Game of Thrones Season 8

[intlzncster]

Well I will say one thing, they mitigated my hatred of GRRM .

I'm the opposite. This makes me even more mad at George. If he's just bloody finished, we likely wouldn't have had so many plot holes. Never leave narrative to supremely funded Hollywood producers.

 

[intlzncster]

End of season 1 Dany burned the witch at the stake for crossing her. Been a long set up for this.

Burned all the dothraki khals too. She's always been ruthless.

 

[Lefty2one]

She's never murdered thousands of innocent people before. She killed people who crossed her or who were her enemies. Being ruthless towards one's enemies and mass slaughtering innocent people is the difference between an effective general and Hitler.

 

[ZooCougar]

I thought last night was logical. She has always had a tyrannical dark side. Being betrayed by literally everyone made her unmoored.

She always resorted to the dragons to solve problems.

I just thought Cersei got off too easy.

 

[Scalito]

Who knows what Ned Stark would have done if he had absolute power? The Hound tells Sansa in season 2 that "the world is built by killers" when he tries to convince him to flee with her during the Battle of Blackwater. The writers referenced that scene during the Hound/Sansa reunion in the last episode for a reason.

No genocidal murderer is a genocidal murderer until they have the power to be a genocidal murderer. Once the only weapons capable of taking Drogon out were destroyed, Danaerys' fun could begin. No one, not Cersei, and certainly not her own troops, were capable of stopping her.

The last 2+ seasons have been about Danaerys holding back her urge to destroy everything. She has been killing innocents since the beginning of her rise, and now that she had reached the peak, she was going to teach everyone a lesson.

The message from the writers from the start was that war is horrific and should not be glorified. The fans did anyway. That's on the fans, not the writers.

Great rationalization of a suck ass ending from a fan who wants to like the show and therefore cannot admit it is suck ass.

 

[Scalito]

This. Willful blindness.

Yes, there was previous poor writing that technically foreshadowed this like Varys stupid reaction to the Tarly executions. But one could write that off as forced and contrived until now. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[navery12]

Great rationalization of a suck ass ending from a fan who wants to like the show and therefore cannot admit it is suck ass.

Or people actually like the ending, shocking I know

 

[Scalito]

What it really comes down to is that Jon is responsible for the fall of Westeros. Any of his billion wrong decisions go another way and Westeros is probably saved.

I blame the gimp in a wheelchair. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut and everything works out fine. No dissension, no Mad Queen nonsense.

 

[Scalito]

Or people actually like the ending, shocking I know

It's inconceivable that sentient human beings believe there was an adequately developed character arc. The Excalibur's and Deepster's can point to the time Dany was as ruthless as Arya or Jon or Ned. Fine, whatever. There was a C, B and D in between A and Z. The rest of the alphabet was missing in that little "development" of Dany's character.

 

[Scalito]

The Valonqar Prophecy says: When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

George R.R. Martin says ‘Valonqar’ means ‘younger sibling’, which could be either her twin brother Jaime (born after her) or Tyrion, whose relationship with Cersei is already toxic.

As last night played out, Jamie (her younger sibling) had his hands "around her throat" as she was crying and the crumbling stone choked the life out of her. So, you could say, that's exactly what happened. And, Jamie's hand placement isn't a coincidence.

Holy excuses Batman!

 

[navery12]

It's inconceivable that sentient human beings believe there was an adequately developed character arc. The Excalibur's and Deepster's can point to the time Dany was as ruthless as Arya or Jon or Ned. Fine, whatever. There was a C, B and D in between A and Z. The rest of the alphabet was missing in that little "development" of Dany's character.

For Dany there was absolutely a character arc leading to yesterday's events. Did they rush the end parts a bit, yeah. But that doesn't mean the show is bad and can't be enjoyed

 

[Scalito]

For Dany there was absolutely a character arc leading to yesterday's events. Did they rush the end parts a bit, yeah. But that doesn't mean the show is bad and can't be enjoyed

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

 

[navery12]

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

I don't know what's so hard to understand, I'm not denying it's bad writing. It's just possible to still enjoy it.

But sure keep making strawman arguments and taking pot shots

 

[Scalito]

I don't know what's so hard to understand, I'm not denying it's bad writing. It's just possible to still enjoy it.

We don't disagree then. Why you hassling me?

 

[intlzncster]

You sound like the Star Wars fans who defended Phantom Menace and Jar Jar Binks. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney took everything over. This has the distinct feeling of The Last Jedi.

Bad writing, fan boys unwilling to admit it.

While I don't disagree that the last two episodes were written poorly, I thought it was damn near inevitable that Dany became the tyrant queen. Surprised people are pushing back on that.

They could have executed it better right there at the end. But in the back of my head, wrecking Kings landing in some fashion made sense in general.

Maybe have the people back Jon because of heritage, and then have Dany snap. Idk

 

[Scalito]

While I don't disagree that the last two episodes were written poorly, I thought it was damn near inevitable that Dany became the tyrant queen. Surprised people are pushing back on that.

They could have executed it better right there at the end. But in the back of my head, wrecking Kings landing made sense in general.

Maybe have the people back Jon because of heritage, and then have Dany snap. Idk

We knew Annakin Skywalker would become Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the character arc offered up was believable or well done. And for the record? As crappy as the prequels were, Lucas provided a much more convincing attempt to transform a hero into the devil.

 

[intlzncster]

We knew Annakin Skywalker would become Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the character arc offered up was believable or well done. And for the record? As crappy as the prequels were, Lucas provided a much more convincing attempt to transform a hero into the devil.

What exactly were you looking for?

Dany burned the crap out of something every single season of the series. Her first instinct was always to burn something. She used ’honorable intentions' to justify her methods in her mind. even when the methods weren't always honorable. At some point burning people becomes de rigeur.

People held her back from it at every turn. To her credit, she did listen sometimes. Until she didn't. When she was held back or changed course from her first instinct,it often blew up in her face. Especially in westeros. She'd been betrayed in some form or fashion by a lot of people (Jon, Tyrion, varys,Jaime, jorah, cersei etc) I guess she had enough.

Throughout the series, I got the feel that she wanted to be good,to do good, but only if it didn't hinder her from taking the throne. People oftened questioned her character behind her back.

Westeros not being what she thought it was, and her no longer being the rightful heir (a problem compounded by the Jon denial) were probably her two biggest drivers in her full metamorphosis. The issue there is that the reveal occurred too late in the story.

The final 2 seasons should have been 10 episodes each and it could have been done more smoothly.

 

[Walker11]

What exactly were you looking for?

Dany burned the crap out of something every single season of the series. Her first instinct was always to burn something. She used ’honorable intentions' to justify her methods in her mind. even when the methods weren't always honorable. At some point burning people becomes de rigeur.

People held her back from it at every turn. To her credit, she did listen sometimes. Until she didn't. When she was held back or changed course from her first instinct,it often blew up in her face. Especially in westeros. She'd been betrayed in some form or fashion by a lot of people (Jon, Tyrion, varys,Jaime, jorah, cersei etc) I guess she had enough.

Throughout the series, I got the feel that she wanted to be good,to do good, but only if it didn't hinder her from taking the throne. People oftened questioned her character behind her back.

Westeros not being what she thought it was, and her no longer being the rightful heir (a problem compounded by the Jon denial) were probably her two biggest drivers in her full metamorphosis. The issue there is that the reveal occurred too late in the story.

The final 2 seasons should have been 10 episodes each and it could have been done more smoothly.

Dany was also devastated when her dragon killed an innocent kid. Bad and inconsistent writing.

 

[intlzncster]

Dany was devastated when her dragon killed an innocent kid. Bad and inconsistent writing.

She obviously changed for a number of of reasons mentioned ITT. "A Targaryen left alone in the world is a terrible thing".

 

[Walker11]

She obviously changed for a number of of reasons mentioned ITT. "A Targaryen left alone in the world is a terrible thing".

I agree with you that the show would have been better with 14 more episodes. Unfortunately, it is just 6.

 

[intlzncster]

For the final episode, I want to see Dany try to drakarys Jon and Drogon being like, "nah".

 

[Fishy]

Edit
One more thought - WTF was the dragon so much more effective vs the arrows compared to the last episode. Don't tell me Dany got more knowledge.... Anyone could figure out how to come from behind or the side. That's a bad throw away for the writers.

She was unaware of the arrows last week.

This week, she came down with the sun behind her to burn up the boats and then she came in too low for the arrows when she went for the walls.

Apologize to the writers, grandpa.

 

[jleves]

She was unaware of the arrows last week.

This week, she came down with the sun behind her to burn up the boats and then she came in too low for the arrows when she went for the walls.

Apologize to the writers, grandpa.

Surprised by arrows with total air supremacy and vision. OK. That would be like a B2 bomber being surprised by an ISIS rebel with a shoulder mounted surface to air missile and getting shot down.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Jaime had this amazing redemption arc over 7 seasons and inexplicably goes back to Cersei, who he had deserted 4 episodes earlier.

Jaime knowingly assassinated his reputation by killing the Mad King in order to protect the people of KL. When Tyrion asks him what about all of the innocent who will be killed when Dany sacks the city: "I never cared about the innocent people."

Almost every arc has been ruined in the matter of 5 episodes. Every scene involving Bran has been rendered pointless when his pivotal moment is becoming bait. FYI, I guess we will never find out about his bizarre warging in the earlier battle.

You may not have made the same choices as the writers if it was up to you, but there is nothing wrong with the choices the writers made. Jaime is an idiot, and has constantly made bad choices. His redemption arc was not a straight line, as evidenced by his recapture of Riverrun.

Bran seems to have fizzled, although he was needed for R+L=J so he did serve an important purpose.

I think the show has done a great job this season wrapping up the characters with the exception of no motivation for the Night King. That is a big freaking hole.

 

[uconn_jack]

For the final episode, I want to see Dany try to drakarys Jon and Drogon being like, "nah".

Or for Jon to walk out of the fire unscathed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I’m not buying the “Mad Queen “ tiltle for Dany. I just don’t see it and the writers just didn’t develop it properly. She did sacrifice herself, her advisers, army and dragon by standing in front of Cersei and offering her a chance to surrender. A “Mad Queen” doesn’t offer a surrender. Cersei rigged Kings Landing with that green explosive anyway so
If Dany gave them that second opportunity to
Peacefully surrender, she would’ve regretted it
When the bombs went off.

Edit: Also, people easily forget that Cersei
And Her people lied to Dany about showing up For the war against the Night King. Dany can’t allow that plus two opportunities to
Surrender. She would then be titled “Soft Queen”. How many breaks was Dany supposed to give out?

Really? She’s been a complete psycho since season 6. It’s all about her and her perceived birthright. It wasn’t before then, it was about the people. Then it became “my throne”, “my kingdoms”, “bend the knee”. She’s been off her rocker for awhile now. That said, this still didn’t feel quite right. The extent of it was wrong.

Varys knew and Jon confirmed it. Nobody who wants to rule can be a good ruler.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The best part of the episode was Arya at the end, looking at the remains of the woman who saved her, and her child. A girl has a list. There’s one name on it now. Jon can’t do it. Arya Stark, “Queenslayer”.

 

[ZooCougar]

Dany is now the proverbial psycho ditched ex girlfriend.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Dany is now the proverbial psycho ditched ex girlfriend.

You can take "proverbial" out of that description.

One thing that hasn't been discussed was the scene with the Hound and Arya. I thought the Hound's goodbye to Arya was the right ending for those two. Originally, I thought Arya and the Hound would go after the Mountain and Cersei together, but the Hound sending her away was the right move. If she wanted to be anything other than the Hound, she needed to leave the Red Keep. The Hound and Arya's relationship is one of the more interesting in the entire series, and for all his awfulness and the fact that she was his hostage, he saved her life on multiple occasions, taught her a lot, and truly cared for her almost as a daughter. While a showdown with the Hound and Arya vs. the Mountain may have been fun to watch, it would have been the wrong outcome from a character development perspective. The Hound's story was at an end, and it was time for him to die. Arya still had a life to live.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Do you remember the scene at the magic house in Qarth, when Danaerys has a vision of what looks like a snowy throne room? It turns out that was ash. The writers have been planning this ending for Danaerys since at least season 2. I think of a new foreshadowing scene from a prior season every few hours. At the end of Season 1, Katlyn warning Robb that if they lose they will all die, two episodes after Cersei told Ned that in the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Cersei's warning to Sansa about what would happen if the city fell to Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater. The good and bad guys have always been blurred in this show, which is what makes it great.

This was always how it was going to end. They basically drew us a map, and we all just missed it.

I think it is pretty cool.