



This is like saying we should have credibly accepted Jon flying on Drogon and burning an entire city because he hung the mutineers who rebelled against his rule as Lord Commander. Maybe Varys and the show creators think it's different to burn than hang people, but that just makes them stupid and the character development thoughtless.

You can not like the direction they went with making her go mad, but to say they didn't foreshadow this is 100% false

 

[Horatio]

Tyrion narced him out.

After he figured out that they found out.
Varys was trying to poison the lady.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

They are all Killers. Sansa lied to protect the murderer of her aunt, and the eventually had him executed. She had her ex eaten by his dogs. Jon Snow has executed members of the Night Watch in addition to killing dozens in battle. Arya has a body count of about 100. And those are the good guys, at least for now.

Fan boys like and August wanted a happy ending where Jon and Danaerys get married and have babies and Westeros lives happily ever after. This isn't that kind of story.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

My quick thoughts:

At least they returned to GOT and had some bad things happening.

Way better than the last two episodes.

The Clegane duel was fun, but once you stick a dagger through someones head, they pretty much have to die. Anyway, they both die - good enough.

Arya running through the streets like a scared school child, well that's not in her character. But she made it out - good enough.

Cerci getting killed by a Red Keep collapse seems so anti climatic. Someone significant should have killed her. (and to the one who thinks she still alive - hahahahaha - the place collapsed around her and Jamie - they're dead [I hope I don't have to regret that])

Other than that, Dany bad, John good. Who wins?

Edit
One more thought - WTF was the dragon so much more effective vs the arrows compared to the last episode. Don't tell me Dany got more knowledge.... Anyone could figure out how to come from behind or the side. That's a bad throw away for the writers.

I can live with Drogon being much more effective in this episode. Euron got the jump on Rhaegal. Drogon has 3 dimensions to move in, while the scorpions are fixed structures. Advantage: Drogon.

What was Arya supposed to do against fire and collapsing buildings? The point of that scene was showing how the killer that took out the Night King was helpless in the chaos of this war.

 

[SubbaBub]

Not sure what show you've been watching. Dany has been an entitiled narcissist from episode one. Wanted to be a queen, wanted to see her family back in power despite having no idea what it means to be a leader.

You know who else started that way but learned and grew into a leader? Sansa.

Dany has been a maniacal tyrant in waiting surrounded by pandering sycophants for years. She only looked better in comparision to Hillary, er..Cersei.

I get why can't see it.

 

[August_West]

USA today Nailed it.

Sorry dopes.

'Game of Thrones' recap: The series just burned itself to the ground

 

[uconn_jack]

You don't go from "breaking the wheel," lecturing your Queen of Thorne ally about not being here to murder, sacrificing everything to fight the dead to . . . burning an entire city of people because the bad queen of 8 seasons killed your best friend.



This is like saying we should have credibly accepted Jon flying on Drogon and burning an entire city because he hung the mutineers who rebelled against his rule as Lord Commander. Maybe Varys and the show creators think it's different to burn than hang people, but that just makes them stupid and the character development thoughtless.

The difference is throughout the series, Dany has had to be talked down from being too ruthless and impulsive by her various advisers (and they weren't always 100% sucessful). Whereas Jon has had to be talked into being tougher on people.

Now Dany is essentially alone and has nobody she trusts, nobody that can talk her away from her worst impulses. In her eyes, Varys betrayed her, Tyrion is incompetent, and Jon wants the iron throne (or is at least a threat to it because as she said, everyone loves him). The only one that may have been able to keep her in control was Jorah, and he's dead.

So now that she is untethered, and realizes she will never be trusted or loved on the throne (especially with Jon and the knowledge of his lineage out there), she made a calculated (not just "mad") decision to rule with fear instead of love, as she said in this episode.

You can argue that the writing has not been as good the last couple seasons, but I think they have done plenty to set up this arc throughout the series, and it's not without logic or evidence.

 

[JCSuperstar]

She had her ex eaten by his dogs.

"her ex" lolololololo

 

[August_West]

Ned Stark in Episode One: Chops the head off a Night's Watch man for fleeing south after watching a whitewalker kill his fellows and wildlings rise from the dead.

Ned Stark is a selfless hero.

Danaerys Targaryean. Spends 6 seasons off in the middle of nowhere, setting aside her personal goals to save slaves from bondage. In the seventh season she kills two rebels after they refuse a pardon and refuse to take the black. In the seventh and eighth season she also insists the Seven Kingdoms means seven kingdoms.

Daenerys Targyean is credibly considered a likely genocidal murderer.

No.

Nailed it.

In an alternate timeline, George R.R. Martin would have finished writing "A Song of Ice and Fire" before it was ever adapted to series. His seventh and final book would have been hundreds of pages that offered copious explanation for its hero's descent into madness and cruelty. And that long, complex and thoughtful book would be adapted into far more than six episodes of television.
The problem with Dany going full Mad Queen isn't that she used to be a hero or that the show never foreshadowed it. There have been seeds, all the way back to Season 1 when she burned Mirri Maz Duur alive as vengeance for Khal Drogo's death. She has long been vain, ruthless and completely convinced of her own brilliance.
But the show spent far more time making Dany a hero, if a rather boring one. Making her Mad Queen Dany now is rushed, unearned and emotionless.
In the moment, it's also not clear what made her snap. Missandei? Rhaegal? Not getting her way? Being bored because she won the battle too quickly? Why did she destroy the whole city instead of going straight to Cersei? Where does she expect to live after destroying the castle her ancestors built?
More pressingly, what does Dany's turn even say about the show, thematically? That we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of our families? Dany's "madness" or whatever we want to call it is nothing like Aerys, who heard voices and acted out of fear and paranoia. Viserys was cruel but also petty and weak. Rhaegar wasn't mad or vicious at all. Hewas short-sighted but noble. Dany is just lamely sadistic.

 

[SubbaBub]

You guys probably shouldn't watch Saving Private Ryan either. I mean the entire D-Day invasion is over in 20 minutes.

 

[August_West]

You guys probably shouldn't watch Saving Private Ryan either. I mean the entire D-Day invasion is over in 20 minutes.

You really comparing a masterpiece of a movie to this hot mess limp to the finish?

 

[Excalibur]

You can not like the direction they went with making her go mad, but to say they didn't foreshadow this is 100% false

This. Willful blindness.

 

[CTMike]

What it really comes down to is that Jon is responsible for the fall of Westeros. Any of his billion wrong decisions go another way and Westeros is probably saved.

 

[jdb50]

End of season 1 Dany burned the witch at the stake for crossing her. Been a long set up for this.

 

[Excalibur]

What it really comes down to is that Jon is responsible for the fall of Westeros. Any of his billion wrong decisions go another way and Westeros is probably saved.

Actually it's Ned. If he doesn't talk Robert out of killing Daenerys in season 1 the city is saved. The Starks are responsible for all that is bad in the world . . .

 

[Deepster]

The hatred for the Mad Queen aspect of last night is laughable.

She sat there smiling when Drogo poured molten gold on her brother's head.
She has repeated burned people alive for transgressions, even when advised against it.
She crucified the Great Masters outside Slavers Bay.

Sure, she "said" all the right things about what kind of liberating leader she wanted to be....then:

Lost 2 of her 3 dragons
Lost a huge chunk of her Unsullied and Dothraki supporting the Battle of Winterfell
Got spurned twice by Jon Snow
Lost Missandei and Jorah
Had Varys betray her and had Tyrian repeatedly screwing up every decision in front of him.

At the end of the day, becoming Queen is all she wanted and when she couldn't get it the optimal way (and she even says this last night) she resorted to fear and torched them all as a Targ would. How can you say it wasn't foreshadowed or done right?

 

[Rico444]

Nailed it.

Meh. They definitely could've spent more time making this transformation happen a bit more subtle, but it definitely makes sense to me. Dany has basically been a hothead that would've gone this route much earlier in the series had things not gone her way. What she's always wanted more than anything is to be a ruler that is admired and loved by her people. She always had that: Every city she liberated embraced her whole-heartedly (or, in the case of Mereen, the small faction that didn't she wiped off the face of the earth). Now that she's in a situation where the people clearly weren't going to love her, AND there was another heir to the throne that they could get behind? She knew that she wasn't going to be admired as a ruler, and as she stated earlier in the episode, there are only two ways to rule: through love, or fear. Burning the city down ensures that fear would spread not only through the survivors in King's Landing, but through all seven kingdoms.

TLDR: Dany has always got what she's wanted through force, and when that didn't work here in Westeros she had two choices: cede the throne to Jon, or make herself a feared conqueror that nobody would dare challenge. Since her life's goal has been to sit on the Iron Throne, and she got this close before it all started to crumble, it doesn't surprise me that she chose option number two.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like this choice by the writers. Jaime running back to Cersei is the dumb decision of the episode by the writers.

 

[Excalibur]

Meh. They definitely could've spent more time making this transformation happen a bit more subtle, but it definitely makes sense to me. Dany has basically been a hothead that would've gone this route much earlier in the series had things not gone her way. What she's always wanted more than anything is to be a ruler that is admired and loved by her people. She always had that: Every city she liberated embraced her whole-heartedly (or, in the case of Mereen, the small faction that didn't she wiped off the face of the earth). Now that she's in a situation where the people clearly weren't going to love her, AND there was another heir to the throne that they could get behind? She knew that she wasn't going to be admired as a ruler, and as she stated earlier in the episode, there are only two ways to rule: through love, or fear. Burning the city down ensures that fear would spread not only through the survivors in King's Landing, but through all seven kingdoms.

TLDR: Dany has always got what she's wanted through force, and when that didn't work here in Westeros she had two choices: cede the throne to Jon, or make herself a feared conqueror that nobody would dare challenge. Since her life's goal has been to sit on the Iron Throne, and she got this close before it all started to crumble, it doesn't surprise me that she chose option number two.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like this choice by the writers. Jaime running back to Cersei is the dumb decision of the episode by the writers.

There's a lot to criticize -- the sudden uselessness of the scorpions, the stupid Euron/Jamie fight, the completely unsatisfying way in which Cersei dies, the rushed demise of Varys (though I've come to terms with the rushing of the plot overall), Tyrion's ineptness and general demise as a character, and so on. Daenerys going mad did not come out of left field.

 

[SubbaBub]

You really comparing a masterpiece of a movie to this hot mess limp to the finish?

I'm curious as to what people expected? A season long battle of Winterfell? A full accounting of the campaign south?

Everyone complained about Dany loitering in Essos. Are they rushing, sure but what was really left to tell?

Every major battle was one episode. The long night has two run up eps and one aftermath. The battle of King's landing didn't need more. It actually needed less. Less Euron. less Arya dodging debris. But otherwise it delivered.

Tell me what's missing.